Sugar-Do you count natural sugars?

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Replies

  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    Melmo1988 wrote: »
    Melmo1988 wrote: »
    Melmo1988 wrote: »
    Melmo1988 wrote: »
    I have informed myself. I like how I feel when I avoid it instead of consuming lots of it. Why do you care?

    You're saying refined sugar isn't from things that grow in nature, that it's fake. Those statements are incorrect.

    Yea it comes from nature but then it is processed and refined. Fruit comes straight from the plant and eaten.
    If it works for you, eat all the sugar you want

    How sugar gets processed and refined:

    Centrifugal force and water. No chemicals or anything involved in the process.

    Sugar beets are sliced and soaked in hot water to extract the sugar. This sugar water gets boiled then dried. The brown molasses get removed by spinning it in a centrifuge, the rest of the brown color gets removed by being sprayed with water.
    That's all.
    It's in no way, shape or form different from the sugar that was in the beet to begin with. In fact, many fruits are containing the exact same sugar.

    But I'm wasting my time here because you obviously already think it's the devil and no amount of actual facts is going to change that.

    I didn't say it's the devil, just that avoiding it is working for me

    No, that's not all you said.

    I said IMO natural sugar is different than processed. And it is because it affects ME differently

    Except it doesn't affect you differentially no matter your opinion. The actual sugar content does not affect you any suddenly. Everything else coming with that sugar? Sure, I'd absolutely agree different foods are affecting you differently, for myriad reasons.
  • SWellz
    SWellz Posts: 62 Member
    Whenever I eat a lot of fruit I go over. Whenever I eat two eggs I go over on cholesterol. My labs have always been good, so I figure it's not worth stressing over if I'm not eating an entire meat-lover's pizza or a pint of ice cream by myself.
  • Lovee_Dove7
    Lovee_Dove7 Posts: 741 Member
    Melmo1988 wrote: »
    Every day I go over my sugar "goal" but when I subtract my fruit and veggie sugars I am well under. I don't think natural sugar should count but curious what everyone else thinks.
    An example: Today I prelogged my diary and I have 63g of sugar and my goal is 45g. I subtracted my two servings of fruit and the sugars in my homemade vegetable soup and I have only had about 24g of actual added sugar.

    Sugar is sugar in your system irregardless of the source.
    How is your body handling your sugar? It's easy to use a glucometer at home to find out. Test your blood first thing in the morning, then 2 hours after dinner.
    Track fiber also. If you have plenty of fiber with your meals (including soluble fiber, which helps to slow down sugar's entrance into your blood stream), this helps your body to regulate sugar.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    edited February 2016
    You know cakes and cookies taste good

    It's not because of added sugar

    It's because of the delightful mix of carbs and fats to create something that is designed to be hyper palatable

    As these products are densely calorific it makes sense to pay attention to the amount you consume because in order to eat that slice of cake you will probably have to forgo that entire meal later in the day ...so is the opportunity cost worth it? Sometimes it is, but rarely when you have actually been hungry because that's a choice you've made in the past

    Track commitment and willpower over sugars, track fibre or calcium intake over sugars, you already have the carb macro to track sugars

    When you get caught up in feeling all holier than thou because you are managing to control an unnecessary element within the scope of your diet, you should probably consider and readdress your own feelings ....what you should, IMO look to focus on is the overall nutritional balance of your entire diet

  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,479 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    Melmo1988 wrote: »
    Melmo1988 wrote: »
    I have informed myself. I like how I feel when I avoid it instead of consuming lots of it. Why do you care?

    You're saying refined sugar isn't from things that grow in nature, that it's fake. Those statements are incorrect.

    Yea it comes from nature but then it is processed and refined. Fruit comes straight from the plant and eaten.
    If it works for you, eat all the sugar you want

    How sugar gets processed and refined:

    Centrifugal force and water. No chemicals or anything involved in the process.

    Sugar beets are sliced and soaked in hot water to extract the sugar. This sugar water gets boiled then dried. The brown molasses get removed by spinning it in a centrifuge, the rest of the brown color gets removed by being sprayed with water.
    That's all.
    It's in no way, shape or form different from the sugar that was in the beet to begin with. In fact, many fruits are containing the exact same sugar.

    But I'm wasting my time here because you obviously already think it's the devil and no amount of actual facts is going to change that.

    I believe high fructose corn syrup is processed via chemical means.

    Created enzymatically ? Unlike sugar HFCS sees a different molecule entering the facility to that leaving it, which I guess makes it as processed as it could be.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    Basically, saying there is a difference between natural and added sugar is saying someone can pass this test:

    2fc00091c4c3275d938662496f1d5ba8.jpg
    It also requires molecules have some kind of memory, which pardon the appeal to consequences, is scary because it means all our water remembers being dinosaur urine.
  • miryamch420
    miryamch420 Posts: 19 Member
    I think we can all agree that, although fruits are very high in sugar the fiber and vitamins they bring along make it worth it (as opposed to "unnaturally" sweet foods).
    Personally I don't worry if I get a high intake of sugar from fruits. However, if you want to reduce sugar while keeping a good intake of fiber you can have more legumes in your diet (lentils, beans, chickpeas), which are also a good source of minerals and protein.
    I also sometimes swap my usual fruit with a handful of almonds for a snack (good fats, more protein). But generally, I try to keep fruits in my daily life.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    I think we can all agree that, although fruits are very high in sugar the fiber and vitamins they bring along make it worth it (as opposed to "unnaturally" sweet foods).
    Personally I don't worry if I get a high intake of sugar from fruits. However, if you want to reduce sugar while keeping a good intake of fiber you can have more legumes in your diet (lentils, beans, chickpeas), which are also a good source of minerals and protein.
    I also sometimes swap my usual fruit with a handful of almonds for a snack (good fats, more protein). But generally, I try to keep fruits in my daily life.

    There is no way we will agree on anything on here .. no way :)

    apart from smiling at the dinosaur urine comment of course
  • miryamch420
    miryamch420 Posts: 19 Member
    rabbitjb wrote: »


    apart from smiling at the dinosaur urine comment of course

    I think I would rather roll my eyes ;-)
  • PoundChaser2
    PoundChaser2 Posts: 241 Member
    Hope this helps...please don't beat me up
  • PoundChaser2
    PoundChaser2 Posts: 241 Member
    Runngurl43 wrote: »
    Hope this helps...please don't beat me up

    Oh no what happened to my post ....grrr
  • PoundChaser2
    PoundChaser2 Posts: 241 Member
    The problem with refined sugar -- and the reason it contributes to obesity and chronic diseases -- is its fast rate of metabolism, lack of healthy nutrients and inability to make you feel full. Sugar comes from sugar cane, yet extreme refinement has eliminated all of the fiber and plant nutrients. Refined sugar is quickly broken down into glucose and fructose. The increase in glucose spikes insulin and blood sugar levels, giving you a quick surge of energy. If you do not use this energy immediately, your body may turn it into fat. Fructose is metabolized in your liver and is absorbed at once, increasing fat cell production and workload on your liver. The quick digestion of refined sugar prevents fullness even after you eat a calorie-rich chocolate bar, leaving you hungry.

    Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored.

    Keep the Fiber As fruit is a rich source of fiber, the absorption of its sugars is slowed.
    Although fruit is extremely beneficial to your health, it is even more so when all of its constituents are still present. Once fruit has been stewed, cooked or juiced, the benefits decline, as the cell wall has been destroyed and the fiber of the fruit is less constructed. Thus, drinking a glass of orange juice, although still rich in nutrients, is much more concentrated in sugar and is not going to give you the fiber benefits of an orange. The same is true when you cook or stew apples for applesauce and raspberries for jam. Keep the fruit fiber, and your body will thank you.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,917 Member
    Runngurl43 wrote: »
    The problem with refined sugar -- and the reason it contributes to obesity and chronic diseases -- is its fast rate of metabolism, lack of healthy nutrients and inability to make you feel full.
    That entirely depends on the source of the sugar. No one eats straight sugar and the only thing where sugar would be completely alone with nothing else of nutritional value is sodas.
    Sugar comes from sugar cane, yet extreme refinement has eliminated all of the fiber and plant nutrients.
    You consider juicing and then drying the juice as extreme refinement?
    Refined sugar is quickly broken down into glucose and fructose. The increase in glucose spikes insulin and blood sugar levels, giving you a quick surge of energy. If you do not use this energy immediately, your body may turn it into fat.
    No, your body first and foremost turns it into glycogen and only if that glycogen is full will it turn to fat. And that is a moot point if you're in a deficit to begin with as you just use up that new fat later on in the day.
    Fructose is metabolized in your liver and is absorbed at once, increasing fat cell production and workload on your liver. The quick digestion of refined sugar prevents fullness even after you eat a calorie-rich chocolate bar, leaving you hungry.
    Less than 1% of fructose gets turned to fat straight away. And insulin comes with hormones that stop hunger.
    Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored.
    As I've said, how fast sugar is broken down is entirely dependent on your whole meal. Fiber is not the only thing that slows it down.
    Keep the Fiber As fruit is a rich source of fiber, the absorption of its sugars is slowed.
    Although fruit is extremely beneficial to your health, it is even more so when all of its constituents are still present. Once fruit has been stewed, cooked or juiced, the benefits decline, as the cell wall has been destroyed and the fiber of the fruit is less constructed. Thus, drinking a glass of orange juice, although still rich in nutrients, is much more concentrated in sugar and is not going to give you the fiber benefits of an orange. The same is true when you cook or stew apples for applesauce and raspberries for jam. Keep the fruit fiber, and your body will thank you.

    On the other hand, some nutrients only become properly available after you cook the food.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    I think we can all agree that, although fruits are very high in sugar the fiber and vitamins they bring along make it worth it (as opposed to "unnaturally" sweet foods).

    But some of these "unnaturally" sweet foods include, say, rhubarb, which has less inherent sugar than an apple. Does that mean homemade apple sauce (nothing added) is somehow better for you than homemade rhubarb sauce that includes a bit of sugar (but no more than the apple sauce in total)? What about oats with a bit of sugar, or a sweet potato pudding with some coconut milk and a bit of sugar (made this on Thanksgiving, it was good). Does the sugar rob the other ingredients of their benefits or transform them into something to be avoided, even though if it's no more than naturally is in an apple (and less than a banana)?

    That's my problem with the black and white thinking I see here.

    I, of course, agree that fruits are a great food to have in one's diet, and that high cal/low nutrient sweets are among the various foods that should be eaten in moderation only, as they fit within a reasonable amount of calories and after getting in more nutrient-dense foods (which for many means limiting them).
  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,177 Member
    edited February 2016
    To sum up:
    • there is no difference in how your body handles sugar, no matter the source. Sucrose, glucose, fructose, maltose, lactose, etc all get metabolized the same way, whether they are inherent in the food or added.
    • the amount of sugar you eat should be looked at in the context of the diet as a whole, not as a separate entity
    • eating sugar with no other nutrients (like in a soda or adding it to coffee or tea) is the worst way to eat sugar because there are no other macros to slow down the metabolism, unless your daily carbs are enough below your macro target to accommodate it.
    • "Natural" sugar sources like honey, agave nectar, maple syrup, etc. are no better than table sugar. For people concerned with HFCS, agave nectar actually has an even higher fructose profile.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    Runngurl43 wrote: »
    The problem with refined sugar -- and the reason it contributes to obesity and chronic diseases -- is its fast rate of metabolism, lack of healthy nutrients and inability to make you feel full.
    That entirely depends on the source of the sugar. No one eats straight sugar and the only thing where sugar would be completely alone with nothing else of nutritional value is sodas.
    Sugar comes from sugar cane, yet extreme refinement has eliminated all of the fiber and plant nutrients.
    You consider juicing and then drying the juice as extreme refinement?
    Refined sugar is quickly broken down into glucose and fructose. The increase in glucose spikes insulin and blood sugar levels, giving you a quick surge of energy. If you do not use this energy immediately, your body may turn it into fat.
    No, your body first and foremost turns it into glycogen and only if that glycogen is full will it turn to fat. And that is a moot point if you're in a deficit to begin with as you just use up that new fat later on in the day.
    Fructose is metabolized in your liver and is absorbed at once, increasing fat cell production and workload on your liver. The quick digestion of refined sugar prevents fullness even after you eat a calorie-rich chocolate bar, leaving you hungry.
    Less than 1% of fructose gets turned to fat straight away. And insulin comes with hormones that stop hunger.
    Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored.
    As I've said, how fast sugar is broken down is entirely dependent on your whole meal. Fiber is not the only thing that slows it down.
    Keep the Fiber As fruit is a rich source of fiber, the absorption of its sugars is slowed.
    Although fruit is extremely beneficial to your health, it is even more so when all of its constituents are still present. Once fruit has been stewed, cooked or juiced, the benefits decline, as the cell wall has been destroyed and the fiber of the fruit is less constructed. Thus, drinking a glass of orange juice, although still rich in nutrients, is much more concentrated in sugar and is not going to give you the fiber benefits of an orange. The same is true when you cook or stew apples for applesauce and raspberries for jam. Keep the fruit fiber, and your body will thank you.

    On the other hand, some nutrients only become properly available after you cook the food.

    And fructose actually has a low insulin impact.

    I've also never seen studies showing a micronutrients besides maybe sodium - potassium and iodine maybe - that impacts satiety. If they did, wouldn't we hand out multivitamins to the overweight instead of heart condition causing phentermine?

    Also, if fiber and nutrients are what matter, is a fiber one bar just as "natural" or "healthy" as fruit? Their caramel cheesecake tastes better than a banana.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,148 Member
    sugar = sugar

    so I don't worry about tracking it, and really one should only be concerned about it if there is a medical reason to avoid it.

    in the end what matters is that one gets adequate nutrition, hits macros, and stays within their calorie targets < if sugar prevents one from doing this, then it should be reduced.
  • snickerscharlie
    snickerscharlie Posts: 8,582 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    sugar = sugar

    so I don't worry about tracking it, and really one should only be concerned about it if there is a medical reason to avoid it.

    in the end what matters is that one gets adequate nutrition, hits macros, and stays within their calorie targets < if sugar prevents one from doing this, then it should be reduced.

    This. Sweet and simple. <pun intended>
  • Snow3y
    Snow3y Posts: 1,412 Member
    I don't count sugar ever. I'm not diabetic, so there's no need.
  • PoundChaser2
    PoundChaser2 Posts: 241 Member
    Runngurl43 wrote: »
    The problem with refined sugar -- and the reason it contributes to obesity and chronic diseases -- is its fast rate of metabolism, lack of healthy nutrients and inability to make you feel full.
    That entirely depends on the source of the sugar. No one eats straight sugar and the only thing where sugar would be completely alone with nothing else of nutritional value is sodas.
    Sugar comes from sugar cane, yet extreme refinement has eliminated all of the fiber and plant nutrients.
    You consider juicing and then drying the juice as extreme refinement?
    Refined sugar is quickly broken down into glucose and fructose. The increase in glucose spikes insulin and blood sugar levels, giving you a quick surge of energy. If you do not use this energy immediately, your body may turn it into fat.
    No, your body first and foremost turns it into glycogen and only if that glycogen is full will it turn to fat. And that is a moot point if you're in a deficit to begin with as you just use up that new fat later on in the day.
    Fructose is metabolized in your liver and is absorbed at once, increasing fat cell production and workload on your liver. The quick digestion of refined sugar prevents fullness even after you eat a calorie-rich chocolate bar, leaving you hungry.
    Less than 1% of fructose gets turned to fat straight away. And insulin comes with hormones that stop hunger.
    Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored.
    As I've said, how fast sugar is broken down is entirely dependent on your whole meal. Fiber is not the only thing that slows it down.
    Keep the Fiber As fruit is a rich source of fiber, the absorption of its sugars is slowed.
    Although fruit is extremely beneficial to your health, it is even more so when all of its constituents are still present. Once fruit has been stewed, cooked or juiced, the benefits decline, as the cell wall has been destroyed and the fiber of the fruit is less constructed. Thus, drinking a glass of orange juice, although still rich in nutrients, is much more concentrated in sugar and is not going to give you the fiber benefits of an orange. The same is true when you cook or stew apples for applesauce and raspberries for jam. Keep the fruit fiber, and your body will thank you.

    On the other hand, some nutrients only become properly available after you cook the food.

    If you say so