Squats--Quantity vs. weights?
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yes- it matters quiet a bit.nakedraygun wrote: »The prevailing wisdom on rep ranges is as follows:
1-5: Strength
6-12: Hypertrophy
12+ : Muscle endurance
Which to use?“The continuum in figure 2.2 ranges in maximal repetitions from 1 to 25, as does the original, but adds the adaptation of muscle hypertrophy. On the lower end of the continuum, strength gains are more pronounced, particularly when using maximal repetitions in the range of 1 to 6, or about 80 to 100 percent of 1RM (O’Shea 1966; Weiss, Coney, and Clark 1999). Enhanced muscle hypertrophy is most notable when training with repetition maximums in the 8 to 12 range, which corresponds to about 70 to 80 percent 1RM (Kraemer, Fleck, and Evans 1996). And muscular endurance benefits occur when repetition maximums of 12 and above, or 70 percent of 1RM and below, are used (Stone and Coulter 1994). New evidence also suggests that these higher rep ranges are also effective for muscle hypertrophy as long as sets are taken to muscle failure (Burd 2010; Burd 2011; Mitchell 2012). These varied muscle adaptations underscore the importance of periodization for producing the most desirable changes in a muscle, whether the person’s goal is increasing muscle endurance or increasing maximal strength. This is because each adaptation is related to the others. “For example, increasing both maximal strength and muscle endurance beneficially affects muscle hypertrophy. So while the person should spend the majority of training time using the repetition range that best fits his or her major goals, the periodic cycling of other intensities will enhance this goal.”
Excerpt From: Jim Stoppani. “Jim Stoppani's Encyclopedia of Muscle & Strength, 2E.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/WboF3.l "
In my training I employ each strategy, since I want both strength and hypertrophy gains. I will squat at lower reps to build strength (5/3/1 currently) and then as an assessory, front squat (or barbell split squat) at lower percentage of my max for higher reps to encourage muscle (4x8 or 5x10) growth. Then I will add a finisher (keeping with quads) like dumbbell goblet squats (or box step-ups or box jumps), and hit the 12+ range for a few sets.
I'm pretty gassed after that.
Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread too much, but does your intake impact any of that? i.e. do you keep the hypertrophy work (volume) while you are cutting, assuming you cut? I've often wondered if there was any meaningful benefit to doing growth volume while eating at cut intake levels.
The lay out of those is mostly a loose guideline- its' an easy way to see a very very basic lay out of what could be happening- or a path to get you where you want.
When I write this out I caveat it with "as your diet dictates" or something in such phrasing.0 -
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nakedraygun wrote: »The prevailing wisdom on rep ranges is as follows:
1-5: Strength
6-12: Hypertrophy
12+ : Muscle endurance
Which to use?“The continuum in figure 2.2 ranges in maximal repetitions from 1 to 25, as does the original, but adds the adaptation of muscle hypertrophy. On the lower end of the continuum, strength gains are more pronounced, particularly when using maximal repetitions in the range of 1 to 6, or about 80 to 100 percent of 1RM (O’Shea 1966; Weiss, Coney, and Clark 1999). Enhanced muscle hypertrophy is most notable when training with repetition maximums in the 8 to 12 range, which corresponds to about 70 to 80 percent 1RM (Kraemer, Fleck, and Evans 1996). And muscular endurance benefits occur when repetition maximums of 12 and above, or 70 percent of 1RM and below, are used (Stone and Coulter 1994). New evidence also suggests that these higher rep ranges are also effective for muscle hypertrophy as long as sets are taken to muscle failure (Burd 2010; Burd 2011; Mitchell 2012). These varied muscle adaptations underscore the importance of periodization for producing the most desirable changes in a muscle, whether the person’s goal is increasing muscle endurance or increasing maximal strength. This is because each adaptation is related to the others. “For example, increasing both maximal strength and muscle endurance beneficially affects muscle hypertrophy. So while the person should spend the majority of training time using the repetition range that best fits his or her major goals, the periodic cycling of other intensities will enhance this goal.”
Excerpt From: Jim Stoppani. “Jim Stoppani's Encyclopedia of Muscle & Strength, 2E.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/WboF3.l "
In my training I employ each strategy, since I want both strength and hypertrophy gains. I will squat at lower reps to build strength (5/3/1 currently) and then as an assessory, front squat (or barbell split squat) at lower percentage of my max for higher reps to encourage muscle (4x8 or 5x10) growth. Then I will add a finisher (keeping with quads) like dumbbell goblet squats (or box step-ups or box jumps), and hit the 12+ range for a few sets.
I'm pretty gassed after that.
Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread too much, but does your intake impact any of that? i.e. do you keep the hypertrophy work (volume) while you are cutting, assuming you cut? I've often wondered if there was any meaningful benefit to doing growth volume while eating at cut intake levels.
Energy intake will impact training potential sure. Generally, less energy means you'll need to reduce volume. Higher reps isn't necessarily indicative of higher volume, though it may be easier to accumulate volume with higher reps as it is less draining and will take less time to complete... You can run a higher volume approach with lower reps, it's just very taxing on your CNS... ex:
10x3 @ 87% 1RM = 30 reps
vs
3x10 @ 70% 1RM = 30 reps.
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Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?0 -
Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
It's a loaded question with so many different answers that are entirely circumstantial. It really depends on the context... Training age of individual, body composition,specific goals or sport specificity, weaknesses & imbalances, how deep into the cut, etc..0 -
Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
Weellllllllllll lots of things- but I know doing lower rep strength oriented stuff at some point on a deficit is going to give you diminishing returns. At some point you'll just be lifting to lift and get stuck. so then you're lifts suffer because you're only doing a handful of reps and not growing.
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Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
Hey jackson. One question I would have for you is why would you want to do hypertrophy work period? You do some competitive racing right? To me it seems like you'd want to work on maximal strength, power, and strength endurance; adding weight via hypetrophy doesn't seem ideal. Or are you asking hypothetically?0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
It's a loaded question with so many different answers that are entirely circumstantial. It really depends on the context... Training age of individual, body composition,specific goals or sport specificity, weaknesses & imbalances, how deep into the cut, etc..
Gotcha, thanks.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
Hey jackson. One question I would have for you is why would you want to do hypertrophy work period? You do some competitive racing right? To me it seems like you'd want to work on maximal strength, power, and strength endurance; adding weight via hypetrophy doesn't seem ideal. Or are you asking hypothetically?
A little of both. Yes, I do some competitive racing, so strength/endurance-to-weight ratio is my biggest goal. But like most of us, vanity is a factor too.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Maybe I didn't phrase my question properly.
If you're cutting, and thus eating in a deficit... is there meaningful value to doing higher volume hypertrophy work versus lower volume strength work?
Hey jackson. One question I would have for you is why would you want to do hypertrophy work period? You do some competitive racing right? To me it seems like you'd want to work on maximal strength, power, and strength endurance; adding weight via hypetrophy doesn't seem ideal. Or are you asking hypothetically?
A little of both. Yes, I do some competitive racing, so strength/endurance-to-weight ratio is my biggest goal. But like most of us, vanity is a factor too.
The best bet for a competitor like yourself might be, if you have an off-season that is, to work on hypertrophy and maximal strength development with the appropriate nutrition. Then perhaps 12 to 16 weeks out from the start of the season switch gears and nutrition to cut.
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Yea... that's pretty much my goal/intention each year. Execution can vary, but that's the goal.0
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Neversettle78 wrote: »tamiandtoto wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »Mycophilia wrote: »That would depend entirely on what your goal is. Endurance or strength.
+1
If it's for endurance... you could go with light weights or no weights.
If you're doing it for strength and muscle mass*, then you should have a progressive overload in weight.
*muscle mass would require correct macros and a caloric surplus
I don't want to necessarily build up muscle mass, but I would like to tone and shape things up.
Oh no, you just said "tone"
The horror! At least I didn't bring up clean eating, processed foods or ask about appetite suppressants
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Thanks for the advice and education. I am up to about 3 sets of 40 and am about 6lbs from my goal weight, so I figured now is the time to shape (def. not tone) things up. I just want to make sure that I'm making the best use of my time at the gym and getting a nicer butt and legs in the process.0
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tamiandtoto wrote: »Thanks for the advice and education. I am up to about 3 sets of 40 and am about 6lbs from my goal weight, so I figured now is the time to shape (def. not tone) things up. I just want to make sure that I'm making the best use of my time at the gym and getting a nicer butt and legs in the process.
Well, you're going to get better results lifting heavier. I mean, I have light days/high reps--but it's still heavy enough to be getting only in the 8-12 rep range for 4 or 5 sets. Heavy days are in the 5 rep range.0 -
tamiandtoto wrote: »Thanks for the advice and education. I am up to about 3 sets of 40 and am about 6lbs from my goal weight, so I figured now is the time to shape (def. not tone) things up. I just want to make sure that I'm making the best use of my time at the gym and getting a nicer butt and legs in the process.
3 sets of 40, so 120 reps total? I'd add some weight.0 -
tamiandtoto wrote: »Thanks for the advice and education. I am up to about 3 sets of 40 and am about 6lbs from my goal weight, so I figured now is the time to shape (def. not tone) things up. I just want to make sure that I'm making the best use of my time at the gym and getting a nicer butt and legs in the process.
Since you're close to goal weight, you should give this thread a read. TONS of useful information:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat0 -
tamiandtoto wrote: »Thanks for the advice and education. I am up to about 3 sets of 40 and am about 6lbs from my goal weight, so I figured now is the time to shape (def. not tone) things up. I just want to make sure that I'm making the best use of my time at the gym and getting a nicer butt and legs in the process.
What are you trying to accomplish? Upping the reps isn't going to help much. If you want a challenge that will actually help your strength too, try doing 1 set with the weight on the bar being equal to your body weight and do 25 straight reps without racking the bar. If you weight 145lbs, then load 145lbs and rep it. You can stop and breathe of course, but don't get out of position or rack the bar. 3 sets of 40 is not very useful and is outside of the range for what would even be considered strength-endurance or strength & core stabilization.0 -
XavierNusum wrote: »
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »tamiandtoto wrote: »Thanks for the advice and education. I am up to about 3 sets of 40 and am about 6lbs from my goal weight, so I figured now is the time to shape (def. not tone) things up. I just want to make sure that I'm making the best use of my time at the gym and getting a nicer butt and legs in the process.
What are you trying to accomplish? Upping the reps isn't going to help much. If you want a challenge that will actually help your strength too, try doing 1 set with the weight on the bar being equal to your body weight and do 25 straight reps without racking the bar. If you weight 145lbs, then load 145lbs and rep it. You can stop and breathe of course, but don't get out of position or rack the bar. 3 sets of 40 is not very useful and is outside of the range for what would even be considered strength-endurance or strength & core stabilization.
ha- I've done the 20 rep squat breathing thing. LORD. I got up to 175- so 10-15 pounds over my body weight- I failed 170 once- repeated it the next workout. And I think 175 I made it to 14 or 16- that ish sucks.0
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