Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
What is clean eating?
Options
Replies
-
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »ClosetBayesian wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »*sigh*. About salt. Refining does not necessarily involve a "chemical" purification process. Salt crystals are formed from a brine inside a steel tank with heating tubes in it. Heat. That's it.
Do you think that clear distilled water has been produced chemically? How about pure white salt crystals? Do you know what pure means?
http://www.siftocanada.com/en/about-us/salt-canada/siftos-goderich-mine/
I think table salt is likely what is used on Fritos and I think that is a fairly highly processed product, usually with iodine added and often with an anti-caking agent added. Therefore I do not believe it to be a clean food.
Your body does not produce iodine on its own, though, and iodine is necessary for the body to produce certain thyroid hormones. So, while adding it may make it less "clean", it also helps prevent iodine deficiency. And again, see the comparison to the Himalayan sea salt. While table salt may be processed, the arguably "cleaner" Himalayan sea salt apparently has a lot of stuff in it that I'd rather not eat.
Huh, interesting paradox: by your logic, removing impurities from something (cleaning it) makes it less "clean".
Only a paradox if you insist that cleaner = better.
No, the paradox is that by cleaning something, it is less clean.0 -
As further evidence that "clean" is largely a marketing term, I got a long and hilarious email from a nearby farm about their "clean" cottage cheese.0
-
Why I can't wrap my head around MFP's "clean eating" definition.
When I was a nutjob about health and fitness I considered these foods "clean":
Whole wheat Triscuits
Skim Milk (non-organic)
Conventionally grown produce
yogurt sweetened with aspartame/sucralose
Canned vegetables (no salt added)
Peanut butter with the small amount of hydrogenated oils added
Jelly sweetened just with grape juice
Popcorn, even with a little butter/coconut oil
Lean cuts of feed lot beef.
0 -
It's a marketing buzzword from the "Wellness" industry (in which I used to work), like Healthy. As in, "That looks like a really HEALTHY lunch!" just because I'm eating my greens. That may sound cynical but I've seen a lot of this stuff come and go over the last three decades and the idea that there are too many ingredients on a list or that there are words on it you can't pronounce makes it bad isn't necessarily true.0
-
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I haven't seen many people in that camp who define processed to include things like cottage cheese though, but maybe I just haven't been around MFP long enough. In a similar way to them meaning more nutrient-dense by "clean" they most often seem to mean "more calorie-dense" when they say "processed." For example, that guy who included the homemade rhubarb pie as junky processed stuff seemed to equate processed foods with calorie-dense foods.
But cottage cheese simply IS processed. I find it annoying that people use words to mean something bizarre (like "processed" = anything I think is unhealthy and therefore protein powder is not processed).
However, I agree we are going around in circles on this.
I agree with this.
But I also find it annoying when people try to say things such as picking a vegetable or shelling an almond = processed food. Yes, yes, those are technically "processes" but I don't believe for one second anyone really believes that's what anyone means by the term "processed foods".
Indeed, what people mean when they say "processed foods" is "processed foods I don't approve of".
Yeah? Because I think Fritos are a processed food you assume I don't approve of Fritos? I guess again I'm the weirdo in the group because I think Fritos are not clean, are a processed food and would even call them junk food but I still enjoy eating them.
If I genuinely considered a food "not clean," I would avoid eating it. But yes, my issue is with those who say "cut out unclean foods" or "NO processed foods" or the like. Since you acknowledge that just being processed doesn't make a food bad (or something to be always avoided or impossible to include in a healthful diet) and that your meaning of "clean" is distinct from "processed," you strike me as quite different from the usual MFP "clean eater" and I probably wouldn't bother arguing about "clean foods" if the usual person using it shared your views. (I'd still not care for the term for the reasons I've explained, and I don't agree with your own definitions of "natural" vs. not, but it wouldn't bug me the way it does.)
I think one of my main issues is the assumption that any level of processing makes a food worse and that "processing" in general is bad. (Also, the idea that "junk food" can't be included in a healthful diet by anyone -- so the fact I like ice cream makes my diet unclean and unhealthful, no matter what else I eat.)
I believe more than you imagine might share my definition of the word. I think it is the usage of the word processing that gets many hung up. Trying to apply any level of processing when it's usually not what was meant. A good number of the arguments I see are about what constitutes a "processed food" rather than what constitutes a "clean food". My definition would include processing because the more a food is processed the further it is likely to be from it's natural state.
Take the 3 ingredient Frito for example. It's highly processed. The corn must be shucked, removed from the cob and ground. The oil must be removed through a process and likely via a chemical process because the odds that Frito Lay is using naturally pressed oil are pretty slim. The salt is also obtained via a chemical process. All this processing is what makes it junk food and keeps it from being clean.
In the past when I've made statements like "shucking corn is processing," I think you've called me obtuse. But here it's on a list as part of what makes a Frito junk.
This is part of why I feel "processing" is such a meaningless way to determine whether a food is a nutritious choice. There is obviously all types of processing. Some processing impacts the food in significant ways. Other processing impacts it almost not at all (running a head of broccoli through a blending, shucking an ear of corn, chopping and freezing a berry).
So why do we continue to use "processing" like it's a meaningful term instead of looking at the food itself? Why are "clean" and "natural" significant terms if they don't communicate anything of value?
Why wouldn't they have value? Many words don't signify something as being better or worse but I wouldn't equate to them having no value as descriptors.
I think eating clean foods is a good thing and is likely to make for a better diet. That doesn't mean I think the clean or natural version is better 100% of the time.
I just think for the "clean" label to be useful, it should identify the better choice. If it doesn't, why not describe the actual criteria we're using in making the choice instead of the much less useful category of "clean"?0 -
DancingDarl wrote: »californiagirl2012 wrote: »It's about the silliest word ever for food. We all know what healthy is. Just do it.
"Healthy" is no less a vague, subjective term. There are people who believe that "healthy" means eating nothing but plant-based foods. There are others who believe that "healthy" is coffee with a huge dollop of butter in it for breakfast and a diet consisting of 80-90% fat. Some seem to believe that if you even go near anything with HFCS, GMO or sugar, you'll immediately bloat up with huge tumors. There's just as much woo and derp about "healthy" as there is about "clean". The thing they have in common is that context and dosage are usually not taken into consideration.
Proof is in the pudding then isn't it. If you are healthy people can see it and tell the difference. It is harder to spot in profile pictures online as everyone on here seems to be quite private...which is fair enough.
No, unfortunately you can't tell if a person is healthy by looking at them. Even a doctor can't do that. This is why they run medical tests.0 -
DancingDarl wrote: »There was a Facebook thing going round here with Ash Bines- clean eating plan. Not particularly useful as everyone knows vegetables and fruit legumes nuts are good for you. I honestly think the health and fitness industry enjoys making it confusing and seem more complicated than it actually is.
Balanced eating would be a better slogan or catch phrase. Or even moderated.
Re: the bolded section. I'm guessing you aren't familiar with the Paleo Diet?0 -
Never go A2M0
-
What bugs me the most is the "No chemicals" thing.
Chemistry is LITERALLY the study of all matter. It has a well defined and specific definition. Everything on the planet is matter. A human is matter. EVERYTHING IS A CHEMICAL OR MIX OF CHEMICALS!! UUUUGGGHH. LOL.
Anyone who says no chemicals better stop breathing and drinking then. And also stop existing. It's the only way to not have or be chemicals.
Me too.0 -
She did make a point.0
-
DancingDarl wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »There was a Facebook thing going round here with Ash Bines- clean eating plan. Not particularly useful as everyone knows vegetables and fruit legumes nuts are good for you. I honestly think the health and fitness industry enjoys making it confusing and seem more complicated than it actually is.
Balanced eating would be a better slogan or catch phrase. Or even moderated.
Re: the bolded section. I'm guessing you aren't familiar with the Paleo Diet?
Please insert or make a point.
Paleo Diet purports that legumes are unhealthy.
0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »There was a Facebook thing going round here with Ash Bines- clean eating plan. Not particularly useful as everyone knows vegetables and fruit legumes nuts are good for you. I honestly think the health and fitness industry enjoys making it confusing and seem more complicated than it actually is.
Balanced eating would be a better slogan or catch phrase. Or even moderated.
Re: the bolded section. I'm guessing you aren't familiar with the Paleo Diet?
Please insert or make a point.
Paleo Diet purports that legumes are unhealthy.
Yes, exactly. This is why debating the meaning of clean eating can go on for 26 pages while still going around in circles. Not everyone does "know" that vegetables, fruit, legumes and nuts are good for you. Some believe legumes are, in fact, not good for you (Paleo) - hence the crazy-looking Venn diagram that was created and posted earlier to encompass all the varied definitions of clean eating.
Completely unrelated - I ended up at Panera for lunch today and couldn't help but snicker at all their clean eating signs. Honestly, I feel no more healthy now that they have gone "clean" than I did when I ate there before all this marketing nonsense took over. My bread, soup and salad tasted exactly the same, and I still feel just as sleepy after eating all of it.
0 -
DancingDarl wrote: »That I do not know what Paleo is when I clearly do. Insinuations are not the best points to make.
Starchy vegetables are also not allowed on Paleo.0 -
DancingDarl wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »There was a Facebook thing going round here with Ash Bines- clean eating plan. Not particularly useful as everyone knows vegetables and fruit legumes nuts are good for you. I honestly think the health and fitness industry enjoys making it confusing and seem more complicated than it actually is.
Balanced eating would be a better slogan or catch phrase. Or even moderated.
Re: the bolded section. I'm guessing you aren't familiar with the Paleo Diet?
Please insert or make a point.
Paleo Diet purports that legumes are unhealthy.
And why do I care about Paleo?
Let me make it clear..I do not
You said "everyone knows . . . legumes . . . are good for you."
The point of bringing up Paleo is that everyone *doesn't* know that. Some people think they are bad for you.
That you don't care what they think doesn't change the fact that they think it. So it isn't accurate to say everyone knows legumes are good for you.0 -
DancingDarl wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »There was a Facebook thing going round here with Ash Bines- clean eating plan. Not particularly useful as everyone knows vegetables and fruit legumes nuts are good for you. I honestly think the health and fitness industry enjoys making it confusing and seem more complicated than it actually is.
Balanced eating would be a better slogan or catch phrase. Or even moderated.
Re: the bolded section. I'm guessing you aren't familiar with the Paleo Diet?
Please insert or make a point.
Paleo Diet purports that legumes are unhealthy.
And why do I care about Paleo?
Let me make it clear..I do not
1 -
We've also seen a contingent of people who believe or question whether or not fruit is good for us. "Everyone knows" never seems to work around here. As we figured a few pages back, vegetables (and we might need to specify non-starchy veggies) seems to be the only thing universally agreed to be healthy. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's a WOE out there that disagrees on even that.1
-
You said "everyone knows legumes are healthy".DancingDarl wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »There was a Facebook thing going round here with Ash Bines- clean eating plan. Not particularly useful as everyone knows vegetables and fruit legumes nuts are good for you. I honestly think the health and fitness industry enjoys making it confusing and seem more complicated than it actually is.
Balanced eating would be a better slogan or catch phrase. Or even moderated.
Re: the bolded section. I'm guessing you aren't familiar with the Paleo Diet?
Please insert or make a point.
Paleo Diet purports that legumes are unhealthy.
And why do I care about Paleo?
Let me make it clear..I do not
She was pointing out that paleos do not, therefore, not everybody...
Got it?0 -
?!!?!?!DancingDarl wrote: »Honestly Clean eating is getting so convoluted why can't people stop breaking into the hype of all these dad diets and realize that it is good if you were going to want to eat like that already. But generally you do not need to conform to rules to lose weight.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »We've also seen a contingent of people who believe or question whether or not fruit is good for us. "Everyone knows" never seems to work around here. As we figured a few pages back, vegetables (and we might need to specify non-starchy veggies) seems to be the only thing universally agreed to be healthy. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's a WOE out there that disagrees on even that.
I've heard that sentiment from a few of the more vocal low carbers here.0 -
DancingDarl wrote: »Honestly Clean eating is getting so convoluted why can't people stop breaking into the hype of all these dad diets
Dad diets are so lame. Tell silly jokes and jog to Wilco.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.9K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 397 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.3K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 975 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions