Deep sleep, stress, and melatonin in cherries

ForecasterJason
ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
in Food and Nutrition
I wasn't sure what section to put this thread, but hopefully this is not in a bad spot.

I don't know how common this is, but I seem to struggle with getting into a deep sleep. I do think I usually sleep long enough; according to my Fitbit I get about 7.0-7.5 hours a night and my efficiency is generally around 88-96%. I generally go to bed at a similar time each day and wake up naturally. But most of the time I hardly ever wake up feeling fully refreshed, as over the course of the day I'll feel tired. There have been a few rare days over the past year or so that I've slept very well. I had more energy and I could tell my stress level was automatically lowered. The only variable that I can tell with my lifestyle that was different in those instances was that my stress level happened to have been lower on those days that preceded those nights. (What I find interesting though is that the lack of stress on those days happened to have occurred naturally without consciously trying to do so.)

I am under some constant stress from school, which I suspect is a major factor. I know exercise is often supposed to help, but in times when I've increased my activity level for some time (at one point from cardio and another time from having a physically active job), the results were inconsistent.

I'm trying to do as much as I can through natural means before turning to supplements. My diet is mostly balanced, with generous amounts of whole grains, fruit, some dairy, some vegetables (although I could do with more), and some low nutrient dense foods like chips and cookies. I know melatonin is supposed to help with sleep, although I already so some things that should have my levels elevated (like sleeping in almost complete darkness and getting some exposure to natural light.) I have read that tart Montmorency cherries are a rich source of melatonin. I already get these cherries dried, but what I don't know is how much of these dried ones I would need to eat to make a difference. Also, I don't even know if raising my melatonin levels would do much good if stress can override this.

Thoughts on whether the natural melatonin is worth pursuing, or should I really focus more on stress-reduction techniques?

Replies

  • barbecuesauce
    barbecuesauce Posts: 1,771 Member
    edited August 2015
    Why not both?
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
    barbecuesauce wrote: »
    Why not both?
    I think it is a good idea, but like I mentioned I'm not sure how many dried cherries I would need. According to this source roughly 190 cherries would certainly be enough, but I'm not sure what the equivalent would be for dried ones. So, I would like some guidance on this, as 190 dried cherries seems like an extraordinary amount.
  • Kalikel
    Kalikel Posts: 9,603 Member
    I used to use melatonin to fight jet lag. That was back before Ambien, Lunesta and the rest.

    I never took it for long periods, though, and I got approved to take it. It was helpful!
  • hurleycutie142
    hurleycutie142 Posts: 479 Member
    I have the same issue as u... no matter how much i sleep or how much i try to wake up within certain hours im always tired... please let me know how it goes...
  • barbecuesauce
    barbecuesauce Posts: 1,771 Member
    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    barbecuesauce wrote: »
    Why not both?
    I think it is a good idea, but like I mentioned I'm not sure how many dried cherries I would need. According to this source roughly 190 cherries would certainly be enough, but I'm not sure what the equivalent would be for dried ones. So, I would like some guidance on this, as 190 dried cherries seems like an extraordinary amount.

    I might be confusing you for someone else, but haven't I seen you posting about restricting sugar before? 190 cherries has 982 calories and 200 grams of sugar.
  • barbecuesauce
    barbecuesauce Posts: 1,771 Member
    Those figures are for fresh, btw
  • editorgrrl
    editorgrrl Posts: 7,060 Member
    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    I generally go to bed at a similar time each day and wake up naturally. But most of the time I hardly ever wake up feeling fully refreshed, as over the course of the day I'll feel tired.

    I have read that tart Montmorency cherries are a rich source of melatonin. I already get these cherries dried, but what I don't know is how much of these dried ones I would need to eat to make a difference. Also, I don't even know if raising my melatonin levels would do much good if stress can override this.

    Thoughts on whether the natural melatonin is worth pursuing, or should I really focus more on stress-reduction techniques?

    Talk to your doctor(s). Have your iron, vitamin B12, vitamin D, and insulin checked. If necessary, get a referral to a sleep study.

    Fatigue has 101 causes. Don't ask strangers in the Internet about self-medicating with dried cherries. And if your real problem is stress, please see a therapist.

    FYI, melatonin (the supplement, not cherries) gave me crazy dreams. But a mindfulness meditation class improved my sleep. YMMV.
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
    barbecuesauce wrote: »
    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    barbecuesauce wrote: »
    Why not both?
    I think it is a good idea, but like I mentioned I'm not sure how many dried cherries I would need. According to this source roughly 190 cherries would certainly be enough, but I'm not sure what the equivalent would be for dried ones. So, I would like some guidance on this, as 190 dried cherries seems like an extraordinary amount.

    I might be confusing you for someone else, but haven't I seen you posting about restricting sugar before? 190 cherries has 982 calories and 200 grams of sugar.
    The sugar content for that amount does concern me.

  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
    edited October 2015
    So, I've mostly fixed the issue without focusing on either options. The solution I've found is to move my legs a lot. It appears as though the nearly 7,000 steps a day that I was doing over the summer with my job was just not enough. Earlier this fall I started to get in at least 10,000 steps a day (spread out over the course of the day) and that seems to have done the trick. This includes walking at a good pace for around 45-60 minutes a day (sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less). (Incidentally, getting into a deeper sleep usually puts my stress level at a minimum upon waking, something that was missing before). I will say though, my sleep is not at the level it was during my early childhood, and my energy level is still not as high as it was then. But this seems to be the best that I've done in the past 5-6 years (going back to age 15).

    @hurleycutie142
  • totustuusmaria
    totustuusmaria Posts: 182 Member
    I have used Kava in the past to help relax/relieve stress as I am laying down to sleep. You can get Kava tea or liquid kava (I put a little of the liquid kava in the kava tea). It works.
  • totustuusmaria
    totustuusmaria Posts: 182 Member
    ^^ wrote this because I have tried melatonin supplements in the past and they just didn't work for me. But, Kava did/does. Do not use too often (used it much more in the beginning), but if I am really having a tough time sleeping, Kava is where I go. Also, it is natural.
  • V_Keto_V
    V_Keto_V Posts: 342 Member
    Just use a melatonin (liquid preferably) 3-5mg 15 min prior to sleep...no wandering around or anything...dose it then lie in bed. Preferably on an empty stomach as fatty food delays absorption (just as zolpidem & eszopiclone). Melatonin is more so helpful with inducing sleep rather than keeping you asleep (maintenance). It's not recommended for use in those with epilepsy/seizures or autoimmune diseases since it is an immunostimulant & inconsistently lowers OR raises the seizure threshold (mixed results in epilepsy).

    Very few adverse reactions with Melatonin; mostly enuresis, morning somnolence, & very rare instances of lowering testosterone & affecting cortisol.

    I find that just sleeping to my heart's content once or twice a week is useful for feeling less fatigued...by this I mean go to sleep when you feel the need to & sleep as long as you naturally would meaning no alarm clocks. 15+ hours of sleep is sometimes the usual for me on these days
  • amberlyda1
    amberlyda1 Posts: 154 Member
    I take melatonin supplements when I have bouts of sleepless nights. I wanted to do the cherry juice but a) its exensive and B) it has a ton of sugar.
    When you take it you still need to be resting within an hour or so. My routine it a cup of tea, a melatonin and a dark room/ low lights. Try to stay off the computer etc. It really helps me stay asleep as I am a super light sleeper. I wake up feeling great, no "hangovers".

    One side affect I noticed though; sometimes I get really weird vivid dreams. Nothing too crazy, but weird.
  • caseylizbeth
    caseylizbeth Posts: 112 Member
    I used to suffer from pretty bad insomnia and I tend to work varying work schedules so occasionally my sleep gets thrown way out of whack. I use melatonin when that happens. I've noticed that if I'm having repeated cases of sleeplessness that if I use melatonin for a week my sleep schedule kind of "resets" itself and I no longer need it. I have noticed though that I can become dependent on it though so I avoid using it unless I have an ongoing sleep problem. If I have a night where I just can't sleep I like having a cup of night-time or chamomile tea and snacking on some cherries (I buy frozen cherries and will make a smoothie/sorbet with around a half-cup of them and some water, or I keep dried cherries on hand and I will snack on a 1/4 cup of those.)
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
    Out of curiosity, do any of you take magnesium?
  • SamandaIndia
    SamandaIndia Posts: 1,577 Member
    Sleepy time tea is also relaxing for me. Relaxation like yoga, meditation and doing a lot of day time walking. As a complete non dietary related idea: statistically, overweight people are much more likely to suffer from sleep apnoea. As someone mentioned, doing a sleep study can help. Allergens like dust mites can cause folk to breathe less well and wake up fatigued. Complex issue so if you still struggle then finding a good doctor can really help.

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