Holy Grail of Fitness - Lose Fat and Gain Muscle

AnabolicKyle
AnabolicKyle Posts: 489 Member
edited January 2016 in Health and Weight Loss
4 weeks program
2.4g of protein per kg of bodyweight
A tad over the usually 1g per 1lb given
Vs
1.2g of protein per kg of bodyweight

High protein lost 2.5 more lbs of fat and actually gained 2.5lbs of muscle
Low protein lost some fat and keep initial muscle

All subjects performed resistance exercise training combined with high-intensity interval training for 6 d/wk

http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract

Replies

  • juggernaut1974
    juggernaut1974 Posts: 6,212 Member
    4 weeks program
    2.4g of protein per kg of bodyweight
    A tad over the usually 1g per 1lb given
    Vs
    1.2g of protein per kg of bodyweight

    High protein lost 2 more lbs of fat and actually gained 4 lbs of muscle
    Low protein lost some fat and keep initial muscle

    All subjects performed resistance exercise training combined with high-intensity interval training for 6 d/wk

    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract

    Were total calories held constant? I can't tell from the abstract.
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    This is why we typically recommend .8-1.2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight to preserve muscle mass while in a deficit.

    The RDA is just too low for muscle maintenance in a deficit.
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    4 weeks program
    2.4g of protein per kg of bodyweight
    A tad over the usually 1g per 1lb given
    Vs
    1.2g of protein per kg of bodyweight

    High protein lost 2 more lbs of fat and actually gained 4 lbs of muscle
    Low protein lost some fat and keep initial muscle

    All subjects performed resistance exercise training combined with high-intensity interval training for 6 d/wk

    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract

    Were total calories held constant? I can't tell from the abstract.

    Looks like all were fed the same percentage below maintenance.
    40% though? Am I reading that right?
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    need full study...

    were these people beginners to training?
    how much of an energy deficit were they on?
    etc
  • juggernaut1974
    juggernaut1974 Posts: 6,212 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    4 weeks program
    2.4g of protein per kg of bodyweight
    A tad over the usually 1g per 1lb given
    Vs
    1.2g of protein per kg of bodyweight

    High protein lost 2 more lbs of fat and actually gained 4 lbs of muscle
    Low protein lost some fat and keep initial muscle

    All subjects performed resistance exercise training combined with high-intensity interval training for 6 d/wk

    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract

    Were total calories held constant? I can't tell from the abstract.

    Looks like all were fed the same percentage below maintenance.
    40% though? Am I reading that right?

    Yeah...not sure what they mean by "requirements".

    And I agree with your other post too...most seasoned MFP'ers readily admit that both MFP and the RDA underestimate appropriate protein intake.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    4 weeks program
    2.4g of protein per kg of bodyweight
    A tad over the usually 1g per 1lb given
    Vs
    1.2g of protein per kg of bodyweight

    High protein lost 2 more lbs of fat and actually gained 4 lbs of muscle
    Low protein lost some fat and keep initial muscle

    All subjects performed resistance exercise training combined with high-intensity interval training for 6 d/wk

    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract

    Were total calories held constant? I can't tell from the abstract.

    Looks like all were fed the same percentage below maintenance.
    40% though? Am I reading that right?

    Yeah...not sure what they mean by "requirements".

    And I agree with your other post too...most seasoned MFP'ers readily admit that both MFP and the RDA underestimate appropriate protein intake.

    agree

    I typically try to get 1 gram per pound of body weight ....especially when cutting..not so much when bulking
  • AnabolicKyle
    AnabolicKyle Posts: 489 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    4 weeks program
    2.4g of protein per kg of bodyweight
    A tad over the usually 1g per 1lb given
    Vs
    1.2g of protein per kg of bodyweight

    High protein lost 2 more lbs of fat and actually gained 4 lbs of muscle
    Low protein lost some fat and keep initial muscle

    All subjects performed resistance exercise training combined with high-intensity interval training for 6 d/wk

    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract

    Were total calories held constant? I can't tell from the abstract.

    Looks like all were fed the same percentage below maintenance.
    40% though? Am I reading that right?

    33kcal × total LBM in kg
    100kg man at 20%bf
    80kg×33kcal =2640kcal

  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    4 weeks program
    2.4g of protein per kg of bodyweight
    A tad over the usually 1g per 1lb given
    Vs
    1.2g of protein per kg of bodyweight

    High protein lost 2 more lbs of fat and actually gained 4 lbs of muscle
    Low protein lost some fat and keep initial muscle

    All subjects performed resistance exercise training combined with high-intensity interval training for 6 d/wk

    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract

    Were total calories held constant? I can't tell from the abstract.

    Looks like all were fed the same percentage below maintenance.
    40% though? Am I reading that right?

    33kcal × total LBM in kg
    100kg man at 20%bf
    80kg×33kcal =2640kcal

    Do you have the full study?
  • AnabolicKyle
    AnabolicKyle Posts: 489 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    need full study...

    were these people beginners to training?
    how much of an energy deficit were they on?
    etc

    Supposedly trained according to who I got it from with an average of 5 years experience but that almost has to be impossible
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    need full study...

    were these people beginners to training?
    how much of an energy deficit were they on?
    etc

    Full text (.pdf) is available at the link: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract
  • mrtastybutt
    mrtastybutt Posts: 87 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    4 weeks program
    2.4g of protein per kg of bodyweight
    A tad over the usually 1g per 1lb given
    Vs
    1.2g of protein per kg of bodyweight

    High protein lost 2 more lbs of fat and actually gained 4 lbs of muscle
    Low protein lost some fat and keep initial muscle

    All subjects performed resistance exercise training combined with high-intensity interval training for 6 d/wk

    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract

    Were total calories held constant? I can't tell from the abstract.

    Looks like all were fed the same percentage below maintenance.
    40% though? Am I reading that right?

    33kcal × total LBM in kg
    100kg man at 20%bf
    80kg×33kcal =2640kcal

    Do you have the full study?

    post-58615-Chevy-Chase-no-math-SNL-gif-Im-IvKX.gif
  • AnabolicKyle
    AnabolicKyle Posts: 489 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    4 weeks program
    2.4g of protein per kg of bodyweight
    A tad over the usually 1g per 1lb given
    Vs
    1.2g of protein per kg of bodyweight

    High protein lost 2 more lbs of fat and actually gained 4 lbs of muscle
    Low protein lost some fat and keep initial muscle

    All subjects performed resistance exercise training combined with high-intensity interval training for 6 d/wk

    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract

    Were total calories held constant? I can't tell from the abstract.

    Looks like all were fed the same percentage below maintenance.
    40% though? Am I reading that right?

    33kcal × total LBM in kg
    100kg man at 20%bf
    80kg×33kcal =2640kcal

    Do you have the full study?

    No
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    need full study...

    were these people beginners to training?
    how much of an energy deficit were they on?
    etc

    Full text (.pdf) is available at the link: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract

    yea, I just noticed that...

    thanks...
  • juggernaut1974
    juggernaut1974 Posts: 6,212 Member
    edited January 2016
    I mean it's an interesting study - I'd like to be able to read the whole thing.

    And even though it supports some of my pre-conceived notions, I'm hesitant to embrace it fully - at least without being able to read the whole thing and get my hands around their methods.

    For one - It's a 4 week study...not nearly long enough in my opinion to come to any dramatic conclusions.

    Two - I'd like to know HOW they measured lean mass and fat. I would presume DEXA or hydro or something slightly more accurate, but can't tell from the abstract.

    Three - if the calorie formula above is right, then there's no way to tell if some of the differences weren't based on different levels of deficit/surplus (ie - that formula isn't going to accurately keep all participants at a constant deficit/surplus/maintenance).

    ETA: Skimming through the full study now...some of these concerns are addressed therein.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    from the study:

    All participants were recreationally active (i.e.,
    played noncompetitive sports or engaged in some form of
    physical activity 1–2 times/wk); however, no participants were
    regularly performing resistance exercise nor were they regularly
    performing structured progressive aerobic or anaerobic training

    sounds like newbie gains to me ....
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    and then this:

    Participants reported to the laboratory 6 d/wk for exercise
    training that consisted of the following: 1) a full-body resistance
    exercise circuit, which was completed 2 times/wk with circuits
    (no rest between exercises). Circuits included 10 repetitions/set
    for 3 sets at 80% of 1RM, with the last set of each exercise to
    volitional failure, with 1 min of rest between sets; 2) HIT/SIT,
    which took place 2 times/wk. Sessions consisted of one session
    of SIT (progressing from four to eight 30-s Wingate bouts) with
    a 4-min rest between bouts (protocol described in detail below),
    and a second session of modified HIT consisting of 10 bouts of
    an all-out sprint for 1 min at 90% of peak power (watts at
    VO_ 2max), with 1-min rest intervals pedaling at 50 W; 3) a weekly
    250-kJ time trial on a cycle ergometer during which participants
    were instructed to complete the trial as quickly as possible while
    self-adjusting the ergometer resistance; and 4) a plyometric
    body weight circuit with a 30-s rest between exercises.
    To prevent sedentary activity at nonexercise times, all p
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    so basically they took non active males and then put them on a training program for about six weeks and they gained some mass while in a deficit.

    nothing groundbreaking here
  • AnabolicKyle
    AnabolicKyle Posts: 489 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    so basically they took non active males and then put them on a training program for about six weeks and they gained some mass while in a deficit.

    nothing groundbreaking here

    Pretty much eat protein work your *kitten* off see results
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    so basically they took non active males and then put them on a training program for about six weeks and they gained some mass while in a deficit.

    nothing groundbreaking here

    Pretty much eat protein work your *kitten* off see results

    yea, if you are untrained beginner...

    that is not going to work for an intermediate to advanced lifter....
  • AnabolicKyle
    AnabolicKyle Posts: 489 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    so basically they took non active males and then put them on a training program for about six weeks and they gained some mass while in a deficit.

    nothing groundbreaking here

    Pretty much eat protein work your *kitten* off see results

    yea, if you are untrained beginner...

    that is not going to work for an intermediate to advanced lifter....

    It will work but instead of 4 weeks try 4 months for intermediate and try 4 years for advance
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    so basically they took non active males and then put them on a training program for about six weeks and they gained some mass while in a deficit.

    nothing groundbreaking here

    Pretty much eat protein work your *kitten* off see results

    yea, if you are untrained beginner...

    that is not going to work for an intermediate to advanced lifter....

    It will work but instead of 4 weeks try 4 months for intermediate and try 4 years for advance

    so you are saying eat in a deifict for four years, keep protein high, and follow progressive lifting program to build some muscle and lose some fat..

    why not

    1) run a bulk/cut cycle a few times
    2) just run a recomp

  • AnabolicKyle
    AnabolicKyle Posts: 489 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    so basically they took non active males and then put them on a training program for about six weeks and they gained some mass while in a deficit.

    nothing groundbreaking here

    Pretty much eat protein work your *kitten* off see results

    yea, if you are untrained beginner...

    that is not going to work for an intermediate to advanced lifter....

    It will work but instead of 4 weeks try 4 months for intermediate and try 4 years for advance

    so you are saying eat in a deifict for four years, keep protein high, and follow progressive lifting program to build some muscle and lose some fat..

    why not

    1) run a bulk/cut cycle a few times
    2) just run a recomp

    No not at all

    "Work your *kitten* off and eat protein"
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    so basically they took non active males and then put them on a training program for about six weeks and they gained some mass while in a deficit.

    nothing groundbreaking here

    Pretty much eat protein work your *kitten* off see results

    yea, if you are untrained beginner...

    that is not going to work for an intermediate to advanced lifter....

    It will work but instead of 4 weeks try 4 months for intermediate and try 4 years for advance

    so you are saying eat in a deifict for four years, keep protein high, and follow progressive lifting program to build some muscle and lose some fat..

    why not

    1) run a bulk/cut cycle a few times
    2) just run a recomp

    No not at all

    "Work your *kitten* off and eat protein"

    LOL
  • juggernaut1974
    juggernaut1974 Posts: 6,212 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    so basically they took non active males and then put them on a training program for about six weeks and they gained some mass while in a deficit.

    nothing groundbreaking here

    Pretty much eat protein work your *kitten* off see results

    yea, if you are untrained beginner...

    that is not going to work for an intermediate to advanced lifter....

    It will work but instead of 4 weeks try 4 months for intermediate and try 4 years for advance

    so you are saying eat in a deifict for four years, keep protein high, and follow progressive lifting program to build some muscle and lose some fat..

    why not

    1) run a bulk/cut cycle a few times
    2) just run a recomp

    No not at all

    "Work your *kitten* off and eat protein"

    Yeah...that's clearly different than "eat in a deficit for four years, keep protein high, and follow progressive lifting program"