Just consider this

I don't get your logic. Many people with first cancers or precancerous cells are told to stop smoking or they will get more aggressive secondary cancers? It doesn't stop them smoking.

Many alcoholics are told the next drink could kill them but they don't stop.

I don't know that most people feel this way including those who have an ability to moderate.

For example, people know not to stick their hand in a fire because they know that there will be an immediate negative consequence as a direct result of that action. Additionally, there's no positive reinforcement occurring in this behavior.

The same cannot be said for other behaviors such as smoking, or sitting on a couch eating donuts (I'd argue that both of these also have a positive reinforcement aspect to them which further complicates things).

But maybe I'm not understanding your premise.

Like others I am not sure that I understand...

Are we talking about moderation vs elimination?

I love that statement! I work for a consulting company and use a very similar analogy with many of the companies I work with. For example, when people say that they don't have time to tend to some business activity or to further a company initiative that's not necessarily part of their day-to-day job, I always ask them "what would happen if I told you that if you don't begin completing *insert initiative here* you would have to pack your things up and leave your comfortable job by the end of the day, what would you do? You would find the damn time!" It's all about priorities.

Same kind of thing here, and I definitely see what you're saying. The only thing I would add would be that the doctor would have to say "you will get cancer TODAY". Getting cancer at some unspecified date in the future would not be a motivator for most.

Most of us know that an unhealthy diet puts us at risk for a great many things (heart disease, metabolic disease, cancer, ill-fitting-bikini syndrome, etc.), yet we find ways to de-prioritize those things in the most imaginative and creative ways. For example, everyone has heard about some 100 year old dude/woman who was a pack-a-day smoker. Or the overweight person who lived in to their eighties with minimal health complications. Or maybe you've looked at last year's bikini and decided "well, rather than try and shimmy in to that one I'll get a new one, those colours are SO 2014 anyway".

I get it, and I'm guilty of it. Especially the bikini thing.... Did that this year

Life style changes are probably one of the hardest things to do. That is why I think success greatly depends on them being done over time. So, if my doctor told me that my next cigarette would be my last, I probably wouldn't be responding to this thread right now. My doctors did tell me that I had to lose weight and quit smoking or I would start having serious issues though. Over the past year I have lost 55 lbs. and went from smoking 3 packs of cigarettes a day to smoking 3 to 5 cigarettes a day.

Being put at a slightly higher risk of some negative complication is not the same thing as being told that you have a 100% chance of developing X if you do Y one more time. Adults constantly weigh a slightly increased risk of some negative consequence against the convenience/pleasure/whatever they get from a behavior. I don't think it's accurate to say that people who fail to moderate do so because they don't fear the consequences. They may be misinformed about exactly how much of an increased risk it causes, or they may not fully understand how unpleasant the negative consequence is, or they may just decide that the pleasure is worth the risk.

Another aspect is someone's belief of whether they think they can be successful or not. There are some interesting studies on people living in poverty that continue to make poor choices that further contribute to their financial problems. And some of it is related to the belief that they will never get ahead, so why not "enjoy" things that they can't really afford. I think that translates to health/fitness as well. A mindset that if you don't really believe in yourself, why even try.

But I'm still not sure what this thread was intended to say, tbh.

I like the idea of giving people probabilities, if they could be based on decent information. Then again, I ignore the population risk for the habit I need to stop. But maybe it would feel scarier if personal vulnerability (family history, genetics etc) were taken into account.

The "next one's going to kill me" conceit actually did help me last time I tried.

The older I get, the more I sense the risk (but still not acutely enough for that to work on its own right now).

kgeyser wrote: »

I think people in this community spend way to much time nitpicking word usage and ascribing deeper psychological meaning to word choice, as though changing "can't" to "won't" will be the breakthrough that causes all weight loss issues to fall into place.

When I see someone here type the word "can't," I don't read that as "I don't want to," "I'm helpless," or "I'm a victim," I read that as the person saying that what they have tried so far has been unsuccessful, and they have been unable to figure out what works for them. I don't think it's matter of not being dedicated or not wanting it enough, they just need help figuring out the formula that will work for them. And I feel like the blind spot we often encounter as a community is giving advice that has worked for us and thinking that it will work for everyone.

( Like )
Just wanted to agree with you about the nit picking of vocabulary. Sometimes it can overtake a thread to the original posters detriment. I try to read posts in the simplest terms possible as written English, for whatever reason, isn't everyone's forte.

I think people giving their personal advice, though maybe inapplicable to the original poster, does give the OP a good variety of options to try to solve their particular problem. The more personal advice posts the more options. It is good for the person posting the advice to realise their way is not always the best way. On that I do agree.

Sorry for the slight detour. Carry on.

Cheers, h.