Wendler 531

531 is a solid program. I recommend it to a lot of people, especially those who are having difficulty busting through plateaus.

Does anyone have the android app? I'm a little confused as to what to actually do on any given day. I did the first day today and the app isn't very intuitive. (or I am very stupid!)

I trained OHP, DL, bench and squat today at 65%, 75% and 85% of my 1RM with the last set being AMRAP. Once I entered that into the app it sent me straight to week 2. The weights were nice and easy as it's the first day.

Stronglifts and madcow both assume you are going to train 3 times a week and make that clear on the apps.

Did I just train a whole week in 1 day?

If I plan to train 3 times a week do I do the press, DL, bench and squat 3 sets of 5 at the same weight for those 3 sessions then move onto the next week?

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

While I prefer a bit more volume,

@jacksonpt It doesn't sound like you have Beyond 5/3/1. Get that, it makes up for any lack in total volume.

I have it, and I've skimmed it, but need to read it more thoroughly. What I loved about the first book (simplicity) is most definitely lost in the Beyond book. I'm sure the programming is still simple, but the approach/mindset seemed different. The first book struck me as, "don't think so much, just go in and do these sets/reps." While the Beyond book felt more like, "here, let me help you overthink things. What did you have for breakfast? What color shirt are you wearing? Were you born on an odd or even day? Ok, then do this, but only if it's Monday. If it's not Monday, then..." All of which is probably great for people who love to lift and who love the process. But for me, it's just a means to an end. I love the progression/results, but don't love the process.

I dunno... maybe I just wasn't in the right mood for the added complexity (sophistication?) of the second book. Either way, I'm going to give it another read and see what sticks.

kindrabbit wrote: »

Does anyone have the android app? I'm a little confused as to what to actually do on any given day. I did the first day today and the app isn't very intuitive. (or I am very stupid!)

I trained OHP, DL, bench and squat today at 65%, 75% and 85% of my 1RM with the last set being AMRAP. Once I entered that into the app it sent me straight to week 2. The weights were nice and easy as it's the first day.

Stronglifts and madcow both assume you are going to train 3 times a week and make that clear on the apps.

Did I just train a whole week in 1 day?

If I plan to train 3 times a week do I do the press, DL, bench and squat 3 sets of 5 at the same weight for those 3 sessions then move onto the next week?

Honestly, buy the book it's all in there. Don't rely on the apps as Jim had little to nothing to do with them and many took his work without his approval.

yopeeps025 wrote: »

kindrabbit wrote: »

Does anyone have the android app? I'm a little confused as to what to actually do on any given day. I did the first day today and the app isn't very intuitive. (or I am very stupid!)

I trained OHP, DL, bench and squat today at 65%, 75% and 85% of my 1RM with the last set being AMRAP. Once I entered that into the app it sent me straight to week 2. The weights were nice and easy as it's the first day.

Stronglifts and madcow both assume you are going to train 3 times a week and make that clear on the apps.

Did I just train a whole week in 1 day?

If I plan to train 3 times a week do I do the press, DL, bench and squat 3 sets of 5 at the same weight for those 3 sessions then move onto the next week?

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lift.fivethreeonestrength&hl=en

Yes you trained a whole week in one day.

Personally I would do. squat deadlift by themselves on days and do bench and OHP in same day.

You definitely need the book for this, it's really all in there. If you're talking about doing 5/3/1 sets for both Press and Bench in the same session that would be less then ideal for sure because whatever you do first will fatigue most of the same muscles for the 2nd. If you're talking 5/3/1 and then something like BBB or FSL then sure you could do that.

Day 1
- Squat @ 5/3/1
- Bench Press @ First Set Last
- Upper Back exericse
- Back Raises
- Abs or Obliques (1 or 2 exercises only)

Day 2
- Deadlift @ 5/3/1
- Press @ 5/3/1
- Upper Back Exercises
- Ab or Obliques (1 or 2 exercises only)

Day 3
- Squat @ First Set Last
- Bench @ 5/3/1 sets
- Upper back
- Back Raises
- Abs or Obliques

This isn't even my own thing, this is something similar that Jim posted on his membership site. Keep it simple.

I, personally, haven't had much luck with the 531 apps so I still use the printout from blackironbeast.
I like the BBB where I can set the percentage and using the "less boring". Less boring is where, say, on OHP day, instead of doing 5x10 additional OHP it has you doing 5x10 for bench. So bench day has me OHP, squats and DL, then DL plus squats.
This allows me to get each body group twice a week, one being a heavier day the other being a lower weight/higher volume day.

jemhh wrote: »

kindrabbit wrote: »

Does anyone have the android app? I'm a little confused as to what to actually do on any given day. I did the first day today and the app isn't very intuitive. (or I am very stupid!)

I trained OHP, DL, bench and squat today at 65%, 75% and 85% of my 1RM with the last set being AMRAP. Once I entered that into the app it sent me straight to week 2. The weights were nice and easy as it's the first day.

Stronglifts and madcow both assume you are going to train 3 times a week and make that clear on the apps.

Did I just train a whole week in 1 day?

If I plan to train 3 times a week do I do the press, DL, bench and squat 3 sets of 5 at the same weight for those 3 sessions then move onto the next week?

You might want to go use the blackironbeast calculator, even if you actually use your app to track things. It will lay out the workout for each day so you can see how your week is scheduled.

Thank you, I've just had a look. I wasn't doing anywhere near as many sets as this page suggests.

My usual routine is to do 3 of the big 5 lifts on any one day, training 3 days a week: 5 sets of 5 reps.


this page is suggesting:
(eg OHP)

5X20kg
5X20kg
3X 20kg
5X22.5kg
5X25kg
AMRAP 5+ 27.5kg
10X20
10X20
10X20
10X20
10X20

That's a big difference!

11 sets? is that right? I've never trained like that before, its a bit daunting. the app that I followed today just said 3 sets of 5 and I thought it wasn't much, hence why I did it all.

I suppose at the end of the day as long as I get a good workout its all good time under pressure for my muscles but I do like to have a program to follow (and if I'm going to follow it, I'll follow it to the letter, it's just my nature)

jemhh wrote: »

kindrabbit wrote: »

jemhh wrote: »

kindrabbit wrote: »

Does anyone have the android app? I'm a little confused as to what to actually do on any given day. I did the first day today and the app isn't very intuitive. (or I am very stupid!)

I trained OHP, DL, bench and squat today at 65%, 75% and 85% of my 1RM with the last set being AMRAP. Once I entered that into the app it sent me straight to week 2. The weights were nice and easy as it's the first day.

Stronglifts and madcow both assume you are going to train 3 times a week and make that clear on the apps.

Did I just train a whole week in 1 day?

If I plan to train 3 times a week do I do the press, DL, bench and squat 3 sets of 5 at the same weight for those 3 sessions then move onto the next week?

You might want to go use the blackironbeast calculator, even if you actually use your app to track things. It will lay out the workout for each day so you can see how your week is scheduled.

Thank you, I've just had a look. I wasn't doing anywhere near as many sets as this page suggests.

My usual routine is to do 3 of the big 5 lifts on any one day, training 3 days a week: 5 sets of 5 reps.


this page is suggesting:
(eg OHP)

5/3/1 sets
5X20kg (warmup)
5X20kg (warmup)
3X 20kg (warmup)
5X22.5kg (work set)
5X25kg (work set)
AMRAP 5+ 27.5kg (work set)

BBB sets
10X20
10X20
10X20
10X20
10X20

That's a big difference!

11 sets? is that right? I've never trained like that before, its a bit daunting. the app that I followed today just said 3 sets of 5 and I thought it wasn't much, hence why I did it all.

I suppose at the end of the day as long as I get a good workout its all good time under pressure for my muscles but I do like to have a program to follow (and if I'm going to follow it, I'll follow it to the letter, it's just my nature)

That's the Boring But Big program. With that program, you do 5/3/1 sets of your compound lift and then you do 5 sets of 10 of the same lift. Alternatively, you could do 5 sets of 10 of the opposite compound lift. By that I mean that on your OHP day you would do 5/3/1 for OHP and then 5 sets of 10 on bench press and on bench press day you would do 5/3/1 for bench and 5 sets of 10 for OHP. I went ahead and labeled this when I quoted your post.

If you don't like the BBB program, I would suggest trying one of the other templates on there. I'm switching to the Simplest Strength, which is 4 days a week. The Full Body Training is nice if you like to squat more often and if you like to train 3 days per week instead of 4.

All of this.

It's a good way to get some strength work in, followed by some volume. Best of both worlds.

I was doing 5/3/1 BBB and I liked it a lot. As others said, its simple, but it gives you some volume and some lifting heavy.

I ran into the issue of I wasn't putting in the necessary pre-hab and recovery time and was getting very tight and sore. This is not an issue with the program, it was 100% me not putting in the time necessary to do it right.

Currently I'm doing a different program, but I do think I'll give 5/3/1 another go when I feel my discipline to do everything properly is there.

I ran into the issue of I wasn't putting in the necessary pre-hab and recovery time and was getting very tight and sore. This is not an issue with the program, it was 100% me not putting in the time necessary to do it right.

That's awesome that you admit to that. Most people just say, ah this program is crap and walk away without taking any personal accountability for their training.

Just had my first deload when I missed OHP at 80lbs. Just wouldn't go.

I'm surprised that you missed after 5 cycles. Are you sure maybe you weren't just having an off-day? What was your training max for cycle 1 on the Press?

auddii wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

I'm surprised that you missed after 5 cycles. Are you sure maybe you weren't just having an off-day? What was your training max for cycle 1 on the Press?

Cycle 1 was a training max of 70lbs. I'm a weakling.

ETA: And my training max by the time I failed was 82.5lbs.

I'm not sure I'm following you because the numbers don't add-up. Remember, you're increasing your TM each week not necessarily the weight for each set. If the TM x % works out to where you're increasing the weight then great, but sometimes it might not work out that way.

Cycle 1 Press (I'm just using the % for what the last set would be each cycle) and I'm just using this formula and rounding accordingly, TM x 85% / TM x 90% / TM x 95%
- Cycle 1 TM = 70lbs
5's week last set = 60lbs | 3's week 65lbs (63 rounded to 65) | 1's = 65lbs (66.5 rounded down to 65)

- Cycle 2 TM = 75lbs
5's week = 65lbs (64 rounded to 65) | 3's week 70 (rounded up from 68) | 1's 70lbs

- Cycle 3 TM = 80lbs
5's week = 70 | 3's week = 70 | 1's week = 75

-Cycle 4 TM = 85lbs
5's week = 70 | 3's week = 75 | 1's week = 80

- Cycle 5 TM = 90
5's week = 75 | 3's week = 80 | 1's week = 85

Make sure you're using a true training max. I can tell you with almost 100% certainty your TM was too high and that's why you failed. Let's say for cycle 5 that you hit all 5-reps on your last set which should have been 75lbs.

=(75lbs * 5 reps * 2%)+75 (I used 2% because it's a little more conservative on upper body than the 3.3%)

With that formula your estimated 1-rep max is 82.5lbs, so let's just round-down to 80lbs; always start too light so you're setup better for long-term success. Then, take a lighter training max than the 90%, on many occasions Jim has recommended 85%. So...

80lbs est 1-RM x 85% = 68lbs, so 70lbs

auddii wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

auddii wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

I'm surprised that you missed after 5 cycles. Are you sure maybe you weren't just having an off-day? What was your training max for cycle 1 on the Press?

Cycle 1 was a training max of 70lbs. I'm a weakling.

ETA: And my training max by the time I failed was 82.5lbs.

I'm not sure I'm following you because the numbers don't add-up. Remember, you're increasing your TM each week not necessarily the weight for each set. If the TM x % works out to where you're increasing the weight then great, but sometimes it might not work out that way.

Cycle 1 Press (I'm just using the % for what the last set would be each cycle) and I'm just using this formula and rounding accordingly, TM x 85% / TM x 90% / TM x 95%
- Cycle 1 TM = 70lbs
5's week last set = 60lbs | 3's week 65lbs (63 rounded to 65) | 1's = 65lbs (66.5 rounded down to 65)

- Cycle 2 TM = 75lbs
5's week = 65lbs (64 rounded to 65) | 3's week 70 (rounded up from 68) | 1's 70lbs

- Cycle 3 TM = 80lbs
5's week = 70 | 3's week = 70 | 1's week = 75

-Cycle 4 TM = 85lbs
5's week = 70 | 3's week = 75 | 1's week = 80

- Cycle 5 TM = 90
5's week = 75 | 3's week = 80 | 1's week = 85

Make sure you're using a true training max. I can tell you with almost 100% certainty your TM was too high and that's why you failed. Let's say for cycle 5 that you hit all 5-reps on your last set which should have been 75lbs.

=(75lbs * 5 reps * 2%)+75 (I used 2% because it's a little more conservative on upper body than the 3.3%)

With that formula your estimated 1-rep max is 82.5lbs, so let's just round-down to 80lbs; always start too light so you're setup better for long-term success. Then, take a lighter training max than the 90%, on many occasions Jim has recommended 85%. So...

80lbs est 1-RM x 85% = 68lbs, so 70lbs

Hm, this is were the being lazy came in. I've been using the wendlerized app and just put my numbers in and follow what it says.

I used my failure sets from 5x5 as my starting rep maxes, and that's how it gave me the training max of 70. Also, I'm doing 3 weeks of lifting followed by a deload because I'm following the original book.

And I'm not sure why the app has done this, but here's what it gave me for training maxes:

Cycle 1 - 70
Cycle 2 - 72.5
Cycle 3 - 77.5
Cycle 4 - 80
Cycle 5 - 82.5

I guess this means I should probably stop being lazy and calculate it for myself. I should probably look into the new book as well.

I think the Black Iron Beast is the only one that actually works with Jim a little, many of them have done without his permission. Jim actually discussed this about a year ago on his forum. I'm not sure what that app is doing but the progression is definitely incorrect; progression should be +5lbs / +10lbs (upper / lower) every training cycle.

The best thing I could tell you is to be conservative in your Training Max. The Training Max isn't necessarily and indication of your strength, but rather a very good tool for regulating your training and progression. The weight accumulates fast, so starting on the light side is okay. If you were able to complete the 5's week then use the 5's week weight in the calculation for your new estimated 1-rep max and new training max. You may want to do this with all your lifts for consistencies sake.

Formulas:

Estimated 1-rep Max = weight lifted x reps x 2% + weight lifted (I like 2% as it's a little conservative)

Training Max = Estimated 1-rep max x 85% (0.85)

Excel formulas to help

If you have Microsoft Excel 2010 this is the best method
=mround(TM x %, 5) example: =mround(70*.65,5) = 45lbs (week 1 set #1)

Or you can just do TM * % and round it in your head. One of the best things I've found is to just get a notebook and write the stuff down, and even write it down for a couple cycles at a time. You can take notes record things and not worry about your phone, keep it in your gym bag or locker; it's just another distraction.

auddii wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

auddii wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

I'm surprised that you missed after 5 cycles. Are you sure maybe you weren't just having an off-day? What was your training max for cycle 1 on the Press?

Cycle 1 was a training max of 70lbs. I'm a weakling.

ETA: And my training max by the time I failed was 82.5lbs.

I'm not sure I'm following you because the numbers don't add-up. Remember, you're increasing your TM each week not necessarily the weight for each set. If the TM x % works out to where you're increasing the weight then great, but sometimes it might not work out that way.

Cycle 1 Press (I'm just using the % for what the last set would be each cycle) and I'm just using this formula and rounding accordingly, TM x 85% / TM x 90% / TM x 95%
- Cycle 1 TM = 70lbs
5's week last set = 60lbs | 3's week 65lbs (63 rounded to 65) | 1's = 65lbs (66.5 rounded down to 65)

- Cycle 2 TM = 75lbs
5's week = 65lbs (64 rounded to 65) | 3's week 70 (rounded up from 68) | 1's 70lbs

- Cycle 3 TM = 80lbs
5's week = 70 | 3's week = 70 | 1's week = 75

-Cycle 4 TM = 85lbs
5's week = 70 | 3's week = 75 | 1's week = 80

- Cycle 5 TM = 90
5's week = 75 | 3's week = 80 | 1's week = 85

Make sure you're using a true training max. I can tell you with almost 100% certainty your TM was too high and that's why you failed. Let's say for cycle 5 that you hit all 5-reps on your last set which should have been 75lbs.

=(75lbs * 5 reps * 2%)+75 (I used 2% because it's a little more conservative on upper body than the 3.3%)

With that formula your estimated

Hm, this is were the being lazy came in. I've been using the wendlerized app and just put my numbers in and follow what it says.

I used my failure sets from 5x5 as my starting rep maxes, and that's how it gave me the training max of 70. Also, I'm doing 3 weeks of lifting followed by a deload because I'm following the original book.

And I'm not sure why the app has done this, but here's what it gave me for training maxes:

Cycle 1 - 70
Cycle 2 - 72.5
Cycle 3 - 77.5
Cycle 4 - 80
Cycle 5 - 82.5

I guess this means I should probably stop being lazy and calculate it for myself. I should probably look into the new book as well.

Are you using your true max based on your 5×5 numbers or are you using 90% of that as Jim recommends?

There is nothing wrong with resets. I have heard someone claim that Jim recommends 3 cycles forward and 2 back to keep you from getting too heavy and injuring yourself. (plus it makes more room for Jokers that may be up to 120% of your training max)

dave4d wrote: »

auddii wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

auddii wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

I'm surprised that you missed after 5 cycles. Are you sure maybe you weren't just having an off-day? What was your training max for cycle 1 on the Press?

Cycle 1 was a training max of 70lbs. I'm a weakling.

ETA: And my training max by the time I failed was 82.5lbs.

I'm not sure I'm following you because the numbers don't add-up. Remember, you're increasing your TM each week not necessarily the weight for each set. If the TM x % works out to where you're increasing the weight then great, but sometimes it might not work out that way.

Cycle 1 Press (I'm just using the % for what the last set would be each cycle) and I'm just using this formula and rounding accordingly, TM x 85% / TM x 90% / TM x 95%
- Cycle 1 TM = 70lbs
5's week last set = 60lbs | 3's week 65lbs (63 rounded to 65) | 1's = 65lbs (66.5 rounded down to 65)

- Cycle 2 TM = 75lbs
5's week = 65lbs (64 rounded to 65) | 3's week 70 (rounded up from 68) | 1's 70lbs

- Cycle 3 TM = 80lbs
5's week = 70 | 3's week = 70 | 1's week = 75

-Cycle 4 TM = 85lbs
5's week = 70 | 3's week = 75 | 1's week = 80

- Cycle 5 TM = 90
5's week = 75 | 3's week = 80 | 1's week = 85

Make sure you're using a true training max. I can tell you with almost 100% certainty your TM was too high and that's why you failed. Let's say for cycle 5 that you hit all 5-reps on your last set which should have been 75lbs.

=(75lbs * 5 reps * 2%)+75 (I used 2% because it's a little more conservative on upper body than the 3.3%)

With that formula your estimated

Hm, this is were the being lazy came in. I've been using the wendlerized app and just put my numbers in and follow what it says.

I used my failure sets from 5x5 as my starting rep maxes, and that's how it gave me the training max of 70. Also, I'm doing 3 weeks of lifting followed by a deload because I'm following the original book.

And I'm not sure why the app has done this, but here's what it gave me for training maxes:

Cycle 1 - 70
Cycle 2 - 72.5
Cycle 3 - 77.5
Cycle 4 - 80
Cycle 5 - 82.5

I guess this means I should probably stop being lazy and calculate it for myself. I should probably look into the new book as well.

Are you using your true max based on your 5×5 numbers or are you using 90% of that as Jim recommends?

There is nothing wrong with resets. I have heard someone claim that Jim recommends 3 cycles forward and 2 back to keep you from getting too heavy and injuring yourself. (plus it makes more room for Jokers that may be up to 120% of your training max)

Almost, his reset concept was based on 5 forward and 3 back. It's really effective actually and keeps you from burnout. It's had no affect on my strength either, I've hit PR's the first week after a reset; it's a really good addition to the training.