Sugar-Do you count natural sugars?
Replies
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Runngurl43 wrote: »Hope this helps...please don't beat me up
Oh no what happened to my post ....grrr0 -
The problem with refined sugar -- and the reason it contributes to obesity and chronic diseases -- is its fast rate of metabolism, lack of healthy nutrients and inability to make you feel full. Sugar comes from sugar cane, yet extreme refinement has eliminated all of the fiber and plant nutrients. Refined sugar is quickly broken down into glucose and fructose. The increase in glucose spikes insulin and blood sugar levels, giving you a quick surge of energy. If you do not use this energy immediately, your body may turn it into fat. Fructose is metabolized in your liver and is absorbed at once, increasing fat cell production and workload on your liver. The quick digestion of refined sugar prevents fullness even after you eat a calorie-rich chocolate bar, leaving you hungry.
Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored.
Keep the Fiber As fruit is a rich source of fiber, the absorption of its sugars is slowed.
Although fruit is extremely beneficial to your health, it is even more so when all of its constituents are still present. Once fruit has been stewed, cooked or juiced, the benefits decline, as the cell wall has been destroyed and the fiber of the fruit is less constructed. Thus, drinking a glass of orange juice, although still rich in nutrients, is much more concentrated in sugar and is not going to give you the fiber benefits of an orange. The same is true when you cook or stew apples for applesauce and raspberries for jam. Keep the fruit fiber, and your body will thank you.0 -
That entirely depends on the source of the sugar. No one eats straight sugar and the only thing where sugar would be completely alone with nothing else of nutritional value is sodas.Runngurl43 wrote: »The problem with refined sugar -- and the reason it contributes to obesity and chronic diseases -- is its fast rate of metabolism, lack of healthy nutrients and inability to make you feel full.
You consider juicing and then drying the juice as extreme refinement?Sugar comes from sugar cane, yet extreme refinement has eliminated all of the fiber and plant nutrients.
No, your body first and foremost turns it into glycogen and only if that glycogen is full will it turn to fat. And that is a moot point if you're in a deficit to begin with as you just use up that new fat later on in the day.Refined sugar is quickly broken down into glucose and fructose. The increase in glucose spikes insulin and blood sugar levels, giving you a quick surge of energy. If you do not use this energy immediately, your body may turn it into fat.
Less than 1% of fructose gets turned to fat straight away. And insulin comes with hormones that stop hunger.Fructose is metabolized in your liver and is absorbed at once, increasing fat cell production and workload on your liver. The quick digestion of refined sugar prevents fullness even after you eat a calorie-rich chocolate bar, leaving you hungry.
As I've said, how fast sugar is broken down is entirely dependent on your whole meal. Fiber is not the only thing that slows it down.Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored.Keep the Fiber As fruit is a rich source of fiber, the absorption of its sugars is slowed.
Although fruit is extremely beneficial to your health, it is even more so when all of its constituents are still present. Once fruit has been stewed, cooked or juiced, the benefits decline, as the cell wall has been destroyed and the fiber of the fruit is less constructed. Thus, drinking a glass of orange juice, although still rich in nutrients, is much more concentrated in sugar and is not going to give you the fiber benefits of an orange. The same is true when you cook or stew apples for applesauce and raspberries for jam. Keep the fruit fiber, and your body will thank you.
On the other hand, some nutrients only become properly available after you cook the food.0 -
miryamch420 wrote: »I think we can all agree that, although fruits are very high in sugar the fiber and vitamins they bring along make it worth it (as opposed to "unnaturally" sweet foods).
But some of these "unnaturally" sweet foods include, say, rhubarb, which has less inherent sugar than an apple. Does that mean homemade apple sauce (nothing added) is somehow better for you than homemade rhubarb sauce that includes a bit of sugar (but no more than the apple sauce in total)? What about oats with a bit of sugar, or a sweet potato pudding with some coconut milk and a bit of sugar (made this on Thanksgiving, it was good). Does the sugar rob the other ingredients of their benefits or transform them into something to be avoided, even though if it's no more than naturally is in an apple (and less than a banana)?
That's my problem with the black and white thinking I see here.
I, of course, agree that fruits are a great food to have in one's diet, and that high cal/low nutrient sweets are among the various foods that should be eaten in moderation only, as they fit within a reasonable amount of calories and after getting in more nutrient-dense foods (which for many means limiting them).0 -
To sum up:
- there is no difference in how your body handles sugar, no matter the source. Sucrose, glucose, fructose, maltose, lactose, etc all get metabolized the same way, whether they are inherent in the food or added.
- the amount of sugar you eat should be looked at in the context of the diet as a whole, not as a separate entity
- eating sugar with no other nutrients (like in a soda or adding it to coffee or tea) is the worst way to eat sugar because there are no other macros to slow down the metabolism, unless your daily carbs are enough below your macro target to accommodate it.
- "Natural" sugar sources like honey, agave nectar, maple syrup, etc. are no better than table sugar. For people concerned with HFCS, agave nectar actually has an even higher fructose profile.
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stevencloser wrote: »
That entirely depends on the source of the sugar. No one eats straight sugar and the only thing where sugar would be completely alone with nothing else of nutritional value is sodas.Runngurl43 wrote: »The problem with refined sugar -- and the reason it contributes to obesity and chronic diseases -- is its fast rate of metabolism, lack of healthy nutrients and inability to make you feel full.
You consider juicing and then drying the juice as extreme refinement?Sugar comes from sugar cane, yet extreme refinement has eliminated all of the fiber and plant nutrients.
No, your body first and foremost turns it into glycogen and only if that glycogen is full will it turn to fat. And that is a moot point if you're in a deficit to begin with as you just use up that new fat later on in the day.Refined sugar is quickly broken down into glucose and fructose. The increase in glucose spikes insulin and blood sugar levels, giving you a quick surge of energy. If you do not use this energy immediately, your body may turn it into fat.
Less than 1% of fructose gets turned to fat straight away. And insulin comes with hormones that stop hunger.Fructose is metabolized in your liver and is absorbed at once, increasing fat cell production and workload on your liver. The quick digestion of refined sugar prevents fullness even after you eat a calorie-rich chocolate bar, leaving you hungry.
As I've said, how fast sugar is broken down is entirely dependent on your whole meal. Fiber is not the only thing that slows it down.Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored.Keep the Fiber As fruit is a rich source of fiber, the absorption of its sugars is slowed.
Although fruit is extremely beneficial to your health, it is even more so when all of its constituents are still present. Once fruit has been stewed, cooked or juiced, the benefits decline, as the cell wall has been destroyed and the fiber of the fruit is less constructed. Thus, drinking a glass of orange juice, although still rich in nutrients, is much more concentrated in sugar and is not going to give you the fiber benefits of an orange. The same is true when you cook or stew apples for applesauce and raspberries for jam. Keep the fruit fiber, and your body will thank you.
On the other hand, some nutrients only become properly available after you cook the food.
And fructose actually has a low insulin impact.
I've also never seen studies showing a micronutrients besides maybe sodium - potassium and iodine maybe - that impacts satiety. If they did, wouldn't we hand out multivitamins to the overweight instead of heart condition causing phentermine?
Also, if fiber and nutrients are what matter, is a fiber one bar just as "natural" or "healthy" as fruit? Their caramel cheesecake tastes better than a banana.0 -
sugar = sugar
so I don't worry about tracking it, and really one should only be concerned about it if there is a medical reason to avoid it.
in the end what matters is that one gets adequate nutrition, hits macros, and stays within their calorie targets < if sugar prevents one from doing this, then it should be reduced.0 -
sugar = sugar
so I don't worry about tracking it, and really one should only be concerned about it if there is a medical reason to avoid it.
in the end what matters is that one gets adequate nutrition, hits macros, and stays within their calorie targets < if sugar prevents one from doing this, then it should be reduced.
This. Sweet and simple. <pun intended>0 -
I don't count sugar ever. I'm not diabetic, so there's no need.0
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stevencloser wrote: »
That entirely depends on the source of the sugar. No one eats straight sugar and the only thing where sugar would be completely alone with nothing else of nutritional value is sodas.Runngurl43 wrote: »The problem with refined sugar -- and the reason it contributes to obesity and chronic diseases -- is its fast rate of metabolism, lack of healthy nutrients and inability to make you feel full.
You consider juicing and then drying the juice as extreme refinement?Sugar comes from sugar cane, yet extreme refinement has eliminated all of the fiber and plant nutrients.
No, your body first and foremost turns it into glycogen and only if that glycogen is full will it turn to fat. And that is a moot point if you're in a deficit to begin with as you just use up that new fat later on in the day.Refined sugar is quickly broken down into glucose and fructose. The increase in glucose spikes insulin and blood sugar levels, giving you a quick surge of energy. If you do not use this energy immediately, your body may turn it into fat.
Less than 1% of fructose gets turned to fat straight away. And insulin comes with hormones that stop hunger.Fructose is metabolized in your liver and is absorbed at once, increasing fat cell production and workload on your liver. The quick digestion of refined sugar prevents fullness even after you eat a calorie-rich chocolate bar, leaving you hungry.
As I've said, how fast sugar is broken down is entirely dependent on your whole meal. Fiber is not the only thing that slows it down.Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored.Keep the Fiber As fruit is a rich source of fiber, the absorption of its sugars is slowed.
Although fruit is extremely beneficial to your health, it is even more so when all of its constituents are still present. Once fruit has been stewed, cooked or juiced, the benefits decline, as the cell wall has been destroyed and the fiber of the fruit is less constructed. Thus, drinking a glass of orange juice, although still rich in nutrients, is much more concentrated in sugar and is not going to give you the fiber benefits of an orange. The same is true when you cook or stew apples for applesauce and raspberries for jam. Keep the fruit fiber, and your body will thank you.
On the other hand, some nutrients only become properly available after you cook the food.
If you say so0 -
Runngurl43 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »
That entirely depends on the source of the sugar. No one eats straight sugar and the only thing where sugar would be completely alone with nothing else of nutritional value is sodas.Runngurl43 wrote: »The problem with refined sugar -- and the reason it contributes to obesity and chronic diseases -- is its fast rate of metabolism, lack of healthy nutrients and inability to make you feel full.
You consider juicing and then drying the juice as extreme refinement?Sugar comes from sugar cane, yet extreme refinement has eliminated all of the fiber and plant nutrients.
No, your body first and foremost turns it into glycogen and only if that glycogen is full will it turn to fat. And that is a moot point if you're in a deficit to begin with as you just use up that new fat later on in the day.Refined sugar is quickly broken down into glucose and fructose. The increase in glucose spikes insulin and blood sugar levels, giving you a quick surge of energy. If you do not use this energy immediately, your body may turn it into fat.
Less than 1% of fructose gets turned to fat straight away. And insulin comes with hormones that stop hunger.Fructose is metabolized in your liver and is absorbed at once, increasing fat cell production and workload on your liver. The quick digestion of refined sugar prevents fullness even after you eat a calorie-rich chocolate bar, leaving you hungry.
As I've said, how fast sugar is broken down is entirely dependent on your whole meal. Fiber is not the only thing that slows it down.Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored.Keep the Fiber As fruit is a rich source of fiber, the absorption of its sugars is slowed.
Although fruit is extremely beneficial to your health, it is even more so when all of its constituents are still present. Once fruit has been stewed, cooked or juiced, the benefits decline, as the cell wall has been destroyed and the fiber of the fruit is less constructed. Thus, drinking a glass of orange juice, although still rich in nutrients, is much more concentrated in sugar and is not going to give you the fiber benefits of an orange. The same is true when you cook or stew apples for applesauce and raspberries for jam. Keep the fruit fiber, and your body will thank you.
On the other hand, some nutrients only become properly available after you cook the food.
If you say so
He is still right you know0 -
Runngurl43 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »
That entirely depends on the source of the sugar. No one eats straight sugar and the only thing where sugar would be completely alone with nothing else of nutritional value is sodas.Runngurl43 wrote: »The problem with refined sugar -- and the reason it contributes to obesity and chronic diseases -- is its fast rate of metabolism, lack of healthy nutrients and inability to make you feel full.
You consider juicing and then drying the juice as extreme refinement?Sugar comes from sugar cane, yet extreme refinement has eliminated all of the fiber and plant nutrients.
No, your body first and foremost turns it into glycogen and only if that glycogen is full will it turn to fat. And that is a moot point if you're in a deficit to begin with as you just use up that new fat later on in the day.Refined sugar is quickly broken down into glucose and fructose. The increase in glucose spikes insulin and blood sugar levels, giving you a quick surge of energy. If you do not use this energy immediately, your body may turn it into fat.
Less than 1% of fructose gets turned to fat straight away. And insulin comes with hormones that stop hunger.Fructose is metabolized in your liver and is absorbed at once, increasing fat cell production and workload on your liver. The quick digestion of refined sugar prevents fullness even after you eat a calorie-rich chocolate bar, leaving you hungry.
As I've said, how fast sugar is broken down is entirely dependent on your whole meal. Fiber is not the only thing that slows it down.Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored.Keep the Fiber As fruit is a rich source of fiber, the absorption of its sugars is slowed.
Although fruit is extremely beneficial to your health, it is even more so when all of its constituents are still present. Once fruit has been stewed, cooked or juiced, the benefits decline, as the cell wall has been destroyed and the fiber of the fruit is less constructed. Thus, drinking a glass of orange juice, although still rich in nutrients, is much more concentrated in sugar and is not going to give you the fiber benefits of an orange. The same is true when you cook or stew apples for applesauce and raspberries for jam. Keep the fruit fiber, and your body will thank you.
On the other hand, some nutrients only become properly available after you cook the food.
If you say so
Not only @stevencloser says so, but the scientists who study nutrition and metabolism say so.0 -
How the body metabolizes the sugar in fruit and milk differs from how it metabolizes the refined sugar added to processed foods. The body breaks down refined sugar rapidly, causing insulin and blood sugar levels to skyrocket. Because refined sugar is digested quickly, you don’t feel full after you’re done eating, no matter how many calories you consumed. The fiber in fruit slows down metabolism, as fruit in the gut expands to make you feel full.
But there’s a caveat, Baker says. Once the sugar passes through the stomach and reaches the small intestine, it doesn’t matter if it came from an apple or a soft drink.
“How much sugar is already in your blood will determine how the body uses the sugar,” Baker says. “If you already have a lot of sugar in your system, then what you just digested will form either fat or glycogen, the storage form of glucose that’s used for quick energy. It doesn’t matter if it’s junk food or fruit.”
i read this recently (from Cancer treatments of America) and seems sensible to me0 -
If your diet consists of a wide variety of foods, (nutrient dense and calorie dense) calories are controlled and have no medical issues, then sugar is a non issue...0
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crispsandwich wrote: »How the body metabolizes the sugar in fruit and milk differs from how it metabolizes the refined sugar added to processed foods. The body breaks down refined sugar rapidly, causing insulin and blood sugar levels to skyrocket. Because refined sugar is digested quickly, you don’t feel full after you’re done eating, no matter how many calories you consumed. The fiber in fruit slows down metabolism, as fruit in the gut expands to make you feel full.
But there’s a caveat, Baker says. Once the sugar passes through the stomach and reaches the small intestine, it doesn’t matter if it came from an apple or a soft drink.
“How much sugar is already in your blood will determine how the body uses the sugar,” Baker says. “If you already have a lot of sugar in your system, then what you just digested will form either fat or glycogen, the storage form of glucose that’s used for quick energy. It doesn’t matter if it’s junk food or fruit.”
i read this recently (from Cancer treatments of America) and seems sensible to me
It is not how the body metabolizes the sugar that is different, it is how the body breaks down the food, and sugar that is accompanied by other nutrients gets broken down slower than sugar that is on its own. It doesn't matter if the sugar is developed as fruit matures or if it is added to a dish that has a similar nutritional profile as a certain piece of fruit.
It is important to remember that no digestion happens in the stomach. The stomach is there to add digestive juices to food and churn it up and break it down into sludge so it can move into the small intestine, where actual digestion happens. Anything that does not need to be churned in order to be digested will pass quickly through to the intestines.
A good example of how sugar on its own moves fast is when a diabetic is having a low glycemic episode. What do you you give them?: sugar that isn't accompanied by other nutrients like a glucose tab, piece of hard candy, or orange juice. Even eating orange slices isn't as effective as juice since it takes longer for the sugar to hit the bloodstream because the stomach has to churn up the membrane and pulp in the orange before it can use the sugar. Giving a glucose tab along with a cracker will have the same effect, the sugar just will not hit the bloodstream as fast even though the glucose tab is pure sugar.
Once again, it is not the sugar that makes a difference, it is the total nutritional profile of the meal, taken as a whole, that makes a difference.
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I lost what little interest I had in tracking sugar on the day when 50% my sugar came from an apple and 25% from a carrot.0
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Runngurl43 wrote: »The problem with refined sugar -- and the reason it contributes to obesity and chronic diseases -- is its fast rate of metabolism, lack of healthy nutrients and inability to make you feel full. Sugar comes from sugar cane, yet extreme refinement has eliminated all of the fiber and plant nutrients. Refined sugar is quickly broken down into glucose and fructose. The increase in glucose spikes insulin and blood sugar levels, giving you a quick surge of energy. If you do not use this energy immediately, your body may turn it into fat. Fructose is metabolized in your liver and is absorbed at once, increasing fat cell production and workload on your liver. The quick digestion of refined sugar prevents fullness even after you eat a calorie-rich chocolate bar, leaving you hungry.
Fruit contains many benefits compared to refined sugar. Besides being rich in antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, fruit is an excellent source of fiber. The presence of fiber in fruit determines what happens to fruit sugars in your body and how quickly they are broken down in your gastrointestinal tract. Unlike refined sugar, fiber in fruit expands in your gut, making you feel full. Fiber is the biggest secret as to why fruit sugars are not as dangerous as refined sugar, preventing the sugars from being rapidly broken down and stored.
Keep the Fiber As fruit is a rich source of fiber, the absorption of its sugars is slowed.
Although fruit is extremely beneficial to your health, it is even more so when all of its constituents are still present. Once fruit has been stewed, cooked or juiced, the benefits decline, as the cell wall has been destroyed and the fiber of the fruit is less constructed. Thus, drinking a glass of orange juice, although still rich in nutrients, is much more concentrated in sugar and is not going to give you the fiber benefits of an orange. The same is true when you cook or stew apples for applesauce and raspberries for jam. Keep the fruit fiber, and your body will thank you.
Put sugar and a fiber-con in my coffee. Got it.0 -
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stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »
Yea it comes from nature but then it is processed and refined. Fruit comes straight from the plant and eaten.
If it works for you, eat all the sugar you want
How sugar gets processed and refined:
Centrifugal force and water. No chemicals or anything involved in the process.
Sugar beets are sliced and soaked in hot water to extract the sugar. This sugar water gets boiled then dried. The brown molasses get removed by spinning it in a centrifuge, the rest of the brown color gets removed by being sprayed with water.
That's all.
It's in no way, shape or form different from the sugar that was in the beet to begin with. In fact, many fruits are containing the exact same sugar.
But I'm wasting my time here because you obviously already think it's the devil and no amount of actual facts is going to change that.
I believe high fructose corn syrup is processed via chemical means.
Created enzymatically ? Unlike sugar HFCS sees a different molecule entering the facility to that leaving it, which I guess makes it as processed as it could be.
Like natural cheese (not cheese food product) and yogurt. Or anything cooked in a factory. Or anything fermented. Or, well, almost anything. All "as processed as can be"0 -
I think there are related issues being conflated here. The reason it's good to avoid refined sugar is because it's easy to end up eating too much sugar if you eat foods that contain it. But many of the negative effects from too much sugar will still exist with natural sugar (e.g. if you drank a lot of fruit juice, esp. clear fruit juice, in a day), and a lot of processed foods contain extra sugar that the natural equivalent simply wouldn't have (it's a favorite trick of food manufacturers to put in lots of unnecessary sugar and salt, which offset each other's taste but trigger subconscious cravings)
Basically, added sugar is an issue because it makes it easy to consume too much sugar compared to other nutrients (and other calorie sources such as protein), not because a gram of sugar from one source is worse than a gram from another source.
Really I'd like to see MFP add the ability to track net carbs (which can be done with existing data) before tracking natural vs added sugar (which would need a million data entries to be updated, with information that doesn't appear on nutrition labels)0 -
crispsandwich wrote: »How the body metabolizes the sugar in fruit and milk differs from how it metabolizes the refined sugar added to processed foods. The body breaks down refined sugar rapidly, causing insulin and blood sugar levels to skyrocket. Because refined sugar is digested quickly, you don’t feel full after you’re done eating, no matter how many calories you consumed. The fiber in fruit slows down metabolism, as fruit in the gut expands to make you feel full.
But there’s a caveat, Baker says. Once the sugar passes through the stomach and reaches the small intestine, it doesn’t matter if it came from an apple or a soft drink.
“How much sugar is already in your blood will determine how the body uses the sugar,” Baker says. “If you already have a lot of sugar in your system, then what you just digested will form either fat or glycogen, the storage form of glucose that’s used for quick energy. It doesn’t matter if it’s junk food or fruit.”
i read this recently (from Cancer treatments of America) and seems sensible to me
Any source that says that food slows down your metabolism instead of slows down your digestions sounds like it isn't knowledgeable enough to be explaining things.
Food almost invariably raises metabolism - I've seen some results that in obese individuals TEF might be negative for eating nearly pure fats but that's about it. Typically, any food produces some increase in metabolism. Most notably, protein has the highest TEF (increase in metabolism) but I believe it is the most likely to produce a slowdown in digestion as your body has limits on how much it can breakdown quickly, and has limits on how much it can keep available for use (near zero outside of the long term storage of building lean mass).0 -
Random832A wrote: »I think there are related issues being conflated here. The reason it's good to avoid refined sugar is because it's easy to end up eating too much sugar if you eat foods that contain it. But many of the negative effects from too much sugar will still exist with natural sugar (e.g. if you drank a lot of fruit juice, esp. clear fruit juice, in a day), and a lot of processed foods contain extra sugar that the natural equivalent simply wouldn't have (it's a favorite trick of food manufacturers to put in lots of unnecessary sugar and salt, which offset each other's taste but trigger subconscious cravings)
Basically, added sugar is an issue because it makes it easy to consume too much sugar compared to other nutrients (and other calorie sources such as protein), not because a gram of sugar from one source is worse than a gram from another source.
Really I'd like to see MFP add the ability to track net carbs (which can be done with existing data) before tracking natural vs added sugar (which would need a million data entries to be updated, with information that doesn't appear on nutrition labels)
There's an extension you can get for chrome desktop that will add net carbs to MFP, along with provide a host of other options.0 -
Random832A wrote: »I think there are related issues being conflated here. The reason it's good to avoid refined sugar is because it's easy to end up eating too much sugar if you eat foods that contain it. But many of the negative effects from too much sugar will still exist with natural sugar (e.g. if you drank a lot of fruit juice, esp. clear fruit juice, in a day), and a lot of processed foods contain extra sugar that the natural equivalent simply wouldn't have (it's a favorite trick of food manufacturers to put in lots of unnecessary sugar and salt, which offset each other's taste but trigger subconscious cravings)
Basically, added sugar is an issue because it makes it easy to consume too much sugar compared to other nutrients (and other calorie sources such as protein), not because a gram of sugar from one source is worse than a gram from another source.
Really I'd like to see MFP add the ability to track net carbs (which can be done with existing data) before tracking natural vs added sugar (which would need a million data entries to be updated, with information that doesn't appear on nutrition labels)
it is also easy to overeat on foods that are high in fats, which was my problem when I was overweight. I almost never over ate sugar things, but put some mozzarella sticks in front of me, or buffalo wings, and watch me to go to town...
Again, the problem is excess calories not added sugar, natural sugar, refined sugar, etc, which, consequently, are all the same....0 -
Ready2Rock206 wrote: »I track fiber rather than sugar.
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crispsandwich wrote: »How the body metabolizes the sugar in fruit and milk differs from how it metabolizes the refined sugar added to processed foods. The body breaks down refined sugar rapidly, causing insulin and blood sugar levels to skyrocket.
No. You are positing this as a difference between sugars, and it's not. The body will metabolize the sugar from fruit juice (i.e., fruit sugar) probably faster than the sugar from the typical sweet baked good or the like, as that will at least contain some fat and possibly a little fiber.
Yes, you do break down fruit slower (to some extent, depending on you and on the type of fruit) than other foods without fiber, but that's because the foods themselves are different and the sugar is (of course) not eaten in isolated fashion, NOT because of some difference between sugar in a beet (when you eat a beet) and sugar from a sugarbeet that has been extracted and added to some other sort of food. And, again, if the food the sugar is added to has fiber (as with my rhubarb or oatmeal example), it will be metabolized more slowly, just like when eating fruit.
I really wish people would actually address this point.
I don't know anything about how lactose is metabolized, but I would expect it to be quite quickly, as there isn't any fiber, and that is, in fact, my personal experience which is why yogurt works well for me as a pre-run snack (just as a banana does).
The whole thing about blood sugar levels skyrocketing seems to assume some problem with this that people who don't have insulin issues likely do not have. I don't really care if something is bad for someone with IR, as I don't have it, and thus that should not be assumed when giving nutrition advice.Because refined sugar is digested quickly, you don’t feel full after you’re done eating, no matter how many calories you consumed. The fiber in fruit slows down metabolism, as fruit in the gut expands to make you feel full.
Again, this has nothing to do with the types of sugars being different -- fruit sugar is not filling either, oatmeal or rhubarb with a bit of sugar don't become magically non-filling. I never eat sugar alone, so saying it's not filling seems rather senseless to me. Okay, don't try to fill up by (ick) eating sugar or by drinking soda or juice or whatever.
Also, what's filling differs from person to person.But there’s a caveat, Baker says. Once the sugar passes through the stomach and reaches the small intestine, it doesn’t matter if it came from an apple or a soft drink.
“How much sugar is already in your blood will determine how the body uses the sugar,” Baker says. “If you already have a lot of sugar in your system, then what you just digested will form either fat or glycogen, the storage form of glucose that’s used for quick energy. It doesn’t matter if it’s junk food or fruit.”
I'd add that whether you have "a lot of sugar in your system" (i.e., your glycogen storage is full) depends not on the percentage of sugar you eat but on whether you are eating at a deficit or not, and that we are constantly using and adding fat so what matters is the net result. The idea that you can trick your system into not gaining weight/fat if you cut back on sugar but continue eating a surplus of calories is, of course, false.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »crispsandwich wrote: »How the body metabolizes the sugar in fruit and milk differs from how it metabolizes the refined sugar added to processed foods. The body breaks down refined sugar rapidly, causing insulin and blood sugar levels to skyrocket.
No. You are positing this as a difference between sugars, and it's not. The body will metabolize the sugar from fruit juice (i.e., fruit sugar) probably faster than the sugar from the typical sweet baked good or the like, as that will at least contain some fat and possibly a little fiber.
Yes, you do break down fruit slower (to some extent, depending on you and on the type of fruit) than other foods without fiber, but that's because the foods themselves are different and the sugar is (of course) not eaten in isolated fashion, NOT because of some difference between sugar in a beet (when you eat a beet) and sugar from a sugarbeet that has been extracted and added to some other sort of food. And, again, if the food the sugar is added to has fiber (as with my rhubarb or oatmeal example), it will be metabolized more slowly, just like when eating fruit.
I really wish people would actually address this point.
I don't know anything about how lactose is metabolized, but I would expect it to be quite quickly, as there isn't any fiber, and that is, in fact, my personal experience which is why yogurt works well for me as a pre-run snack (just as a banana does).
The whole thing about blood sugar levels skyrocketing seems to assume some problem with this that people who don't have insulin issues likely do not have. I don't really care if something is bad for someone with IR, as I don't have it, and thus that should not be assumed when giving nutrition advice.Because refined sugar is digested quickly, you don’t feel full after you’re done eating, no matter how many calories you consumed. The fiber in fruit slows down metabolism, as fruit in the gut expands to make you feel full.
Again, this has nothing to do with the types of sugars being different -- fruit sugar is not filling either, oatmeal or rhubarb with a bit of sugar don't become magically non-filling. I never eat sugar alone, so saying it's not filling seems rather senseless to me. Okay, don't try to fill up by (ick) eating sugar or by drinking soda or juice or whatever.
Also, what's filling differs from person to person.But there’s a caveat, Baker says. Once the sugar passes through the stomach and reaches the small intestine, it doesn’t matter if it came from an apple or a soft drink.
“How much sugar is already in your blood will determine how the body uses the sugar,” Baker says. “If you already have a lot of sugar in your system, then what you just digested will form either fat or glycogen, the storage form of glucose that’s used for quick energy. It doesn’t matter if it’s junk food or fruit.”
I'd add that whether you have "a lot of sugar in your system" (i.e., your glycogen storage is full) depends not on the percentage of sugar you eat but on whether you are eating at a deficit or not, and that we are constantly using and adding fat so what matters is the net result. The idea that you can trick your system into not gaining weight/fat if you cut back on sugar but continue eating a surplus of calories is, of course, false.
Lactose gets cleaved into glucose and galactose by lactase created by microvilli in the intestines. There are pathways that are pretty rapid at converting the galactose into glucose.0 -
Random832A wrote: »The reason it's good to avoid refined sugar is because it's easy to end up eating too much sugar if you eat foods that contain it.
Yes, that's what the WHO and the new US Dietary Guidelines say -- although they don't say to avoid it, but to keep it to below 5-10% of calories -- and I think that's sensible. I do think we shouldn't adopt black and white thinking about this -- added sugar isn't magically more caloric than other sugars -- and should take into account that even added sugar can be included in a nutrient-dense dish people aren't likely to overeat. The issue is that a huge percentage of the added sugar consumed in the US (and certain other countries) comes from foods like soda and desserts. But smaller amounts are added to plenty of other foods (like my rhubarb and oatmeal examples) and this does not make those foods bad for you or to be avoided. (Nor does it mean we start overeating them.)But many of the negative effects from too much sugar will still exist with natural sugar (e.g. if you drank a lot of fruit juice, esp. clear fruit juice, in a day), and a lot of processed foods contain extra sugar that the natural equivalent simply wouldn't have (it's a favorite trick of food manufacturers to put in lots of unnecessary sugar and salt, which offset each other's taste but trigger subconscious cravings)
Also to put in lots of fat -- see the book Sugar, Salt, Fat. Some products become "low fat" and add sugar instead, but now that we are demonizing sugar the opposite also happens. The smart thing is to read labels and not assume "low fat" means "good for you" or "low cal." That would be dumb!
The WHO, btw, considers the sugar in fruit juice to be essentially "added sugar" (or as they term it, free sugar), and include it in the sugar that should be limited. Again, that's because there's no difference between "refined sugar" and "sugar in foods" -- the difference is in what they are packaged with.
I also am not convinced that the ingredients in cheap manufactured foods trigger cravings. I think the bigger issue is that they make them hyperpalable to many (not me, typically, I tend not to like many such foods), while also being cheap and available. Homemade is still tastier, but requires a lot more time and effort and skill. If we had homemade apple crisp or even homemade pulled pork and delicious freshly baked bread available at all times, even with less sugar and salt included, we'd overeat those as badly or worse. Lucky for me, I guess, I don't have the resources to have someone cooking for me and making these foods available all the time. Nor has it been normalized to eat them throughout the day, willy-nilly, as seems to have happened with many snack items. THAT'S the bigger issue, IMO, not that Twinkies (ugh) are magically causing us to crave them (I didn't even crave them at age 10 or whenever I last had one).Basically, added sugar is an issue because it makes it easy to consume too much sugar compared to other nutrients (and other calorie sources such as protein), not because a gram of sugar from one source is worse than a gram from another source.
Pretty much, subject to my earlier comments, but as ndj said, same with fat and other delicious foods that are a combination of macros. I was just thinking about this last night when I was eating a delicious pork chop (delicious! maybe because from a locally-raised pig with more fat than the usual supermarket pork, maybe because I just happened to cook it perfectly). But I'd intended to eat a portion of the chop (it was big) and save the rest for later, but I could not stop eating! And that was despite also eating plenty of vegetables and some potatoes with it. Didn't have the issue with the potatoes and, for what it's worth, I also didn't feel so compelled to eat, at all, when eating the paczki (jelly doughnut, in case you don't know) I had earlier in the day. And it was a tasty paczki.Really I'd like to see MFP add the ability to track net carbs (which can be done with existing data) before tracking natural vs added sugar (which would need a million data entries to be updated, with information that doesn't appear on nutrition labels)
In that this is simple subtraction, I don't see the point.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »crispsandwich wrote: »How the body metabolizes the sugar in fruit and milk differs from how it metabolizes the refined sugar added to processed foods. The body breaks down refined sugar rapidly, causing insulin and blood sugar levels to skyrocket.
No. You are positing this as a difference between sugars, and it's not. The body will metabolize the sugar from fruit juice (i.e., fruit sugar) probably faster than the sugar from the typical sweet baked good or the like, as that will at least contain some fat and possibly a little fiber.
Yes, you do break down fruit slower (to some extent, depending on you and on the type of fruit) than other foods without fiber, but that's because the foods themselves are different and the sugar is (of course) not eaten in isolated fashion, NOT because of some difference between sugar in a beet (when you eat a beet) and sugar from a sugarbeet that has been extracted and added to some other sort of food. And, again, if the food the sugar is added to has fiber (as with my rhubarb or oatmeal example), it will be metabolized more slowly, just like when eating fruit.
I really wish people would actually address this point.
I don't know anything about how lactose is metabolized, but I would expect it to be quite quickly, as there isn't any fiber, and that is, in fact, my personal experience which is why yogurt works well for me as a pre-run snack (just as a banana does).
The whole thing about blood sugar levels skyrocketing seems to assume some problem with this that people who don't have insulin issues likely do not have. I don't really care if something is bad for someone with IR, as I don't have it, and thus that should not be assumed when giving nutrition advice.Because refined sugar is digested quickly, you don’t feel full after you’re done eating, no matter how many calories you consumed. The fiber in fruit slows down metabolism, as fruit in the gut expands to make you feel full.
Again, this has nothing to do with the types of sugars being different -- fruit sugar is not filling either, oatmeal or rhubarb with a bit of sugar don't become magically non-filling. I never eat sugar alone, so saying it's not filling seems rather senseless to me. Okay, don't try to fill up by (ick) eating sugar or by drinking soda or juice or whatever.
Also, what's filling differs from person to person.But there’s a caveat, Baker says. Once the sugar passes through the stomach and reaches the small intestine, it doesn’t matter if it came from an apple or a soft drink.
“How much sugar is already in your blood will determine how the body uses the sugar,” Baker says. “If you already have a lot of sugar in your system, then what you just digested will form either fat or glycogen, the storage form of glucose that’s used for quick energy. It doesn’t matter if it’s junk food or fruit.”
I'd add that whether you have "a lot of sugar in your system" (i.e., your glycogen storage is full) depends not on the percentage of sugar you eat but on whether you are eating at a deficit or not, and that we are constantly using and adding fat so what matters is the net result. The idea that you can trick your system into not gaining weight/fat if you cut back on sugar but continue eating a surplus of calories is, of course, false.
Lactose gets cleaved into glucose and galactose by lactase created by microvilli in the intestines. There are pathways that are pretty rapid at converting the galactose into glucose.
Thanks!0 -
^^^This...Random832A wrote: »I think there are related issues being conflated here. The reason it's good to avoid refined sugar is because it's easy to end up eating too much sugar if you eat foods that contain it. But many of the negative effects from too much sugar will still exist with natural sugar (e.g. if you drank a lot of fruit juice, esp. clear fruit juice, in a day), and a lot of processed foods contain extra sugar that the natural equivalent simply wouldn't have (it's a favorite trick of food manufacturers to put in lots of unnecessary sugar and salt, which offset each other's taste but trigger subconscious cravings)
Basically, added sugar is an issue because it makes it easy to consume too much sugar compared to other nutrients (and other calorie sources such as protein), not because a gram of sugar from one source is worse than a gram from another source.
Really I'd like to see MFP add the ability to track net carbs (which can be done with existing data) before tracking natural vs added sugar (which would need a million data entries to be updated, with information that doesn't appear on nutrition labels)
it is also easy to overeat on foods that are high in fats, which was my problem when I was overweight. I almost never over ate sugar things, but put some mozzarella sticks in front of me, or buffalo wings, and watch me to go to town...
Again, the problem is excess calories not added sugar, natural sugar, refined sugar, etc, which, consequently, are all the same....
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