Hello!! Thoughts on the 70% nutrition, 30% gym mentality??
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Here's a few things about exercise.
- people often overestimate the calorie burn from vigorous exercise. One cookie is....what? Twenty minutes of running?
- starting out the dieter might drastically cut their diet AND do two hours in the gym every day. Not only is that unsustainable but they don't get immediate credit. That sudden exercise will swell the muscles from water weight as the shocked body tries to recover. The dieter is justifiably upset that they don't get credit at the scale for their sacrifice.
Far better to be sure the exercise you do is enjoyable because you will be doing it a lot and doing it for life.
Far better to learn to enjoy your food at a much smaller scale than in the past as life is too short to be hating what you eat every day.0 -
@bcalvanese, I don't see anyone attacking you. I'm sorry if you do see responses that way. But, I am going to disagree with you on a few points.
First, I agree that exercise is important. In fact, I never said it wasn't important, I said it's not essential to weight loss or maintaining weight. In fact, I exercise every day if I can, and I fuel my body for that exercise. I am getting ready to go for a run soon because I love to run, it makes me feel great, and the all around benefits are awesome. However, I continue to disagree with this statement:
I don't see where people are saying exercise has not importance at all, because truly it does. But, one can maintain a healthy weight without it if they (1) so choose to or (2) they cannot exercise. There is no either/or in that equation, science is the same for all people.Then, when someone wants to do something about their weight, they come to a forum like this for help only to get a bunch of mumbo jumbo backward advice telling them that they don't need to exercise at all to lose and maintain a healthy weight, and that exercise has little or no importance at all.
As a kid, I did all the things you mention, so why was I a fat kid?In my generation, we didn't have technology. We rode our bikes everywhere, built forts in the woods, went swimming at the creek, and were never home sitting on the couch playing with our technology.
Well, it's because I ate more than my brothers and my skinny friends, even though we all played together for hours on end. They all knew one cookie was enough, I never did. Don't blame my parents
, they tried to teach me how to eat well, but I found ways to eat food when they were not around.
Well, I think that's what many of us are fighting by showing through example. It's the extremes that get us into trouble.I can see a day when obesity becomes the new norm, and the healthy kids will be made fun of.
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That points already been made but shes equally at fault in terms of raising irrelevant points and failing to answer the questions put to her or drawing conclusions that just arent there.
Why not agree what the relevant questions to be answered are and then work through the points one by one or its just chaos.
Why are you trying to assign fault and control how people respond?0 -
That points already been made but shes equally at fault in terms of raising irrelevant points and failing to answer the questions put to her or drawing conclusions that just arent there.
Why not agree what the relevant questions to be answered are and then work through the points one by one or its just chaos.
Why are you trying to assign fault, and why are you trying to control how people respond?
Why not just stick to the question and answer the points. You were the one that started picking up on other people.
Controlling how people respons. It would be nice for the purpose of discussion if the questions were agreed and answered in turn so the discussion could go somewhere instead of the chaos of strawmen arguments you seem to prefer. Where its inconvenient you you, then you just ignore it.
Why not give us a summary of the points you have made and then people can respond.0 -
That points already been made but shes equally at fault in terms of raising irrelevant points and failing to answer the questions put to her or drawing conclusions that just arent there.
Why not agree what the relevant questions to be answered are and then work through the points one by one or its just chaos.
Why are you trying to assign fault, and why are you trying to control how people respond?
Why not just stick to the question and answer the points. You were the one that started picking up on other people.
Controlling how people respons. It would be nice for the piprose of discussion if the questions were agreed and answered in turn so the discussion could go somewhere instead of the chaos of strawmen arguments you seem to prefer. Where its inconvenient you you, then you just ignore it.
Picking up on other peope? LOL.
I'm trying to discuss like everyone else.
I'm sorry, but you don't get to decide how a conversatin is conducted. The strawman is in your perception of what a discussion should look like.
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That points already been made but shes equally at fault in terms of raising irrelevant points and failing to answer the questions put to her or drawing conclusions that just arent there.
Why not agree what the relevant questions to be answered are and then work through the points one by one or its just chaos.
Why are you trying to assign fault, and why are you trying to control how people respond?
Why not just stick to the question and answer the points. You were the one that started picking up on other people.
Controlling how people respons. It would be nice for the purpose of discussion if the questions were agreed and answered in turn so the discussion could go somewhere instead of the chaos of strawmen arguments you seem to prefer. Where its inconvenient you you, then you just ignore it.
Why not give us a summary of the points you have made and then people can respond.
Oh, how funny. I just read through the thread to catch up and saw you and another poster consistently tearing down others. Hmmm....
The point that gets made consistently, and gets attacked by you (in this and other threads, I've seen you do it repeatedly), is that exercise is not necessary for weight loss. It can be a useful tool for weight loss. This point gets made, and then you come along and make some ridiculous argument (along with the other poster) about how weight has to include some form of exercise.
It's just ridiculous to continue to argue this same point, over and over, ad nauseum. Yes, exercise is helpful for weight loss, and important for fitness. No, it's not necessary.
I, personally, am living proof that this is true. I've lost weight without exercise and maintained that weight loss without exercise.0 -
. This point gets made, and then you come along and make some ridiculous argument (along with the other poster) about how weight has to include some form of exercise.
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A complete lie. I have NEVER made that point because its not true. Carry on making things up or come back and prove where ive said that.
Your the one that keeps making the point even though its never been disputed and not even the thing being discussed.0 -
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It is my experience in the second year of weight loss and body recomposition is that a lifestyle change that sticks... That is what matters.
Long term changes like taking up cycling and lifting have helped me.
Diet is part of it obviously. But being more active is a lifestyle change that is good for weight and fitness.
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Nah no thanks it would be nice if a discussion made progress though instead of going round in circles and not getting anywhere. If someone poses a question im interested in finding the answer.UltimateRBF wrote: »Why don't you apply to be a MFP moderator since youre so interested in policing what people say and how they say it.
Its standard to identify what the issues are, what you already agree on and then to work through the other issues. I was just asking for an update.
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Eat to lose weight. Exercise to gain strength.0
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derekspiewak wrote: »Eat to lose weight. Exercise to gain strength.
Trolly troll is trolling!
Eating adds weight. Exercise burns weight.
Weight gain happens in the kitchen.
#alltrue
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In those days it was called a woody. <nods>bcalvanese wrote: »In my generation, we didn't have technology. We rode our bikes everywhere, built forts in the woods, went swimming at the creek, and were never home sitting on the couch playing with our technology.
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derekspiewak wrote: »Eat to lose weight. Exercise to gain strength.
Trolly troll is trolling!
Eating adds weight. Exercise burns weight.
Weight gain happens in the kitchen.
#alltrue
Ah, not likely. Control over weight happens in the kitchen, as in what you put into your mouth. Exercise burns calories, but not enough to make any difference over bad habits.
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But if you're talking about weight loss, diet will ALWAYS trump exercise. One doesn't need to exercise to lose weight, but one doesn't lose weight with exercise if they exceed how much they burn everyday.rainbowbow wrote: »I don't like it when i hear this. It's my opinion, that you should be putting 100% effort into both your diet and exercise goals. Both are equally important to me.
1.) for my fitness
1.) for my weight management
The 70/30 or 80/20 makes it seem like one is less important than the other for my overall health.
I don't disagree that one should do both, but both aren't needed together for weight loss.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I have to point out that I was not talking about weight loss just general health.
As to the other who said 200% I don't understand how you could possibly get that. In my mind I am eating a calorie deficit/surplus/etc. to maintain my weight as i said. What determines my weight is what I am EATING. I exercise for my overall health, and nothing else.
Both are equally important and one shouldn't disregard the other JUST because of the outcome of total body weight. Regardless of how much I weigh, I workout because it's important to keep my muscles/bones/body in good health.
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What determines my weight is what I am EATING.rainbowbow wrote: »
[/quote]
I thought what determined your weight was whether you are at deficit or not?0 -
Ok here's my story...
I lost the bulk of my weight doing zero exercise. I lost 24lbs in 4mths doing alternate day fasting. In the beginning it was easy to eat very low calories every second day, but eventually I just couldn't do it anymore... So I reverted to normal daily calorie counting. But I was struggling to keep my calories just right every single day, which is when I started exercising, this allowed me to eat more.
Long story short... No, exercise is not imperative to lose weight, but if you're like me then exercise helps immensely. I find it really hard to stick to 1200-1400 gross calories a day, so I have to exercise so I can earn more calories.
So, if someone easily sticks to mfp's calorie goal, then they can choose to exercise or not, they'll lose weight either way. But if they lack willpower, like myself, then exercising will help them a lot to feel like they are not hungry 24/7, because they get to eat a bit more.0 -
I think what people are saying is NOT that you can't create a deficit from working out (although at first when one could be losing, say, 2 lb/week, it is unlikely that the fitness level is such that one could get the whole deficit that way -- I currently am trying to do .5-1 lb/week with just exercise and it's harder than focusing on cutting calories was, as I tend to get hungrier when I have huge burns--like today when I biked 70 miles).
Instead, that even if you choose to get your burn from working out, that most people who have become overweight will ALSO have to do something to control intake. It might be cutting calories, it might simply be making sure you don't increase calories. It could be logging/weighing and could be portion control. But leaving out the intake side entirely usually means you don't lose (and this is why there are tons of stories of people gaining weight training for a marathon). Leaving out exercise -- while not desirable for most, IMO -- doesn't have the same effect.
That said, I don't understand the efforts to quantify it as 70% or 80% and psychologically I find exercise at least as important.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »That said, I don't understand the efforts to quantify it as 70% or 80% and psychologically I find exercise at least as important.
Same, I think it's reinforcing in a few ways0 -
Here is what the CDC says about exercise for a healthy weight...
cdc.gov/healthyweight/physical_activity/index.html
I guess they are wrong too.0 -
bcalvanese wrote: »Here is what the CDC says about exercise for a healthy weight...
cdc.gov/healthyweight/physical_activity/index.html
I guess they are wrong too.
Them saying "the only way to maintain weight loss is exercise" is actually just wrong, yes. Good catch on that.0 -
Mmmm well this is exactly the kind of MFP postings that lead to me abandoning the main boards ages ago and only using a small interest group forum...! I won't be coming back again for a while, even if all this silly argument nonsense is so laughable.
Anyway - I just thought I'd tell you about a recent visit to the beach. Pretty much all the people up by the beach huts were doing BBQs and picnics and pretty much all were overweight. About 20 yards further walk into the sand there was less eating, and less obesity. Another 30 yards or so further into the beach towards the sea mainly slim people were playing beach ball games. No great big picnic coolers, may be just some sandwich bags. And a further 20 yards or so more of walking, and pretty much everyone actually playing in the sea was slim.
Not sure it tells us much causality wise - but it was striking. My interpretation was the fittest (both senses of the word) people were clearly doing both - fun excercise, and proportionate eating. Maybe the sea swimmers were big BBQ eaters too, just good at burning it off. Maybe they only had hummus sandwiches. Who knows....
I cannot imagine the OP is still around on this thread. But we all have to find the % excercise / food balance that works for us. What 'ratio' is going to depend on what and how much you like to eat, and what exercise you manage or even like to do....ie your own preferences and strengths / challenges. So we find our personal sustainable way of losing/maintaining.
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derekspiewak wrote: »Eat to lose weight. Exercise to gain strength.
Trolly troll is trolling!
Eating adds weight. Exercise burns weight.
Weight gain happens in the kitchen.
#alltrue
Ah, not likely. Control over weight happens in the kitchen, as in what you put into your mouth. Exercise burns calories, but not enough to make any difference over bad habits.
No qualms there. Just trying to come up with some new axioms to counter the ones I don't like.
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