Calories, fat, and sugar and CICO debate with hubby

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  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
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    rosebette wrote: »
    Wouldn't calories also be important, though? If someone is overweight and diabetic, wouldn't consuming 160 worth of salad dressing be problematic unless it fills the person up so much he/she wouldn't be consuming 160 calories of something else?

    If he has the calories in his calorie budget, there is nothing problematic about it.
  • rosebette
    rosebette Posts: 1,659 Member
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    Since he doesn't track his food, I wouldn't know if it's "in his budget." I know he eats pretty big portions of everything that's served. I'm interested in that Bernstein book. Can anyone send me a link?
  • umayster
    umayster Posts: 651 Member
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    RockstarWilson wrote: »
    And when they say "fat cancels out sugar," they are talking about macro percentages. In full-fat dairy ice cream, more than 50% of the calories come from fat. So, by eating some ice cream, those people are staying within their macro percentages. If the carbs are mixed with a greater amount of fat per gram, it will take the body more time to get to the sugar, because it has to metabolize the fat too. Therefore, the conversion of carbs into glucose will happen at a lesser rate than if they, say, ate a bowl of fruit. The sugars in fruit are naked and therefore will get metabolized faster than will the sugars in the ice cream.

    That is my understanding of it. I could be wrong. If I am wrong, please explain why, but I think that is what your fellow diabetics mean when they say "fat cancels out carbs/sugars."

    I think that is a good simple explanation. Sugar eaten alone has a different affect on glucose/insulin than sugar combined with fat or protein.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
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    Mixed meal responses are different to pure glucose response, but not massively :- F3.large.jpg
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    rosebette wrote: »
    Since he doesn't track his food, I wouldn't know if it's "in his budget." I know he eats pretty big portions of everything that's served. I'm interested in that Bernstein book. Can anyone send me a link?

    http://www.diabetes-book.com/

    http://forum.diabetes-book.com/readit/chapter_10.pdf
  • rosebette
    rosebette Posts: 1,659 Member
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    Thanks for sending it. Wow, a lot of things are no-nos, including all fruits and even some veggies.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
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    Overnight I thought of something else. Tell hubby an after-dinner walk will really help keep those blood numbers in line!
  • rosebette
    rosebette Posts: 1,659 Member
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    jgnatca wrote: »
    Overnight I thought of something else. Tell hubby an after-dinner walk will really help keep those blood numbers in line!

    I've been fighting that battle for a long time! He plays and coaches baseball, so in spring/summer, he loses 18-20 lbs., which he gains back in fall when he becomes sedentary again. He has a gym where he works, but won't get up early enough to use it and then ends up working too late and not going. We have dinner late because he works so late, so it's too dark for a walk.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
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    You both would be amazed at the improved sugar numbers with a little exercise after a meal. You might have to get creative. Maybe Just Dance with a Nintendo wii.
  • Pinnacle_IAO
    Pinnacle_IAO Posts: 608 Member
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    Our argument last night was over me whistling while using the bathroom.
    We're simple people.... :p
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    rosebette wrote: »
    Thanks for sending it. Wow, a lot of things are no-nos, including all fruits and even some veggies.

    Bernstein starts people off strictly and then they slowly start adding in higher sugar fruits. In the beginning, berries are acceptable but don't splurge.

    Many diabetics are not as low carb as Bernstein's plan - he is at the far end, but I like his plan because he goes for normal blood glucose levels as opposed to just "better" blood glucose.
  • gaelicstorm26
    gaelicstorm26 Posts: 589 Member
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    I'm a Type II...here is my "weigh in":

    -Many diabetics have the most trouble processing extra carbs early in the day. Breakfast can be a hard meal. The ONLY fruits I will eat at breakfast are berries because they aren't super high in sugar. Anything over 20-25 g of carbs at breakfast is a disaster for my blood sugar.
    -For the fat...eating things that are high in fat and in carbs are processed more slowly, thusly preventing some of those huge spikes in blood sugar. I actually find that my blood sugar at two hours is significantly lower after ice cream than after fruit (with the exception of berries). The fat doesn't "cancel out" the sugar. That's silly. It just changes the digestive process.
    -Exercise after dinner...YES YES and HELL YES! Some meals must be paired with walk. Sometimes I want extra carbs at dinner because it's my FAVORITE pasta meal. If calories allow, I'll have it, and then I'll take a walk. It helps to use up that extra glucose. I frequently have two-hour readings in the 80s if I do exercise after dinner, regardless of how many carbs I eat.
    -Lastly, all diabetics are different. Some of us (like me) can eat pasta. Some find that pasta sends their blood sugar sky high. Many of us follow a low-carb, high-fat diet because high protein can be tough on the kidneys, a problem that people already at risk for kidney problems don't need.

    I would have chosen the dressing you were advocating for because I like Italian better. I hate creamy dressings. I like oil and vinegar the best though.
  • LKArgh
    LKArgh Posts: 5,179 Member
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    rosebette wrote: »
    Since he doesn't track his food, I wouldn't know if it's "in his budget." I know he eats pretty big portions of everything that's served. I'm interested in that Bernstein book. Can anyone send me a link?

    Big portions could also mean more carbs per meal than he should be eating, so yes, it is a concern for several reasons. Ideally, he should be monitoring carbs, losing weight and trying to be physically active, regardless of weight loss goals. But how you get him to do these things, I have no idea. In the end, I suspect you will end up worrying more and more about what he should be doing, and he will just do whatever he likes anyway. If you find a trick to convince him to make lifestyle changes, definitely send me a message, I would be interested on how I can get my husband to start moving a bit :)
  • rosebette
    rosebette Posts: 1,659 Member
    edited August 2015
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    My own efforts have been around controlling what we eat at home. He does eat eggs most mornings but will occasionally have cereal if his sugar tests well that morning. He may gravitate to a lower carb cereal like Cheerios (surprisingly one of the better ones, unlike my favorite Raisin Bran, which is double the carbs), but he just fills the bowl and adds fruit. He doesn't measure anything. I enjoy yogurt at breakfast, but he finds it gross. Bagels are a thing of the past. I have higher starch dinners such as pasta or Mexican only if he's not home and I'm feeding my two sons. We've switched from white rice to brown, and only limited quantities of that and rarely eat potatoes. I haven't bought a loaf of white bread in years and try to get away with the lower cal/carb breads, but the only one he'll tolerate is Fiber One because the other brands fall apart if you make a sandwich to stowe rather than eat right away. I know he eats what he wants when he eats out at business meetings or with baseball buddies, so I can't control that. As many of you say, it has to come from him. If he eats properly for a few weeks, he can lose weight at an amazing rate (which I'm envious of), but can put it on just as quickly once he becomes sedentary again.
  • EmmaFitzwilliam
    EmmaFitzwilliam Posts: 482 Member
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    Having been at the receiving end of my ex's attempts to "food cop" me for 10 years, I have to say that it's really hard to have success with trying to manage somebody else's choices (and the attempt to do so may (and often does) backfire). I acknowledge that you have a stake in his health, but all you can do is tell him you love him and that you are worried about his health. Then drop it, unless he asks you for input. Be there if he asks your opinion, inform yourself about the basics of managing diabetes, and let his choices be his choices. If he feels comfortable partnering with you and involving you in his choices, fantastic. If not, do your best to let him be the boss of his own choices, and their consequences.

  • ldrosophila
    ldrosophila Posts: 7,512 Member
    edited August 2015
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    I think the best option in this case would been to only use 1tbsp of the high fat dressing and supplement it with a non calorie dressing like vinegar or lemon juice if his salad is too dry. The lower calorie usually have added sugars, and aren't as flavorful. (I see your dressing was relatively low in sugar) Which means he'll be less inclined to eat the salad which can help to blunt sugar spikes via fiber digestion.

    I know you are controlling because you love him and want to see him live a long quality filled life. I hope he was able to have his choice of dressing just in smaller portions.
  • rosebette
    rosebette Posts: 1,659 Member
    edited August 2015
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    ldrosophila wrote: »
    I think the best option in this case would been to only use 1tbsp of the high fat dressing and supplement it with a non calorie dressing like vinegar or lemon juice. The lower calorie usually have added sugars, and aren't as flavorful. Which means he'll be less inclined to eat the salad which can help to blunt sugar spikes via fiber digestion.

    I know you are controlling because you love him and want to see him live a long quality filled life. I hope he was able to have his choice of dressing just in smaller portions.

    He got to eat his dressing, so I'm not that controlling, and I'm the one who brought it home because it was buy one get one free and it's a high-end brand compared to Kraft and Ken's, etc.. I didn't realize how calorie-dense it was until I put it on the table. My only "control" is that I do the grocery shopping and bring only certain things into the house and cook certain things. If people want something else, they have to eat it somewhere else or bring it home themselves. My husband never does the grocery shopping and basically eats whatever I buy. My oldest son, however, has a bad soda habit and brings soda home, and for a period worked in a campus bookstore that sold snacks and would bring all the expired stuff home. That made for some poor eating choices available to everyone. He doesn't work there now, but may start up again in the fall.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
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    rosebette wrote: »
    My own efforts have been around controlling what we eat at home. He does eat eggs most mornings but will occasionally have cereal if his sugar tests well that morning. He may gravitate to a lower carb cereal like Cheerios (surprisingly one of the better ones, unlike my favorite Raisin Bran, which is double the carbs), but he just fills the bowl and adds fruit. He doesn't measure anything. I enjoy yogurt at breakfast, but he finds it gross. Bagels are a thing of the past. I have higher starch dinners such as pasta or Mexican only if he's not home and I'm feeding my two sons. We've switched from white rice to brown, and only limited quantities of that and rarely eat potatoes. I haven't bought a loaf of white bread in years and try to get away with the lower cal/carb breads, but the only one he'll tolerate is Fiber One because the other brands fall apart if you make a sandwich to stowe rather than eat right away. I know he eats what he wants when he eats out at business meetings or with baseball buddies, so I can't control that. As many of you say, it has to come from him. If he eats properly for a few weeks, he can lose weight at an amazing rate (which I'm envious of), but can put it on just as quickly once he becomes sedentary again.

    It sounds to me like you have a lot of it in hand.

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