When exercising how does the body distinguish which calorie to burn off?
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Weight loss: a calorie is a calorie.TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
For the purposes of energy, a calorie is a calorie. But I suspect you knew that. Plus, it has the benefit of being relevant to the OP's actual question.TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »Doesn't matter. Supposedly a calorie is a calorie is a calorie to the human body. You can buy trans fat all by itself.
The OP wants to know the difference between "good" calories and "bad" calories and people are saying "a calorie is a calorie is a calorie". This is simply not true. If it were true, our bodies would feel exactly the same whether we were eating 50g of fat from an avocado or 50g of trans fat. And we don't even need to do a test to prove that isn't true.
From a very simple energy standpoint, you are correct. However, that simplistic mindset does no one any good when it comes to the human body since it is an extremely complex organism.
Any other health-related question: nutrients matter.
You are deliberately muddying the waters here.
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stevencloser wrote: »ManiacalLaugh wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Brilliant question! From what I've read, if you're in a calorie surplus then fat is worse than carbs - with carbs at least your bodies will 'waste' a few calories digesting them and converting them to fat (thermogenesis I think it's called) - whereas your body will store excess dietary fat with minimum fuss if it's not needed for energy.
If you're calorie neutral or in a calorie deficit it doesn't matter much (see twinkie diet mentioned above).
Whether you do low-carb or low-fat dieting is about what you find suits you better - I personally find it easier to quit cheese and bacon than marsh mallows and bread, so cutting the calories mainly from fat is easier.
Fat does not make you fat (unless it's consumed on a caloric surplus). That is a notion leftover from the 90's and has been pretty much debunked across the board.
Seriously, it's the only thing clean eaters, low-carbers, and CICOphants generally agree on - and that's really saying something.
Correct. What he meant though is that if you're in a surplus, fat can just be stored as fat, while carbs aren't fat so they have to go through some processes to be turned to fat. And because carbs are the first thing your body takes as energy source, that rarely ever happens.
Ah - needed the reframe. I missed what he was saying.
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It's obviously more complicated than I can answer here, but...
Macros:
Net Carbs (Total Carbs - Fiber - 0.5 X Sugar Alcohols = Net Carbs) - Net Carbs are converted to glucose at about 100% and in a pretty short time (some of it is absorbed through capillaries in your cheeks as you chew). Within 1-2 hours, those carbs have all been converted to glucose. Carbs spike blood glucose high and fast, as any diabetic will tell you.
Protein - Only around 2/3 of this is converted to glucose, and it happens over several hours. Generally 2-5 hours.
Fat - Only about 10% of this is converted to glucose, and can take around 10-12 hours to complete.
Energy sources in the body:
Blood glucose - Feeds cells that need energy and converted to fat by insulin (made by pancreatic beta cells). Blood glucose is also soaked up by the liver and muscles as glycogen.
Glycogen - When your blood glucose drops (i.e. your cells are using energy), that glycogen gets converted into blood glucose because of glucagon (made by pancreatic alpha cells).
Fat - When you still need more glucose in your blood (because your cells need energy or because your glycogen stores need to be replenished and you don't have glucose for either of these things), you break down fat to convert to blood glucose, which can then be soaked up by cells to be used as energy or turned into glycogen (see above). A byproduct is created in this process (ketones) and is sometimes measured by those on very low carb diets who don't usually have enough glucose in their blood from food (see above section on macros), so they are breaking down fat to create the glucose needed to feed cells (these are often called ketogenic diets).
You also asked if someone eating the right calories that is "junk food" would be healthy... assuming the necessary mix of macros / calories to lose weight, there is still the obvious concern about micronutrients. It isn't just sodium and potassium, but also several vitamins and minerals. The right balance of micronutrients is important as well. One would not want to have a very high sodium:potassium ratio, for example, because current research shows a high risk of heart disease for those who consume such a diet.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »It's obviously more complicated than I can answer here, but...
Macros:
Net Carbs (Total Carbs - Fiber - 0.5 X Sugar Alcohols = Net Carbs) - Net Carbs are converted to glucose at about 100% and in a pretty short time (some of it is absorbed through capillaries in your cheeks as you chew). Within 1-2 hours, those carbs have all been converted to glucose. Carbs spike blood glucose high and fast, as any diabetic will tell you.
Protein - Only around 2/3 of this is converted to glucose, and it happens over several hours. Generally 2-5 hours.
Fat - Only about 10% of this is converted to glucose, and can take around 10-12 hours to complete.
Energy sources in the body:
Blood glucose - Feeds cells that need energy and converted to fat by insulin (made by pancreatic beta cells). Blood glucose is also soaked up by the liver and muscles as glycogen.
Glycogen - When your blood glucose drops (i.e. your cells are using energy), that glycogen gets converted into blood glucose because of glucagon (made by pancreatic alpha cells).
Fat - When you still need more glucose in your blood (because your cells need energy or because your glycogen stores need to be replenished and you don't have glucose for either of these things), you break down fat to convert to blood glucose, which can then be soaked up by cells to be used as energy or turned into glycogen (see above). A byproduct is created in this process (ketones) and is sometimes measured by those on very low carb diets who don't usually have enough glucose in their blood from food (see above section on macros), so they are breaking down fat to create the glucose needed to feed cells (these are often called ketogenic diets).
You also asked if someone eating the right calories that is "junk food" would be healthy... assuming the necessary mix of macros / calories to lose weight, there is still the obvious concern about micronutrients. It isn't just sodium and potassium, but also several vitamins and minerals. The right balance of micronutrients is important as well. One would not want to have a very high sodium:potassium ratio, for example, because current research shows a high risk of heart disease for those who consume such a diet.
Good info! How many hours to turn dietary fat into ketones? What about body fat (in a calorie deficit)?0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »It's obviously more complicated than I can answer here, but...
Macros:
Net Carbs (Total Carbs - Fiber - 0.5 X Sugar Alcohols = Net Carbs) - Net Carbs are converted to glucose at about 100% and in a pretty short time (some of it is absorbed through capillaries in your cheeks as you chew). Within 1-2 hours, those carbs have all been converted to glucose. Carbs spike blood glucose high and fast, as any diabetic will tell you.
Protein - Only around 2/3 of this is converted to glucose, and it happens over several hours. Generally 2-5 hours.
Fat - Only about 10% of this is converted to glucose, and can take around 10-12 hours to complete.
Energy sources in the body:
Blood glucose - Feeds cells that need energy and converted to fat by insulin (made by pancreatic beta cells). Blood glucose is also soaked up by the liver and muscles as glycogen.
Glycogen - When your blood glucose drops (i.e. your cells are using energy), that glycogen gets converted into blood glucose because of glucagon (made by pancreatic alpha cells).
Fat - When you still need more glucose in your blood (because your cells need energy or because your glycogen stores need to be replenished and you don't have glucose for either of these things), you break down fat to convert to blood glucose, which can then be soaked up by cells to be used as energy or turned into glycogen (see above). A byproduct is created in this process (ketones) and is sometimes measured by those on very low carb diets who don't usually have enough glucose in their blood from food (see above section on macros), so they are breaking down fat to create the glucose needed to feed cells (these are often called ketogenic diets).
You also asked if someone eating the right calories that is "junk food" would be healthy... assuming the necessary mix of macros / calories to lose weight, there is still the obvious concern about micronutrients. It isn't just sodium and potassium, but also several vitamins and minerals. The right balance of micronutrients is important as well. One would not want to have a very high sodium:potassium ratio, for example, because current research shows a high risk of heart disease for those who consume such a diet.
Good info! How many hours to turn dietary fat into ketones? What about body fat (in a calorie deficit)?
Dietary fat does not convert to ketones.
Body fat would not convert to ketones either... ketones are just a byproduct created when body fat is converted back into blood glucose.0 -
this whole. "all cals burn the same" is simply not true. some fuels (cals) are slower burning, some are simply healthier and some burn up in no time at all leaving you hungry again.0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »It's obviously more complicated than I can answer here, but...
Macros:
Net Carbs (Total Carbs - Fiber - 0.5 X Sugar Alcohols = Net Carbs) - Net Carbs are converted to glucose at about 100% and in a pretty short time (some of it is absorbed through capillaries in your cheeks as you chew). Within 1-2 hours, those carbs have all been converted to glucose. Carbs spike blood glucose high and fast, as any diabetic will tell you.
Protein - Only around 2/3 of this is converted to glucose, and it happens over several hours. Generally 2-5 hours.
Fat - Only about 10% of this is converted to glucose, and can take around 10-12 hours to complete.
Energy sources in the body:
Blood glucose - Feeds cells that need energy and converted to fat by insulin (made by pancreatic beta cells). Blood glucose is also soaked up by the liver and muscles as glycogen.
Glycogen - When your blood glucose drops (i.e. your cells are using energy), that glycogen gets converted into blood glucose because of glucagon (made by pancreatic alpha cells).
Fat - When you still need more glucose in your blood (because your cells need energy or because your glycogen stores need to be replenished and you don't have glucose for either of these things), you break down fat to convert to blood glucose, which can then be soaked up by cells to be used as energy or turned into glycogen (see above). A byproduct is created in this process (ketones) and is sometimes measured by those on very low carb diets who don't usually have enough glucose in their blood from food (see above section on macros), so they are breaking down fat to create the glucose needed to feed cells (these are often called ketogenic diets).
You also asked if someone eating the right calories that is "junk food" would be healthy... assuming the necessary mix of macros / calories to lose weight, there is still the obvious concern about micronutrients. It isn't just sodium and potassium, but also several vitamins and minerals. The right balance of micronutrients is important as well. One would not want to have a very high sodium:potassium ratio, for example, because current research shows a high risk of heart disease for those who consume such a diet.
Good info! How many hours to turn dietary fat into ketones? What about body fat (in a calorie deficit)?
Dietary fat does not convert to ketones.
Body fat would not convert to ketones either... ketones are just a byproduct created when body fat is converted back into blood glucose.
Oh dear, now I remember. Glycerol phosphate shuttle, we meet again. Didn't understand it the first time I tried to read about it, either. Will try again!
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TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »*shakes head*
So there is a difference between "being healthy" and "weight management".
You can eat nothing but twinkies and, as long as you are within a caloric intake limit below your maintenance, you WILL lose weight.
You'll likely feel like crap pretty quickly. You will be malnourished. You will NOT be healthy. But you will lose weight.
By the same token, if you have a high caloric intake but you eat nutritious foods and get lots of appropriate exercise, you can fat, and still have generally good cardio, flexibility, and sufficient nutrients; you'd just be fat.
Micromanaging nutrients is integral for managing body composition, but is not directly necessary for managing weight.
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TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »think of calories like gas in your car. The car doesn't care what gas station the fuel came from. If you put in 5L of gas here and 5L of gas there, it just knows it has 10L of gas to burn. It won't burn one 5L before the other.
Ah, but it does care if you get the regular, premium, super premium or diesel. They all interact with your car differently and when you get the good stuff, your car can use it more efficiently, cleanly and with less maintenance and repair.
I agree with the general emphasis here on not obsessing over carbs vs protein etc and that strictly for weight loss on the scale CICO is the greatest determining (though not only) factor. But this can be taken too far and it be hooves people to understand nutrition and to eat generally healthy, whole foods diets while incorporating less healthful treats or foods in a balanced way.
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So what about unprocessed trans fat? Because I see people that want to take CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) quiet frequently, and it is a naturally occurring trans fat. There are others in various animal products. I don't remember but there may even be some in naturally occurring vegetable products.TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »I would love for someone to eat all of their fat from trans fat (the processed stuff) and let me know how they feel within a few days.0 -
1800 calories that way sounds like a person with dietary issues to hash out.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Popeye's web site says 1g of trans-fats. Even apart from that, that's 1800 calories of hash browns. Seems pretty atypical.kshama2001 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
And what else would have to go along with those 50g of trans-fats? What am I realistically going to eat to get 50g of trans-fats in a day?TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »I would love for someone to eat all of their fat from trans fat (the processed stuff) and let me know how they feel within a few days.
In a few days? Doubt they'd notice anything unless, in order to do that, they drastically changed everything they ate. But then it wouldn't be due to the trans-fats.
Trans-fats are a longer-term risk factor.
Doubt it hardly scientific. Eat 50g of trans fat in one day. Do it. I dare you.
Five servings of Popeye's hash browns: https://www.yahoo.com/food/13-foods-highest-in-trans-fats-121672025241.html0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »It's obviously more complicated than I can answer here, but...
Macros:
Net Carbs (Total Carbs - Fiber - 0.5 X Sugar Alcohols = Net Carbs) - Net Carbs are converted to glucose at about 100% and in a pretty short time (some of it is absorbed through capillaries in your cheeks as you chew). Within 1-2 hours, those carbs have all been converted to glucose. Carbs spike blood glucose high and fast, as any diabetic will tell you.
Protein - Only around 2/3 of this is converted to glucose, and it happens over several hours. Generally 2-5 hours.
Fat - Only about 10% of this is converted to glucose, and can take around 10-12 hours to complete.
Energy sources in the body:
Blood glucose - Feeds cells that need energy and converted to fat by insulin (made by pancreatic beta cells). Blood glucose is also soaked up by the liver and muscles as glycogen.
Glycogen - When your blood glucose drops (i.e. your cells are using energy), that glycogen gets converted into blood glucose because of glucagon (made by pancreatic alpha cells).
Fat - When you still need more glucose in your blood (because your cells need energy or because your glycogen stores need to be replenished and you don't have glucose for either of these things), you break down fat to convert to blood glucose, which can then be soaked up by cells to be used as energy or turned into glycogen (see above). A byproduct is created in this process (ketones) and is sometimes measured by those on very low carb diets who don't usually have enough glucose in their blood from food (see above section on macros), so they are breaking down fat to create the glucose needed to feed cells (these are often called ketogenic diets).
You also asked if someone eating the right calories that is "junk food" would be healthy... assuming the necessary mix of macros / calories to lose weight, there is still the obvious concern about micronutrients. It isn't just sodium and potassium, but also several vitamins and minerals. The right balance of micronutrients is important as well. One would not want to have a very high sodium:potassium ratio, for example, because current research shows a high risk of heart disease for those who consume such a diet.
Good info! How many hours to turn dietary fat into ketones? What about body fat (in a calorie deficit)?
Dietary fat does not convert to ketones.
Body fat would not convert to ketones either... ketones are just a byproduct created when body fat is converted back into blood glucose.
Oh dear, now I remember. Glycerol phosphate shuttle, we meet again. Didn't understand it the first time I tried to read about it, either. Will try again!
Don't limit yourself to reading about G3P shuttles... look for journal articles that discuss beta oxidation on the whole.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »It's obviously more complicated than I can answer here, but...
Macros:
Net Carbs (Total Carbs - Fiber - 0.5 X Sugar Alcohols = Net Carbs) - Net Carbs are converted to glucose at about 100% and in a pretty short time (some of it is absorbed through capillaries in your cheeks as you chew). Within 1-2 hours, those carbs have all been converted to glucose. Carbs spike blood glucose high and fast, as any diabetic will tell you.
Protein - Only around 2/3 of this is converted to glucose, and it happens over several hours. Generally 2-5 hours.
Fat - Only about 10% of this is converted to glucose, and can take around 10-12 hours to complete.
Energy sources in the body:
Blood glucose - Feeds cells that need energy and converted to fat by insulin (made by pancreatic beta cells). Blood glucose is also soaked up by the liver and muscles as glycogen.
Glycogen - When your blood glucose drops (i.e. your cells are using energy), that glycogen gets converted into blood glucose because of glucagon (made by pancreatic alpha cells).
Fat - When you still need more glucose in your blood (because your cells need energy or because your glycogen stores need to be replenished and you don't have glucose for either of these things), you break down fat to convert to blood glucose, which can then be soaked up by cells to be used as energy or turned into glycogen (see above). A byproduct is created in this process (ketones) and is sometimes measured by those on very low carb diets who don't usually have enough glucose in their blood from food (see above section on macros), so they are breaking down fat to create the glucose needed to feed cells (these are often called ketogenic diets).
You also asked if someone eating the right calories that is "junk food" would be healthy... assuming the necessary mix of macros / calories to lose weight, there is still the obvious concern about micronutrients. It isn't just sodium and potassium, but also several vitamins and minerals. The right balance of micronutrients is important as well. One would not want to have a very high sodium:potassium ratio, for example, because current research shows a high risk of heart disease for those who consume such a diet.
Good info! How many hours to turn dietary fat into ketones? What about body fat (in a calorie deficit)?
Dietary fat does not convert to ketones.
Body fat would not convert to ketones either... ketones are just a byproduct created when body fat is converted back into blood glucose.
Oh dear, now I remember. Glycerol phosphate shuttle, we meet again. Didn't understand it the first time I tried to read about it, either. Will try again!
Don't limit yourself to reading about G3P shuttles... look for journal articles that discuss beta oxidation on the whole.
I'll try, thanks!0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Popeye's web site says 1g of trans-fats. Even apart from that, that's 1800 calories of hash browns. Seems pretty atypical.kshama2001 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
And what else would have to go along with those 50g of trans-fats? What am I realistically going to eat to get 50g of trans-fats in a day?TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »I would love for someone to eat all of their fat from trans fat (the processed stuff) and let me know how they feel within a few days.
In a few days? Doubt they'd notice anything unless, in order to do that, they drastically changed everything they ate. But then it wouldn't be due to the trans-fats.
Trans-fats are a longer-term risk factor.
Doubt it hardly scientific. Eat 50g of trans fat in one day. Do it. I dare you.
Five servings of Popeye's hash browns: https://www.yahoo.com/food/13-foods-highest-in-trans-fats-121672025241.html
Huh. I guess Yahoo was using an old figure to get 10 g of trans fats per serving.
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newyorkcitymom wrote: »TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »think of calories like gas in your car. The car doesn't care what gas station the fuel came from. If you put in 5L of gas here and 5L of gas there, it just knows it has 10L of gas to burn. It won't burn one 5L before the other.
Ah, but it does care if you get the regular, premium, super premium or diesel. They all interact with your car differently and when you get the good stuff, your car can use it more efficiently, cleanly and with less maintenance and repair.
I agree with the general emphasis here on not obsessing over carbs vs protein etc and that strictly for weight loss on the scale CICO is the greatest determining (though not only) factor. But this can be taken too far and it be hooves people to understand nutrition and to eat generally healthy, whole foods diets while incorporating less healthful treats or foods in a balanced way.
As long as it's food your body can handle, it's gonna try and get as much out of it as it can, be that vegetables or sweets. And as soon as it's all taken apart into its components, your body can't tell if that glucose was taken out of an apple or a twinkie, or if that vitamin A came from a carrot or a bowl of cereal.0 -
I have a question:
In the add exercise label we may input our exercise. This then shows how many calories we burned, thus adding the "free" calories to out diet plan. Like, if I would normally stay at 1200 calories, but I exercised and gained a bonus of 175 calories. Thus, I have that 175 extra (unconsumed) calorie. So if I already ate 1000 calories of my 1200 allotted calories. This would give me 375 calories I could potentially eat and still stay on track. This I get, what I don't understand is this:
If I use those 375 calories yet to eat in a way that's unhealthy. A food loaded with sugar or fat. How does the human body distinguish between already *good* calories still in my body and then the add bonus *bad* calories I would now ingest into my body?
Does one cancel out the other?
Are some calories slower to process, burn?
I hope I worded this in a comprehensive way.
Thank you for any feedback.
a calorie is just a unit of energy0 -
hamlet1222 wrote: »Brilliant question! From what I've read, if you're in a calorie surplus then fat is worse than carbs - with carbs at least your bodies will 'waste' a few calories digesting them and converting them to fat (thermogenesis I think it's called) - whereas your body will store excess dietary fat with minimum fuss if it's not needed for energy.
If you're calorie neutral or in a calorie deficit it doesn't matter much (see twinkie diet mentioned above).
Whether you do low-carb or low-fat dieting is about what you find suits you better - I personally find it easier to quit cheese and bacon than marsh mallows and bread, so cutting the calories mainly from fat is easier.
Huh. No. Fats take the longest to metabolize. Diabetics know this because consuming fat has negligible effect on their blood sugars.
Alcohol is the fastest.
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/metabolizes-faster-fat-protein-1299.html
The reason it is easiest to cut fat is because fats are calorie dense, carrying the equivalent calorie load in half the volume. I therefore measure my treasured fats with a teaspoon or a tablespoon....instead of a cup.0 -
hamlet1222 wrote: »Brilliant question! From what I've read, if you're in a calorie surplus then fat is worse than carbs - with carbs at least your bodies will 'waste' a few calories digesting them and converting them to fat (thermogenesis I think it's called) - whereas your body will store excess dietary fat with minimum fuss if it's not needed for energy.
If you're calorie neutral or in a calorie deficit it doesn't matter much (see twinkie diet mentioned above).
Whether you do low-carb or low-fat dieting is about what you find suits you better - I personally find it easier to quit cheese and bacon than marsh mallows and bread, so cutting the calories mainly from fat is easier.
Thanks!!! I am always wondering about things. How far does this "rabbit hole" go?0 -
It's all chemicals to the body. There's sugar (glucose), but not good sugar and bad sugar.
Generally speaking, when called upon to release energy for exercise, the body uses the most efficient (in terms of speed and energy required to execute) processes first. Typically, glycogen stores go first. Carbs get broken into glucose. Metabolizing fat is a pretty efficient process (and is, after all, fat's purpose). Protein is broken into amino acids, and if the body doesn't need amino acids (or if the body runs out of other fuel), it would process those for energy. Each macronutrient has it's own pathways for generating energy.
Also generally speaking, the body will use first what it is least able to store. E.g. alcohol--that takes metabolic priority over everything else. If you've eaten lots of carbs and fat, the carbs will metabolize first. The whole "low fat" nonsense of the 60's and 70's was sort of predicated on the false notion that any dietary fat will be stored, but truthfully, how much fat get stored is completely dependent on the overall energy equation (CICO). I.e., if you eat tons of carbs, the body will store the little fat you do eat until carbs are processed, but if you eat few carbs and tons of fat, the body will metabolize fat because it is what it has.
Not sure if that addresses your Q.
Yes you did, thank you very much.0 -
TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »I would love for someone to eat all of their fat from trans fat (the processed stuff) and let me know how they feel within a few days.
To be fair, OP asked about metabolic pathways for different nutrients. "How does the body distinguish..." She didn't ask about how different nutrients make you feel.
Right I didn't.
One quick mini question to add: Is there a "better" choice between higher calorie dense foods that have good nutrition (vs) low calorie foods you can eat a lot of that have good nutrition as well? I'm referring to the volume one consumes in their belly to feel "full" Is it better to *not* over fill you stomach space by eating smaller quanties (to shrink the size of ones belly space) if both the higher calorie nutrient food AND the lower calorie but still nutrient foods are equal in reaching your daily calorie intake?
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