There are 'BAD' foods
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Packerjohn wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »So come on, admit it folks, there are 'bad' foods.
I have no problem admitting it. I call foods good and bad all the time. Bad, crap, junk. I've never had anyone IRL ask we what I meant by those terms. They know. We all know.
Only on MFP have I encountered the militant phenomenon of "no food is bad". I think it's whacky thinking. Not determining that some foods are bad is how I got into this predicament to begin with. And if I have a prayer of maintaining my loss, I have to continue thinking that some foods are bad for me.
Are there obese people that gained their weight via vegetables? I've never met one.
I don't typically quiz the obese people I meet on how they gained their weight. How would I know?
That said, if someone eats vegetables as part of a diet that exceeds their energy consumption they will gain weight. If I burn 2,000 calories a day and eat 2,200, it isn't like my body is turning specific foods to fat. I gain weight because my total energy consumption is less than what I'm eating. It isn't like the vegetables are "free" foods. It's all contributing.
Speak to a doctor or nutritionist about the food log of their obese patients. I doubt they would respond any of the logs they reviewed would show the patient got to that state eating too many fruits ir vegetables.
Too many Cokes cakes, chips, Cookies coupled with too little activity will be the cause.
I believe the cause would be calories consumed in excess of what the body needs. While it's true that soda, cakes, chips, and cookies are calorie-dense foods that make it easy to consume a lot of calories, eating anything in excess of what the body needs will cause weight gain. Even fruits and vegetables.0 -
CeciliaBobilia wrote: »Wow. I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are no bad foods. Seriously? Maybe we have different ideas of what "bad" means, but I thought we could all agree that artificial sweetners and processed meats that cause cancer are "bad".
What artificial sweetener causes cancer?
As to processed meats, the over consumption increases the risk of cancer but the data also show no significant increase at low consumption. So...0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheBeachgod wrote: »I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are bad foods.
LOL And I feel the exact opposite.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are not bad foods.
I stated my reasoning back in this thread and calling me naive because of it is insulting. You may not care about my mental health, but I have to. And falling into the good food/bad food trap affects it immensely.0 -
.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheBeachgod wrote: »I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are bad foods.
LOL And I feel the exact opposite.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are not bad foods.
Which is why I started this thread Need2Exercise.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »So come on, admit it folks, there are 'bad' foods.
I have no problem admitting it. I call foods good and bad all the time. Bad, crap, junk. I've never had anyone IRL ask we what I meant by those terms. They know. We all know.
Only on MFP have I encountered the militant phenomenon of "no food is bad". I think it's whacky thinking. Not determining that some foods are bad is how I got into this predicament to begin with. And if I have a prayer of maintaining my loss, I have to continue thinking that some foods are bad for me.
Are there obese people that gained their weight via vegetables? I've never met one.
It would be pretty difficult to gain weight eating only vegetables, I think. I've never met anyone that did that. But it is not hard to gain weight eating a lot of vegetables or a lot of foods normally deemed healthy.
I don't eat a lot of bad foods (my definition - chips, candy, ice cream, pastries, premade meals/foods, processed meats, most fast food).
I gained weight eating mostly whole natural foods, much of it organic. My problem is fat, specifically the ultra-healthy extra virgin olive oil. Olive oil is a 'good food' IMO, but I can easily overeat it.
and yet. A study found 29% of vegans in a sample pop. are overweight or obese...
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/6/1267/T1.expansion.html
But vegans don't eat ONLY vegetables. As I've often seen pointed out on MFP, Oreos are vegan.
Most assuredly. I've also yet to meet someone that eats ONLY vegetables, is highly active and is healthy.0 -
Trans-fat. That ain't good, must be bad.
That's all I'll give you.
HFCS... meh. Moderation.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »I'm always interested in these types of threads which comments are acknowledged and which aren't. The OP seems to want nothing to do with my contributions in favor of arguing with others and we've covered the cancer meats pretty heavily already. Going around in circles.
I agree. There have been times where I wonder if my posts have suddenly gone invisible when I can put a lot of time and thought into preparing a logical response, and I get no comments at all. I can see you @diannethegeek, just in case you were wondering.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheBeachgod wrote: »I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are bad foods.
LOL And I feel the exact opposite.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are not bad foods.
So which foods are bad? Name them and there's a thousand people who don't feel that way and another thousand who will tell you some of the foods you think are "good" are bad.
The fact we can argue about this for so many pages, with a good dose of woo in here too to argue for "bad" foods, shows there is no such thing. It's just as arbitrary as clean and all that other stuff where ten people will have ten different ideas of what it means.0 -
There are no BAD foods - just bad behaviors towards certain foods.0
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diannethegeek wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheBeachgod wrote: »I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are bad foods.
LOL And I feel the exact opposite.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are not bad foods.
I stated my reasoning back in this thread and calling me naive because of it is insulting. You may not care about my mental health, but I have to. And falling into the good food/bad food trap affects it immensely.
For me putting a label on the food has no direct impact upon me. I use the word "bad" with food to denote which foods that I find highly unpalatable...such as...cottage cheese, boiled okra, liver, seaweed...etc...etc.
I think that most people IRL associate the words good/bad/junk/healthy/unhealthy with foods based on their own preferences. Unless someone is or has experienced an eating disorder they are just words that divide food in to subgroups. They use them as way to categorize the foods in their diet.
As long as people leave my plate of food alone I really see no reason to be upset about the terminology that other people use.0 -
The terms you're using as 'proof' for your claim are marketing terms.
People are told to indulge themselves and that they 'deserve to be pampered', just buy this artisan chocolate, or this decadent ice cream.
Congratulations, you bought the marketing hook line and sinker.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheBeachgod wrote: »I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are bad foods.
LOL And I feel the exact opposite.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are not bad foods.
So which foods are bad? Name them and there's a thousand people who don't feel that way and another thousand who will tell you some of the foods you think are "good" are bad.
The fact we can argue about this for so many pages, with a good dose of woo in here too to argue for "bad" foods, shows there is no such thing. It's just as arbitrary as clean and all that other stuff where ten people will have ten different ideas of what it means.
I posted my definition of bad foods above. I have no doubt that people would/will argue with it. Isn't that why many are here.
But as I also previously stated, I've never had anyone IRL argue with it or even question what it meant. Never.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheBeachgod wrote: »I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are bad foods.
LOL And I feel the exact opposite.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are not bad foods.
I stated my reasoning back in this thread and calling me naive because of it is insulting. You may not care about my mental health, but I have to. And falling into the good food/bad food trap affects it immensely.
For me putting a label on the food has no direct impact upon me. I use the word "bad" with food to denote which foods that I find highly unpalatable...such as...cottage cheese, boiled okra, liver, seaweed...etc...etc.
I think that most people IRL associate the words good/bad/junk/healthy/unhealthy with foods based on their own preferences. Unless someone is or has experienced an eating disorder they are just words that divide food in to subgroups. They use them as way to categorize the foods in their diet.
As long as people leave my plate of food alone I really see no reason to be upset about the terminology that other people use.
I could get behind that, except the post I quoted and others like it are talking specifically about how I choose to use the words.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »So come on, admit it folks, there are 'bad' foods.
I have no problem admitting it. I call foods good and bad all the time. Bad, crap, junk. I've never had anyone IRL ask we what I meant by those terms. They know. We all know.
Only on MFP have I encountered the militant phenomenon of "no food is bad". I think it's whacky thinking. Not determining that some foods are bad is how I got into this predicament to begin with. And if I have a prayer of maintaining my loss, I have to continue thinking that some foods are bad for me.
Are there obese people that gained their weight via vegetables? I've never met one.
It would be pretty difficult to gain weight eating only vegetables, I think. I've never met anyone that did that. But it is not hard to gain weight eating a lot of vegetables or a lot of foods normally deemed healthy.
I don't eat a lot of bad foods (my definition - chips, candy, ice cream, pastries, premade meals/foods, processed meats, most fast food).
I gained weight eating mostly whole natural foods, much of it organic. My problem is fat, specifically the ultra-healthy extra virgin olive oil. Olive oil is a 'good food' IMO, but I can easily overeat it.
and yet. A study found 29% of vegans in a sample pop. are overweight or obese...
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/6/1267/T1.expansion.html
But vegans don't eat ONLY vegetables. As I've often seen pointed out on MFP, Oreos are vegan.
Most assuredly. I've also yet to meet someone that eats ONLY vegetables, is highly active and is healthy.
I've never met anyone who eats ONLY vegetables no matter their activity or health status. At least not for more than a short period of time as some sort of ultra restrictive diet.0 -
The second part that's often missing after "There are no bad foods" is "... but there are bad diets." It's important to understand what's intended here.
A good diet is one that:- Aligns closely with your calorie goals (lose/gain/maintain)
- Is reasonably split among the macronutrients (protein/fat/carbohydrate)
- Includes all necessary vitamins, minerals, and fiber
If you can accomplish all three of those, then it doesn't matter what foods you use, possibly with the exception of foods containing trans fats. Those do seem to be detrimental to our health according to research. Otherwise, any food has a green light. This is, of course, ignoring any cases when a doctor/dietitian has restricted foods for other reasons like sensitivities, allergies, and so on.
Let's say you have all your protein, vitamins, minerals, and fiber for the day, and you just need some fat and carbs to reach your calorie goal. A slice of (trans fat free) cake might be the perfect solution. Too much cake is, however, easy to eat, and lead to a bad diet for the day, but any food could do the same thing. The fact that it's cake doesn't matter, and thus cake isn't a bad food.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheBeachgod wrote: »I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are bad foods.
LOL And I feel the exact opposite.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are not bad foods.
So which foods are bad? Name them and there's a thousand people who don't feel that way and another thousand who will tell you some of the foods you think are "good" are bad.
The fact we can argue about this for so many pages, with a good dose of woo in here too to argue for "bad" foods, shows there is no such thing. It's just as arbitrary as clean and all that other stuff where ten people will have ten different ideas of what it means.
I posted my definition of bad foods above. I have no doubt that people would/will argue with it. Isn't that why many are here.
But as I also previously stated, I've never had anyone IRL argue with it or even question what it meant. Never.
Most people don't feel like discussing those things with people. Or they just assume you have the same idea of it that they have even if that's not actually the case.
I know I would usually just smile and nod if someone talked about this kind of stuff, same with detoxes or whatever. Unless I am very close to them.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »So come on, admit it folks, there are 'bad' foods.
I have no problem admitting it. I call foods good and bad all the time. Bad, crap, junk. I've never had anyone IRL ask we what I meant by those terms. They know. We all know.
Isn't the point of the counter-argument that actually you don't know because there is no consensus on what 'bad' means. You know what you mean by it. Other people hear you say 'bad' and think it's what they mean by it. But in reality, it's unlikely you both are thinking the same thing.
It's like the 'clean eating' label. No two people ever seem to mean it the same way, which makes it a meaningless term unless the personal definition is also provided.0 -
suziecue20 wrote: »I see lots of posts stating that there are no 'bad' foods but if this is the case why do we have expressions like 'naughty but nice' when we have eaten something scrumptious we know we shouldn't have?
I know that with CICO I could spend all or most of my daily calories on foods like full fat cheeses, cakes, pastries, biscuits [cookies], ice cream, deep fried chips [fries], sausages, fatty meat and still lose weight but at what cost to my health?
There are lots of foods that are 'bad' but obviously only when they are eaten in high volume and too frequently.
I eat 'bad' foods occasionally under the premise that 'a little bit of what you fancy does you good' and the fact that they stop me feeling deprived and becoming a self-righteous martyr.
So come on, admit it folks, there are 'bad' foods.
I do agree with you. You're more specific. But you mean the same thing as everyone who says "there are no bad foods" since all they mean is that eating a little to some of it as part of an overall balanced and healthy diet is fine.0 -
suziecue20 wrote: »I see lots of posts stating that there are no 'bad' foods but if this is the case why do we have expressions like 'naughty but nice' when we have eaten something scrumptious we know we shouldn't have?
I know that with CICO I could spend all or most of my daily calories on foods like full fat cheeses, cakes, pastries, biscuits [cookies], ice cream, deep fried chips [fries], sausages, fatty meat and still lose weight but at what cost to my health?
There are lots of foods that are 'bad' but obviously only when they are eaten in high volume and too frequently.
I eat 'bad' foods occasionally under the premise that 'a little bit of what you fancy does you good' and the fact that they stop me feeling deprived and becoming a self-righteous martyr.
So come on, admit it folks, there are 'bad' foods.
"Full fat cheese" is not "bad" by any means. Eaten in moderation, it can fit very easily into a well-balanced, low-calorie diet. And the fat helps you feel full longer, so you eat fewer overall calories.
You seem to have a poor understanding of nutrition if you think cheese falls into the same category as cookies. And, no, they aren't "bad." They just aren't something you should pig out on. Everything in moderation.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »So come on, admit it folks, there are 'bad' foods.
I have no problem admitting it. I call foods good and bad all the time. Bad, crap, junk. I've never had anyone IRL ask we what I meant by those terms. They know. We all know.
Isn't the point of the counter-argument that actually you don't know because there is no consensus on what 'bad' means. You know what you mean by it. Other people hear you say 'bad' and think it's what they mean by it. But in reality, it's unlikely you both are thinking the same thing.
It's like the 'clean eating' label. No two people ever seem to mean it the same way, which makes it a meaningless term unless the personal definition is also provided.
I think it's colloquial.
If meanings were really so different responses would not be so consistent when specific foods are mentioned. "What's bad about my daily ice cream?" "I had chips yesterday and I'm not dead." "I eat fast food once a week and I've lost X lbs."
There will be some arguable points but generally we all know what is meant. Whether we admit it or agree, we know.0
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