Natural Remedies for health
Replies
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I use tumeric for inflammation
ginger and peppermint for my stomach
mint for headaches and stuffy noses
b complex helps with energy and mood
catmint, chamomoile, valarian, st johns wort, hops help soothe and sometimes help improve mood
cinnamon helps avoid spikes in blood sugar
honey helps with sore throats
magnesium can help with all sorts of things
evening primrose helps with pms
I try and eat things as whole foods like spinach for b vitamins and iron. or drink them like primrose or honey and cinnamon.
this has helped me avoid some medications for an autoimmune issue that i have, ulcer medication, minimized pain medication, etc. My doctors are happy with using these as treatments
while cico is important, what you eat can help improve your health
Thank you - yes my midwife told me to drink peppermint when pregnancy gave me heartburn and upset stomach, she also told me ginger for morning sickness. And my doctor advised me about spinach helping my iron levels. I'm currently being tested for low magnesium and was told to take supplements because my doctor suspects I'm deficient, will get results soon. I didn't know about evening primrose though, I only heard it helps skin problems. I'll give that a go!
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BinaryPulsar wrote: »Just want to be clear. I have said multiple times that people should go to doctors for serious issues. And should take medicine when it's needed.
There are just also a lot of people saying you must go for some tiny little gas pain in your tummy. And I am just saying also be careful with pharmaceuticals for Non-serious medical issues. They can injure and cause major harm in those circumstances. In no way am I advocating for someone not to treat a child's serious medical issue. I'm just saying also be careful with the overprescribing of meds. I wish I knew that. And I will absolutely educate my children about that. I don't have to. They saw their vibrant and healthy mother become disabled by a med that a dermatologist prescribed. It was not needed. Not explained. Hundreds of people injured by it. It doesn't heal. It harms. Please don't twist my words into something they aren't. And the only reason I was at the dermatologist was because I had also been overprescribed antibiotics which injured me. Meds are serious. And overprescribing has consequences.
To be clear, I agree with this as well. I despise most prescription medications and the doctors who push them. You will never see me take a statin for example (not currently a candidate but the 'rules' keep changing to encourage more sales so ya never know). But, I will never tell anyone to not take them either. I will simple point them to the research I found and let them decide.
The difference is this is actual research not some quack selling foo.0 -
blankiefinder wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »I use tumeric for inflammation
ginger and peppermint for my stomach
mint for headaches and stuffy noses
b complex helps with energy and mood
catmint, chamomoile, valarian, st johns wort, hops help soothe and sometimes help improve mood
cinnamon helps avoid spikes in blood sugar
honey helps with sore throats
magnesium can help with all sorts of things
evening primrose helps with pms
I try and eat things as whole foods like spinach for b vitamins and iron. or drink them like primrose or honey and cinnamon.
this has helped me avoid some medications for an autoimmune issue that i have, ulcer medication, minimized pain medication, etc. My doctors are happy with using these as treatments
while cico is important, what you eat can help improve your health
All of those things you mention are good to do, but if the tummy ache or sore throat or headache persisted despite the natural remedies, it would be appropriate to go to the doctor.
But, just be careful. Because if it's a non-serious issue you don't need to take a med that ends up destroying your health. Medicine is important for serious conditions in which it's needed. But prescribing meds for every tiny little issue (with misdiagnosis also a very real risk) can lead to much more harm. Meds are very serious. Doctors should not be over prescribing, but many do. Doctors should be providing informed consent, but many don't. I was healthy and my life and health was destroyed by incorrectly and over prescribing meds. I trusted the doctors. I thought they were experts in health and healing. I was wrong. And now I am severely injured in a way that doctors can do nothing about (except try to prescribe pain meds that will actually make things worse). I miss my life before doctors prescribed meds I didn't need.
And an unqualified person such as the OP giving medical advice is also a very real risk. Asthma kills. To imply that someone should try to treat their asthma through food and slowly reduce their meds is terrible advice. Asthma doesn't just kill the sick and the weak. It kills healthy people in their prime, who's asthma is well controlled.
Just because one person beat the odds and survived when they only had a 30% chance of survival, doesn't mean that everyone should go that route. She had basically a 1 in 3 chance of surviving. Russian roulette. Some will survive, but most won't.
This post really upsets me. What if your bad advice leads to someone's death? Or their child's??
This times 1000
If you wish to prove Darwin's theory on yourself, I guess there's not much anyone can do to stop you. But if you come to a public forum and attempt to influence others with potentially deadly advice, I have a real issue. There are people around here gullible enough to believe this nonsense. And in this case it is more than just a waste of money. Your advice could actually kill someone.
A family was diagnosed with non-smoking lung cancer too late. She had a friend who, like the OP's mother, managed to beat breast cancer with one round of treatment, I think it was, and then becoming raw vegan. Hooray for her and I'm happy she is in remission. However, another one of my family members is desperately holding on to this as a reason that my aunt died - she and her husband were just not trying hard enough to beat the cancer. She needs something to blame.
For the record, between time of diagnosis and death was ~6 months because it was caught at stage 4. I don't have a lot of tolerance for the "food as medicine" people because of this. Want to use it as a complement? Go nuts... I don't even care if you've decided that's what actually cured your whatever instead of the treatment you received. But to try to pretend that diet will cure cancer and spread this type of misinformation? No. You're doing more damage than you realize.0 -
blankiefinder wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »I use tumeric for inflammation
ginger and peppermint for my stomach
mint for headaches and stuffy noses
b complex helps with energy and mood
catmint, chamomoile, valarian, st johns wort, hops help soothe and sometimes help improve mood
cinnamon helps avoid spikes in blood sugar
honey helps with sore throats
magnesium can help with all sorts of things
evening primrose helps with pms
I try and eat things as whole foods like spinach for b vitamins and iron. or drink them like primrose or honey and cinnamon.
this has helped me avoid some medications for an autoimmune issue that i have, ulcer medication, minimized pain medication, etc. My doctors are happy with using these as treatments
while cico is important, what you eat can help improve your health
All of those things you mention are good to do, but if the tummy ache or sore throat or headache persisted despite the natural remedies, it would be appropriate to go to the doctor.
But, just be careful. Because if it's a non-serious issue you don't need to take a med that ends up destroying your health. Medicine is important for serious conditions in which it's needed. But prescribing meds for every tiny little issue (with misdiagnosis also a very real risk) can lead to much more harm. Meds are very serious. Doctors should not be over prescribing, but many do. Doctors should be providing informed consent, but many don't. I was healthy and my life and health was destroyed by incorrectly and over prescribing meds. I trusted the doctors. I thought they were experts in health and healing. I was wrong. And now I am severely injured in a way that doctors can do nothing about (except try to prescribe pain meds that will actually make things worse). I miss my life before doctors prescribed meds I didn't need.
And an unqualified person such as the OP giving medical advice is also a very real risk. Asthma kills. To imply that someone should try to treat their asthma through food and slowly reduce their meds is terrible advice. Asthma doesn't just kill the sick and the weak. It kills healthy people in their prime, who's asthma is well controlled.
Just because one person beat the odds and survived when they only had a 30% chance of survival, doesn't mean that everyone should go that route. She had basically a 1 in 3 chance of surviving. Russian roulette. Some will survive, but most won't.
This post really upsets me. What if your bad advice leads to someone's death? Or their child's??
This times 1000
If you wish to prove Darwin's theory on yourself, I guess there's not much anyone can do to stop you. But if you come to a public forum and attempt to influence others with potentially deadly advice, I have a real issue. There are people around here gullible enough to believe this nonsense. And in this case it is more than just a waste of money. Your advice could actually kill someone.
A family was diagnosed with non-smoking lung cancer too late. She had a friend who, like the OP's mother, managed to beat breast cancer with one round of treatment, I think it was, and then becoming raw vegan. Hooray for her and I'm happy she is in remission. However, another one of my family members is desperately holding on to this as a reason that my aunt died - she and her husband were just not trying hard enough to beat the cancer. She needs something to blame.
For the record, between time of diagnosis and death was ~6 months because it was caught at stage 4. I don't have a lot of tolerance for the "food as medicine" people because of this. Want to use it as a complement? Go nuts... I don't even care if you've decided that's what actually cured your whatever instead of the treatment you received. But to try to pretend that diet will cure cancer and spread this type of misinformation? No. You're doing more damage than you realize.
QFT0 -
blankiefinder wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »I use tumeric for inflammation
ginger and peppermint for my stomach
mint for headaches and stuffy noses
b complex helps with energy and mood
catmint, chamomoile, valarian, st johns wort, hops help soothe and sometimes help improve mood
cinnamon helps avoid spikes in blood sugar
honey helps with sore throats
magnesium can help with all sorts of things
evening primrose helps with pms
I try and eat things as whole foods like spinach for b vitamins and iron. or drink them like primrose or honey and cinnamon.
this has helped me avoid some medications for an autoimmune issue that i have, ulcer medication, minimized pain medication, etc. My doctors are happy with using these as treatments
while cico is important, what you eat can help improve your health
All of those things you mention are good to do, but if the tummy ache or sore throat or headache persisted despite the natural remedies, it would be appropriate to go to the doctor.
But, just be careful. Because if it's a non-serious issue you don't need to take a med that ends up destroying your health. Medicine is important for serious conditions in which it's needed. But prescribing meds for every tiny little issue (with misdiagnosis also a very real risk) can lead to much more harm. Meds are very serious. Doctors should not be over prescribing, but many do. Doctors should be providing informed consent, but many don't. I was healthy and my life and health was destroyed by incorrectly and over prescribing meds. I trusted the doctors. I thought they were experts in health and healing. I was wrong. And now I am severely injured in a way that doctors can do nothing about (except try to prescribe pain meds that will actually make things worse). I miss my life before doctors prescribed meds I didn't need.
And an unqualified person such as the OP giving medical advice is also a very real risk. Asthma kills. To imply that someone should try to treat their asthma through food and slowly reduce their meds is terrible advice. Asthma doesn't just kill the sick and the weak. It kills healthy people in their prime, who's asthma is well controlled.
Just because one person beat the odds and survived when they only had a 30% chance of survival, doesn't mean that everyone should go that route. She had basically a 1 in 3 chance of surviving. Russian roulette. Some will survive, but most won't.
This post really upsets me. What if your bad advice leads to someone's death? Or their child's??
I think it's incredibly irresponsible of MFP to let this thread stand. I know they would be held harmless in the event of a lawsuit, (the opinions expressed here do not represent MFP, its employees, blah, blah, blah) but why isn't moral conscience coming into play, here? This thread should not exist.
@Alex0 -
BinaryPulsar wrote: »Just want to be clear. I have said multiple times that people should go to doctors for serious issues. And should take medicine when it's needed.
There are just also a lot of people saying you must go for some tiny little gas pain in your tummy. And I am just saying also be careful with pharmaceuticals for Non-serious medical issues. They can injure and cause major harm in those circumstances. In no way am I advocating for someone not to treat a child's serious medical issue. I'm just saying also be careful with the overprescribing of meds. I wish I knew that. And I will absolutely educate my children about that. I don't have to. They saw their vibrant and healthy mother become disabled by a med that a dermatologist prescribed. It was not needed. Not explained. Hundreds of people injured by it. It doesn't heal. It harms. Please don't twist my words into something they aren't. And the only reason I was at the dermatologist was because I had also been overprescribed antibiotics which injured me. Meds are serious. And overprescribing has consequences.
To be clear, I agree with this as well. I despise most prescription medications and the doctors who push them. You will never see me take a statin for example (not currently a candidate but the 'rules' keep changing to encourage more sales so ya never know). But, I will never tell anyone to not take them either. I will simple point them to the research I found and let them decide.
The difference is this is actual research not some quack selling foo.
Thank you for understanding what I was actually saying. I also think everyone should properly treat cancer. Although depending on the stage of cancer and the treatment available and quality of life that is a personal decision made between a patient, the doctors, and the family. I also think it's no good to just randomly ask what supplements are healthy for what. That's a decision to be made by going to doctors, reading research on your specific issue, talking among a support group of people that have the same (non-life threatening) health condition.
Edit to add: food is not medicine for cancer. But, it can be for a food related disease. And it means food is the medicine of prevention for some diseases (not cancer).0 -
Mercola is one of the biggest fear-mongers, quacks, and snake-oil salesmen to plague the internet...
+1000. MercoLOLa is 100% quack.
One good article from sciencebasedmedicine.org (just one of many articles discussing what a woo peddler he is) - Nine Reasons to Completely Ignore Joseph Mercola.
One of the first things they say is highly telling:Mercola.com is a horrible chimera of tabloid journalism, late-night infomercials, and amateur pre-scientific medicine, and is the primary web presence of Joseph Mercola. Unfortunately, it is also one of the more popular alternative medicine sites on the web and as such is uncommonly efficient at spreading misinformation. I am not a fan, and have addressed his dross in the past.
lol I remember one time that someone quoted some mercola crap on facebook and it was supposed to be a health page and I proved that the stuff they were spouting was crap and that mercola was a quack. turns out its his wifes page and she was NOT happy LMAO
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blankiefinder wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »I use tumeric for inflammation
ginger and peppermint for my stomach
mint for headaches and stuffy noses
b complex helps with energy and mood
catmint, chamomoile, valarian, st johns wort, hops help soothe and sometimes help improve mood
cinnamon helps avoid spikes in blood sugar
honey helps with sore throats
magnesium can help with all sorts of things
evening primrose helps with pms
I try and eat things as whole foods like spinach for b vitamins and iron. or drink them like primrose or honey and cinnamon.
this has helped me avoid some medications for an autoimmune issue that i have, ulcer medication, minimized pain medication, etc. My doctors are happy with using these as treatments
while cico is important, what you eat can help improve your health
All of those things you mention are good to do, but if the tummy ache or sore throat or headache persisted despite the natural remedies, it would be appropriate to go to the doctor.
But, just be careful. Because if it's a non-serious issue you don't need to take a med that ends up destroying your health. Medicine is important for serious conditions in which it's needed. But prescribing meds for every tiny little issue (with misdiagnosis also a very real risk) can lead to much more harm. Meds are very serious. Doctors should not be over prescribing, but many do. Doctors should be providing informed consent, but many don't. I was healthy and my life and health was destroyed by incorrectly and over prescribing meds. I trusted the doctors. I thought they were experts in health and healing. I was wrong. And now I am severely injured in a way that doctors can do nothing about (except try to prescribe pain meds that will actually make things worse). I miss my life before doctors prescribed meds I didn't need.
And an unqualified person such as the OP giving medical advice is also a very real risk. Asthma kills. To imply that someone should try to treat their asthma through food and slowly reduce their meds is terrible advice. Asthma doesn't just kill the sick and the weak. It kills healthy people in their prime, who's asthma is well controlled.
Just because one person beat the odds and survived when they only had a 30% chance of survival, doesn't mean that everyone should go that route. She had basically a 1 in 3 chance of surviving. Russian roulette. Some will survive, but most won't.
This post really upsets me. What if your bad advice leads to someone's death? Or their child's??
I agree as well. and some supplements can aggravate asthma(been there done that). I would not advise anyone to go off asthma meds or supplement with other things that could cause an interaction with their meds,and to ask the dr to reduce meds as well can be dangerous. because with asthma for a lot of people you will have times where its like you dont have asthma at all and other times where you will have flare up after flare up.as for improving asthma for some exercise and losing weight alone can help the symptoms but you cant cure or get rid of asthma. you can be symptom free for years and not need meds,but years later down the road you can have an attack and die. no matter what meds I take or supplements I take my asthma hasnt improved because of those things. mine improved due to exercise and losing weight. yes I was able to get off some of the meds but only because of the weight loss and exercise. I still take a maintenance inhaler for my asthma because its severe without it and wouldnt dare to stop it for fear of a deathly attack(I have been close to death before and not going to risk it).
most doctors will not tell you to take supplements for this and that because most doctors dont study those types of things in medical school,I have asked my drs if they study those things in medical school and they tell me most over the counter things are not something they study much in med school.my doctors have always told me to eat as healthy as I can and to get my exercise. they never told me take X,Y,or Z for this or that. and when sick they just tell me lots of fluids and rest.There are a lot of things out there to claim to help certain health issues but sometimes people have health issues that can only be helped with prescription meds.
as for cancer. diet doesnt always help either. my sons best friend died from cancer over 5 years ago,he tried the diets(eating whole foods,non gmo,organic,etc foods) because he thought it would be better than the chemo or radiation and he went downhill a lot faster since he stopped the treatments. so those things will not work for everyone. I have a friend who just had a double mastectomy and she has to be on chemo pills(yes they have them) for the next 5 years and she is having all sorts of issues. shes doing pretty well and shes not on a special diet either.she is still here almost 2 years later and in remission but that could be due to the meds too.0 -
GemFromJannah wrote: »I don't take supplements I eat the actual food. Eg I chop up two cloves of garlic & drink them down with water or I drink turmeric milk (Google golden milk) I eat cinnamon on my porridge or fruit salad. So it's all safe. Or I cut out wheat so don't eat bread pasta etc
I have noticed a positive difference to be honest. I haven't needed pain relief for my arthritis lately and my medication for asthma was reduced.
My mum has really bad cancer and they said she needed chemotherapy and to remove her breast, but she refused! She changed her diet, only ate organic, cut out dairy, ate things like Spirulina etc and they operated to just remove the lump and she got better, when they had said she only had 30% survival rate.
So I strongly believe there are properties in certain foods that aid the body & fight illness, just how certain foods damage the body & cause illness. It's not false, it's like saying a kiwi doesn't have vit C and doesn't fight infection. We know fruit has vit C eg lemon & vit C fights infection. Other foods has vitamins & minerals that help the body.
Scientific studies have been done on wheat that proved it had a negative impact on mental health patients, because it causes a release of certain hormones, which activate the "addiction" type behaviour.
All foods have properties in them that help the body or destroy it. My friends grandma was badly diabetic & couldn't have tomatoes but after a few weeks of cinnamon in her herbal tea she could have tomato.
I'm not sure about pill-form supplements, I'm refering to the real food form
Doubtful. Very, very doubtful.0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GemFromJannah wrote: »I don't take supplements I eat the actual food. Eg I chop up two cloves of garlic & drink them down with water or I drink turmeric milk (Google golden milk) I eat cinnamon on my porridge or fruit salad. So it's all safe. Or I cut out wheat so don't eat bread pasta etc
I have noticed a positive difference to be honest. I haven't needed pain relief for my arthritis lately and my medication for asthma was reduced.
My mum has really bad cancer and they said she needed chemotherapy and to remove her breast, but she refused! She changed her diet, only ate organic, cut out dairy, ate things like Spirulina etc and they operated to just remove the lump and she got better, when they had said she only had 30% survival rate.
So I strongly believe there are properties in certain foods that aid the body & fight illness, just how certain foods damage the body & cause illness. It's not false, it's like saying a kiwi doesn't have vit C and doesn't fight infection. We know fruit has vit C eg lemon & vit C fights infection. Other foods has vitamins & minerals that help the body.
Scientific studies have been done on wheat that proved it had a negative impact on mental health patients, because it causes a release of certain hormones, which activate the "addiction" type behaviour.
All foods have properties in them that help the body or destroy it. My friends grandma was badly diabetic & couldn't have tomatoes but after a few weeks of cinnamon in her herbal tea she could have tomato.
I'm not sure about pill-form supplements, I'm refering to the real food form
Doubtful. Very, very doubtful.
Worked for Steve Jobs.
Oh wait.0 -
PikaKnight wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GemFromJannah wrote: »I don't take supplements I eat the actual food. Eg I chop up two cloves of garlic & drink them down with water or I drink turmeric milk (Google golden milk) I eat cinnamon on my porridge or fruit salad. So it's all safe. Or I cut out wheat so don't eat bread pasta etc
I have noticed a positive difference to be honest. I haven't needed pain relief for my arthritis lately and my medication for asthma was reduced.
My mum has really bad cancer and they said she needed chemotherapy and to remove her breast, but she refused! She changed her diet, only ate organic, cut out dairy, ate things like Spirulina etc and they operated to just remove the lump and she got better, when they had said she only had 30% survival rate.
So I strongly believe there are properties in certain foods that aid the body & fight illness, just how certain foods damage the body & cause illness. It's not false, it's like saying a kiwi doesn't have vit C and doesn't fight infection. We know fruit has vit C eg lemon & vit C fights infection. Other foods has vitamins & minerals that help the body.
Scientific studies have been done on wheat that proved it had a negative impact on mental health patients, because it causes a release of certain hormones, which activate the "addiction" type behaviour.
All foods have properties in them that help the body or destroy it. My friends grandma was badly diabetic & couldn't have tomatoes but after a few weeks of cinnamon in her herbal tea she could have tomato.
I'm not sure about pill-form supplements, I'm refering to the real food form
Doubtful. Very, very doubtful.
Worked for Steve Jobs.
Oh wait.
*Gasp*
TBH, I don't think it works for anyone who decides to take an all-natural approach!
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I use tumeric for inflammation
ginger and peppermint for my stomach
mint for headaches and stuffy noses
b complex helps with energy and mood
catmint, chamomoile, valarian, st johns wort, hops help soothe and sometimes help improve mood
cinnamon helps avoid spikes in blood sugar
honey helps with sore throats
magnesium can help with all sorts of things
evening primrose helps with pms
I try and eat things as whole foods like spinach for b vitamins and iron. or drink them like primrose or honey and cinnamon.
this has helped me avoid some medications for an autoimmune issue that i have, ulcer medication, minimized pain medication, etc. My doctors are happy with using these as treatments
while cico is important, what you eat can help improve your health
The vast majority of the supplements you just listed are not safe for everyone though. That is why a thread like this is just not safe.
Say I just read your post and thought great, I get PMS and inflammation. I'll take turmeric and EPO. Problem being I'm epileptic and have gallbladder issues.
They are not safe for everyone and to suggest them for healing/treatment is irresponsible imo.0 -
Everyone should check with their health care practitioner before adding supplements. It's still ok for adults to talk about supplements. That they then research and ask their health care practitioner about. Although, I agree people shouldn't just randomly take supplements. You should have a reason for why you suspect it might help you (and not hurt you)0
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I'll be very disappointed if this gets shut down. I mean, the Terms of Use states
"MyFitnessPal is not a medical professional, and MyFitnessPal does not provide medical services or render medical advice. The Services are not a substitute for the advice of a medical professional, and the information made available on or through the Services should not be relied upon when making medical decisions, or to diagnose or treat a medical or health condition."
To go down the path of talking about what happens in the case of lawsuits, etc. is ridiculous IMO because the terms clearly state that nothing here is a substitute for a medical professional. And no one's suggesting that if you have a life threatening condition, you should abandon prescription drugs altogether and try to do a search on natural methods that can help on its own with the condition.
People also need to use common sense. Just because a nutrient or natural supplement can help with a condition doesn't mean that one should go out and start taking massive doses.0 -
Zinc for sinus/colds. Also daily sinus rinse with saline.0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »I'll be very disappointed if this gets shut down. I mean, the Terms of Use states
"MyFitnessPal is not a medical professional, and MyFitnessPal does not provide medical services or render medical advice. The Services are not a substitute for the advice of a medical professional, and the information made available on or through the Services should not be relied upon when making medical decisions, or to diagnose or treat a medical or health condition."
To go down the path of talking about what happens in the case of lawsuits, etc. is ridiculous IMO because the terms clearly state that nothing here is a substitute for a medical professional. And no one's suggesting that if you have a life threatening condition, you should abandon prescription drugs altogether and try to do a search on natural methods that can help on its own with the condition.
People also need to use common sense. Just because a nutrient or natural supplement can help with a condition doesn't mean that one should go out and start taking massive doses.
Did you even read this thread? Op is advocating bouncing on a trampoline to relieve swelling in lymph nodes. Swollen lymph nodes can be a sign of cancer and no amount of bouncing on a trampoline is going to cure cancer. Op also advocated seeking natural remedies for curing breast cancer.
So yea, this thread is full of dangerous woo and should be closed.0 -
+1. People relying on advertisements to address whatever issues they may think they have, may be just doing some Russian Roulette.BinaryPulsar wrote: »Everyone should check with their health care practitioner before adding supplements. It's still ok for adults to talk about supplements. That they then research and ask their health care practitioner about. Although, I agree people shouldn't just randomly take supplements. You should have a reason for why you suspect it might help you (and not hurt you)
Don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but the majority of supplements are regulated by the DSHEA. FDA doesn't regulate them UNLESS there's been significant complaints on a supplement. By then, it may be too late.
The majority of supplements are manufactured by 3rd party companies and don't do voluntary testing on products. Since many of the raw materials are bought cheap as possible, much of it comes from places like China which have NO REGULATION on purity of product. What could this mean? That the product you purchase may likely have contaminants NOT LISTED on the label. So if someone gave you a bottle of pills with no label, would you take that persons word that it's safe for ingestion? Then why trust that the DSHEA is assuring you their type of "regulation" should be trusted?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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GemFromJannah wrote: »www.Mercola.com
This website is very useful & interesting for anybody who supports natural remedies - Dr.Mercola is a qualified & experienced nutritionist
That is the worst website on the internet.
Seriously.
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GemFromJannah wrote: »My mum has really bad cancer and they said she needed chemotherapy and to remove her breast, but she refused! She changed her diet, only ate organic, cut out dairy, ate things like Spirulina etc and they operated to just remove the lump and she got better, when they had said she only had 30% survival rate.
"They operated to remove the lump and she got better".
It's as obvious as dogs' doovers.
The operation cured her.
Hello?!!!0 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »I use tumeric for inflammation
ginger and peppermint for my stomach
mint for headaches and stuffy noses
b complex helps with energy and mood
catmint, chamomoile, valarian, st johns wort, hops help soothe and sometimes help improve mood
cinnamon helps avoid spikes in blood sugar
honey helps with sore throats
magnesium can help with all sorts of things
evening primrose helps with pms
I try and eat things as whole foods like spinach for b vitamins and iron. or drink them like primrose or honey and cinnamon.
this has helped me avoid some medications for an autoimmune issue that i have, ulcer medication, minimized pain medication, etc. My doctors are happy with using these as treatments
while cico is important, what you eat can help improve your health
The vast majority of the supplements you just listed are not safe for everyone though. That is why a thread like this is just not safe.
Say I just read your post and thought great, I get PMS and inflammation. I'll take turmeric and EPO. Problem being I'm epileptic and have gallbladder issues.
They are not safe for everyone and to suggest them for healing/treatment is irresponsible imo.
Firstly, I was actually asking others for their advice, I wasn't giving advice! I've not once told anybody to take anything, I haven't suggested one time for anybody to take a supplement for their condition. I asked advice for my personal circumstances! I also spoke about my personal experience seeing food help help. I've also not one single time told anybody to stop medication or to stop seeing a doctor - in fact I said to seek medical advice, I also clearly stated that myself & my mother both still had medical treatment but used good nutrition as a supporting aid!
I'm from UK and our whole entire NHS medical system recommends foods openly for certain health conditions, see here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Iron.aspx
And here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-A.aspx
And here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-B.aspx
And here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-C.aspx
And there's plenty more on the website!
It's very well known that food contains vitamins & minerals that aid health of the body & lacking certain nutrients causes deficiencies from sickness, and you can improve your health by eating these foods. Which is why the NHS medical system educates the UK about it, it's very common information advertised by doctors here!
I never said treat cancer with food alone, or asthma with food alone. I mentioned both myself & my mother had treatment medically, BUT we also ate food containing certain nutrients known to help the body. For instance, during her radiation therapy she used foods known for protecting the skin with vitamin E, and her skin didn't burn from the radiation. I mentioned she had surgery to remove the lump & had radiation. Show me where I said she did not have medical help? I also said I've been to the doctor for my swollen glands and had test after test and they've found no medical cause, nothing medically wrong & just say it's blocked lymph glands, so after the doctors offering no medical help or suggestion I researched natural help & found rebounding. I didn't say to ignore swollen glands or not seek advice from w doctor about them! Show me where I said if you have cancer or asthma or any other health problem, do not take medical help? I didn't!
After surgery my mum wanted to prevent her wound being infected, so she ate foods known for fighting infection, high in vitC. She wanted to help the skin and scar heal, so ate foods with vitE. Doctors treated scurvy with kiwis when sailors centuries ago had a scurvy outbreak. It's a known fact lacking vitC can contribute to scurvy and to avoid it, eat lots of citrus fruit with vitC. Honestly I'm so so baffled how you can really think food doesn't contain nutrients to nourish the body? You honestly think health is only about how much fat you have and weight loss alone helps? No no no! Go to your doctor and ask them to tell you how to ensure you do not become deficient in vitamins and minerals, ask them what foods contain what nutrients and ask them what health problems occur from different deficiencies & you will see there's a BIG correlation between the vitamins & minerals in food, aiding the body's health & lacking these vitamins and minerals can harm your health. This is why we eat! We eat to get these vitamins and minerals to keep our body alive!
I was ignorant to think we are mature adults on here with common sense and would obviously make our own choices and not just read somebody say "eat a lemon when you have a cold" and automatically think it's true, what kind of gullibility is that?! Obviously do your own research and as I've stated time and again, seek medical advice from your doctor and do not stop your medication until you see symptoms improve and even then you have to ask your doctor to reduce medication and they won't reduce it unless they think it's safe to. So I haven't given dangerous advice, it makes
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+1. People relying on advertisements to address whatever issues they may think they have, may be just doing some Russian Roulette.BinaryPulsar wrote: »Everyone should check with their health care practitioner before adding supplements. It's still ok for adults to talk about supplements. That they then research and ask their health care practitioner about. Although, I agree people shouldn't just randomly take supplements. You should have a reason for why you suspect it might help you (and not hurt you)
Don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but the majority of supplements are regulated by the DSHEA. FDA doesn't regulate them UNLESS there's been significant complaints on a supplement. By then, it may be too late.
The majority of supplements are manufactured by 3rd party companies and don't do voluntary testing on products. Since many of the raw materials are bought cheap as possible, much of it comes from places like China which have NO REGULATION on purity of product. What could this mean? That the product you purchase may likely have contaminants NOT LISTED on the label. So if someone gave you a bottle of pills with no label, would you take that persons word that it's safe for ingestion? Then why trust that the DSHEA is assuring you their type of "regulation" should be trusted?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I mentioned already I do not take supplements (apart from multivitamins) I eat it in raw organic form eg real raw garlic chopped up and swallowed down with water, not garlic supplement. I eat turmeric powder from real turmeric root by drinking a teaspoon in warm milk with real raw organic honey. I do not take supplement pills. I just include the real items in my diet & I haven't suggested anybody else to take a supplement either. Even when mentioning my mother I spoke of her eating real food, like seeds, not taking supplements containing the seed oil.
This post has been twisted & taken way out of context. I suggest you all to read all of my posts again slowly & accurately. You will find 1) I have advised medical treatment & the advice of a doctor & not once advised somebody to not get medical treatment 2) to eat real food, to get nutrients from real food items, I haven't recommended supplements 3) I have explained what "nutrition means" eg understanding the nutrients in food & how they nourish the body to prevent illness or how to help treat illness as a supportive aid to medicine, to clarify the angle I'm taking (it's not quackery, I'm discussing real nutritional benefits) 4) never one time recommended anything for anybody else & only merely asked advice for my own personal situation and spoke of my personal experiences 5) gave supporting evidence from the UK National Health Service which clearly states foods contain vitamins & minerals which aid the health of the body & can cause illness of the body becomes deficient & a list of foods to eat to consume certain nutrients.
Too many of you focus on just losing fat as a way to keep healthy, rather than considering what nutrients will help to keep your body healthy & alive. Losing weight alone will not keep you healthy! Slim people get sick, often due to a low immune system or a vitamin or mineral deficiency (as do overwheight people also). My post was "Natural Remedies For Health" - natural does not mean processed supplements, natural means natural aka real natural food! And anybody who thinks real nutritious food can not contribute towards good health, is seriously lacking knowledge in the topic of nutrition (ps this is a good & nutrition board, a place to discuss nutrition! Does anybody even know what nutrition means here? Lol gosh!)0 -
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PikaKnight wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GemFromJannah wrote: »I don't take supplements I eat the actual food. Eg I chop up two cloves of garlic & drink them down with water or I drink turmeric milk (Google golden milk) I eat cinnamon on my porridge or fruit salad. So it's all safe. Or I cut out wheat so don't eat bread pasta etc
I have noticed a positive difference to be honest. I haven't needed pain relief for my arthritis lately and my medication for asthma was reduced.
My mum has really bad cancer and they said she needed chemotherapy and to remove her breast, but she refused! She changed her diet, only ate organic, cut out dairy, ate things like Spirulina etc and they operated to just remove the lump and she got better, when they had said she only had 30% survival rate.
So I strongly believe there are properties in certain foods that aid the body & fight illness, just how certain foods damage the body & cause illness. It's not false, it's like saying a kiwi doesn't have vit C and doesn't fight infection. We know fruit has vit C eg lemon & vit C fights infection. Other foods has vitamins & minerals that help the body.
Scientific studies have been done on wheat that proved it had a negative impact on mental health patients, because it causes a release of certain hormones, which activate the "addiction" type behaviour.
All foods have properties in them that help the body or destroy it. My friends grandma was badly diabetic & couldn't have tomatoes but after a few weeks of cinnamon in her herbal tea she could have tomato.
I'm not sure about pill-form supplements, I'm refering to the real food form
Doubtful. Very, very doubtful.
Worked for Steve Jobs.
Oh wait.
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So many people posting against Mercola all in the same thread.
That's clear proof he's right and you're all paid shills.... sorry, I can't keep typing that without laughing.
I dislike the origin fallacy, but Mercola is almost an anti-fact site, things that I know to be true but show up on Mercola, I double check if I believe in them - like things that once true, become wrong because Mercola published them. Mercola can say something like "eat more fruits and vegetables for better health", and I start wondering if I should open a bag of Doritos.0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »
Yep....our local rebound centre claim it kills cancer as well.....#headpalm#0 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »I use tumeric for inflammation
ginger and peppermint for my stomach
mint for headaches and stuffy noses
b complex helps with energy and mood
catmint, chamomoile, valarian, st johns wort, hops help soothe and sometimes help improve mood
cinnamon helps avoid spikes in blood sugar
honey helps with sore throats
magnesium can help with all sorts of things
evening primrose helps with pms
I try and eat things as whole foods like spinach for b vitamins and iron. or drink them like primrose or honey and cinnamon.
this has helped me avoid some medications for an autoimmune issue that i have, ulcer medication, minimized pain medication, etc. My doctors are happy with using these as treatments
while cico is important, what you eat can help improve your health
The vast majority of the supplements you just listed are not safe for everyone though. That is why a thread like this is just not safe.
Say I just read your post and thought great, I get PMS and inflammation. I'll take turmeric and EPO. Problem being I'm epileptic and have gallbladder issues.
They are not safe for everyone and to suggest them for healing/treatment is irresponsible imo.
i also said I was under a doctor's care
any time you use something to treat something, you should always run it by your doctor, especially if you have underlying conditions
i also don't take supplements. i ingest food and drink.
taking care of yourself is your responsibility, i just said what works for me0 -
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GemFromJannah wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »I use tumeric for inflammation
ginger and peppermint for my stomach
mint for headaches and stuffy noses
b complex helps with energy and mood
catmint, chamomoile, valarian, st johns wort, hops help soothe and sometimes help improve mood
cinnamon helps avoid spikes in blood sugar
honey helps with sore throats
magnesium can help with all sorts of things
evening primrose helps with pms
I try and eat things as whole foods like spinach for b vitamins and iron. or drink them like primrose or honey and cinnamon.
this has helped me avoid some medications for an autoimmune issue that i have, ulcer medication, minimized pain medication, etc. My doctors are happy with using these as treatments
while cico is important, what you eat can help improve your health
The vast majority of the supplements you just listed are not safe for everyone though. That is why a thread like this is just not safe.
Say I just read your post and thought great, I get PMS and inflammation. I'll take turmeric and EPO. Problem being I'm epileptic and have gallbladder issues.
They are not safe for everyone and to suggest them for healing/treatment is irresponsible imo.
Firstly, I was actually asking others for their advice, I wasn't giving advice! I've not once told anybody to take anything, I haven't suggested one time for anybody to take a supplement for their condition. I asked advice for my personal circumstances! I also spoke about my personal experience seeing food help help. I've also not one single time told anybody to stop medication or to stop seeing a doctor - in fact I said to seek medical advice, I also clearly stated that myself & my mother both still had medical treatment but used good nutrition as a supporting aid!
I'm from UK and our whole entire NHS medical system recommends foods openly for certain health conditions, see here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Iron.aspx
And here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-A.aspx
And here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-B.aspx
And here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-C.aspx
And there's plenty more on the website!
It's very well known that food contains vitamins & minerals that aid health of the body & lacking certain nutrients causes deficiencies from sickness, and you can improve your health by eating these foods. Which is why the NHS medical system educates the UK about it, it's very common information advertised by doctors here!
I never said treat cancer with food alone, or asthma with food alone. I mentioned both myself & my mother had treatment medically, BUT we also ate food containing certain nutrients known to help the body. For instance, during her radiation therapy she used foods known for protecting the skin with vitamin E, and her skin didn't burn from the radiation. I mentioned she had surgery to remove the lump & had radiation. Show me where I said she did not have medical help? I also said I've been to the doctor for my swollen glands and had test after test and they've found no medical cause, nothing medically wrong & just say it's blocked lymph glands, so after the doctors offering no medical help or suggestion I researched natural help & found rebounding. I didn't say to ignore swollen glands or not seek advice from w doctor about them! Show me where I said if you have cancer or asthma or any other health problem, do not take medical help? I didn't!
After surgery my mum wanted to prevent her wound being infected, so she ate foods known for fighting infection, high in vitC. She wanted to help the skin and scar heal, so ate foods with vitE. Doctors treated scurvy with kiwis when sailors centuries ago had a scurvy outbreak. It's a known fact lacking vitC can contribute to scurvy and to avoid it, eat lots of citrus fruit with vitC. Honestly I'm so so baffled how you can really think food doesn't contain nutrients to nourish the body? You honestly think health is only about how much fat you have and weight loss alone helps? No no no! Go to your doctor and ask them to tell you how to ensure you do not become deficient in vitamins and minerals, ask them what foods contain what nutrients and ask them what health problems occur from different deficiencies & you will see there's a BIG correlation between the vitamins & minerals in food, aiding the body's health & lacking these vitamins and minerals can harm your health. This is why we eat! We eat to get these vitamins and minerals to keep our body alive!
I was ignorant to think we are mature adults on here with common sense and would obviously make our own choices and not just read somebody say "eat a lemon when you have a cold" and automatically think it's true, what kind of gullibility is that?! Obviously do your own research and as I've stated time and again, seek medical advice from your doctor and do not stop your medication until you see symptoms improve and even then you have to ask your doctor to reduce medication and they won't reduce it unless they think it's safe to. So I haven't given dangerous advice, it makes
In an earlier post you said your mum had a small amount of radiation. That's why she didn't burn.
As a cancer survivor I'm disgusted that you are discussing your mother's medical history to prove a point on a forum. I hope you asked her before posting all of this. My daughter would never violate my privacy like this.
Believe all you want that these natural cures are why your mum has survived so far. I think it was the radiation and surgery that did it. Not vitamin E or any of the natural crap she took.
While I agree that it's fine for this thread to be here, it's really idiotic to compare curing a common cold with natural remedies along with curing a life threatening disease like cancer with natural remedies.
My oncologist was very clear on supplements. Don't take them because they could interfere in the medical treatments I received. She also said that changing my diet to get rid of the cancer was useless. There's no doubt in my mind that my cancer doctors would do anything to have their jobs eliminated because they aren't needed. They see massive suffering every day. If cancer could be cured by eating some obscure plant, we'd all be eating it now.0 -
But she isn't saying to completely throw out all professional treatment when it comes to something like breast cancer. Rather, I'd say her point is about maximizing the potential benefits of natural methods in conjunction with the minimal amount of formal treatment necessary.ForecasterJason wrote: »I'll be very disappointed if this gets shut down. I mean, the Terms of Use states
"MyFitnessPal is not a medical professional, and MyFitnessPal does not provide medical services or render medical advice. The Services are not a substitute for the advice of a medical professional, and the information made available on or through the Services should not be relied upon when making medical decisions, or to diagnose or treat a medical or health condition."
To go down the path of talking about what happens in the case of lawsuits, etc. is ridiculous IMO because the terms clearly state that nothing here is a substitute for a medical professional. And no one's suggesting that if you have a life threatening condition, you should abandon prescription drugs altogether and try to do a search on natural methods that can help on its own with the condition.
People also need to use common sense. Just because a nutrient or natural supplement can help with a condition doesn't mean that one should go out and start taking massive doses.
Did you even read this thread? Op is advocating bouncing on a trampoline to relieve swelling in lymph nodes. Swollen lymph nodes can be a sign of cancer and no amount of bouncing on a trampoline is going to cure cancer. Op also advocated seeking natural remedies for curing breast cancer.
So yea, this thread is full of dangerous woo and should be closed.
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GemFromJannah wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »I use tumeric for inflammation
ginger and peppermint for my stomach
mint for headaches and stuffy noses
b complex helps with energy and mood
catmint, chamomoile, valarian, st johns wort, hops help soothe and sometimes help improve mood
cinnamon helps avoid spikes in blood sugar
honey helps with sore throats
magnesium can help with all sorts of things
evening primrose helps with pms
I try and eat things as whole foods like spinach for b vitamins and iron. or drink them like primrose or honey and cinnamon.
this has helped me avoid some medications for an autoimmune issue that i have, ulcer medication, minimized pain medication, etc. My doctors are happy with using these as treatments
while cico is important, what you eat can help improve your health
The vast majority of the supplements you just listed are not safe for everyone though. That is why a thread like this is just not safe.
Say I just read your post and thought great, I get PMS and inflammation. I'll take turmeric and EPO. Problem being I'm epileptic and have gallbladder issues.
They are not safe for everyone and to suggest them for healing/treatment is irresponsible imo.
Firstly, I was actually asking others for their advice, I wasn't giving advice! I've not once told anybody to take anything, I haven't suggested one time for anybody to take a supplement for their condition. I asked advice for my personal circumstances! I also spoke about my personal experience seeing food help help. I've also not one single time told anybody to stop medication or to stop seeing a doctor - in fact I said to seek medical advice, I also clearly stated that myself & my mother both still had medical treatment but used good nutrition as a supporting aid!
I'm from UK and our whole entire NHS medical system recommends foods openly for certain health conditions, see here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Iron.aspx
And here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-A.aspx
And here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-B.aspx
And here:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-C.aspx
And there's plenty more on the website!
It's very well known that food contains vitamins & minerals that aid health of the body & lacking certain nutrients causes deficiencies from sickness, and you can improve your health by eating these foods. Which is why the NHS medical system educates the UK about it, it's very common information advertised by doctors here!
I never said treat cancer with food alone, or asthma with food alone. I mentioned both myself & my mother had treatment medically, BUT we also ate food containing certain nutrients known to help the body. For instance, during her radiation therapy she used foods known for protecting the skin with vitamin E, and her skin didn't burn from the radiation. I mentioned she had surgery to remove the lump & had radiation. Show me where I said she did not have medical help? I also said I've been to the doctor for my swollen glands and had test after test and they've found no medical cause, nothing medically wrong & just say it's blocked lymph glands, so after the doctors offering no medical help or suggestion I researched natural help & found rebounding. I didn't say to ignore swollen glands or not seek advice from w doctor about them! Show me where I said if you have cancer or asthma or any other health problem, do not take medical help? I didn't!
After surgery my mum wanted to prevent her wound being infected, so she ate foods known for fighting infection, high in vitC. She wanted to help the skin and scar heal, so ate foods with vitE. Doctors treated scurvy with kiwis when sailors centuries ago had a scurvy outbreak. It's a known fact lacking vitC can contribute to scurvy and to avoid it, eat lots of citrus fruit with vitC. Honestly I'm so so baffled how you can really think food doesn't contain nutrients to nourish the body? You honestly think health is only about how much fat you have and weight loss alone helps? No no no! Go to your doctor and ask them to tell you how to ensure you do not become deficient in vitamins and minerals, ask them what foods contain what nutrients and ask them what health problems occur from different deficiencies & you will see there's a BIG correlation between the vitamins & minerals in food, aiding the body's health & lacking these vitamins and minerals can harm your health. This is why we eat! We eat to get these vitamins and minerals to keep our body alive!
I was ignorant to think we are mature adults on here with common sense and would obviously make our own choices and not just read somebody say "eat a lemon when you have a cold" and automatically think it's true, what kind of gullibility is that?! Obviously do your own research and as I've stated time and again, seek medical advice from your doctor and do not stop your medication until you see symptoms improve and even then you have to ask your doctor to reduce medication and they won't reduce it unless they think it's safe to. So I haven't given dangerous advice, it makes
I've just read through most of this thread and agree with some other posters that some of what has been written is fairly alarming. And as someone who always looks to science to confirm or refute claims, just thought I'd drop a few points on some of the stuff that's been posted here.
While there is benefit to vitamins and nutrients aiding the body when someone is deficient there is also scientific consensus that if a person is not deficient there is not necessarily any need to take additional supplements.
Science Based Medicine https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/tag/vitamins/
"One of the greatest triumphs of marketing over evidence was the incredible rise of vitamin supplement use in the 20th century. Supplement makers successfully created a “health halo” around vitamins, and taking your vitamins became a virtue, something mothers told their children to do. The evidence, however, does not tell such a simple story. In recent years it has become increasingly apparent that there are unintended consequences to taking vitamin supplements, and in fact there may be a net negative health effect. This is especially true for those who are healthy and don’t need vitamins, and for those who exceed the recommend dosages."
You mention the NHS. Well I am also from the UK and you may remember a month so ago the NHS was looking to remove Homeopathy from its list of treatments. Something to consider based on some of what you're saying.
BBC article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34744858
"But the NHS itself says: "There is no good-quality evidence that homeopathy is effective as a treatment for any health condition." The Good Thinking Society has been campaigning for homeopathy to be added to the NHS blacklist - known formally as Schedule 1 - of drugs that cannot be prescribed by GPs."
Claiming that anything other than conventional medicine can cure cancer. I'll just leave this link here.
Science Based Medicine https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/this-book-wont-cure-your-cancer-but-it-will-help-you-think-more-clearly-about-it/
"He describes how people ignore reality to cling to their beliefs. When alternative medicine proponent Chris Woollams’ daughter survived for longer than average, he credited her alternative treatments; when her tumor recurred and killed her, he blamed her for not following his regime properly. When Wellness Warrior Jessica Ainscough died, her followers claimed it was because she didn’t do Gerson therapy correctly. Those who get both conventional and alternative treatment and survive often refuse to give credit to the conventional treatment.
…it doesn’t matter what you think cured you or made you feel better. Opinion doesn’t come into it, only the biology and science.
Testimonials abound. “It worked for me” is a kind of “social proof” but in reality is no evidence at all. In fact, personal testimonies are the enemy of proof. We hear about successes, but we don’t hear about the failures because no records are kept (until the internet anyway). To be taken seriously, a theory has to be falsifiable. Excusing failures by saying the treatment wasn’t properly followed leaves no way to determine whether it actually works. Controlled scientific studies can test whether it works; they are based on falsifiability. Proponents of alternative medicine often reject the scientific approach; they argue that their treatments are not amenable to randomized controlled trials, and that they might still work for an individual even when studies show they didn’t work for the people in the studies.
He faults alternative providers for not carrying out even the most basic scientific controls. If they have a treatment that works, they should want to inform the world. It would be simple to publish honest, even independently audited lists of all treated patients with data on all the successes and failures. The argument that there isn’t money to test alternative medicine is a red herring; even small businesses monitor their performance indicators."
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This discussion has been closed.
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