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I called oatmeal cookies unhealthy and I got blasted - why?
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CharonCharon wrote: »I stated they had butter, white sugar, flour, chocolate chips, ect.
I consider all these things unhealthy.
But a couple of people say everything is healthy.
Is my wording wrong?
What would be unhealthy to those people in a cookie?
BTW - I like to eat in volumes.
I have never been able to do portion control in my entire life.
Oatmeal is a food I can eat and be full and be happy without guilt.
Rat poison.
There's nothing unhealthy about any of the ingredients as long as you don't have too much of it for a too long period of time.0 -
emiliebecause wrote: »I can't say it is a general position but it is one that comes across in the way some of the more prolific posters express themselves on the topic. For example, abruptly stating "CICO" without much context, to a newer poster who uses the word 'unhealthy' to describe food is going to come across as if nutrition doesn't matter. It's not a huge leap to make.
Almost always when the topic comes up people say "calories are what matter for weight loss, but food choice matters for health and often for how easy it is to stick to your calorie goal." I know this, because I always say it, and I'm usually not the first in the thread to do so.
If someone takes from that that nutrition doesn't matter, only calories, that's on them, and doesn't make your claim about what's the usual position at MFP correct.0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »Can I just make the point again that OP's original post was looking for an oatmeal cookie recipe that she could binge on, because she doesn't "do portion control" and was whining that she couldn't find an oatmeal cookie recipe that would let her eat a whole batch because they're unhealthy?
The 'moderation' responses were that oatmeal cookies weren't unhealthy in moderation, but that looking for a magic bingeable recipe for cookies so you could eat the whole damn lot, was not reasonable, logical or sustainable.
Wow, I missed the original thread. This really puts the whole thing in perspective.0 -
You should come to my running club track sessions - we're all amazing home bakers and sometimes we bring cookies and cake for after training.The junior track coach gave me an amazing recipe for strawberry crumble the other day.
In my opinion, 'high in nutrients' is important for health if you're restricting calories, because if you're not eating much you have to make what you do eat count. If you're very active (like some people at the gym, perhaps), you're probably eating a lot more food and some of it can easily be cookies, as you're still getting all the other nutrients you need elsewhere in your diet.
Yeah, almost every group bike or run around here ends up intentionally at brunch or a bakery. Same with many of my tri club workouts.
It is true people generally don't waste time "defending" what they are eating, because there's no need to.0 -
Chocolate chip is the only cookie I officially recognize. All those other types are just what one eats when the chocolate chip cookies run out - not that I have a problem with those others. As a matter of fact, some of them are almost as good as chocolate chip. Almost. However, there is a particularly evil type of oatmeal cookie that has raisins in it ... looks like a chocolate chip cookie, but what a bitter bitter disappointment. Tastes like betrayal0
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On MFP you must be VERY careful about how you word things or you will get blasted. This is why I don't post much anymore. I do read other post until the blasting starts then I quit!0
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That's the thing though... the overall healthiness of a diet is a different thing. You can have an overall healthy diet while still eating some unhealthy things.
It just really bugs me when people jump at posters' throats about 'what's unhealthy about x food' when x food has like 200+ calories a serving and doesn't really have much in term of nutrients (talking about micros, not macros). Unless people are really obtuse on purpose, everyone knows that fruit is healthier than a cookie (it has vitamins, fiber, etc). Heck nuts might have close to 200 calories a serving but they are full of healthy fats.. a cookie? not so much. And it won't fill you up one bit for the calories either.
For 200 calories of zucchini you get over 100% of Vitamin C, 20% Iron, 50% vitamin A, 20% calcium, 14g of fiber...
200 calories of Oreos? 12% Iron. That's it.
So there's your answer - the difference is in the micros (and I guess in the quality of fats to an extent).
Fruit having more micros than something else does f*** all for you if you only have it once a week and then only a small piece. It's not the food that is healthy but the way you decide to eat it in the context of your total diet. That's what we keep explaining.0 -
But just because there's nothing wrong with eating a couple cookies in a day doesn't make cookies a healthy food. I don't understand why the 'moderation crowd' insists on the whole 'nothing is unhealthy' thing. It's just silly. Of course some foods are not healthy. Sure, it's not unhealthy to just eat them in moderation, but coming to every single thread telling people that there's nothing unhealthy about cookies is just dumb.
It seems like that's not how this thread actually started.
But to address the question: people seem to use "unhealthy" when applied to foods in a couple of different ways. First, to mean "not nutrient dense" or "hard to fit in my macros and goals" and, second, to mean "actually harmful to consume, even in moderation." I tend to think of it as the latter, so to me cookies are not "unhealthy." (They are not "healthy" either. They are neutral.)
Whether a food is "healthy" also seems to have two possible definitions: (1) will improve your health; or (2) nutrient dense. I sometimes do use it to mean the latter, but if you use it to mean the former, NO food individually fits in that category--it only makes sense to talk of healthy and unhealthy diets.
That is because a diet made up of only "healthy" (as in nutrient dense) foods may still be quite unhealthy if the foods are not chosen well. (For example, a diet of only raw veggies would be lacking in protein and fat and likely too low in calories for many people. A diet of only chicken breast would be lacking too.)
A cookie is generally NOT the most nutritious choice one can make, but whether that matters or not depends on the overall diet. A diet that includes occasional cookies is not less healthy by definition than one that does not.
And personally I don't find that I am more hungry when I include some ice cream or a cookie (though I rarely eat cookies) in my day. I do often choose not to eat cookies, though.0 -
cindyangotti wrote: »On MFP you must be VERY careful about how you word things or you will get blasted. This is why I don't post much anymore. I do read other post until the blasting starts then I quit!
In reality, people get blasted all of the time for what others THINK they said, not for what they actually said, so careful wording isn't always helpful. Too many people with too many pet theories who want to spout out their theories at every opportunity. They will create drama where there is none just so they can argue.
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OP is a troll. I scanned for 5 pages- OP and nothing else.
That's it. Trolling.0 -
OP, either quit posting troll threads or make them more interesting. You made a wild nutritional claim in your very first post, now you're making a wild claim about your other thread.
In the event that you are a genuine person, what on earth do you think is going to make those oatmeal cookies palatable, if not for sugar? If not granulated/brown, then from apple juice or bananas or w/e.
If you cannot control your volume eating, perhaps you should seek guidance from a mental health professional and not a forum.
Side note, only one or two of the white knights in this thread seems to have lost a significant amount of weight. [Edited by MFP Mod]. Who do you want to listen to?0 -
barbecuesauce wrote: »
Side note, only one or two of the white knights in this thread seems to have lost a significant amount of weight. [Edited by MFP mod] Who do you want to listen to?
I am not sure if I'm a white knight or not but I've lost 94 pounds and I do find a handful of the people here to be rude and often just mean and they have not lost a significant amount of weight either!0 -
KittensMaster wrote: »
Exactly how I see many on MFP
Just learn to ignore them.
The conversations defending eating those junk foods just don't happen at the gym.
Yup..., totally. This.^^^^^0 -
That's the thing though... the overall healthiness of a diet is a different thing. You can have an overall healthy diet while still eating some unhealthy things.
It just really bugs me when people jump at posters' throats about 'what's unhealthy about x food' when x food has like 200+ calories a serving and doesn't really have much in term of nutrients (talking about micros, not macros). Unless people are really obtuse on purpose, everyone knows that fruit is healthier than a cookie (it has vitamins, fiber, etc). Heck nuts might have close to 200 calories a serving but they are full of healthy fats.. a cookie? not so much. And it won't fill you up one bit for the calories either.
For 200 calories of zucchini you get over 100% of Vitamin C, 20% Iron, 50% vitamin A, 20% calcium, 14g of fiber...
200 calories of Oreos? 12% Iron. That's it.
So there's your answer - the difference is in the micros (and I guess in the quality of fats to an extent).
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Galonamission81 wrote: »
Yup..., totally. This.^^^^^
We talk about all the yummy foods at my gym....just sayin'.0 -
CharonCharon wrote: »I stated they had butter, white sugar, flour, chocolate chips, ect.
I consider all these things unhealthy.
But a couple of people say everything is healthy.
Is my wording wrong?
What would be unhealthy to those people in a cookie?
BTW - I like to eat in volumes.
I have never been able to do portion control in my entire life.
Oatmeal is a food I can eat and be full and be happy without guilt.
I always get blasted also when i mention 'clean' eating and avoiding stuff like you mention. Seems everyone loves IIFYM (which i think is rubbish)0 -
lovellm122 wrote: »
I always get blasted also when i mention 'clean' eating and avoiding stuff like you mention. Seems everyone loves IIFYM (which i think is rubbish)
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lovellm122 wrote: »
I always get blasted also when i mention 'clean' eating and avoiding stuff like you mention. Seems everyone loves IIFYM (which i think is rubbish)
How is it rubbish??0 -
lovellm122 wrote: »
I always get blasted also when i mention 'clean' eating and avoiding stuff like you mention. Seems everyone loves IIFYM (which i think is rubbish)
so....
Breakfast:
1/2 cup homemade pinto beans with a couple of eggs scrambled and some grilled chicken thighs, low sodium V8 and some coffee
Snack:
3 ounces blue berries
Lunch:
6 ounces shredded chicken with homemade salsa fresca, 1/2 avocado, 1 cup pinto beans and 4 ounces steamed broccoli
Snack:
1 nectarine and 1 ounces almonds, & whey protein supplement
Dinner:
6 ounces grilled cod, steamed brown rice, sauteed mushrooms and asparagus; 2 glasses wine
Desert:
2 of my wife's homemade chocolate chip cookies...
so in the context of my overall diet...my chocolate chip cookies @ desert are somehow a detriment? I think your logic is rubbish...
BTW...pretty fit guy here sitting at around 12% BF....
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lovellm122 wrote: »
I always get blasted also when i mention 'clean' eating and avoiding stuff like you mention. Seems everyone loves IIFYM (which i think is rubbish)
So you don't know what IIFYM is? That's what I am getting....0 -
LOL. I'm not gonna get deep into it guys. If you wanna follow that system and it works well for you's and your happy then carry on making the great progress
.... My personal opinion is that we should try and achieve our daily calorie limit and macros from the 'healthiest' sources of produce. Whats better for your body, heart, overall wellbeing, getting your macros from skinless chicken, tuna, spinach, salad, turkey, beets, broccoli; or cake, pizza, chocolate, cheese burgers, pop tarts etc? Its just my belief and its worked more than well for me. dropped 49 pounds of fat within the last 5 months and put 7 pounds of muscle on. I just dont believe in IIFYM or cheat meals and stuff like that. But if it works well for ppl and they are happy then carry on
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lovellm122 wrote: »
I always get blasted also when i mention 'clean' eating and avoiding stuff like you mention. Seems everyone loves IIFYM (which i think is rubbish)
Do you even understand how IIFYM works?? Basically 80 to 90% healthy and 10 to 20% treats, etc.0 -
20% treats isnt for me lol0
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lovellm122 wrote: »LOL. I'm not gonna get deep into it guys. If you wanna follow that system and it works well for you's and your happy then carry on making the great progress
.... My personal opinion is that we should try and achieve our daily calorie limit and macros from the 'healthiest' sources of produce. Whats better for your body, heart, overall wellbeing, getting your macros from skinless chicken, tuna, spinach, salad, turkey, beets, broccoli; or cake, pizza, chocolate, cheese burgers, pop tarts etc? Its just my belief and its worked more than well for me. dropped 49 pounds of fat within the last 5 months and put 7 pounds of muscle on. I just dont believe in IIFYM or cheat meals and stuff like that. But if it works well for ppl and they are happy then carry on
so what you're saying...is that you actually have no fecking clue what you're talking about.....gotcha.
maybe you get blasted because you run your trap without actually knowing what you're talking about...just a thought.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
so what you're saying...is that you actually have no fecking clue what you're talking about.....gotcha.
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lovellm122 wrote: »dropped 49 pounds of fat within the last 5 months and put 7 pounds of muscle on.
Good numbers. I surpassed those numbers in 5 months eating IIFYM...
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lovellm122 wrote: »LOL. I'm not gonna get deep into it guys. If you wanna follow that system and it works well for you's and your happy then carry on making the great progress
.... My personal opinion is that we should try and achieve our daily calorie limit and macros from the 'healthiest' sources of produce. Whats better for your body, heart, overall wellbeing, getting your macros from skinless chicken, tuna, spinach, salad, turkey, beets, broccoli; or cake, pizza, chocolate, cheese burgers, pop tarts etc? Its just my belief and its worked more than well for me. dropped 49 pounds of fat within the last 5 months and put 7 pounds of muscle on. I just dont believe in IIFYM or cheat meals and stuff like that. But if it works well for ppl and they are happy then carry on
Love the high and mighty attitude. /sarcasm
Lost 121 pounds basically doing the IIFYM. Reverse my heart disease doing so and have excellent blood work.0 -
lovellm122 wrote: »LOL. I'm not gonna get deep into it guys. If you wanna follow that system and it works well for you's and your happy then carry on making the great progress
.... My personal opinion is that we should try and achieve our daily calorie limit and macros from the 'healthiest' sources of produce. Whats better for your body, heart, overall wellbeing, getting your macros from skinless chicken, tuna, spinach, salad, turkey, beets, broccoli; or cake, pizza, chocolate, cheese burgers, pop tarts etc? Its just my belief and its worked more than well for me. dropped 49 pounds of fat within the last 5 months and put 7 pounds of muscle on. I just dont believe in IIFYM or cheat meals and stuff like that. But if it works well for ppl and they are happy then carry on
If you believe in hitting your macros from "healthy" food sources then you're still following IIFYM.0
This discussion has been closed.
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