Does the source of sugars matter?

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buckeyebuc
buckeyebuc Posts: 35 Member
in Food and Nutrition
I am almost always over on my sugars and not sure how to lower them without cutting out my daily apple or banana. Are fruit and vegetable sugars different then cookie and cake sugars?
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  • rosieflo
    rosieflo Posts: 218
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    In my mind they are. I limit myself on bananas because they are really high in them. I stick to apples and berries mostly. But, the way I see it, fruit is sooo much better than cookies. They have other nutritional factors that make them worth it! :) I also balance them out with a protein when I eat them. (Cheese usually! lol)
  • Arizona_JR
    Arizona_JR Posts: 275
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    In my opinion they are different. I think as long as you are eating those sugary fruits in first half of the day, you are fine. Hell, the caveman ate as much as he could stomach and they never find obese cavemen bones. :wink:
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
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    Assuming you keep macronutrients/calories consistent, then the source of sugar does NOT matter in regards to body composition.

    Glucose is glucose. Fructose is fructose. Galactose is galactose. Your body will perceive them in terms of molecular structure once they are metabolized, NOT the food they came from.
    In my opinion they are different. I think as long as you are eating those sugary fruits in first half of the day, you are fine. Hell, the caveman ate as much as he could stomach and they never find obese cavemen bones. :wink:
    Why does it matter when they are eaten?
  • chizzledfrmstone
    chizzledfrmstone Posts: 58
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    There's some differences.

    Fruit contains fructose while those cookies probably contain sucrose depending on how they're made.
  • tnorkus
    tnorkus Posts: 45
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    I don't usually reply to these posts.........but I can't help it on this one. Sugar IS the same on a molecular level depending on its structure-sucrose, glucose, fructose, etc. How the body absorbs and processes it will always be determined in its delivery agent, i.e.:fruits and veggies vs cookies and processed foods.

    I submit- http://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM
    Its long!!! About 90 minutes but the science seems pretty spot on.
    End of it is that I dont pay so much attention to the total sugar content as long as its in the form of whole foods and not processed.

    Admittedly I am not diabetic but they should have the same concerns- absorption of sugar into the blood/glycemic index.

    Regards,
    Tom
  • nickfn
    nickfn Posts: 19
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    Absolutely there is a difference. First of all, the time of day when you eat them can have an effect. If your body is depleted of glycogen (like in the morning after you wake up or after 45+ minutes of moderately intense activity), eating items with *some* sugar can help replete these stores quicker. This is not to say go eat three oreos right after a long jog. The source of sugars also matters. Fruit contains fiber along with the sugars, so your insulin spike will not be as sharp as eating, lets say, a large piece of cake. You should google 'Glycemic Index' and check it out. The Glycemic Index is very important in regards to health and weight loss, as regulation of insulin levels helps determine when your body stores fat, and when it doesn't. And as some people already mentioned, fruit usually has added benefits such as vitamins.

    The argument should not be 'oh is glucose better than fructose or galactose'. Monosaccharides vs Polysaccharides etc. The chemical makeup of the sugar (CnHn-2On-1)+n(H2O) isn't really what the debate should be on.

    Regardless, I have seen a TREMENDOUS amount of misinformation and anecdotal evidence being boasted as fact on MFP. I would highly suggest turning to a reputable source for information if you are serious. Hope this helps. Cheers!
  • GrrArrgh
    GrrArrgh Posts: 3
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    Keep eating your daily apple and banana. This article does a good job of explaining the role of fiber in fruits and other unprocessed foods.

    http://lifehacker.com/5809331/what-sugar-actually-does-to-your-brain-and-body

    "Fructose doesn't provide a satiety alert to let your brain know to tell you to stop eating, but fiber does this to a high degree. This is why you can eat fruit—despite the fructose content—without experiencing the same problems as, say, drinking a sugary soda. This is why fruit can actually be beneficial. The same goes for processed sugar. Sugar doesn't exist naturally as sparkly white crystals, but as a really tough stick called sugar cane. It isn't until you process the sugar can that you lose all the fiber it contains. Without the fiber, you only have the tasty but problematic part of the original food. That's why processed sugars can cause problems."
  • nelsaphine
    nelsaphine Posts: 212 Member
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    Assuming you keep macronutrients/calories consistent, then the source of sugar does NOT matter in regards to body composition.

    Glucose is glucose. Fructose is fructose. Galactose is galactose. Your body will perceive them in terms of molecular structure once they are metabolized, NOT the food they came from.
    In my opinion they are different. I think as long as you are eating those sugary fruits in first half of the day, you are fine. Hell, the caveman ate as much as he could stomach and they never find obese cavemen bones. :wink:
    Why does it matter when they are eaten?

    Ok you totally lost me!! What now? does it matter? not matter? how do I know what kind of sugar is in an apple?

    Please help I'm always over on sugar too :(
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
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    Absolutely there is a difference. First of all, the time of day when you eat them can have an effect. If your body is depleted of glycogen (like in the morning after you wake up or after 45+ minutes of moderately intense activity), eating items with *some* sugar can help replete these stores quicker. This is not to say go eat three oreos right after a long jog. The source of sugars also matters. Fruit contains fiber along with the sugars, so your insulin spike will not be as sharp as eating, lets say, a large piece of cake. You should google 'Glycemic Index' and check it out. The Glycemic Index is very important in regards to health and weight loss, as regulation of insulin levels helps determine when your body stores fat, and when it doesn't. And as some people already mentioned, fruit usually has added benefits such as vitamins.

    The argument should not be 'oh is glucose better than fructose or galactose'. Monosaccharides vs Polysaccharides etc. The chemical makeup of the sugar (CnHn-2On-1)+n(H2O) isn't really what the debate should be on.

    Regardless, I have seen a TREMENDOUS amount of misinformation and anecdotal evidence being boasted as fact on MFP. I would highly suggest turning to a reputable source for information if you are serious. Hope this helps. Cheers!
    Time of day does not matter unless you are doing *multiple* glycogen-depleting workouts per day.

    Insulin spikes do not matter. Insulin ONLY matters for those with chronically raised levels. The boosts that come from meals has no bearing on body composition. That is a myth. The glycemic index has no bearing on body composition outside of those who are insulin resistant or diabetic, which is a relatively small portion of the population.

    Speaking of reputable sources, can you find me sources that show normal, healthy individuals losing more fat by favoring certain GI foods? Preferably clinical trials that control for caloric/macronutrient intake, and trials that are not performed on diabetics or insulin resistant participants. Because I can post probably 10 that will tell you GI means absolutely nothing for long-term weight loss.

    See: Das SK, et al. Long-term effects of 2 energy-restricted diets differing in glycemic load on dietary adherence, body composition, and metabolism in CALERIE: a 1-y randomized

    "These findings provide more detailed evidence that diets differing substantially in glycemic load induce comparable long-term weight loss."
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
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    Ok you totally lost me!! What now? does it matter? not matter? how do I know what kind of sugar is in an apple?

    Please help I'm always over on sugar too :(
    It does not matter. Anyone who says otherwise can feel free to bring forth empirical, peer-reviewed research. The GI content or simple/complex of the carb is irrelevant. Assuming your calories/macros are consistent, then the sugar you eat doesn't matter whether it comes from an apple or a candy bar.

    *Again, regarding body composition.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
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    White or table sugar, what is usually in cookies and other sweet junk food (as well as stuff with high fructose corn syrup) is a mix of fructose and glucose. Sugar is 50/50, while HFCS is about 55/45 (fructose/glucose). Fruit, on the other hand, is all fructose.

    This matters because only glucose (of the two) triggers the body to make insulin. This is why diabetics can use fructose but are told to avoid glucose.

    Fruits and veggies also tend to be relatively high in fiber, which help you eat less (vs junk food's "empty calories" that aren't filling).

    Wikipedia actually has a good article on Fructose
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose#Fructose_metabolism

    Without seeing your food list, I'd say keep eating the fruits and veggies (they have way too many other benefits to give up) and see what you can do about the hidden sources of sugar. For example, opt for making your own juices if you do that kind of thing. Make your own sauces and condiments (easier than you'd think. and actually cheaper).

    Also, apples aren't created equal. Perhaps do some research and see if you can find a variety with lower sugar and/or more nutrients.
  • GrrArrgh
    GrrArrgh Posts: 3
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    Also, check out Sugar, the Bitter Truth (main source for the article linked earlier)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

    Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, explores the damage caused by sugary foods. He argues that fructose (too much) and fiber (not enough) appear to be cornerstones of the obesity epidemic through their effects on insulin. Series: UCSF Mini Medical School for the Public [7/2009] [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 16717]
  • nelsaphine
    nelsaphine Posts: 212 Member
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    Ok you totally lost me!! What now? does it matter? not matter? how do I know what kind of sugar is in an apple?

    Please help I'm always over on sugar too :(
    It does not matter. Anyone who says otherwise can feel free to bring forth empirical, peer-reviewed research. The GI content or simple/complex of the carb is irrelevant. Assuming your calories/macros are consistent, then the sugar you eat doesn't matter whether it comes from an apple or a candy bar.

    *Again, regarding body composition.

    Ok thank you for that!! So if I'm within my calories per day...I can continue with my fruits right? I eat cantaloupe, green grapes, apples and sometimes banana :)
  • Arizona_JR
    Arizona_JR Posts: 275
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    [/quote]
    Why does it matter when they are eaten?
    [/quote]

    I was informed by a fitness nutritionist that, for weight loss, the first part of your day should be a little more carb heavy, and the back half of your day be more protein heavy. As I understand it, this helps your body turn to fat in the the evening for fuel rather than carbs/ sugars.
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
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    Why does it matter when they are eaten?
    [/quote]

    I was informed by a fitness nutritionist that, for weight loss, the first part of your day should be a little more carb heavy, and the back half of your day be more protein heavy. As I understand it, this helps your body turn to fat in the the evening for fuel rather than carbs/ sugars.
    [/quote]
    That nutritionist is 100% wrong and needs to put down Men's Health and start doing some pubmed searches.
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
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    Also, check out Sugar, the Bitter Truth (main source for the article linked earlier)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

    Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, explores the damage caused by sugary foods. He argues that fructose (too much) and fiber (not enough) appear to be cornerstones of the obesity epidemic through their effects on insulin. Series: UCSF Mini Medical School for the Public [7/2009] [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 16717]
    Very poor video, actually, with studies that have no practical bearing in realistic HFCS consumption.
  • Arizona_JR
    Arizona_JR Posts: 275
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    For the time being his credentials are more real than yours. (pro bodybuilder and certified nutritionist and fitness instructor vs a no faced, no name guy doling out expert advice on a forum).
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
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    For the time being his credentials are more real than yours. (pro bodybuilder and certified nutritionist and fitness instructor vs a no faced, no name guy doling out expert advice on a forum).
    Tsk tsk. Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy and does not bring substance to an argument.

    Find me a SINGLE study promoting carbs being consumed earlier in the day. Pubmed.com. go on...
  • Arizona_JR
    Arizona_JR Posts: 275
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    I notice your only purpose around this forum is to argue with people and insult their "trainers", meanwhile your only area of expertise seems to be a couple of websites.

    If my friend's advice wasn't sound he wouldn't be winning his age group in bodybuilding competitions. He lives by the advice he preaches and it shows (awards). But then again, real results don't hold up to "internet articles", do they?

    I refuse to argue with a faceless internet expert. Feel free to insult anyone else that has an opposing view to yours, and we'll just all accept you as the forum know-it-all.
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
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    I notice your only purpose around this forum is to argue with people and insult their "trainers", meanwhile your only area of expertise seems to be a couple of websites.

    If my friend's advice wasn't sound he wouldn't be winning his age group in bodybuilding competitions. He lives by the advice he preaches and it shows (awards). But then again, real results don't hold up to "internet articles", do they?

    I refuse to argue with a faceless internet expert. Feel free to insult anyone else that has an opposing view to yours, and we'll just all accept you as the forum know-it-all.
    My purpose is to inform with facts based on empirical research.

    Your friend is not winning because he eats carbs earlier in the day. He is winning because his macronutrients and training is in check. I can find studies that defy much of what he probably believes in. More meals per day? Protein immediately post workout? Need for insulin spike? No carbs before bed? It's all mainstream nonsense with no empirical foundation. The only justification you have for it being right is, "my friend does it and he's ripped." Go look up Layne Norton, PhD and pro natty bodybuilder. See what he thinks about carbs earlier in the day.

    I don't have "internet articles." I have peer-reviewed, empirical research. Do you understand the difference?

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