Depression and Weight Loss

shelleygold wrote: »

Hey Tribe
I have allowed myself to be distracted by another thread and I am not sure why I found myself in the thick of a debate surrounding the science of weight loss and the importance of considering individual differences and respecting the possibility that not all bodies behave the same way. I certainly couldn't keep up with the "scientists" who can point to objective truths about calories in and calories out etc and measurement variables and on and on. I found myself trying to plead for some type of recognition that we ought not to judge people who struggle with weight loss as mathematically "inept" or even worse, self-deceptive. Do I think of myself as one of "those" people who pretend that they are eating less than they are? Am I one of the "fluffy" people who think my body must work differently than the machines described by the scientists who act like there is no ostensible difference between people so we will gain or lose based on caloric factors. That's it. End of story. I feel deflated and disappointed...and more than anything else confused. So...here is a tip. Be careful about discussions that lead one into the deeper waters of our own truths. Sure we have to face ourselves but I would prefer to do it kindly and with intention, rather than by falling over myself with trying to make sense out of something which I am only beginning to understand. I am not saying there are wrong. I just think I didn't look after myself through the process. So.....I am back here.
Thanks for letting me return.
S

Sorry you allowed yourself to get bogged down. It hurts but you can overcome. Welcome back!

shelleygold wrote: »

Hey everyone,
I am sorry I have not submitted a post in the past few days. I have noticed a bit of a lull in our thread and imagine that we are all busy with the minutia of our lives. For me, I have found myself working hard to stay present and focused on the tasks in my life. This has been an interesting experience as I have really been confronted with my moods as I have noticed lots of fluctuations in my depression and anxiety. The good news is that I am much more aware of my triggers and what impacts my emotions. I started to read up on another psychological model called Dialytic Behavioural Therapy. have you read about it? The therapy, from what I have read, is designed to help people who have what is loosely called Borderline Personality Disorder which I do not really understand and the criteria doesn't seem to reflect my issues. Different than the criteria for BPD, I would like to think I have insight and some degree of understanding regarding the choices I can make. Yet, I find it so hard to look at the bright side of life and to see hope. I guess this is the impact of Depression and I get that. The DBT approach is useful in that I am learning how to notice my feelings rather than become tortured by them. Meditation and mindfulness has been a great addition to my life and I would recommend both to you as the benefits are great. I have noticed that I can handle more stress and ups and downs. It is not perfect but it is better. MY weight.....well, I think I am worrying about it less.I wonder how you are working on your moods in your lives? Also, how do you decide to let go of your stress and frustration? Do you think it is something that you can manage with effort? I would love to know what positive strategies you have been using lately to manage your moods.
Shel

I have considered joining a DBT group.... the approach helped my first child tremendously. most of the groups are for teenagers around here I enjoy reading about it online. I believe the meditation at the end of every yoga class is helping me with mindfulness. Since i have always used vigorous exercise as an antidote to stress and frustration, and now i cannot do so, i'm struggling. yoga helps. listening to music helps. gardening helps. eating whole foods helps. riding my motorcycle also helps, but i'm a fair weather rider (and i don't ride unless i'm feeling stable, if you know what i mean) to answer another question, i whole-heartedly think it is something i can manage and change.
i'm glad to hear you are worrying about weight less. i think our society is far too concerned with weight. consider focusing on your health instead. we want you to be around for a long long time

GeckoSupervisor wrote: »

Throwing a thought out there for the "exercise is all you need to cure depression" crowd.
I have Major Depressive Disorder and General Anxiety Disorder. I struggled for my entire early adult life to manage it on my own, but then came the suicidal thoughts... obviously it wasn't working. Still, everyone around me kept saying "get more exercise, that's all you need!" Really easy for them to say, when for me just getting out of bed may as well have been as easy as suddenly learning how to fly.

But then, a doctor friend of mine put it in terms that really, really made sense to me. She said, that to use diabetes as an example, of course a doctor would recommend that a diabetic get plenty of exercise and make dietary changes. But, a doctor would also recommend insulin. Taking medication to help manage a disease is not shameful, and is sometimes the thing that needs to be done in order to live a healthy, fulfilling life.

I completely agree with you. I'm one of the lucky ones..... exercise does help me tremendously (when i can do it) BUT it's not a cure-all. I also use meds, diet, mindfulness (i try), supplements..... etc

shelleygold wrote: »

Hey Tribe
I have allowed myself to be distracted by another thread and I am not sure why I found myself in the thick of a debate surrounding the science of weight loss and the importance of considering individual differences and respecting the possibility that not all bodies behave the same way. I certainly couldn't keep up with the "scientists" who can point to objective truths about calories in and calories out etc and measurement variables and on and on. I found myself trying to plead for some type of recognition that we ought not to judge people who struggle with weight loss as mathematically "inept" or even worse, self-deceptive. Do I think of myself as one of "those" people who pretend that they are eating less than they are? Am I one of the "fluffy" people who think my body must work differently than the machines described by the scientists who act like there is no ostensible difference between people so we will gain or lose based on caloric factors. That's it. End of story. I feel deflated and disappointed...and more than anything else confused. So...here is a tip. Be careful about discussions that lead one into the deeper waters of our own truths. Sure we have to face ourselves but I would prefer to do it kindly and with intention, rather than by falling over myself with trying to make sense out of something which I am only beginning to understand. I am not saying there are wrong. I just think I didn't look after myself through the process. So.....I am back here.
Thanks for letting me return.
S

Hiya Shel,
I had some thoughts, but i like Robert's better, LOL personally, I like it when people are open-minded enough to fully consider someone else's perspective, even when believing their own perspective to be "truth"

CICO works for me, personally, but i don't think the human body is that "cut and dry" MAN, we are complex! the CICO model doesn't account for hormones. here's two anecdotal observations:
my exercise buddy is my age, my build, my weight. she doesn't have a thyroid and takes a synthetic pill everyday.
i can take in more net calories than she can while maintaining weight. (SO not fair to her )

my husband can lose weight on "atkins" (i don't think atkins is a healthy diet whatsoever) the atkins folks assert that if you eat NO carbs, your body won't release insulin and therefore won't store fat. this man i love can eat nothing but protein and fat..... and the pounds come off. he will never count calories, so i have no idea about his CICO.

anyhow, i like following CICO because it works for me, but i also follow other dietary restrictions for the sake of my mental health, so i'm sure that plays into it as well. I just don't think we can discount the role of hormones concerning weight loss. that's my story, i'm sticking to it, without the science to back it up
i agree that this is your "tribe", and you can come and go as you please

I enjoy this thread because it is usually free of the back and forth that goes on in other threads. I've often thought that this should be a distinct group away from the main boards to protect that atmosphere. On the other hand, that would keep a lot of people from finding the support it has provided. So, I suggest we refrain from bringing frustration we've felt in other threads to this one. It is the internet, after all, and many of us have experienced and participated in that kind of exchange. We should remind ourselves that this isn't the "real world," so to speak, and we can let that feeling of frustration pass...more easily, IMO than our real, every day difficulties. "This too shall pass" is a mantra I use to help me when I allow myself to get overwhelmed with negative thoughts. If we don't let it pass, the truth gets lost in our need to express what we think is right.

I'd also like to add, if I may, that CICO is merely shorthand for an equation that is made up of all our personal variables. Hormones, age, depression, etc just change our personal equation. Discovering our personal CICO equation is why were here. To find help from others who have similar variables. There should be no argument, but the back and forth will continue because typed text on an open forum leaves out a lot of tonal cues important for human interaction. My choice is usually to not engage...other than my attempt at humor...which is mostly lost because its sort of dark and dry. LOL. So, I get what I need from reading the many science based theories here, and it is working...even with my age, hormones, autoimmune disease and depression...my equation is working...for now. When my equation changes I will know it and make adjustments.

Thank you to Shel for starting this thread. It really is a helpful resource for many of us who have similar difficulties. It's nice to feel comfortable discussing such a sensitive variable in this journey we are on together.

I have been diagnosed with major depression and anxiety disorder. I have been on several antidepressants. Theyr served their purpose at the time and probably prevented me from going into some psychiatric crisis or self harm. At one point, I decided to come off of meds and work out my life. I concentrated on diet and exercise, and every pound that came off helped me feel in control of my life and see my purpose and self-worth. Every fitness gain did the same. I definitely still feel the depression wheels turning on a daily basis and sometimes my anxiety gets me going. I've developed into a runner, though, and that seriously is powerful for clearing my mind, getting out frustration among other things. I hope it's going to stay in my life for a VERY long time.

shelleygold wrote: »

Hi again,
I wonder how moods such as Depression, Anxiety, Bipolar etc impact our judgements when we are confronted with problems to solve in relation to interpersonal or social exchanges? I reflect on Rabbit's sense that I offended him with the reference to OCD which triggered in him a significant response rather than a light hearted reaction. I know that when I am feeling down, have gained weight, or experience anxiety, my processing of information and my ability to see things in different ways reduces to a very limited level and I am left (stuck) with an interpretation or conclusion which is often unhelpful. Taking this further, the impact(s) we may have on others may also be "collateral" damage when they are interacting with us and not aware or even prepared for how we are perceiving and processing. I feel sad that I may have caused someone a degree of upset and will evaluate my "standard operating procedures" both when I am calm and level handed and when I get triggered and become changed somehow in my cognitive functioning. I would appreciate hearing from people who have also reflected on they react to stressful interactions and emotionally charged exchanges both when calmness and emotional regulation is occurring and when the reverse is true. Perhaps this discussion will tease out strategies that one can use to manage not just the moods themselves but the accompanying choices we make when interacting with others. For example, should we let people know when we are struggling so that our responses can be seen against the backdrop of where we are at emotionally? Do we need to go that far? I do not think we should have to apologize for who we are and at the same time I think I have a responsibility to ensure that those people in my world are not negatively impacted by me. I struggle with this. I would love to hear your views.

Shel

Hi Shel,

When I'm triggered I might employ a variety of strategies - walk away, write a draft but not respond til later, rewrite something a number of times.

In real life I will let people know when I am struggling. For example, I will say "I'm frazzled; please be gentle" to my fiance whose acerbic wit I find funny except when I am frazzled. I haven't done it online. I've seen people do it on a discussion board I used to be on.

kshama2001 wrote: »

shelleygold wrote: »

Hi again,
I wonder how moods such as Depression, Anxiety, Bipolar etc impact our judgements when we are confronted with problems to solve in relation to interpersonal or social exchanges? I reflect on Rabbit's sense that I offended him with the reference to OCD which triggered in him a significant response rather than a light hearted reaction. I know that when I am feeling down, have gained weight, or experience anxiety, my processing of information and my ability to see things in different ways reduces to a very limited level and I am left (stuck) with an interpretation or conclusion which is often unhelpful. Taking this further, the impact(s) we may have on others may also be "collateral" damage when they are interacting with us and not aware or even prepared for how we are perceiving and processing. I feel sad that I may have caused someone a degree of upset and will evaluate my "standard operating procedures" both when I am calm and level handed and when I get triggered and become changed somehow in my cognitive functioning. I would appreciate hearing from people who have also reflected on they react to stressful interactions and emotionally charged exchanges both when calmness and emotional regulation is occurring and when the reverse is true. Perhaps this discussion will tease out strategies that one can use to manage not just the moods themselves but the accompanying choices we make when interacting with others. For example, should we let people know when we are struggling so that our responses can be seen against the backdrop of where we are at emotionally? Do we need to go that far? I do not think we should have to apologize for who we are and at the same time I think I have a responsibility to ensure that those people in my world are not negatively impacted by me. I struggle with this. I would love to hear your views.

Shel

Hi Shel,

When I'm triggered I might employ a variety of strategies - walk away, write a draft but not respond til later, rewrite something a number of times.

In real life I will let people know when I am struggling. For example, I will say "I'm frazzled; please be gentle" to my fiance whose acerbic wit I find funny except when I am frazzled. I haven't done it online. I've seen people do it on a discussion board I used to be on.

I do the same thing with people i know well. at work, i can put in my headphones and work on nonsocial projects

shelleygold wrote: »

Dear Rabbit and others.
Welcome to our thread where you will find open mindedness, compassion and a surprising degree of tolerance for human individuality. Rather than see mental health challenges as weakness, here, we discuss and compare our unique experiences both honestly and respectfuly and create a learning space where information is disseminated and discussed in a fair and balanced way.
I have been so impressed with the degree of sophistication in contributors and I wonder if it is less about people trying to sound like experts and specialists and more about regular people sharing their subjective and personal experiences. I have been aware of an unprecedented sense of acceptance and care in this room and Rabbit, you are welcome here and who knows, you may pick up some tips on an alternative way people communicate.
In terms of an apology, I agree completely. When you wrote that you were not a "special snowflake", I recall feeling a bit wounded and retaliated by offering an alternative label (OCD). I agree that no labels ought to be part of banter and I apologise. It was meant in fun. Again my apologies .
I learned a lot participating in that thread and have no regrets. But I am glad to be back in this environment where being right is not nearly as important as being treated with respect and openness in a nonthreatening way.
Thanks
Shel

Shel,

The above only reinforces my initial opinion of you. I did see some of the exchange in the thread, but thought at first you might have been joking directed at yourself regarding the OCD comment. But the thread was shut down before I saw the complete exchange. I do actually think that despite some using the term in a negative way quite often at some level everyone IS in fact a "special snowflake". We all have different things that drive our behaviors.

But at any rate, having seen your mindful manner on this thread, your willingness to apologize for any insulting comment, intentional or not, does reinforce to me that you are not willing to judge another in any light that you would not judge yourself. And I will personally assure you that in a similar light, people can assume to know my feelings and intentions better than I do. But there was no "white knight" complex involved in my wishing to take one side or another of an exchange that I didn't even see. It was a sincere observation from me that you would not IMO inflict any intentional damage on another in the form of judgement.

That's one of the reasons why IMO you are such a worthy "tribe leader" here.

shelleygold wrote: »

Hi again,
I wonder how moods such as Depression, Anxiety, Bipolar etc impact our judgements when we are confronted with problems to solve in relation to interpersonal or social exchanges? I reflect on Rabbit's sense that I offended him with the reference to OCD which triggered in him a significant response rather than a light hearted reaction. I know that when I am feeling down, have gained weight, or experience anxiety, my processing of information and my ability to see things in different ways reduces to a very limited level and I am left (stuck) with an interpretation or conclusion which is often unhelpful. Taking this further, the impact(s) we may have on others may also be "collateral" damage when they are interacting with us and not aware or even prepared for how we are perceiving and processing. I feel sad that I may have caused someone a degree of upset and will evaluate my "standard operating procedures" both when I am calm and level handed and when I get triggered and become changed somehow in my cognitive functioning. I would appreciate hearing from people who have also reflected on they react to stressful interactions and emotionally charged exchanges both when calmness and emotional regulation is occurring and when the reverse is true. Perhaps this discussion will tease out strategies that one can use to manage not just the moods themselves but the accompanying choices we make when interacting with others. For example, should we let people know when we are struggling so that our responses can be seen against the backdrop of where we are at emotionally? Do we need to go that far? I do not think we should have to apologize for who we are and at the same time I think I have a responsibility to ensure that those people in my world are not negatively impacted by me. I struggle with this. I would love to hear your views.

Shel

Regarding this, I at the current time have no diagnosis or tendencies of a "day to day" type of disorder that I am consciously aware of. Though I must be mindful of my PTSD on a regular basis, I have been fortunate that it only rears it's head on occasion, and I usually see that coming due to understanding my triggers fairly well.

But within the normal moods swings I experienced both before and after my PTSD incidents, I think any swing certainly can impact our interactions on a daily basis. I think it would be challenging to find someone who claims to have never made a poor decision due to their mood at some time. And I think for the most part those who have at some point either been diagnosed with a mental health disorder, or just try to understand them better are better equipped to understand and somewhat control these swings, which might include knowing when to limit decisions that might end up biased. I know I attended a number of groups which were attended by people with many differing diagnosis, and a standing rule in most groups was "to never judge any persons struggle in recovery as lesser than your own". I now try to apply this to every interaction I have, as I feel that removing judgement always gives me a more defined focus on the interaction.

So for me, my primary goal is to always be aware and mindful of my mood state, especially when my PTSD triggers can't be avoided for some reason. But I have made my direct family and all close friends aware of my diagnosis and symptoms, and ask them to kindly and gently remind me if they feel any triggers are pushing my buttons. As well as let them know there are times I will isolate somewhat until I reduce my triggers and get myself back into a better state. I feel it's only fair to them to let them know I am attempting to reduce any "collateral damage" as you phrased it, before the fact. I don't need or desire any regrets in addition to whatever was causing my triggers to be affecting me. I have also done this with people I know on a less personal level, such as a former boss, if they might not see it and take it as just not caring about my job that day.


I think you've done a great job in your self reflection Shel. Nobody should have to apologize for who they are ever. But I think you most likely do a better job at not negatively impacting others than most other humans, myself included, do. You seem to excel at being considerate of all around you.

Hey guys. I have struggled with generalized anxiety and panic attacks for about 8 years and this is my first time dealing with depression. Over the past three months the depression has gotten pretty intense. I have hopes that the new medicine I am taking will help me get back to my normal self. As most of you know, it takes about 8 weeks to really get a feel for it.

I feel good today. I worry a bit about tomorrow. But I find myself coping a little better each day. I personally handled the weight loss and depression/anxiety issue with my dr by deciding to do meal replacement shakes twice a day. That has actually helped me feel really in control (even if it's only a small portion of my life right now). Depression and anxiety can really make you feel like you have no control or ability to make any clear decision. So it's nice to have a tool to help me through the hard days. Being able to focus on one healthy meal and two snacks has made it much more feasible for me right now as opposed to how overwhelming it can feel to even get out of bed some days when you are depressed, let along make clear decisions all day long.

I'm happy I found this thread. It helps me know I am not alone. I've certainly felt over the past few months like no one understands what I've been going through, and I see now, that many of you here do. Please feel free to add me.

I am also of the general consensus that the exercise is helpful with channeling my anxiety and depression into something productive, when I can actually get out of bed... So on my good days, like today, when I've beat the fatigue, and mustered up enough energy, I keep my workout shoes and sweatpants nearby in case I have the urge to squeeze in a workout.


My thought:
We can only do what we can do based on the limitations of the moment that we are in. The good thing is, with the passing of each moment, another follows behind it.

Thanks Shel. It was tough. Due to a medical condition, I had to cancel or postpone everything. I'm recovered, the sun was out today, and I worked on the trail in the woods behind my house for over an hour, which cheered me up. I'll see family tomorrow.

On the 23rd I was feeling so nauseated, I couldn't eat much of anything all day. For a moment that morning I actually hoped that I had norovirus, and that it would be unwise for anyone to come to our house or for us to go out. Unfortunately, on the 25th I felt better and everything went off as planned. I ate cookies, fudge, candy and all the holiday meals. But, I had given myself "permission" to eat freely, so I don't feel bad at all. There was one meal in particular that I stopped eating half way through. It was an emotional evening, and I could feel the lump of emotion in my belly. I am getting better at noticing that feeling. I am so ready for everything to get back to normal. I get anxious, overwhelmed and depressed without my routine. Ready for 2016!