Fitness and Diet Should Not Have a Time Limit
Packerjohn
Posts: 4,855 Member
Interesting points from an article by Dean Somerset (a well respected trainer)
http://deansomerset.com/34-things-learned-from-20-years-of-lifting-part-1/
I see a lot of people look to do 30 day challenges, or 6 week boot camps, and I guess that’s cool to get some different perspectives, but after those timelines are complete, what comes next? Often people will go hard on a concept or in a class and then do nothing to recover from it for a couple of weeks. There’s nothing wrong with this, but it’s rarely ever as productive as people would like.
In many ways, fitness should be viewed as a long-term concept, much like saving for retirement. Going hard and putting as much into retirement savings for a short period while leaving you broke during that timeframe may be mildly productive, but is a benefit you likely won’t reap for a long time. Instead, consistent effort to invest time in the gym over the span of years, not weeks or days, will tend to yield the best results. Ask anyone who has a body that looks like they’ve put a lot of work into it and they’ll rarely say “Oh, I got this way after I did a 30 day challenge last month. It really works!!” They’ll likely tell you it’s been something they’ve worked at consistently for years, sometimes decades.
You could also say the same thing about nutrition. Instead of looking for a 10 day detox or cleanse, just eat right for about 90% of your meals for the next week or two, and you’ll be at or ahead of any point that a cleanse would get you to, and you won’t get all hypoglycemic and wear out your toilet in the process.
http://deansomerset.com/34-things-learned-from-20-years-of-lifting-part-1/
I see a lot of people look to do 30 day challenges, or 6 week boot camps, and I guess that’s cool to get some different perspectives, but after those timelines are complete, what comes next? Often people will go hard on a concept or in a class and then do nothing to recover from it for a couple of weeks. There’s nothing wrong with this, but it’s rarely ever as productive as people would like.
In many ways, fitness should be viewed as a long-term concept, much like saving for retirement. Going hard and putting as much into retirement savings for a short period while leaving you broke during that timeframe may be mildly productive, but is a benefit you likely won’t reap for a long time. Instead, consistent effort to invest time in the gym over the span of years, not weeks or days, will tend to yield the best results. Ask anyone who has a body that looks like they’ve put a lot of work into it and they’ll rarely say “Oh, I got this way after I did a 30 day challenge last month. It really works!!” They’ll likely tell you it’s been something they’ve worked at consistently for years, sometimes decades.
You could also say the same thing about nutrition. Instead of looking for a 10 day detox or cleanse, just eat right for about 90% of your meals for the next week or two, and you’ll be at or ahead of any point that a cleanse would get you to, and you won’t get all hypoglycemic and wear out your toilet in the process.
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Hahaha! Funny, and good advice!
I haven't got a set date to reach my goal weight. It'll happen at some point after I've been continuing to lose weight at the recommended rate. My goal is making logging a way of life for the rest of my life, or at least develop super-accurate caloric awareness.
With exercise, my goal is to beat my personal best at least once a month and to do more hiking.
What are everyone's goals?0 -
Agree - only thing is that the first month of fitness, for a sedentary person, is hard, and not in the same way that it is for a fit person who is challenging themselves. CV system, muscle, connective tissue - all of it's usually out of whack, unconditioned, uncoordinated. Some might think it'll always feel as hard as it does the first time they get winded on an elliptical - which might happen after 5 minutes, for some people. Looking at a long stretch of feeling crappy isn't motivating, and neither is feeling like you're bad at what you're doing. So structured challenges or programs like that might help people find a way in, after which they'll often naturally want to do more (because by then they're acclimated and are getting more immediate rewards). Then they'll look to a longer-term approach. Jillian Micheal's 30 Day Shred got me started, and I'm not embarrassed to say so
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Right, those challenges & camps are not a long-term solution, but do act as a much-needed kick-start to either begin a longer-term program, or to change up some stale routines. I guess some people do look at it as an end-point instead of a start-point -- usually to their detriment. That's why I like MFP -- it's meant to be a permanent way of life, not a quick fix-it.0
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What comes next is another workout and then another. I have done the 30 day shred, squat challenge, ab challenge, fitness blender 5 day workout for busy people, and so on.I like challenges and sometimes are done with my real life friends.0
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Most people are more motivated to do something if they have a concrete goal at the end to achieve. Most people would see a long-term, possibly lifetime, commitment to health/fitness to be a bit daunting or intimidating, which can make them unwilling to actually get started. In the other hand, most people don't see 30 days as a terribly long time, which makes commuting to that program for however long it is seem much more doable. I agree with you that it seems kind of stupid to go through all that trouble if you're just going to revert back to your old ways, but I see why people do that.0
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Packerjohn wrote: »You could also say the same thing about nutrition. Instead of looking for a 10 day detox or cleanse, just eat right for about 90% of your meals for the next week or two, and you’ll be at or ahead of any point that a cleanse would get you to, and you won’t get all hypoglycemic and wear out your toilet in the process.
Agreed (and I dislike cleanses because I think they are pointless and unhealthy), but sometimes you need incentive to get started on a habit or to teach yourself that a change is possible.
I'm doing an MFP challenge now (HP) where the prelogging component is one that doesn't help me -- I did it for a while, but now plan in my head really well. But for someone new to MFP that might be great and very helpful to learn and get in the habit. I tend to set weekly and monthly goals for myself still, as something to focus on.0 -
Strawblackcat wrote: »Most people are more motivated to do something if they have a concrete goal at the end to achieve. Most people would see a long-term, possibly lifetime, commitment to health/fitness to be a bit daunting or intimidating, which can make them unwilling to actually get started. In the other hand, most people don't see 30 days as a terribly long time, which makes commuting to that program for however long it is seem much more doable. I agree with you that it seems kind of stupid to go through all that trouble if you're just going to revert back to your old ways, but I see why people do that.
I agree with this, I have done challenges only cos I want to prove that I can get through the 30 days. I make sure breaks are included so not killing myself. Once done I find my next workout. I am under no illusions miracles will happen after 30 days.0 -
My exercise is only walking and a bit of jog in between. I only do this because I know is the only exercise that I can keep going of rest of my life as long I am able with out getting bored. All kind of exercise are all good but if you can keep up so whats the point.0
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I am 50 yrs old and be 51 soon in about three months time. I like just a relaxing exercise with fresh air.0
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I don't understand the concept of a lifestyle change because it typically isn't a 1 time change. For example I am attempting to lose weight, so I had to change my lifestyle; to do that but when I reach my goal weight, my lifestyle won't still be to lose weight; it'll be to maintain the weight that I've lost & thus I'll have to change my lifestyle again, from losing to maintaining. If I become pregnant, it'll change again, to gaining. When I have the baby(ies), it'll change again; to losing & then again to maintaining. I believe that the term "lifestyle change" is confusing for many people because they just don't seem to realize, that it's actually plural. As your wants/needs change, your lifestyle must also; every single time!0
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Packerjohn wrote: »Interesting points from an article by Dean Somerset (a well respected trainer)
http://deansomerset.com/34-things-learned-from-20-years-of-lifting-part-1/
I see a lot of people look to do 30 day challenges, or 6 week boot camps, and I guess that’s cool to get some different perspectives, but after those timelines are complete, what comes next? Often people will go hard on a concept or in a class and then do nothing to recover from it for a couple of weeks. There’s nothing wrong with this, but it’s rarely ever as productive as people would like.
In many ways, fitness should be viewed as a long-term concept, much like saving for retirement. Going hard and putting as much into retirement savings for a short period while leaving you broke during that timeframe may be mildly productive, but is a benefit you likely won’t reap for a long time. Instead, consistent effort to invest time in the gym over the span of years, not weeks or days, will tend to yield the best results. Ask anyone who has a body that looks like they’ve put a lot of work into it and they’ll rarely say “Oh, I got this way after I did a 30 day challenge last month. It really works!!” They’ll likely tell you it’s been something they’ve worked at consistently for years, sometimes decades.
You could also say the same thing about nutrition. Instead of looking for a 10 day detox or cleanse, just eat right for about 90% of your meals for the next week or two, and you’ll be at or ahead of any point that a cleanse would get you to, and you won’t get all hypoglycemic and wear out your toilet in the process.
You give great advice. Lifestyle changes equals sustainable longevity.
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MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »I don't understand the concept of a lifestyle change because it typically isn't a 1 time change. For example I am attempting to lose weight, so I had to change my lifestyle; to do that but when I reach my goal weight, my lifestyle won't still be to lose weight; it'll be to maintain the weight that I've lost & thus I'll have to change my lifestyle again, from losing to maintaining. If I become pregnant, it'll change again, to gaining. When I have the baby(ies), it'll change again; to losing & then again to maintaining. I believe that the term "lifestyle change" is confusing for many people because they just don't seem to realize, that it's actually plural. As your wants/needs change, your lifestyle must also; every single time.
I don't use the term at all but understand the concept. In all those scenarios you mentioned you will still eat in moderation and try and stay active.0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »I don't understand the concept of a lifestyle change because it typically isn't a 1 time change. For example I am attempting to lose weight, so I had to change my lifestyle; to do that but when I reach my goal weight, my lifestyle won't still be to lose weight; it'll be to maintain the weight that I've lost & thus I'll have to change my lifestyle again, from losing to maintaining. If I become pregnant, it'll change again, to gaining. When I have the baby(ies), it'll change again; to losing & then again to maintaining. I believe that the term "lifestyle change" is confusing for many people because they just don't seem to realize, that it's actually plural. As your wants/needs change, your lifestyle must also; every single time.
I don't use the term at all but understand the concept. In all those scenarios you mentioned you will still eat in moderation and try and stay active.
Of course but the moderation changes & thus the fitness/nutrition aspects of it does as well, hence why it's a plural rather than; a singular concept.0 -
I hate hearing about diets with a number of days attached them. The 17-day diet (if it's so great, why don't you just do it forever? What do you accomplish in 17 days?), the 21-day fix (admittedly not a bad diet plan overall, but why all the stopping and starting? Again, just do it forever, or else you haven't actually fixed anything), and the 24-day challenge (Advocare. Starts with a cleanse, then supplements out the wazoo. I can see how it'd be a challenge for anyone, but what long-term gain do you get from your pain?).0
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PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »I hate hearing about diets with a number of days attached them. The 17-day diet (if it's so great, why don't you just do it forever? What do you accomplish in 17 days?), the 21-day fix (admittedly not a bad diet plan overall, but why all the stopping and starting? Again, just do it forever, or else you haven't actually fixed anything), and the 24-day challenge (Advocare. Starts with a cleanse, then supplements out the wazoo. I can see how it'd be a challenge for anyone, but what long-term gain do you get from your pain?).
Ha they can't do it forever it's too expensive0 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »I hate hearing about diets with a number of days attached them. The 17-day diet (if it's so great, why don't you just do it forever? What do you accomplish in 17 days?), the 21-day fix (admittedly not a bad diet plan overall, but why all the stopping and starting? Again, just do it forever, or else you haven't actually fixed anything), and the 24-day challenge (Advocare. Starts with a cleanse, then supplements out the wazoo. I can see how it'd be a challenge for anyone, but what long-term gain do you get from your pain?).
Simple these companies only want them to lose some of the weight & then gain it all back, plus more; so that they are lifetime customers instead of 1 time consumers. These companies wouldn't continue to exist, if everyone that lost the weight using their products; kept the weight off indefinitely.0 -
Well, the 17-day diet is just a book, and the 21-day fix... forgive my ignorance, but all I know about it is that it uses expensive tupperware. Then Advocare... Well, it's Advocare.0
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Completely agree with you!
I don't visit the 'motivation and support' section because it is RIFE with '25 day challenges' or '30 DAY SHRED' or whatever. I understand the reasoning behind it - some people need that added motivation but you just know that once those 25 or so days are over, it's back to old habits and seeking 'accountability buddies' and looking out for the next "17 day tone" plan. I just feel tired FOR them! I would never participate in a 'challenge', it turns this process into too much of a game show - this is our long term health we are talking about!0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »What comes next is another workout and then another. I have done the 30 day shred, squat challenge, ab challenge, fitness blender 5 day workout for busy people, and so on.I like challenges and sometimes are done with my real life friends.
Nice counterpoint to the argument! It's not "one quick fix and it's over", it can be lots of different goals as time goes on.
And well done on your achievement!
I'm enjoying this topic. Lots of good points all round.0 -
PinkPixiexox wrote: »Completely agree with you!
I don't visit the 'motivation and support' section because it is RIFE with '25 day challenges' or '30 DAY SHRED' or whatever. I understand the reasoning behind it - some people need that added motivation but you just know that once those 25 or so days are over, it's back to old habits and seeking 'accountability buddies' and looking out for the next "17 day tone" plan. I just feel tired FOR them! I would never participate in a 'challenge', it turns this process into too much of a game show - this is our long term health we are talking about!
I disagree. It depends on your mindset when you start out. I was ready to make the change. I did the 30 day shred and have no regrets. It was my start to getting off my sofa and showing me how unfit I was at the time. I revisted it after one year and I had so improved my fitness. I was such a coach potato before but something in me has changed which does amuse me. Accountability buddies understand it but don't need it. We are in this alone but nice to have a site where we can discuss, get new ideas and talk all day long without boring people.0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »What comes next is another workout and then another. I have done the 30 day shred, squat challenge, ab challenge, fitness blender 5 day workout for busy people, and so on.I like challenges and sometimes are done with my real life friends.
Nice counterpoint to the argument! It's not "one quick fix and it's over", it can be lots of different goals as time goes on.
And well done on your achievement!
I'm enjoying this topic. Lots of good points all round.
thank you.
I think i understand why these challenges get bad press, its because there are loads of people who think after 30 days they will be shredded. its not going to happen. It does not happen and they go back to the sofa.
anything to do with cleanses, etc, i dont agree with.0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »What comes next is another workout and then another. I have done the 30 day shred, squat challenge, ab challenge, fitness blender 5 day workout for busy people, and so on.I like challenges and sometimes are done with my real life friends.
Nice counterpoint to the argument! It's not "one quick fix and it's over", it can be lots of different goals as time goes on.
And well done on your achievement!
I'm enjoying this topic. Lots of good points all round.
thank you.
I think i understand why these challenges get bad press, its because there are loads of people who think after 30 days they will be shredded. its not going to happen. It does not happen and they go back to the sofa.
anything to do with cleanses, etc, i dont agree with.
Ditto on the cleanses! And you're right about the people who finish X days then quit.
Then of course there are those who can't even finish the full X days!0 -
MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »I don't understand the concept of a lifestyle change because it typically isn't a 1 time change.
Sorry but I don't buy your examples.
In each case the lifestyle change occurred only once: when the individual internalized that their body needs only X calories for Y activity and that weight can be controlled by making X=Y or X<Y or X>Y. The real change is that they did something about it.
The person who moves from weight loss to maintenance isn't undergoing another lifestyle change. That person is fully aware of how caloric imbalance will affect them thus moving to maintenance isn't a whole new order but a relatively minor alteration of what they have already practised and know.
The new mother certainly is facing a lifestyle change but that's entirely due to having a child in her life!
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PinkPixiexox wrote: »Completely agree with you!
I don't visit the 'motivation and support' section because it is RIFE with '25 day challenges' or '30 DAY SHRED' or whatever. I understand the reasoning behind it - some people need that added motivation but you just know that once those 25 or so days are over, it's back to old habits and seeking 'accountability buddies' and looking out for the next "17 day tone" plan. I just feel tired FOR them! I would never participate in a 'challenge', it turns this process into too much of a game show - this is our long term health we are talking about!
Well, like I said, I started with the 30DS, and it set me on a path to fitness that's lasted coming up on five years, and took me through all kinds of fun stuff (running, though wouldn't do that again, swimming, skiing, weightlifting). Weight dropped and has stayed gone except for a slight regain (injury).
The genius of that DVD is that it's chunked (short intervals, nothing hurts for too long) and staged to be totally manageable for a (healthy) sedentary person, and it's short (30 mins, or slightly longer), so it's not overwhelming and is easy for most people to fit into their schedules.0 -
MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »I don't understand the concept of a lifestyle change because it typically isn't a 1 time change.
Sorry but I don't buy your examples.
In each case the lifestyle change occurred only once: when the individual internalized that their body needs only X calories for Y activity and that weight can be controlled by making X=Y or X<Y or X>Y. The real change is that they did something about it.
The person who moves from weight loss to maintenance isn't undergoing another lifestyle change. That person is fully aware of how caloric imbalance will affect them thus moving to maintenance isn't a whole new order but a relatively minor alteration of what they have already practised and know.
The new mother certainly is facing a lifestyle change but that's entirely due to having a child in her life!
Yes and no. Maintenance is mostly more of the same, if nothing else changes, but you do have to make sometimes significant adjustments after say illness or injury. If exercise helps regulate your appetite, for example, and you can't rely on that anymore (or the burns), you have to plan and eat sometimes very differently.0 -
Please note: IN NO way did I mean to offend by my comment about the time limit challenges. That is absolutely not my style so please accept my apologies if I cause any offence. I didn't phrase it as I probably should have.
I can 100% accept that these X days challenges CAN and DO work for a LOT of people. The motivation aspect is fantastic and I assume they are set up to encourage first of all - in hopes that once those X amount of days is complete, your habits will naturally continue. IF you go about this the right way - then fantastic and kudos to whoever came up with the idea.
I think my issue was with the people seeking challenges, losing a good amount of weight and then - in their words - 'falling off the wagon and needing to get back on'. I don't think time limit challenges are suitable for a wide variety of people. But ARE suitable for MANY.0 -
Whilst i do see people doing 30 day challenges theres nothing wrong with that because it breaks it down into a manageable chunk. The article isnt written about MFP. If you want to say detox diets are a waste of time and think long term, then thats the consensus on MFP, which is why you see people banging on about lifesyle change.
Theres nothing wrong with a 30 day challenge if thats all you can manage, then maybe after the 30 days you can do another challenge. Its nice to think long term, but not everyone can manage that so they take it one pound at a time. It might not be as efficient, but it works for some people.0 -
PinkPixiexox wrote: »Please note: IN NO way did I mean to offend by my comment about the time limit challenges. That is absolutely not my style so please accept my apologies if I cause any offence. I didn't phrase it as I probably should have.
I can 100% accept that these X days challenges CAN and DO work for a LOT of people. The motivation aspect is fantastic and I assume they are set up to encourage first of all - in hopes that once those X amount of days is complete, your habits will naturally continue. IF you go about this the right way - then fantastic and kudos to whoever came up with the idea.
I think my issue was with the people seeking challenges, losing a good amount of weight and then - in their words - 'falling off the wagon and needing to get back on'. I don't think time limit challenges are suitable for a wide variety of people. But ARE suitable for MANY.
No offense taken Some start and stop, and for some, when they stop, it's because they didn't take a long-term perspective. I think for many, life just gets in the way (babies, stressful life situations, poor health). I was certain I'd never regain more than 5 lbs. I didn't vary much at all for a long while, too! But stuff just happens, you know?
That said, definitely better to focus on the long haul.0 -
MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »I don't understand the concept of a lifestyle change because it typically isn't a 1 time change.
Sorry but I don't buy your examples.
In each case the lifestyle change occurred only once: when the individual internalized that their body needs only X calories for Y activity and that weight can be controlled by making X=Y or X<Y or X>Y. The real change is that they did something about it.
The person who moves from weight loss to maintenance isn't undergoing another lifestyle change. That person is fully aware of how caloric imbalance will affect them thus moving to maintenance isn't a whole new order but a relatively minor alteration of what they have already practised and know.
The new mother certainly is facing a lifestyle change but that's entirely due to having a child in her life!
However you proved my point, that this all involves changes; no matter the significance. So what if one's maintenance Calories are only 100 more; than their weight loss Calories; it's still a change. I have read many threads, in which either consuming that extra 100 Calories; to even be within their healthy deficit or going over just 100 Calories of their deficit is a constant problem. So obviously especially for a person, whom isn't hungry enough to even meet their healthy deficit; their going to have more of a challenging time trying to maintain. Also even if each of those changes, only occurs once, it's still more than 1 total change.0
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