Belly roll, but doctor said to stop losing weight? Help!
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ghartleroad1 wrote: »I know you can't spot reduce. I know everyone says the only way to "see" abs is to lose weight. I've had a goal to get to 18.4 BMI (technically "underweight") just to see if I can do it and then probably maintain at the weight I am now.
This is seriously a bad idea. What do you mean, "just to see if you can do it"? What will that prove? That you're committed to irrational and ill-informed pursuits? It's not going to help longer-term, either, like at all - weight maintenance is an ongoing thing, you can't bank "less weight" for the future for longer than it takes to gain it back, which in your case is like a month or less. Please read the links people have offered you to correct the misinformation side of things.0 -
You are a 42 y/o woman that is working with college students...why would you set this example for them. You are supposed to be someone that they look up to...would you encourage them to try and become underweight?
Sorry but I think that your goals are a bit irresponsible.0 -
There is some good advice in the comments, but I would also caution against some of the judgments some people seem to be making based on the OPs measurements and stated goals.
A goal of going from a 19.4 BMI to an 18.4 BMI is not unreasonable, nor irrational, nor is it a sign of a psychological problem per se. Guys come in here all the time who are very lean and want to get super lean and they are rarely questioned about their goals.
In the case of the OP, it is probably not the appropriate goal, but not being knowledgeable about reshaping one's body does not automatically mean that someone has "issues".
No one should be using BMI to track and evaluate their individual progress. It has little meaning, and, in this case, obscures the issue.
OP has a body fat percentage (reported) of 27+%. While that is perfectly healthy, it is not low by any definition. So having a goal of reducing body fat from 27% is not unrealistic. (Again, in this case it is probably not the right thing to focus on, but that is a different issue).
Using the BF% as a baseline, we can calculate that the OP has an LBM of about 90lbs. For someone 5'7" tall, that IS significant. Among other things, it means that the significance of measurements based on height and weight will be significantly distorted. In the vast majority of cases, this reflects an inherited body type. Evaluating/judging this person on height/weight statistics alone will lead to erroneous conclusions IMO.
It is also likely that the accumulation of fat in the abdominal area is also an inherited trait (although is could also be enhanced if someone has severe anterior pelvic tilt).
There are some good recommendations in the comments--i.e. less focus on "fat loss" and calorie deficits, more emphasis on resistance training. It would also be helpful to evaluate posture, as someone else suggested to see if anterior pelvic tilt is a contributing factor.
I would also agree that the OP should be doing 3 total-body strength training workouts per week rather than a split routine. Recent research supports this idea. The best way to reshape your body is via resistance training.
Because of her body type, OP may see slower gains, and may not be able to eradicate those "problem areas". But she can see improvement and lifting weights is essential for long-term health.0 -
The OP stated that her doctor has told her not to lose any more weight. She acknowledges that her goal will put her in the underweight category. She also has said she is just doing it to see if she can do it then she will regain the weight.
As far as her body type...I think she would have better luck with some type of weight training vs going underweight.
Why would her doctor advise her to stop losing weight if he didn't see a problem?0 -
I'm 5'7, medium build, maintained for years at 124. That's on the low end but entirely sustainable. I have also been as low as 115 (briefly). It looked terrible, honestly. As per my reflection and the honest comments of people who a) care about me and b) know about fitness and c) know medicine.
OP doesn't have my body, ok - she may be very slight bonewise - but given that her doctor thinks it's a bad idea, I think it's reasonable to just go with that.0 -
Try to revamp your diet and exercise routine, pack more protein in and as much or more cals, most importantly stop majority of cardio and just focus on weight training, eat nothing but Eggs, Turkey lunch meat, skinless chicken, green vegetables and low carb/cal high protein bars, Cut out processed foods, breads, pasta, sweets ext. drink only water (no sports drinks, there designed to be less concentrated not like they are now) and just focus on protein and keeping to a min caloric intake, feed you muscles and use them, they will burn the fat and give you tone. I eat more than 100g of protein in a day and can stay under 1400 calories in a day, also if your working out you can safely eat 1400 or more calories and not gain weight, if you eat less and still gain you need to bump your intake up because when the body thinks it's being starved it goes into a energy saving mode and will try to save fat vs burn it, the trick is to eat enough to keep burning the fat. Don't worry about the scale, pack that thing away lol, if you stick to a protein based diet, do weight training type exercise (sit ups, push ups, planking, advanced yoga, weights ext) you will get leaner, be more healthy and look better. Don't forget daily vitamins to help substitute nutrition, also look up body builders and read about there bulking diets and exercises, you will gain weight but you will burn fat and gain muscle and tone. I have gained 60lbs or muscle and lost 114lbs overall so far.0
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darton2010 wrote: »Try to revamp your diet and exercise routine, pack more protein in and as much or more cals, most importantly stop majority of cardio and just focus on weight training, eat nothing but Eggs, Turkey lunch meat, skinless chicken, green vegetables and low carb/cal high protein bars, Cut out processed foods, breads, pasta, sweets ext. drink only water (no sports drinks, there designed to be less concentrated not like they are now) and just focus on protein and keeping to a min caloric intake, feed you muscles and use them, they will burn the fat and give you tone. I eat more than 100g of protein in a day and can stay under 1400 calories in a day, also if your working out you can safely eat 1400 or more calories and not gain weight, if you eat less and still gain you need to bump your intake up because when the body thinks it's being starved it goes into a energy saving mode and will try to save fat vs burn it, the trick is to eat enough to keep burning the fat. Don't worry about the scale, pack that thing away lol, if you stick to a protein based diet, do weight training type exercise (sit ups, push ups, planking, advanced yoga, weights ext) you will get leaner, be more healthy and look better. Don't forget daily vitamins to help substitute nutrition, also look up body builders and read about there bulking diets and exercises, you will gain weight but you will burn fat and gain muscle and tone. I have gained 60lbs or muscle and lost 114lbs overall so far.
I'm sorry, but OP I recommend you don't listen to this. There is some good advice in here, but also some bad advice.
Please look into doing a recomp, and come ask questions in the recomp thread if you are still having difficulty figuring it out.0 -
The OP stated that her doctor has told her not to lose any more weight. She acknowledges that her goal will put her in the underweight category. She also has said she is just doing it to see if she can do it then she will regain the weight.
As far as her body type...I think she would have better luck with some type of weight training vs going underweight.
Why would her doctor advise her to stop losing weight if he didn't see a problem?
27% body fat is not "underweight" no matter what the scale says, no matter what the BMI is. Very few doctors (and, quite frankly, not that many fitness people) really understand the nuances of body composition and how to evaluate these numbers.
From a practical standpoint, it doesn't matter that much. The recommendations for the OP are the same, regardless of how you interpret the numbers.
But too often, women of smaller stature are judged negatively if they express a desire to reduce higher levels of body fat. A 5'4" woman with an average frame who weighs 135 and is 27% body fat would likely not receive any negative response if she said she wanted to lose 5-10 lbs to look more lean/athletic. But another 5'4" woman with a very small frame who weighs 115 (but has the same 27% body fat) will likely be told she has body issues/eating disorder, etc if she dares to express a desire to reduce her fat levels.
Again, in the second case, it is better to focus on muscle gain, not fat loss, but not everyone knows that. They just know they want to improve their appearance and that should be OK.
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Ugh. I feel you OP. I think I am also getting stuck in the "just 5 more lbs" cycle. I am also 5'7, currently at 147lbs. I look in the mirror and I am pretty happy with how I look...except my fat belly. I am firm everywhere else..and my tummy feels like jello (and it is not loose skin by any means...at this point, i wish it was!)
Then comes the "should I lose more weight? when should I stop?" and it is hard getting into a mind-set of maintaining weight/gaining weight.
I should just suck it up and allow 10lbs worth of focusing on recomp and see what happens. When I first started at 250lbs...I loved lifting. It was "easy" to me. Then I got into cardio and I can not seem to get back into the lifting mode. I love my cardio way too much now!0 -
The OP stated that her doctor has told her not to lose any more weight. She acknowledges that her goal will put her in the underweight category. She also has said she is just doing it to see if she can do it then she will regain the weight.
As far as her body type...I think she would have better luck with some type of weight training vs going underweight.
Why would her doctor advise her to stop losing weight if he didn't see a problem?
27% body fat is not "underweight" no matter what the scale says, no matter what the BMI is. Very few doctors (and, quite frankly, not that many fitness people) really understand the nuances of body composition and how to evaluate these numbers.
From a practical standpoint, it doesn't matter that much. The recommendations for the OP are the same, regardless of how you interpret the numbers.
But too often, women of smaller stature are judged negatively if they express a desire to reduce higher levels of body fat. A 5'4" woman with an average frame who weighs 135 and is 27% body fat would likely not receive any negative response if she said she wanted to lose 5-10 lbs to look more lean/athletic. But another 5'4" woman with a very small frame who weighs 115 (but has the same 27% body fat) will likely be told she has body issues/eating disorder, etc if she dares to express a desire to reduce her fat levels.
Again, in the second case, it is better to focus on muscle gain, not fat loss, but not everyone knows that. They just know they want to improve their appearance and that should be OK.
27% body fat is within the average/healthy range for women. It's not underweight, but it's far from a medical problem. Don't forget - OP is a woman. Being underweight (by BMI, as that's how it's almost always been measured) is known to carry serious risks for hormonal health. The very reason that fat is hard for women's bodies to let go is because it's implicated in hormonal health.
I understand wanting to reduce that percentage or being concerned about aesthetic things like a belly roll. It's fine to want to do that. But recommending a bodybuilder's "cut and bulk" strategy to someone who is close to underweight by BMI, is within the healthy range for bodyfat, and is under doctor's orders to not lose weight makes absolutely no sense and imo is really terrible advice. (I'm not saying you've offered it here) And it's not even necessary to achieve OP's goals, at all! It's actually a pretty drastic approach (certainly in OP's case) that until recently has been limited to a very small counterculture. (It's fast but it's not the only way, how did this idea come about!) So why do it, in a case like this? I don't understand.
I can't see how anything other than the "recomposition" approach makes any sense for this person.
edit - It matters bc the OP has clearly absorbed the "cut and bulk" idea (in that she thinks she has to lose weight to lose fat) - maybe from her bodybuilding student - and it is straight up wrong to apply that logic in this case. I.e the bolded is NOT an ok idea in situations like this, when it leads people to think they have to lose weight.0 -
Get a second opinion, from another doctor, or even a sports physician. There may be reasons other than your current BMI or your BF% that your doctor thinks losing more weight is a bad idea.0
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Shame OP never came back!0
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TavistockToad wrote: »Shame OP never came back!
who?0 -
ghartleroad1 wrote: »Thanks for the quick reply @DavPul! Why still in deficit? Two things:
1. As I stated I'm still striving for a temporary achievement of 18.4 BMI.
2. I'm mentally freaked out about gaining weight.
A few weeks ago when I reduced my cardio to add weightlifting I gained a pound over two weeks (& I highly doubt it was muscle since I'd just started). Then last week I was on vacation during which I pretty much ate whatever I wanted (including piles of ice cream), didn't workout, but somehow maintained my weight exactly. I'm very confused about what's going on! Thoughts?
If you are freaked out about gaining a pound or two now...what will you feel when you are at a lower bmi? I would bet you would feel the same, not be where you want to be with your gut, and still want to lose.
Your doc told you to stop losing weight because you are at the bottom end of your ideal range, and you will be in a knock out-drag out fight with your body over losing any more.
No, you do not have to lose weight to lose fat. If you do not eat enough protein, for instance, for protein synthesis (the process of restoring and building muscle), you will lose muscle.
If you start losing weight below your ideal range, you WILL lose muscle. Do some research at this point. Find out how to use protein and fats and carbs to build muscle and allow the muscle to burn the fat. At your weight, it will be difficult because it is a precise balance, and it will take time to tone, but it can be done. Losing more weight, however, is not going to get you what you want.
http://www.calculator.net/ideal-weight-calculator.html?ctype=standard&cage=42&csex=f&cheightfeet=5&cheightinch=7&cheightmeter=180&printit=0&x=69&y=80 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »ghartleroad1 wrote: »Thanks for the quick reply @DavPul! Why still in deficit? Two things:
1. As I stated I'm still striving for a temporary achievement of 18.4 BMI.
2. I'm mentally freaked out about gaining weight.
A few weeks ago when I reduced my cardio to add weightlifting I gained a pound over two weeks (& I highly doubt it was muscle since I'd just started). Then last week I was on vacation during which I pretty much ate whatever I wanted (including piles of ice cream), didn't workout, but somehow maintained my weight exactly. I'm very confused about what's going on! Thoughts?
If you are freaked out about gaining a pound or two now...what will you feel when you are at a lower bmi? I would bet you would feel the same, not be where you want to be with your gut, and still want to lose.
Your doc told you to stop losing weight because you are at the bottom end of your ideal range, and you will be in a knock out-drag out fight with your body over losing any more.
No, you do not have to lose weight to lose fat. If you do not eat enough protein, for instance, for protein synthesis (the process of restoring and building muscle), you will lose muscle.
If you start losing weight below your ideal range, you WILL lose muscle. Do some research at this point. Find out how to use protein and fats and carbs to build muscle and allow the muscle to burn the fat. At your weight, it will be difficult because it is a precise balance, and it will take time to tone, but it can be done. Losing more weight, however, is not going to get you what you want.
http://www.calculator.net/ideal-weight-calculator.html?ctype=standard&cage=42&csex=f&cheightfeet=5&cheightinch=7&cheightmeter=180&printit=0&x=69&y=8
You are still ignoring the key fact that OP is 27% body fat. So there wouldn't be any "knockdown drag out fight".
If people don't know the difference between BMI and body fat %, or the implications of having a low LBM vs normal, they should be more cautious on this subject. While the advice is the same --emphasize resistance training over calorie restriction/fat loss--a lot of the associated comments can be superfluous or misleading IMO.
Since you advocate "doing research" I would direct you to this study:
Are under- and overweight female elite athletes thin and fat? A controlled study.
Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 2012 May 44(5): 949-957
The researchers compared BMI to body fat % in athletic females vs a control group.
Of all athletes in the "normal" BMI range, 6.7% were "obese" according to body fat (>33%).
In the control group, the number was closer to 50%.
Conclusion: "Our data show that BMI is not a valid measure for assessing or monitoring body composition in female elite athletes, and it should be used carefully in female nonathletes."
Bottom line: you cannot make judgments about the appropriateness of someone's weight loss goals based on BMI alone.
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Forgive me, I did confuse the terms and values.RockstarWilson wrote: »ghartleroad1 wrote: »Thanks for the quick reply @DavPul! Why still in deficit? Two things:
1. As I stated I'm still striving for a temporary achievement of 18.4 BMI.
2. I'm mentally freaked out about gaining weight.
A few weeks ago when I reduced my cardio to add weightlifting I gained a pound over two weeks (& I highly doubt it was muscle since I'd just started). Then last week I was on vacation during which I pretty much ate whatever I wanted (including piles of ice cream), didn't workout, but somehow maintained my weight exactly. I'm very confused about what's going on! Thoughts?
If you are freaked out about gaining a pound or two now...what will you feel when you are at a lower bmi? I would bet you would feel the same, not be where you want to be with your gut, and still want to lose.
Your doc told you to stop losing weight because you are at the bottom end of your ideal range, and you will be in a knock out-drag out fight with your body over losing any more.
No, you do not have to lose weight to lose fat. If you do not eat enough protein, for instance, for protein synthesis (the process of restoring and building muscle), you will lose muscle.
If you start losing weight below your ideal range, you WILL lose muscle. Do some research at this point. Find out how to use protein and fats and carbs to build muscle and allow the muscle to burn the fat. At your weight, it will be difficult because it is a precise balance, and it will take time to tone, but it can be done. Losing more weight, however, is not going to get you what you want.
http://www.calculator.net/ideal-weight-calculator.html?ctype=standard&cage=42&csex=f&cheightfeet=5&cheightinch=7&cheightmeter=180&printit=0&x=69&y=8
You are still ignoring the key fact that OP is 27% body fat. So there wouldn't be any "knockdown drag out fight".
If people don't know the difference between BMI and body fat %, or the implications of having a low LBM vs normal, they should be more cautious on this subject. While the advice is the same --emphasize resistance training over calorie restriction/fat loss--a lot of the associated comments can be superfluous or misleading IMO.
Since you advocate "doing research" I would direct you to this study:
Are under- and overweight female elite athletes thin and fat? A controlled study.
Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 2012 May 44(5): 949-957
The researchers compared BMI to body fat % in athletic females vs a control group.
Of all athletes in the "normal" BMI range, 6.7% were "obese" according to body fat (>33%).
In the control group, the number was closer to 50%.
Conclusion: "Our data show that BMI is not a valid measure for assessing or monitoring body composition in female elite athletes, and it should be used carefully in female nonathletes."
Bottom line: you cannot make judgments about the appropriateness of someone's weight loss goals based on BMI alone.
However, if she is at her ideal weight (which according to any standard she is well into that range), and has a high body fat %, then she had to have lost the weight by losing an extreme amount of LBM...hence the doc saying "stop losing weight." Losing weight has caused her to lose more muscle by not understanding how to maintain it. There is not any other way to explain those results. I am 29, male, 5'9", 190 lbs with about the same bf% as her.
By the fight analogy...I mean that her energy level would be greatly reduced if she continued at a calorie deficit, and she would probably lose a greater amount of muscle mass while still retaining the bf%.
Forgive me, but I am not quite sure the information you are refuting.
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How are you measuring body fat
I would imagine theres a strong chance that's wrong0 -
What is wrong with 27% body fat, though? What are the known health risks of having a normal body composition (reminder, 27% is normal)?
What are the known health risks of being underweight by BMI? Some I can think of:
Amenorrhea, osteoporosis (due to decreased estrogen production), infertility, earlier use of hormone therapy at menopause
http://umm.edu/health/medical/reports/articles/infertility-in-women
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3500688/
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jwh.2006.15.1028
http://contemporaryobgyn.modernmedicine.com/[node-source-domain-raw]/news/modernmedicine/modern-medicine-now/amenorrhea-caused-extremes-body-mas?page=full0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »ghartleroad1 wrote: »Thanks for the quick reply @DavPul! Why still in deficit? Two things:
1. As I stated I'm still striving for a temporary achievement of 18.4 BMI.
2. I'm mentally freaked out about gaining weight.
A few weeks ago when I reduced my cardio to add weightlifting I gained a pound over two weeks (& I highly doubt it was muscle since I'd just started). Then last week I was on vacation during which I pretty much ate whatever I wanted (including piles of ice cream), didn't workout, but somehow maintained my weight exactly. I'm very confused about what's going on! Thoughts?
If you are freaked out about gaining a pound or two now...what will you feel when you are at a lower bmi? I would bet you would feel the same, not be where you want to be with your gut, and still want to lose.
Your doc told you to stop losing weight because you are at the bottom end of your ideal range, and you will be in a knock out-drag out fight with your body over losing any more.
No, you do not have to lose weight to lose fat. If you do not eat enough protein, for instance, for protein synthesis (the process of restoring and building muscle), you will lose muscle.
If you start losing weight below your ideal range, you WILL lose muscle. Do some research at this point. Find out how to use protein and fats and carbs to build muscle and allow the muscle to burn the fat. At your weight, it will be difficult because it is a precise balance, and it will take time to tone, but it can be done. Losing more weight, however, is not going to get you what you want.
http://www.calculator.net/ideal-weight-calculator.html?ctype=standard&cage=42&csex=f&cheightfeet=5&cheightinch=7&cheightmeter=180&printit=0&x=69&y=8
You are still ignoring the key fact that OP is 27% body fat. So there wouldn't be any "knockdown drag out fight".
If people don't know the difference between BMI and body fat %, or the implications of having a low LBM vs normal, they should be more cautious on this subject. While the advice is the same --emphasize resistance training over calorie restriction/fat loss--a lot of the associated comments can be superfluous or misleading IMO.
Since you advocate "doing research" I would direct you to this study:
Are under- and overweight female elite athletes thin and fat? A controlled study.
Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 2012 May 44(5): 949-957
The researchers compared BMI to body fat % in athletic females vs a control group.
Of all athletes in the "normal" BMI range, 6.7% were "obese" according to body fat (>33%).
In the control group, the number was closer to 50%.
Conclusion: "Our data show that BMI is not a valid measure for assessing or monitoring body composition in female elite athletes, and it should be used carefully in female nonathletes."
Bottom line: you cannot make judgments about the appropriateness of someone's weight loss goals based on BMI alone.
All that says is that BMI doesn't speak to body composition. Which is fair enough. In order to make a judgement about what an "appropriate" body composition is, you now need to show what the health implications of various body composition ranges are.0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »ghartleroad1 wrote: »Thanks for the quick reply @DavPul! Why still in deficit? Two things:
1. As I stated I'm still striving for a temporary achievement of 18.4 BMI.
2. I'm mentally freaked out about gaining weight.
A few weeks ago when I reduced my cardio to add weightlifting I gained a pound over two weeks (& I highly doubt it was muscle since I'd just started). Then last week I was on vacation during which I pretty much ate whatever I wanted (including piles of ice cream), didn't workout, but somehow maintained my weight exactly. I'm very confused about what's going on! Thoughts?
If you are freaked out about gaining a pound or two now...what will you feel when you are at a lower bmi? I would bet you would feel the same, not be where you want to be with your gut, and still want to lose.
Your doc told you to stop losing weight because you are at the bottom end of your ideal range, and you will be in a knock out-drag out fight with your body over losing any more.
No, you do not have to lose weight to lose fat. If you do not eat enough protein, for instance, for protein synthesis (the process of restoring and building muscle), you will lose muscle.
If you start losing weight below your ideal range, you WILL lose muscle. Do some research at this point. Find out how to use protein and fats and carbs to build muscle and allow the muscle to burn the fat. At your weight, it will be difficult because it is a precise balance, and it will take time to tone, but it can be done. Losing more weight, however, is not going to get you what you want.
http://www.calculator.net/ideal-weight-calculator.html?ctype=standard&cage=42&csex=f&cheightfeet=5&cheightinch=7&cheightmeter=180&printit=0&x=69&y=8
You are still ignoring the key fact that OP is 27% body fat. So there wouldn't be any "knockdown drag out fight".
If people don't know the difference between BMI and body fat %, or the implications of having a low LBM vs normal, they should be more cautious on this subject. While the advice is the same --emphasize resistance training over calorie restriction/fat loss--a lot of the associated comments can be superfluous or misleading IMO.
Since you advocate "doing research" I would direct you to this study:
Are under- and overweight female elite athletes thin and fat? A controlled study.
Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 2012 May 44(5): 949-957
The researchers compared BMI to body fat % in athletic females vs a control group.
Of all athletes in the "normal" BMI range, 6.7% were "obese" according to body fat (>33%).
In the control group, the number was closer to 50%.
Conclusion: "Our data show that BMI is not a valid measure for assessing or monitoring body composition in female elite athletes, and it should be used carefully in female nonathletes."
Bottom line: you cannot make judgments about the appropriateness of someone's weight loss goals based on BMI alone.
All that says is that BMI doesn't speak to body composition. Which is fair enough. In order to make a judgement about what an "appropriate" body composition is, you now need to show what the health implications of various body composition ranges are.
The issue is not the "health implications" of different levels of body (that's a different discussion), but the judgments, conclusions, etc that are being made based on BMI alone. OP has been criticized for wanting to lose fat because her BMI is low. However, at 27% body fat, her goals are not unrealistic nor unhealthy per se. Now, 27% fat is not unhealthy, nor does she need to lower it. However it is also not that low either--someone who wanted to reduce that to appear more lean or athletic would not automatically have a poor body image or be wrong to have that desire. If this was a man who was 20% fat and who wanted to "look buff" and get down to 10-12% fat, no one would say a word--except to applaud and encourage him.
As I have said several times now, with her body type, the OP's plan to lose more fat via calorie restriction is misguided-that's not the best strategy. However, there is nothing wrong, based on her numbers, with her desire to improve her appearance by changing her body composition.0
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