MILK...

There are many valid ethical arguments against the consumption of animal milks. "Ew!" is not one of them.

mommyrunning wrote: »

I drink soy milk or almond milk. I stopped using cow's milk because I became concerned with the use of antibiotics and hormones in animals like cows after a couple of courses I took as part of my degree including nutrition and microbiology. I am not a scientist and I haven't done studies but I felt that it wasn't work the risk and switched. As someone else said it depends on your criteria as the macro-nutrients vary in each.

Antibiotics are given to cows because of mastitis, which also happens in humans all the time. It is common in nursing mothers.

However, the milk produced by cows with mastitis is discarded. The FDA even took samples and their conclusion that across thousands of farms, there was very little evidence that said antibiotics have tainted milk.

I'm surprised that someone with a degree in microbiology would believe this

Source: http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/Milk/ucm082165.htm

I am ok with animals receiving antibotics just like humans. And the use of pesticides on veggies. Anything that will prevent them from passing on disease to humans is a benefit in my book, especially based on recent Chipotle ecolli break out (organic veggies).

Ps - I prefer cows milk due to the protein

Dreysander wrote: »

realityfades wrote: »

Dreysander wrote: »

I love milk but I only like it whole and that's not worth the macros to me. I usually use unsweetened almond milk for things that need milk. I make my hot chocolate with it.

Also I'm "meh" about the whole "ewww animal milk" thing. We had a family cow growing up, I love cow's milk and I won't ever stop loving cow's milk.

Personally, the only issue I have with milk is that the animals are forcefully bred and then the young are ripped from their mothers and either become veal or another dairy cow. Which makes me feel guilty because I like cheese and yogurt. I don't eat meat, though.

Other than that, milk is pretty good for you but there are certainly good alternatives now for those who don't want to drink milk or can't.

Lots of domestic animals are "forcefully bred" and the majority of them are selectively bred so that they have little to no maternal instinct. Dairy cows (especially Holsteins - your typical black and white) and egg chickens have very low maternal drive. Many of them would step all over their babies or not allow calves to nurse if you left calves with them. I say this from a place of experience. We had two Jersey cows that were good mothers, but cousins of mine had a larger scale Holstein operation and taking the calves to hand rear was safer for the calves in general.

Beef cattle actually have a stronger maternal drive than dairy cattle.

Do you eat eggs, by the way? Do you eat store eggs? Have you see how battery chickens are treated?

I don't like large scale commercial dairy / egg operations, we buy our milk from a local family who has about 50 head of cattle and we raise our own chickens. You can be a responsible consumer of things like eggs and dairy. You can avoid supporting cruelty.

No, I don't eat eggs. I am allergic. My boyfriend does though and he gets free range, organic ones.

And yes, I am talking about the big farms. Not responsible ones.

"Free range" means that chickens have access to outside. It doesn't specify how much space and for how long. Many "free range" egg operations look like this

http://img.wonderhowto.com/img/36/82/63549418846475/0/organic-cage-free-natural-truth-behind-egg-chicken-labels.w654.jpg

Granted it's better than a battery hen house but it's still too cramped. It's better to not buy store eggs at all if you can help it, get them from the farmers market or from a local farm if you can. I realize that's not always possible, even for somebody like me who has chickens - my hens' production is waaaaay down due to the short days and sometimes I have to buy store eggs - but yeah just sayin'.

Animal based industries are, at their heart, an industry.

psulemon wrote: »

I am ok with animals receiving antibotics just like humans. And the use of pesticides on veggies. Anything that will prevent them from passing on disease to humans is a benefit in my book, especially based on recent Chipotle ecolli break out (organic veggies).

That's not going to stop an outbreak of e.coli. E.coli is found in human and animal feces. If your organic food was grown in cow manure and not properly washed you can get e.coli. If your antibiotic ridden beef was slaughtered in unsanitary conditions you can get e.coli.

I personally prefer not to have meat that's pumped with hormones and antibiotics.

Dreysander wrote: »

Well the fact that you bought up that the eggs he buys are "free range, organic, brown eggs" means you must think that is pertinent information. If you didn't, you wouldn't have included it.

Brown eggs are not better than white eggs btw, they're just a different color.

I only brought it up because we were talking about the conditions of large run farms.

Last_mango_in_paradise wrote: »

No, I don't eat eggs. I am allergic. My boyfriend does though and he gets free range, organic ones.

You do know that the definition of "range free" when it comes to store eggs is the fact that they're allowed a little patch of grass out in the sun to walk around on a few times a day. They are by no means running around a farm yard.

A "free range" chicken doesn't even have to go outside, they just need to have theoretical access. That can be a small door for many chickens and it doesn't mean that a chicken necessarily see grass or the sun.

Last_mango_in_paradise wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

Last_mango_in_paradise wrote: »

No, I don't eat eggs. I am allergic. My boyfriend does though and he gets free range, organic ones.

You do know that the definition of "range free" when it comes to store eggs is the fact that they're allowed a little patch of grass out in the sun to walk around on a few times a day. They are by no means running around a farm yard.

A "free range" chicken doesn't even have to go outside, they just need to have theoretical access. That can be a small door for many chickens and it doesn't mean that a chicken necessarily see grass or the sun.

I guess my point was that "free range" doesn't mean the chicken is running around a barn yard like non-commercial chickens would be.

I totally agree -- I just wanted to clarify that it doesn't mean they're necessarily on grass or even outside a few times a day.

realityfades wrote: »

mommyrunning wrote: »

I drink soy milk or almond milk. I stopped using cow's milk because I became concerned with the use of antibiotics and hormones in animals like cows after a couple of courses I took as part of my degree including nutrition and microbiology. I am not a scientist and I haven't done studies but I felt that it wasn't work the risk and switched. As someone else said it depends on your criteria as the macro-nutrients vary in each.

Antibiotics are given to cows because of mastitis, which also happens in humans all the time. It is common in nursing mothers.

However, the milk produced by cows with mastitis is discarded. The FDA even took samples and their conclusion that across thousands of farms, there was very little evidence that said antibiotics have tainted milk.

I'm surprised that someone with a degree in microbiology would believe this

Source: http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/Milk/ucm082165.htm

First I support the use of antibiotics to treat illness in animals. They are given for a number of illnesses. If it ended there then I might feel differently.

My degree is not in microbiology but it's one of the courses I took as a part of my degree. There was information/research that talked about antibiotic resistance and how bacteria works along with lab work to see for ourselves how they work.

Your statement said "there was very little evidence that said antibiotics have tainted milk". Very little is not the same as none. You quoted the FDA which is generally considered reputable but they don't necessarily deem something to be risk free. They decide whether it's "safe enough" for human consumption (the benefit is greater than the risk)

Antibiotics have been used to promote growth and improve feed efficiency in livestock which in my opinion is unethical but that doesn't stop some from doing it.

In addition to my concern about antibiotic use in animals leading to antibiotic resistance there is also the issue of animals being fed hormones that could possible be passed through.

As I stated in my original comment I decided it just wasn't worth the risk for me. For some it doesn't seem like a big enough risk to not drink milk. I think that is a decision each person needs to make for themselves.

I'm super lactose intolerant so I don't drink cow milk. I usually drink unsweetened soy milk because it's higher in protein than other plant alternatives. I do really love chocolate almond milk as a treat.