To my brethren and sistren* converted from deep and woo
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I hold my tongue unless my opinion is asked for. Then I try to phrase it as nicely as possible without putting down the person trying to convince me of whatever magical weight loss cure they are doing that week. When I tell them about CICO they usually get disappointed and say "that won't work for them" because "their body doesn't work that way".
Although it's really hard to hold my tongue when my work is doing company-wide juice cleanses every few months and even the CEO is trying to convince all the employees to join in for $250 for 3 days. Honestly I feel bad for the people who fall for it.0 -
I belong to a teacher forum, and quite a few people there are trying to lose weight. Last week there was a discussion and a person commented that you HAVE to go low carb and cut out sugar to lose weight. I replied that low carb is not necessary UNLESS you have a medical condition like PCOS or thyroid issues then low carb can help. I also stated that CICO is all it takes to lose weight. There was a woman on the board who tore me a new one! She said I being very judgmental and needed to do a bit of research, that not all people can lose weight easily and that low carb was needed and then she said my "theory" of CICO was flawed.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Do I wish they understood the real reason? Sure. Is it really worth the battle if they choose to just stop eating at 9 pm because they think their digestive system clocks out at the end of the day? Nope, especially if it is helping them stick to their plan and improve their health. To me, that's more important than "being right."
I also don't think calling something "woo" is insulting to the person. I actually have a lot of "woo-like" feelings in my approach to eating. I know it doesn't really matter to nutrition or health, but I really love getting produce and meat and eggs from local farms, eating as locally and seasonally as possible, making as much as I reasonably can myself, stuff like that. It helps me eat better and makes me feel good about how I'm cooking and eating which is motivating, even though it's not science based. It makes me feel kind of in touch with nature and the seasons and all that, which is why I call it woo (and don't adhere to it when it would be unhelpful, like on February 2 when nothing is in season and I'm in the mood for non-local fish).
I don't think people using the word "woo" is necessarily meant as an insult all the time, but it has a negative connotation and I think many people would feel insulted (as in, that the user thinks they are gullible or stupid) compared to someone just saying "hey, I don't think that information is correct."
I've seen people referred to as "derpy" and "woo peddlers" just because they have information that is not correct, and that usage seems to indicate that the person is purposefully trying to spread that misinformation. Whereas I think most people who may believe things that are not factually correct are not willfully in denial, but just repeating something they heard from someone or something that they believe to be a credible, trusted source. Using words like "woo" or "derp" in relation to that can put people on the defensive, which then limits the productivity of the conversation. Which is why I personally prefer not to use those words in discussion. YMMV, but I think it's helpful to understand why some people may react strongly to the usage, and how that can influence their perception of the person using the words.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Do I wish they understood the real reason? Sure. Is it really worth the battle if they choose to just stop eating at 9 pm because they think their digestive system clocks out at the end of the day? Nope, especially if it is helping them stick to their plan and improve their health. To me, that's more important than "being right."
I also don't think calling something "woo" is insulting to the person. I actually have a lot of "woo-like" feelings in my approach to eating. I know it doesn't really matter to nutrition or health, but I really love getting produce and meat and eggs from local farms, eating as locally and seasonally as possible, making as much as I reasonably can myself, stuff like that. It helps me eat better and makes me feel good about how I'm cooking and eating which is motivating, even though it's not science based. It makes me feel kind of in touch with nature and the seasons and all that, which is why I call it woo (and don't adhere to it when it would be unhelpful, like on February 2 when nothing is in season and I'm in the mood for non-local fish).
I don't think people using the word "woo" is necessarily meant as an insult all the time, but it has a negative connotation and I think many people would feel insulted (as in, that the user thinks they are gullible or stupid) compared to someone just saying "hey, I don't think that information is correct."
I've seen people referred to as "derpy" and "woo peddlers" just because they have information that is not correct, and that usage seems to indicate that the person is purposefully trying to spread that misinformation. Whereas I think most people who may believe things that are not factually correct are not willfully in denial, but just repeating something they heard from someone or something that they believe to be a credible, trusted source. Using words like "woo" or "derp" in relation to that can put people on the defensive, which then limits the productivity of the conversation. Which is why I personally prefer not to use those words in discussion. YMMV, but I think it's helpful to understand why some people may react strongly to the usage, and how that can influence their perception of the person using the words.
Even if you believe your own woo, you're still purposefully spreading it, if you're spreading it. The results to the people possibly believing it are the same - intent isn't magic. Just because you're a victim of false beliefs doesn't justify you pushing them to others, particularly if those false beliefs have consequences. The world would be a better place if people would thoroughly research their claims from reputable information before they go handing it out to others.0 -
I see woo peddlers used for people like Dr. Oz or Freelee or the Bulletproof Executive guy, and I think it fits. "Woo peddler," of course, is intended as a negative, as well as being an accurate description.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Do I wish they understood the real reason? Sure. Is it really worth the battle if they choose to just stop eating at 9 pm because they think their digestive system clocks out at the end of the day? Nope, especially if it is helping them stick to their plan and improve their health. To me, that's more important than "being right."
I also don't think calling something "woo" is insulting to the person. I actually have a lot of "woo-like" feelings in my approach to eating. I know it doesn't really matter to nutrition or health, but I really love getting produce and meat and eggs from local farms, eating as locally and seasonally as possible, making as much as I reasonably can myself, stuff like that. It helps me eat better and makes me feel good about how I'm cooking and eating which is motivating, even though it's not science based. It makes me feel kind of in touch with nature and the seasons and all that, which is why I call it woo (and don't adhere to it when it would be unhelpful, like on February 2 when nothing is in season and I'm in the mood for non-local fish).
I don't think people using the word "woo" is necessarily meant as an insult all the time, but it has a negative connotation and I think many people would feel insulted (as in, that the user thinks they are gullible or stupid) compared to someone just saying "hey, I don't think that information is correct."
I've seen people referred to as "derpy" and "woo peddlers" just because they have information that is not correct, and that usage seems to indicate that the person is purposefully trying to spread that misinformation. Whereas I think most people who may believe things that are not factually correct are not willfully in denial, but just repeating something they heard from someone or something that they believe to be a credible, trusted source. Using words like "woo" or "derp" in relation to that can put people on the defensive, which then limits the productivity of the conversation. Which is why I personally prefer not to use those words in discussion. YMMV, but I think it's helpful to understand why some people may react strongly to the usage, and how that can influence their perception of the person using the words.
Even if you believe your own woo, you're still purposefully spreading it, if you're spreading it. The results to the people possibly believing it are the same - intent isn't magic. Just because you're a victim of false beliefs doesn't justify you pushing them to others, particularly if those false beliefs have consequences. The world would be a better place if people would thoroughly research their claims from reputable information before they go handing it out to others.
Yes, and just because something worked for doesn't mean you should tell everyone they should be doing it too.0 -
The world would be a better place if people would thoroughly research their claims from reputable information before they go handing it out to others.
Or just think about whether they have a reason to believe something is factual or not and be more careful in how you present it. I'm always amazed at how certain people act about things that they can't possibly have a good basis to believe is true.
But then it's more and more clear that people just believe what they want to believe and think others like them believe and seek out media that merely confirms their own beliefs, in all areas of life. I think this is a really negative trend for our society, so I like the idea that in some areas, at least, standards can be applied.0 -
People can believe all the woo they want, but what frustrates me is when people ask me how I've done what I've done and they reject my honest answers while indirectly or outright calling me a liar.
- "How did you get so thin?" I exercise and eat at a calorie deficit. "Oh don't tell me that, I go to the gym and haven't lost a pound!" Are you eating less calories than you burn? "I don't eat much." Oh, okay then.
- "Oh you're not going to eat any cake." Actually, I love cake. I'll have a piece, thanks! "Are you going to vomit it up later?"
- "You count calories? Oh, my life is far too busy for that. I don't have the time to do something like that." I guess my life isn't busy at all then, huh?
The problem is that many people want the results without accepting that it takes work to get there. No, there has to be some secret that only a few people are privy to and it's being hidden from the rest of the world. Many people don't want to accept that they eat too much or aren't active enough. They aren't willing to exercise during the week or keep tabs on their food intake, but they're willing to invest hundreds in miracle pills, creams, and diet plans that accomplish absolutely nothing. You can't have the "beach body" without putting in the time and effort it takes to achieve that goal.
When I get asked how I lost all the weight so fast and I give them similar answers they just tend to look very disappointed. They seem to be hoping I found some secret I could share or some product that performs miracles. People rarely want to hear that's it's a time consuming and often difficult process.0 -
I belong to a teacher forum, and quite a few people there are trying to lose weight. Last week there was a discussion and a person commented that you HAVE to go low carb and cut out sugar to lose weight. I replied that low carb is not necessary UNLESS you have a medical condition like PCOS or thyroid issues then low carb can help. I also stated that CICO is all it takes to lose weight. There was a woman on the board who tore me a new one! She said I being very judgmental and needed to do a bit of research, that not all people can lose weight easily and that low carb was needed and then she said my "theory" of CICO was flawed.
Can't really reason with a zealot but I certainly would rip them right back even if it's just for the fun of it.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »People can believe all the woo they want, but what frustrates me is when people ask me how I've done what I've done and they reject my honest answers while indirectly or outright calling me a liar.
- "How did you get so thin?" I exercise and eat at a calorie deficit. "Oh don't tell me that, I go to the gym and haven't lost a pound!" Are you eating less calories than you burn? "I don't eat much." Oh, okay then.
- "Oh you're not going to eat any cake." Actually, I love cake. I'll have a piece, thanks! "Are you going to vomit it up later?"
- "You count calories? Oh, my life is far too busy for that. I don't have the time to do something like that." I guess my life isn't busy at all then, huh?
The problem is that many people want the results without accepting that it takes work to get there. No, there has to be some secret that only a few people are privy to and it's being hidden from the rest of the world. Many people don't want to accept that they eat too much or aren't active enough. They aren't willing to exercise during the week or keep tabs on their food intake, but they're willing to invest hundreds in miracle pills, creams, and diet plans that accomplish absolutely nothing. You can't have the "beach body" without putting in the time and effort it takes to achieve that goal.
When I get asked how I lost all the weight so fast and I give them similar answers they just tend to look very disappointed. They seem to be hoping I found some secret I could share or some product that performs miracles. People rarely want to hear that's it's a time consuming and often difficult process.
I know that look of disappointment!
I've even had several try to head me off at the pass..."How did you get fit...and don't tell me diet and exercise!" (guess what I tell them?)0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »People can believe all the woo they want, but what frustrates me is when people ask me how I've done what I've done and they reject my honest answers while indirectly or outright calling me a liar.
- "How did you get so thin?" I exercise and eat at a calorie deficit. "Oh don't tell me that, I go to the gym and haven't lost a pound!" Are you eating less calories than you burn? "I don't eat much." Oh, okay then.
- "Oh you're not going to eat any cake." Actually, I love cake. I'll have a piece, thanks! "Are you going to vomit it up later?"
- "You count calories? Oh, my life is far too busy for that. I don't have the time to do something like that." I guess my life isn't busy at all then, huh?
The problem is that many people want the results without accepting that it takes work to get there. No, there has to be some secret that only a few people are privy to and it's being hidden from the rest of the world. Many people don't want to accept that they eat too much or aren't active enough. They aren't willing to exercise during the week or keep tabs on their food intake, but they're willing to invest hundreds in miracle pills, creams, and diet plans that accomplish absolutely nothing. You can't have the "beach body" without putting in the time and effort it takes to achieve that goal.
When I get asked how I lost all the weight so fast and I give them similar answers they just tend to look very disappointed. They seem to be hoping I found some secret I could share or some product that performs miracles. People rarely want to hear that's it's a time consuming and often difficult process.
Yep. When you explain that you simply ate less and moved more, their eyes glaze over. The answer they're looking for is usually one of these two:
1) A magic pill that will let them effortlessly get to their goal weight in 30 days with no diet changes or exercise, or;
2) They want to hear that you deprived yourself, suffered and worked out until you dropped from exhaustion, so they can say "Oh, I could never do that, it's too hard!" and justify to themselves why they'll just stay fat.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »People can believe all the woo they want, but what frustrates me is when people ask me how I've done what I've done and they reject my honest answers while indirectly or outright calling me a liar.
- "How did you get so thin?" I exercise and eat at a calorie deficit. "Oh don't tell me that, I go to the gym and haven't lost a pound!" Are you eating less calories than you burn? "I don't eat much." Oh, okay then.
- "Oh you're not going to eat any cake." Actually, I love cake. I'll have a piece, thanks! "Are you going to vomit it up later?"
- "You count calories? Oh, my life is far too busy for that. I don't have the time to do something like that." I guess my life isn't busy at all then, huh?
The problem is that many people want the results without accepting that it takes work to get there. No, there has to be some secret that only a few people are privy to and it's being hidden from the rest of the world. Many people don't want to accept that they eat too much or aren't active enough. They aren't willing to exercise during the week or keep tabs on their food intake, but they're willing to invest hundreds in miracle pills, creams, and diet plans that accomplish absolutely nothing. You can't have the "beach body" without putting in the time and effort it takes to achieve that goal.
When I get asked how I lost all the weight so fast and I give them similar answers they just tend to look very disappointed. They seem to be hoping I found some secret I could share or some product that performs miracles. People rarely want to hear that's it's a time consuming and often difficult process.
Yep. When you explain that you simply ate less and moved more, their eyes glaze over. The answer they're looking for is usually one of these two:
1) A magic pill that will let them effortlessly get to their goal weight in 30 days with no diet changes or exercise, or;
2) They want to hear that you deprived yourself, suffered and worked out until you dropped from exhaustion, so they can say "Oh, I could never do that, it's too hard!" and justify to themselves why they'll just stay fat.
True, I'm pretty sure they really want the former but would be at least satisfied with the latter.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »People can believe all the woo they want, but what frustrates me is when people ask me how I've done what I've done and they reject my honest answers while indirectly or outright calling me a liar.
- "How did you get so thin?" I exercise and eat at a calorie deficit. "Oh don't tell me that, I go to the gym and haven't lost a pound!" Are you eating less calories than you burn? "I don't eat much." Oh, okay then.
- "Oh you're not going to eat any cake." Actually, I love cake. I'll have a piece, thanks! "Are you going to vomit it up later?"
- "You count calories? Oh, my life is far too busy for that. I don't have the time to do something like that." I guess my life isn't busy at all then, huh?
The problem is that many people want the results without accepting that it takes work to get there. No, there has to be some secret that only a few people are privy to and it's being hidden from the rest of the world. Many people don't want to accept that they eat too much or aren't active enough. They aren't willing to exercise during the week or keep tabs on their food intake, but they're willing to invest hundreds in miracle pills, creams, and diet plans that accomplish absolutely nothing. You can't have the "beach body" without putting in the time and effort it takes to achieve that goal.
When I get asked how I lost all the weight so fast and I give them similar answers they just tend to look very disappointed. They seem to be hoping I found some secret I could share or some product that performs miracles. People rarely want to hear that's it's a time consuming and often difficult process.
I get this a lot too, and I used to be surprised, but the more time I spend on these forums the more I realize that there is a huge gap between what people think successful weight loss looks like, and what actually needs to happen.
At least the real life conversations don't usually devolve into the person getting totally defensive, white knights don't swoop in to save the day, and there are less mean people discussions that result from the initial conversation where the person didn't like what we had to say...0 -
I stay out of it unless asked specifically what worked for me -- generally people don't ask, and really don't seem to want to know which I think is pretty funny.0
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Also just to add "woo" and "derp" are describing the concept not the person who uses them
Similar to child development one describes the action and not the child ..how can that be offensive?
Woo and derp are adjectives that cannot be ascribed to people. One wouldn't say "you are woo" or "you are so derp" so taking offence at the use of the word as a concept descriptor is in my opinion grammatically and actually inappropriate
Just wanted to point out that you seem to be very seriously discussing proper grammar usage concerning the pseudo-words "woo" and "derp".
As an english teacher, I find that very entertaining!0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »People can believe all the woo they want, but what frustrates me is when people ask me how I've done what I've done and they reject my honest answers while indirectly or outright calling me a liar.
- "How did you get so thin?" I exercise and eat at a calorie deficit. "Oh don't tell me that, I go to the gym and haven't lost a pound!" Are you eating less calories than you burn? "I don't eat much." Oh, okay then.
- "Oh you're not going to eat any cake." Actually, I love cake. I'll have a piece, thanks! "Are you going to vomit it up later?"
- "You count calories? Oh, my life is far too busy for that. I don't have the time to do something like that." I guess my life isn't busy at all then, huh?
The problem is that many people want the results without accepting that it takes work to get there. No, there has to be some secret that only a few people are privy to and it's being hidden from the rest of the world. Many people don't want to accept that they eat too much or aren't active enough. They aren't willing to exercise during the week or keep tabs on their food intake, but they're willing to invest hundreds in miracle pills, creams, and diet plans that accomplish absolutely nothing. You can't have the "beach body" without putting in the time and effort it takes to achieve that goal.
When I get asked how I lost all the weight so fast and I give them similar answers they just tend to look very disappointed. They seem to be hoping I found some secret I could share or some product that performs miracles. People rarely want to hear that's it's a time consuming and often difficult process.
I get this a lot too, and I used to be surprised, but the more time I spend on these forums the more I realize that there is a huge gap between what people think successful weight loss looks like, and what actually needs to happen.
At least the real life conversations don't usually devolve into the person getting totally defensive, white knights don't swoop in to save the day, and there are less mean people discussions that result from the initial conversation where the person didn't like what we had to say...
I can't blame a person for not understanding how weight loss works since there are so many gurus, hucksters, snake oil pedlers, and even people with legitimate titles sowing confusion all over. If a person with the title "doctor" (even if it's not an MD or at least PhD in a related field) tells you there is a miracle fat burner or that being overweight/obese isn't your fault and they have a magic cure you might be persuaded that the information is legitimate even when it's not. When a surgeon with a top pedigree is on TV every day at 4 telling you about the latest "miracle" for weight loss it might start sounding true after a while.
As Dr. Katz says, most people basically know how weight gain/loss works and the only people that are really confused are those who are selling something and those who listen to them. Unfortuantely, far too many people are listening.0 -
tomatosoup3 wrote: »Also just to add "woo" and "derp" are describing the concept not the person who uses them
Similar to child development one describes the action and not the child ..how can that be offensive?
Woo and derp are adjectives that cannot be ascribed to people. One wouldn't say "you are woo" or "you are so derp" so taking offence at the use of the word as a concept descriptor is in my opinion grammatically and actually inappropriate
Just wanted to point out that you seem to be very seriously discussing proper grammar usage concerning the pseudo-words "woo" and "derp".
As an english teacher, I find that very entertaining!
Proper definition of made up words is important.
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I think "you are so derp" fits a few of my acquaintances perfectly......0
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Usually the conversation starts because they know I've lost a significant amount of weight, and they'll ask for my opinion on everything from wraps, waist trainers, detoxing, juicing, fasting, diet pills, teas, etc, etc. I'll give my honest answer and if they don't accept it, I move on.0
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »As Dr. Katz says, most people basically know how weight gain/loss works and the only people that are really confused are those who are selling something and those who listen to them. Unfortuantely, far too many people are listening.
So much this.
I also think most of the confusion is wanting to believe that there's some cause besides eating too much/not being active enough for how much you eat, and a related magical solution.0
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