Need to get back on vegan + low calorie again. Advice welcome! Help! Disaster!
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Doug, I agree with Aggelik...back to basics. Your doctors initial advice of 1800 and exercise. What does your exercise look like these days? I will offer my two cents as well regarding food based on your exercise. One thing about maintainers is that they have a flexible plan that works for them and over a certain time range they stick to it. It might just take some time for you to piece together which meals work for you. Also, identify any triggers that cause you to not care about your plan anymore. No need to go back.0
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Oh boy, Doug, I know about being depressed, it's horrible! Feels like there's no hope. That's where I've been for the longest time in regards to gaining control of my eating again. I'm looking back at a time when I felt good about sticking to my diet plan, just like you mentioned. Let's drop the beating ourselves up and look towards a positive, constructive plan for the New Year. I think I'll check out the maintenance boards, too. I'm with ya, buddy.0
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I've gotten so busy that I order my food online Hello Fresh. Lol! I work so much plus going to the gym that I do not have time to properly plan my meals, I barely have time to plan my snacks or shakes. I follow a Vegan or even Plant Based meal plan, Forks Over Knives is my favorite food app.0
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It sounds to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but that you are trying to make a grain the largest portion of food in your meal hence your worries about rice being so high calorie for a 1 cup serving that you don't feel is large enough for satiation.
I like all of the options that people have given you for other grains, there are many more out there and all of them can be prepared deliciously.
But have you considered not making the grain the staple of the meals? For example, if you want to eat rice, cool, have your 1 cup serving. Then, mix that with a healthy fat to increase the satiety. At that point, you can bulk up the rest of your meal with veg (generally low calorie but high volume) to round out the quantity of food that you are eating and provide enough mass/volume to get and feel full.
Additionally, what are your vegan protein sources? I see that you mentioned many soy products but that you have digestive issues with that. Personally, I find that if I take pre and probiotics regularly (you can get them from fermented foods very easily) and a digestive enzyme blend (something like this http://www.amazon.com/Enzymedica-Optimal-Digestive-Support-Capsules/dp/B00HLXPYAA/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1450970740&sr=8-20&keywords=digestive+enzyme although that one is pretty expensive. I also only take one per day as opposed to the recommended two per meal) and it helps immensely with the digestibility issue. YMMV.
I ask about protein sources because there are other, non-soy based protein sources that might be viable options. It would help to know your preferred go to sources though before making suggestions.
I've been vegan for a long time and a bodybuilder for going on two years now. My diet has been very varied and I've tried lots of different things. I'm happy to talk with you at length about vegan food options and choices... just send me a message or an friend request if you would like to talk more.
I'll try to monitor this board but since I'm at work, direct messaging tends to get through to me more quickly.
*edited for grammar0 -
20yearsyounger wrote: »Doug, I agree with Aggelik...back to basics. Your doctors initial advice of 1800 and exercise. What does your exercise look like these days? I will offer my two cents as well regarding food based on your exercise. One thing about maintainers is that they have a flexible plan that works for them and over a certain time range they stick to it. It might just take some time for you to piece together which meals work for you. Also, identify any triggers that cause you to not care about your plan anymore. No need to go back.
Exercise is mostly brisk walks along the river. It had been cycling but (1) it's gotten too cold and (2) my doctor said brisk walking or running is better.
But I've not been very good with exercise lately. Just sporadic walks.
However, I can add and realize that the overwhelming factor in losing weight is what you eat, unless you exercise for literally hours a day.
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BecomingBane wrote: »It sounds to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but that you are trying to make a grain the largest portion of food in your meal hence your worries about rice being so high calorie for a 1 cup serving that you don't feel is large enough for satiation.
I like all of the options that people have given you for other grains, there are many more out there and all of them can be prepared deliciously.
But have you considered not making the grain the staple of the meals? For example, if you want to eat rice, cool, have your 1 cup serving. Then, mix that with a healthy fat to increase the satiety. At that point, you can bulk up the rest of your meal with veg (generally low calorie but high volume) to round out the quantity of food that you are eating and provide enough mass/volume to get and feel full.
Additionally, what are your vegan protein sources? I see that you mentioned many soy products but that you have digestive issues with that. Personally, I find that if I take pre and probiotics regularly (you can get them from fermented foods very easily) and a digestive enzyme blend (something like this http://www.amazon.com/Enzymedica-Optimal-Digestive-Support-Capsules/dp/B00HLXPYAA/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1450970740&sr=8-20&keywords=digestive+enzyme although that one is pretty expensive. I also only take one per day as opposed to the recommended two per meal) and it helps immensely with the digestibility issue. YMMV.
I ask about protein sources because there are other, non-soy based protein sources that might be viable options. It would help to know your preferred go to sources though before making suggestions.
I've been vegan for a long time and a bodybuilder for going on two years now. My diet has been very varied and I've tried lots of different things. I'm happy to talk with you at length about vegan food options and choices... just send me a message or an friend request if you would like to talk more.
I'll try to monitor this board but since I'm at work, direct messaging tends to get through to me more quickly.
*edited for grammar
Well, yes. I live in Japan, and rice is the main course and the other stuff are just side dishes and most people are rail thin! I'm jealous.
Rice as a small side dish is a non-starter for me. I'd rather just leave it out entirely. It wouldn't be satisfying. And it would just add empty calories and trigger hunger.
I might get some small microwave packages of barley-rice (a mix) that is 160 gm and just 216 calories/pack. That might help with portion control, plus under a bed of cooked veggies seems pretty satisfying.
Vegan protein sources abound. Legumes are high in protein. And many vegetables are as well. People don't need tons of protein.
I take probiotics and they are wonderful.
I will take you up on your friend request offer. Thanks!
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douglerner wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »Doug, I agree with Aggelik...back to basics. Your doctors initial advice of 1800 and exercise. What does your exercise look like these days? I will offer my two cents as well regarding food based on your exercise. One thing about maintainers is that they have a flexible plan that works for them and over a certain time range they stick to it. It might just take some time for you to piece together which meals work for you. Also, identify any triggers that cause you to not care about your plan anymore. No need to go back.
Exercise is mostly brisk walks along the river. It had been cycling but (1) it's gotten too cold and (2) my doctor said brisk walking or running is better.
But I've not been very good with exercise lately. Just sporadic walks.
However, I can add and realize that the overwhelming factor in losing weight is what you eat, unless you exercise for literally hours a day.
You dont need to add, brisk walking is good. Its more for feeling better and management of your other health risk factors than for weight loss but it will give you some extra calories as well. I think you have what it takes to do this and make it stick. If it helps any, it took me my second time to truly get it.0 -
20yearsyounger wrote: »
You dont need to add, brisk walking is good. Its more for feeling better and management of your other health risk factors than for weight loss but it will give you some extra calories as well. I think you have what it takes to do this and make it stick. If it helps any, it took me my second time to truly get it.
Yes, I think your point is well made. And you build up extra strength. And 200-300 extra calories a day is a nice cushion.
Anyway, I'm relieved to report I had an excellent day yesterday - even though it was Christmas! I only ate 1467 calories and had one of those "whooshes" of weight loss that is always encouraging to start a new day with. So I'm psyched for today.
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I'm liking your report from yesterday, Doug! Great feeling when we get a good day under our belts. I didn't pay much attention yesterday, gave myself the day off. Today, however, strict! Feels good
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Well, after two very good days I had two very bad days.
The two days I started losing weight too.
The problem which reared its ugly head again was extreme dietary discomfort. Bloating basically. I thought it was limited to just tofu and edamame, but it seems to be happening with the vegan diet in general. All my old memories of 700 days of discomfort came back to me.
I really would like this to work. But honestly, I can't live with day in, day out non-stop bloating from my diet.
The only things which seem "safe" are rice, some green vegetables like green beans and cucumbers and... well... that's about all I can think of really. Maybe mushrooms too.
Bananas and pumpkin seem particularly bad. All fruits seem bad.
I don't know what to do.
doug0 -
Take it one step at a time Doug. Find the foods that don't cause you discomfort and keep building around them. You may have to expand your food universe. What exactly did you eat on those two bad days? Any reason why you couldn't fit them within your calorie goal? Did you log those two bad days?douglerner wrote: »Well, after two very good days I had two very bad days.
The two days I started losing weight too.
The problem which reared its ugly head again was extreme dietary discomfort. Bloating basically. I thought it was limited to just tofu and edamame, but it seems to be happening with the vegan diet in general. All my old memories of 700 days of discomfort came back to me.
I really would like this to work. But honestly, I can't live with day in, day out non-stop bloating from my diet.
The only things which seem "safe" are rice, some green vegetables like green beans and cucumbers and... well... that's about all I can think of really. Maybe mushrooms too.
Bananas and pumpkin seem particularly bad. All fruits seem bad.
I don't know what to do.
doug
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20yearsyounger wrote: »Take it one step at a time Doug. Find the foods that don't cause you discomfort and keep building around them. You may have to expand your food universe. What exactly did you eat on those two bad days? Any reason why you couldn't fit them within your calorie goal? Did you log those two bad days?
Rice has almost seemed the safest digestively. Yet rice has always seemed the worst thing for weight loss because it is so high in "empty calories." So on the one hand it seems safest to eat for feeling ok, but the worst to eat for weight loss.
I log every day.
The things I ate on my "good days" were:
- bananas
- pumpkin slices (nuked on a plate to cook them)
- grilled sweet potatoes with a bit of soy milk on them for moisture
- tomato, cucumber, mushroom and legume salad (50 g of either garbanzo beans or red kidney beans)
- green beans (frozen package, boiled)
- homemade tomato sauce made from a can of crushed tomatoes boiled down, with some pepper and garlic
- pears
- apples
- plain popcorn kernels
Really, that's it.
doug
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douglerner wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »Take it one step at a time Doug. Find the foods that don't cause you discomfort and keep building around them. You may have to expand your food universe. What exactly did you eat on those two bad days? Any reason why you couldn't fit them within your calorie goal? Did you log those two bad days?
Rice has almost seemed the safest digestively. Yet rice has always seemed the worst thing for weight loss because it is so high in "empty calories." So on the one hand it seems safest to eat for feeling ok, but the worst to eat for weight loss.
I log every day.
The things I ate on my "good days" were:
- bananas
- pumpkin slices (nuked on a plate to cook them)
- grilled sweet potatoes with a bit of soy milk on them for moisture
- tomato, cucumber, mushroom and legume salad (50 g of either garbanzo beans or red kidney beans)
- green beans (frozen package, boiled)
- homemade tomato sauce made from a can of crushed tomatoes boiled down, with some pepper and garlic
- pears
- apples
Really, that's it.
doug
What did you eat on the bad days? I am asking because you seem to gravitate to those foods and I am trying to see if there is anything in there that would give you a good balance so that you can stay on track.0 -
For me, the effects of certain foods isn't instant. It often takes several days. So it's possible that when you're not feeling well it's because of what you ate 2 days ago. If you change your diet every 2 days, and assume that what you just ate is the culprit, you might be making a mistake.
It's not surprising if beans make you bloated. From what I've read, soaking beans overnight and rinsing them before cooking can make a difference, even with canned beans.
I know you don't want to rely on rice, but I'd start with it for a week. It's usually easy to digest. It's one of the foods recommended for kids with upset stomachs in the BRAT diet (Bananas, Rice, Applesauce and Toast/Tea). You might want to start with BRAT and give your system a chance to settle down.
SLOWLY add food back into your diet, one or two at a time. Eat for a week, and then add another. That way you can pinpoint what bothers your digestion.
Rice and beans together are a good nutrition combo, and may be easier on you than just beans.
Also, be sure you're washing all produce very well.0 -
Why not keep your diet mostly vegan but introduce fish for protein? Fish is considered heart-healthy and is pretty filling. I second pearled barley as a rice substitute for the fiber. I would also experiment with other grains like buckwheat. It's a "love it or hate it" type of grain, but it tends to fluff up nicely so it's only about 150 calories per cup compared to 250 for rice. It's also rich in magnesium which helps with blood sugar control.0
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Dr's don't know that much about nutrition - i definitely wouldn't be listening to one for advice on diet. It doesn't seem like a vegan approach works for you, so why do it? There are plenty of "healthy" ways to eat, you need to find one that works for your physical and mental health and also fits in to your lifestyle and likes/dislikes. There are plenty of non-vegans who are fit, healthy and have good cholesterol levels.0
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Hi people. As usual, thanks for the support. It's nice to come back and read messages rather than just sitting here by myself with my java sparrows (cute as they are) trying to figure it all out.
In response to new replies:
20years asked what I eat on the bad days when I don't get digestively upset. Yakitori, chicken, I had ice cream today (sorry!), a bento with rice, fish and other things in it. Some odd cookies which weren't very good but because I felt like blowing my diet away I ate them. Lots of calories. But generally lower fiber I guess is the key here. I didn't even LIKE the ice cream I ate. I just felt like stuffing myself out of stress and frustration I suppose.
64crayons: I might try rice for a week. Start with something safe and work up to more.
amusedmonk: I also thought about "mostly vegan but some fish for protein." On a bad day I might have a sashimi donburi. I don't know how many calories it is, but it is mostly rice with some sashimi on top, and wasabi. It's extremely low fat. I suppose one of those a day as a main meal can't hurt. It probably is a lot of calories though - because of the rice more than the fish. The takeout place doesn't list the calories though. But it's not a bad idea.
livinglean: Why vegan indeed. It's the last diet that I lost a lot of weight on I guess is the reason. And I was having too much trouble limiting calories with an "eat any kind of food you want as long as you keep within your calorie limit approach" and also my LDL cholesterol last time dropped to an amazingly low amount on the vegan diet. So I was thinking the extra limitations (no animal products, no oil, no nuts) would help me control calories better I guess.
doug
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Those are all valid reasons for someone to try/do this if you are inclined to.
My advice is to work toward something sustainable. I find that when I feel like I'm restricting anything to much it gets difficult and less likely that I'll succeed.
Eat what you want, vegan or not, as long as it works for you, you can hit macros, and it's sustainable for the long run.
For some, veganism is not the answer... especially if it's not rooted in a moral stance. For me, it entirely was, once I learned how to eat for the nutrients I needed, and in such a way that would fit my macros.
Your own mileage may vary, but the key is sustainability.0 -
douglerner wrote: »Hi people. As usual, thanks for the support. It's nice to come back and read messages rather than just sitting here by myself with my java sparrows (cute as they are) trying to figure it all out.
In response to new replies:
20years asked what I eat on the bad days when I don't get digestively upset. Yakitori, chicken, I had ice cream today (sorry!), a bento with rice, fish and other things in it. Some odd cookies which weren't very good but because I felt like blowing my diet away I ate them. Lots of calories. But generally lower fiber I guess is the key here. I didn't even LIKE the ice cream I ate. I just felt like stuffing myself out of stress and frustration I suppose.
64crayons: I might try rice for a week. Start with something safe and work up to more.
amusedmonk: I also thought about "mostly vegan but some fish for protein." On a bad day I might have a sashimi donburi. I don't know how many calories it is, but it is mostly rice with some sashimi on top, and wasabi. It's extremely low fat. I suppose one of those a day as a main meal can't hurt. It probably is a lot of calories though - because of the rice more than the fish. The takeout place doesn't list the calories though. But it's not a bad idea.
livinglean: Why vegan indeed. It's the last diet that I lost a lot of weight on I guess is the reason. And I was having too much trouble limiting calories with an "eat any kind of food you want as long as you keep within your calorie limit approach" and also my LDL cholesterol last time dropped to an amazingly low amount on the vegan diet. So I was thinking the extra limitations (no animal products, no oil, no nuts) would help me control calories better I guess.
doug
Doug, the thing that I am seeing is the stress eating and not necessarily your diet. For instance, rice may have some empty calories but the fish has filling fats and hdl to help fight your ldl levels. I typically use a well known restaurant in the US like Benihana's for my sushis/sashimi but I dont think it would be as many calories as you think it would be. Eat your chicken, eat your fish, eat your rice (in moderation), build towards incorporating the vegan items you like. On a good day, have yourself that scoop of ice cream. Don't eat ice cream when you are frustrated, stressed, or depressed. It doesnt make you feel any better.0 -
Doug, you mentioned the memory of "700 days of discomfort" from your last go....I can see that you're dreading the next episode. Dread and fear will shoot us down every time, though, so we have to change our thinking.
I agree with Bane, sustainability is absolutely key. I allow a few things that I really enjoy, in carefully measured portions. Otherwise, I tend to binge. Restriction = Deprivation = Binges.
I'm concerned that you're not getting enough healthy fats, especially from nuts.
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Yes, sustainability is important.
I cannot believe I not only didn't gain weight yesterday from my binge, but I am actually 0.8 kg lighter than I was last week at this time. Well, I know you can't account for daily scale fluctuations, but still I'm relieved and feel like "I've been given another chance."
So far I have not yet eaten anything today and it's past 11:00 am. I guess I'm just not sure what to eat. I had considered fasting today, since I felt uncomfortably stuffed when I went to bed. But now I'm feeling some genuine hunger, so should eat something healthy to satisfy that.
In reply:
I think I'm getting healthy fats from the omega-3 supplement sI take.
Also, there are natural fats in just about everything, including most vegetables.
So I'm not concerned about whether I'm getting enough fats or protein.
However I do recognize that protein tends to be more satisfying than carbs, which is why I'm thinking two animal products might be a good thing: (1) 7/11 "salad chicken" which is boneless, skinless chicken and only 125 calories for a large piece, and only 0.3 g of fat and (2) sashimi.
Still, I've tried that recently and it hasn't worked well. Digestively it was fine. But calories start adding in from other things. In other words, a strict "low carb" diet has never worked for me.
My mind is going in circles this morning. Maybe I should try microwave containers of brown rice (just 216 calories for 160 g) and see how it goes today and cave in to some sashimi if necessary.
I'm pretty sure the sashimi donburi has a large number of calories though. Not so much from the fish, but from the rice. I should ask the store how many g of rice they use.
doug0 -
I was somehow super good today, eating just 1227 calories and also getting in a nice, brisk walk. I don't know why it was so easy today and so difficult on other days.
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less stress, less frustration?0
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Add me to the barley brigade. I also use quinoa and cous cous. My favorite grain is actually bulgar which is terrific and hearty and is great both hot and cold. If you make a big vat of it, you can mix it with raw veggies like tomatoes and cucumber and its a super easy lunch or snack. I am almost entirely vegan, having started as a vegetarian ten years ago. Gradually giving stuff up over the years.
Don't give up. Keep posting. Keep at it! Good health is worth it!!0 -
Interesting how we can have such good days, then not-so-good other days. You're off to a great start, Doug! I'm still looking for my Start button I had a good day, but evening time was terrible. We have to keep going, hang on to the successes, and let the mistakes roll off our backs. Live and learn, but keep going! 0
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20yearsyounger wrote: »less stress, less frustration?
Really busy! And playing with new iPad. Are distractions and work the key?
I was disappointed to see no weight drop this morning though. Yes, I know. Daily fluctuations are meaningless. And I should only look at the scale weekly for averages. But I can't help myself, and I'm surprised how discouraging a lack of weight loss can be on will power for the new day.
But I'm just starting the day now and will be good.
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rebeccaj822 wrote: »Add me to the barley brigade. I also use quinoa and cous cous. My favorite grain is actually bulgar which is terrific and hearty and is great both hot and cold. If you make a big vat of it, you can mix it with raw veggies like tomatoes and cucumber and its a super easy lunch or snack. I am almost entirely vegan, having started as a vegetarian ten years ago. Gradually giving stuff up over the years.
Don't give up. Keep posting. Keep at it! Good health is worth it!!
I like the barley + rice mix better than the brown rice I think. It is more flavorful.
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Interesting how we can have such good days, then not-so-good other days. You're off to a great start, Doug! I'm still looking for my Start button I had a good day, but evening time was terrible. We have to keep going, hang on to the successes, and let the mistakes roll off our backs. Live and learn, but keep going!
Evenings! Don't tell me about evenings!
What happens to me all the time is that I can be good all day, but then 4 or 5 pm rolls by and I see an "empty evening" ahead of me and decide to fill it with eating.
And the food is never really more than a fleeting satisfaction - and even often disappointing.
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douglerner wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »less stress, less frustration?
Really busy! And playing with new iPad. Are distractions and work the key?
I was disappointed to see no weight drop this morning though. Yes, I know. Daily fluctuations are meaningless. And I should only look at the scale weekly for averages. But I can't help myself, and I'm surprised how discouraging a lack of weight loss can be on will power for the new day.
But I'm just starting the day now and will be good. You may be surprised by how many people eat more just because they are bored.
When I was losing weight, I looked at the scale every day. Couldnt help it. However, I was only allowed to be disappointed once a week.0 -
Well, today will be my disappointment day then.
But tomorrow is the start of a new year.0
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