Where is the boundary between unwanted advice and concern?
LKArgh
Posts: 5,178 Member
I have an acquaintance who is going through a very weird and I think rather dangerous (if he manages to stick with it) eating phase. I know because he is talking to everyone about it (a "I have finally seen the light" type of talk) and he has obviously lost weight (which he cannot really afford to lose, because he is already borderline underweight).
It looks like a midlife crisis to me, and from what I understand he has basically decided he could get a ton of illnesses his parents suffered from. He has been to the dr, is perfectly fine, he is still convinced he will get ill. I get the impression he has panicked after a health emergency of a close relative, googled every scary pseudo-science blog he could find, and came up with a weird seriously restrictive diet. He has lost weight fast and he is very proud. The problem is he was already very thin.
Since he is very proud of his new eating style, and he is not a close friend, should I say something? He is the one bringing up the topic, it is all he talks about. I change the subject, thinking I am not his mother and it is not my job to tell him he needs a therapist and not a diet, but I wonder if I should express some concern the next time?
To give an idea of what I mean by weird restrictions, he is on a no sugar, no fruit, no salt, no dairy, no red meat, no juice, no legumes, no tomatoes or other vegetables that are not green, no fish, nothing "processed" diet. Not low carb, not paleo, not a diabetes diet, just some random restrictions. I get the impression it is basically a bread, potatoes, pasta, chicken, lettuce diet. And since this is a huge change from his previous eating habits, it looks like he has simply been eating far less than what he used to.
It looks like a midlife crisis to me, and from what I understand he has basically decided he could get a ton of illnesses his parents suffered from. He has been to the dr, is perfectly fine, he is still convinced he will get ill. I get the impression he has panicked after a health emergency of a close relative, googled every scary pseudo-science blog he could find, and came up with a weird seriously restrictive diet. He has lost weight fast and he is very proud. The problem is he was already very thin.
Since he is very proud of his new eating style, and he is not a close friend, should I say something? He is the one bringing up the topic, it is all he talks about. I change the subject, thinking I am not his mother and it is not my job to tell him he needs a therapist and not a diet, but I wonder if I should express some concern the next time?
To give an idea of what I mean by weird restrictions, he is on a no sugar, no fruit, no salt, no dairy, no red meat, no juice, no legumes, no tomatoes or other vegetables that are not green, no fish, nothing "processed" diet. Not low carb, not paleo, not a diabetes diet, just some random restrictions. I get the impression it is basically a bread, potatoes, pasta, chicken, lettuce diet. And since this is a huge change from his previous eating habits, it looks like he has simply been eating far less than what he used to.
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Hmm. Could be tricky. But if he brings the topic up again you could try having a conversation about it.0
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If it were me and I was concerned for him, yes I would go lightly and feel him out and decide if he is receptive and if he is I would try to talk to him. If he is open perhaps lead him to talking to you more. You may find him receptive and totally open or perhaps he is in such denial that nothing you say will make a difference. Good luck.0
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If he opens the door, I say waltz in like you own the place. Tell him how it is in reality. Let him know you are concerned for him. You don't have to be an *kitten* about it, but let your words show the weight of your convictions. If he disagrees, well, there's nothing you can do. But I feel like we all have a responsibility to one another not to let other people harm themselves. If that's where you honestly believe this is headed, you should do something about it.
You wouldn't just stand by if you saw this guy climbing over the rail to jump off a bridge would you? Just because this is slower doesn't make it different.0 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »If he opens the door, I say waltz in like you own the place. Tell him how it is in reality. Let him know you are concerned for him. You don't have to be an *kitten* about it, but let your words show the weight of your convictions. If he disagrees, well, there's nothing you can do. But I feel like we all have a responsibility to one another not to let other people harm themselves. If that's where you honestly believe this is headed, you should do something about it.
You wouldn't just stand by if you saw this guy climbing over the rail to jump off a bridge would you? Just because this is slower doesn't make it different.
I obviously have not asked him to step on a scale, but my estimation would be he is somewhere around 60 kilos and about 170 cm (my height estimation is for sure better than my weight estimation). And he has been bragging he is losing at least 1 kilo per week since Christmas, which sounds like a scary rate to me.0 -
Is he testing for food intolerances, by any chance. I had to an elimination diet after allergy testing results were negative (they only skin test the most common until they suspect something specific). You start by eating, like, white rice and boiled chicken and bottled water, and then very slowly add in one unlikely allergen at a time. Because it's so restrictive, people usually pick the things that will make it easier to eat. Bread and potatoes would be fairly common. Carrots are also a pretty common early choice.
It's terribly unhealthy in terms of nutrition and you can end up eating it for months on end. But the end goal is to get healthier, so a necessary evil.0 -
Is he testing for food intolerances, by any chance. I had to an elimination diet after allergy testing results were negative (they only skin test the most common until they suspect something specific). You start by eating, like, white rice and boiled chicken and bottled water, and then very slowly add in one unlikely allergen at a time. Because it's so restrictive, people usually pick the things that will make it easier to eat. Bread and potatoes would be fairly common. Carrots are also a pretty common early choice.
It's terribly unhealthy in terms of nutrition and you can end up eating it for months on end. But the end goal is to get healthier, so a necessary evil.
No. He has done some random reading about sugar being the devil, salt being the devil, fat being the devil, GMOs, pesticides and additives being the devil and so on, and started eliminating things to avoid all these "dangerous" things. I hope he does not move to "white food" being the devil next, because this will only leave organic greens.0 -
Do you know people close to him? I feel he may become quite defensive if challenged and it may be better coming from someone closer?0
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runningalice wrote: »Do you know people close to him? I feel he may become quite defensive if challenged and it may be better coming from someone closer?
I know his wife, but not well enough. Plus I think they are currently separated. He is a work and gym acquaintance.0 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »If he opens the door, I say waltz in like you own the place. Tell him how it is in reality. Let him know you are concerned for him. You don't have to be an *kitten* about it, but let your words show the weight of your convictions. If he disagrees, well, there's nothing you can do. But I feel like we all have a responsibility to one another not to let other people harm themselves. If that's where you honestly believe this is headed, you should do something about it.
You wouldn't just stand by if you saw this guy climbing over the rail to jump off a bridge would you? Just because this is slower doesn't make it different.
I obviously have not asked him to step on a scale, but my estimation would be he is somewhere around 60 kilos and about 170 cm (my height estimation is for sure better than my weight estimation). And he has been bragging he is losing at least 1 kilo per week since Christmas, which sounds like a scary rate to me.
It should sound scary. It is scary.
If you're one for the gentle way, you might consider inviting him to your party. If he's insecure, and he respects you at all, then it's a surefire way to get him feeling less insecure if you behave as though you find him worthy of friendship. And he does sound insecure. Maybe consider inviting him and whatever friend of yours you know him through to come on a jog with you or whatever it is you partake in (weight training session). Or if you've had a hankering to do something new, invite them to that. I met my very best friend in the world through work and we hit it off cause I wanted to go to a self-defense class and she thought that was cool. Maybe boxing is more up your alley?0 -
I'd straight up educate him about why what he's doing is bad. If that falls on deaf ears, my conscience would be clean.0
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Is he testing for food intolerances, by any chance. I had to an elimination diet after allergy testing results were negative (they only skin test the most common until they suspect something specific). You start by eating, like, white rice and boiled chicken and bottled water, and then very slowly add in one unlikely allergen at a time. Because it's so restrictive, people usually pick the things that will make it easier to eat. Bread and potatoes would be fairly common. Carrots are also a pretty common early choice.
It's terribly unhealthy in terms of nutrition and you can end up eating it for months on end. But the end goal is to get healthier, so a necessary evil.
No. He has done some random reading about sugar being the devil, salt being the devil, fat being the devil, GMOs, pesticides and additives being the devil and so on, and started eliminating things to avoid all these "dangerous" things. I hope he does not move to "white food" being the devil next, because this will only leave organic greens.
In that case, I doubt anything you say is going to change his mind. Sounds like he drank the koolaid and he is unlikely to be convinced by the disapproval of an acquaintance. On the plus side, it's likely people who are closer to him are concerned too. If someone he isn't all that close to is thinking of expressing concern, someone he is close to probably already has.
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Maybe gently ask if he feels he needs to lose more weight? "You seem to already be at a healthy weight, Bob. Why lose more?"0
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I'd be pointing out how processed bread is, for starters.
If someone won't let an issue drop, you have every right to comment.0 -
Bread I s full of salt and sugar. So I guess he needs to cut that too.
Why am I not surprised that he is separated from his wife?0 -
Anything that completely restricts fruit and non-green vegetables is pretty dangerous in itself, I think. So yeah, you do have legitimate reasons for concern.0
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The good (sort of) news is that losing at that pace while already a normal weight and restricting this massively will likely lead to fairly obvious nutritional deficit issues sooner than later, and someone already obsessed with health will probably go to the doctor when his hair starts falling out in clumps or someone he hasn't seen in a while expresses horror at the fact that he looks like a skeleton.
The bad news is, someone who did not reason themselves in to a belief generally can't be reasoned out of it, and even a doctor's intervention may not be enough to convince him that this crazy system is a bad idea.
You can feel free to mention what you understand about the importance of a balanced diet if he keeps bringing up his way of eating, and if he's looking particularly peaky (and it sounds like he must!), you might find a way to diplomatically mention that he looks unwell. But realize that his actions are most likely the result of emotional trauma and fears, not rational health choices, and that an acquaintance to someone who has developed an unhealthy relationship with food based on an irrational fear of mortality probably isn't going to be able to turn the tide with a comment, no matter how well-intentioned.0 -
I get the impression he has panicked after a health emergency of a close relative, googled every scary pseudo-science blog he could find, and came up with a weird seriously restrictive diet.
The problem is he was already very thin.
he is not a close friend, should I say something?
a) Cool. Introduce the notion of regularly eating colloidal silver to kill bacteria. It will kill bacteria. He won't get ill. He will turn blue and look like a smurf. You get to laugh.
b) When you say thin, do you mean thin, or actually healthy as many people think fat is normal? I see you have a few thousand posts so I'm guessing your mind has been adjusted to what is really overweight and what is healthy, and therefore what is unhealthily thin.
c) His close friends have probably already said something many times.0 -
If he asked me directly what I think, I'd voice it. If not, then it's on them since it's not a family member or close friend.
I've worked at many gyms where people over exercise and under eat and you can see it. Unfortunately until they pass out or have a medical emergency, as a staff member we couldn't even make a comment to them about it.
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I have a certain sense of fatalism about this sort of thing. From what you describe, he is making the choices he wants to make and has "educated" himself, so I doubt anything you say would have much of an effect. Two, there is likely at least a 50/50 chance that anything you tell him would be wrong, since most people don't know nearly as much about health and diet as they think they do. Three, while his food choices are eccentric, they are not necessarily harmful--humans can tolerate a lot of different eating styles. While you think he is "too thin", per the numbers you report, his BMI is in a healthy range (and since you admit you are just estimating the numbers, you have no reliable data anyhow).
If he is talking about this to you, then you certainly have as much right to express your opinion as he does, but I don't think this is something that should be your active concern. And, chances are, if he is as obsessive about this right now as it sounds, any attempt to disagree with his choices will be met with an avalanche of "facts" supporting his choices that you will likely not be able to refute on the spot. Who wants to put up with that? Finally, most of these "phases" tend to be short term, so I suspect this won't be a permanent issue.0 -
I have a certain sense of fatalism about this sort of thing. From what you describe, he is making the choices he wants to make and has "educated" himself, so I doubt anything you say would have much of an effect. Two, there is likely at least a 50/50 chance that anything you tell him would be wrong, since most people don't know nearly as much about health and diet as they think they do. Three, while his food choices are eccentric, they are not necessarily harmful--humans can tolerate a lot of different eating styles. While you think he is "too thin", per the numbers you report, his BMI is in a healthy range (and since you admit you are just estimating the numbers, you have no reliable data anyhow).
If he is talking about this to you, then you certainly have as much right to express your opinion as he does, but I don't think this is something that should be your active concern. And, chances are, if he is as obsessive about this right now as it sounds, any attempt to disagree with his choices will be met with an avalanche of "facts" supporting his choices that you will likely not be able to refute on the spot. Who wants to put up with that? Finally, most of these "phases" tend to be short term, so I suspect this won't be a permanent issue.
Yeah, basically what I was thinking. Normally, I assume that when someone opens a discussion like this, he/she expects to get back feedback. And arguing that feels like hitting against a wall on MFP is one thing (you just walk away from your computer and roll your eyes then forget about it), but arguing IRL with someone "on a mission", this usually sounds unnecessarily unpleasant, especially when there will be future regular social interactions.
I agree, that if he just keeps this up for a few weeks, no harm done. If it is going to be a long term plan, then he sounds in real trouble.
Guess I will wait and see and if I e.g. see in a month he is still on this phase, I might express some concerns. Honestly, if I were to suggest something to him it would be a therapist to help him deal with all this health related anxiety, but I think many people just hear "Are you calling me CRAZY ?" at the mention of the word "therapy".0 -
If he brought it up I would probably mention what I believed re: healthy eating without in any way judging or analyzing his diet or suggesting he needs therapy. I might mention some good healthy eating web pages I like to reference without suggesting that he needs to follow suit. It's really not your place to save him.0
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Mind your own business. If he is that fanatical about it, I doubt that he would listen. It is said, but you cannot control adults. Plus all of his "research" would be in favor of his plan.0
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I think I'd ask him if he's talked to a doctor or nutritionist about whether this is a wise approach and what weight he should be targeting, and encourage him to do so if he hasn't.0
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If you believe that what he is doing is endangering his health and life and he is talking to you about it then I think you should tell him your concerns and suggest he run his plan by his doctor and a dietician. He may not be convinced but maybe he will think it over. At least he might stop telling you about it knowing how you feel.
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I say ask questions that make him think. How did you come to decide on those restrictions? Do you find yourself hungry? Do you really think it's something you can do long term? What goals are you trying to accomplish? Do you think this lifestyle is helping you do that? Try to interject things like, "You know if I tried to completely cut out sugar, I think I'd go nuts!!! That has to be really hard because most everything has some form of sugar." Don't hold back on things like seeing a dietician and making sure what he's doing is healthy, etc.0
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Offer to point him in the direction of facts. This will leave him still feeling he's in control, as you aren't actually telling him what to do. If he says no, then ask him not to discuss it with you further and reinforce this every time he tries.0
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robingmurphy wrote: »I think I'd ask him if he's talked to a doctor or nutritionist about whether this is a wise approach and what weight he should be targeting, and encourage him to do so if he hasn't.
+1
If he is as obsessive as he sounds, the suggestion that his eating habits might cause other health issues may catch his attention.0 -
If he's going on and on about what he's doing, why not go on and on about what you're doing. How much more energetic and stronger you feel, how much healthier you've been over the last year, that sort of thing. Not in a competitive or contradictory way, but enthusiastically and agreeing with him that balanced eating makes such a difference (without agreeing with his diet in any way).
Sometimes people will take the info in without seeming to - especially when they start to feel crummy and are looking for a way to feel healthy again.0 -
If he's going on and on about what he's doing, why not go on and on about what you're doing. How much more energetic and stronger you feel, how much healthier you've been over the last year, that sort of thing. Not in a competitive or contradictory way, but enthusiastically and agreeing with him that balanced eating makes such a difference (without agreeing with his diet in any way).
Sometimes people will take the info in without seeming to - especially when they start to feel crummy and are looking for a way to feel healthy again.
I agree with this
Also If I had to listen to that all day long I would in the end have to say something as tactful as possible.0 -
Probably not going to be popular, but here goes. I wouldn't say anything and would put some distance in the relationship. You said you aren't close to him and he's displaying obsessive paranoid behavior while also potentially going through a divorce. Unless I'm super close to someone I back away from "abnormal behavior" not step into the line of fire.0
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