I really don't understand now?
David___D
Posts: 76 Member
So since January I have made a conscious effort to drop 10 kilos to get to my hopefully ideal weight of 73kgs. I have been on this site for many years now, and always trusted the advice from fellow MFPs.
I have always understood and been told many times that if you are in deficit then it will happen, well I am at my wits end, since January, I have eaten over my 1800 daily allowance only 3 times (net calories). I train regularly, and even my penchant for alcohol has been dropped, not drunk any at all for 5 weeks.
Yet today I stepped on the scales and have actually put weight back on, after losing a few weeks 1.5kgs a few weeks ago.
My diary both food and exercise is open, and hand on heart everything that I have eaten or drunk with calories is in there even to the point of a few jellies.
So for the final time, please any advice will be taken on what on earth is going on?
By the way, age 48, currently 81.6kgs (171lbs) at a height of 1.71(5'7")
I have always understood and been told many times that if you are in deficit then it will happen, well I am at my wits end, since January, I have eaten over my 1800 daily allowance only 3 times (net calories). I train regularly, and even my penchant for alcohol has been dropped, not drunk any at all for 5 weeks.
Yet today I stepped on the scales and have actually put weight back on, after losing a few weeks 1.5kgs a few weeks ago.
My diary both food and exercise is open, and hand on heart everything that I have eaten or drunk with calories is in there even to the point of a few jellies.
So for the final time, please any advice will be taken on what on earth is going on?
By the way, age 48, currently 81.6kgs (171lbs) at a height of 1.71(5'7")
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Replies
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Are you taking your measurements? Could you have added muscle mass?
Also, your diary is not open.0 -
Nope, not open
Do you use a food scale?0 -
Start weighing yourself more often? I weigh daily so changes won't shock me.
Your diary is closed. Mine is open.
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Same boat as you, though I've eaten over my 1800 calories many times, though usually up to or below maintenance. Lost weight initially, which was probably water, and have slowly gained it back. Thinking I may have to lower the calorie deficit even more.0
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Weight loss isn't linear- it can go up or down a little here and there. You don't say how often you're weighing, but a couple things you might check: Are you using the same scale in the same location? Are you weighing at the same time of day? ( I go up a pound or two throughout the day as I eat, drink water, etc.)
As someone else mentioned- Take your measurements as well as weighing. Scales mean well, but they see EVERYTHING and can't help but tell you all about that extra bit of poo in your bowels, the extra water in your recovering muscles, the lint in your belly button... They just see stuff and blurt it out like you crazy great aunt at Christmas Dinner. The measuring tape sees things a little differently and can be a little kinder in pointing out that you've lost a quarter inch here and there.0 -
Weight loss isn't a linear process. What was your gain? I'm in a cut right now and I had a gain on the scale of 1.5kg from yesterday to today...I can assure you I didn't eat 10,500 calories over my maintenance...From Tuesday to Wednesday I had a loss of 2.3 Kg...so over the last two days my net loss is .8 kg...which is still not accurate because I know there's no way I could have actually lost .8 kg of fat in two days....
It isn't a linear process. Who knows...maybe you have a bit more waste in your system today than when you last weighed in...perhaps you are retaining more water...it's just not a linear process.0 -
You might be eating more than you think or overestimating exercise calories.0
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How often do you weigh yourself?0
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No. You should not be gaining muscle in a deficit.michelle172415 wrote: »Are you taking your measurements? Could you have added muscle mass?
Also, your diary is not open.
Op how long has it been since you lost? If it has been longer than a month, you are eating more than you think. Do you weigh all of you food via food scale?0 -
No. You should not be gaining muscle in a deficit.michelle172415 wrote: »Are you taking your measurements? Could you have added muscle mass?
Also, your diary is not open.
I would check that. They take people into fitness training platoons in the Army, reduce their caloric load and work their butts off three times a day. Downtime is being active (lots of barracks and yard cleaning) I should know, I was one of them. I went in being able to do 5 push ups and left 30 days later being able to do 25 push ups AND dropped 10 lbs of fat (they measure, big time). I then went in to and breezed basic training/AIT. They have been doing it for decades. So yes, you can gain muscle/lose fat in a deficit.0 -
OP,
I have the same data as yours, age, lbs, height. I've been going by the cal numbers that CalorieKing gave me, before I knew MFP. It's 1500-1700 to lose 1-2 lbs/weeks, set at Light life style. But I play tennis like crazy!, eat 1350 most of the time, rarely come to 1500, but losing only about 1 lb/week lately.
Some people here chide CalorieKing for giving too low cal number. I think your 1800 is too high. The proof is in the pudding. Reexamine your number.
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aussiedicko wrote: »Yet today I stepped on the scales and have actually put weight back on, after losing a few weeks 1.5kgs a few weeks ago.
So you have lost weight? And it was only a few weeks ago? So since January, how much total weight are you up/down by?0 -
tryin2die2self wrote: »
No. You should not be gaining muscle in a deficit.michelle172415 wrote: »Are you taking your measurements? Could you have added muscle mass?
Also, your diary is not open.
I would check that. They take people into fitness training platoons in the Army, reduce their caloric load and work their butts off three times a day. Downtime is being active (lots of barracks and yard cleaning) I should know, I was one of them. I went in being able to do 5 push ups and left 30 days later being able to do 25 push ups AND dropped 10 lbs of fat (they measure, big time). I then went in to and breezed basic training/AIT. They have been doing it for decades. So yes, you can gain muscle/lose fat in a deficit.
The average person will not lose fat and gain muscle in a deficit. This poster is not training in the army. And also, you can gain strength without actually adding mass.0 -
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I_Will_End_You wrote: »tryin2die2self wrote: »
No. You should not be gaining muscle in a deficit.michelle172415 wrote: »Are you taking your measurements? Could you have added muscle mass?
Also, your diary is not open.
I would check that. They take people into fitness training platoons in the Army, reduce their caloric load and work their butts off three times a day. Downtime is being active (lots of barracks and yard cleaning) I should know, I was one of them. I went in being able to do 5 push ups and left 30 days later being able to do 25 push ups AND dropped 10 lbs of fat (they measure, big time). I then went in to and breezed basic training/AIT. They have been doing it for decades. So yes, you can gain muscle/lose fat in a deficit.
The average person will not lose fat and gain muscle in a deficit. This poster is not training in the army. And also, you can gain strength without actually adding mass.
I think it has everything to do with the intensity of the training and the drive of the person to prevail. About 50% of the people washed out of the FIT program. I think the attrition in Basic was 15%, AIT was about 10%. Every case I saw that failed simply gave up. Under the pressure of it being to hard, not enough food, or whatever.. they gave up. The army did not give anything to the people who succeeded, it just honed what they had. Like tempering a blade.
I don't see that as being any different than the array of gym rats, weight jockeys, cardio fiends and their ilk. It is all about the dedication and the drive. Not sure if average has anything to do it. Then again, maybe it does. Not my call to make.
And you are right, you can gain strength without adding mass.... but you can add mass.0 -
Sorry diary open now, and to answer a few questions:
I weigh most things, but not everything.
I weigh myself probably every week or so, same place, and it has body fat % that fluctuates enormously.
Weight loss since January 01 is actually 1.8kgs (3.9lbs)
A few years ago I lost weight and went from 96kg to 75kg in what seemed like just 6 months, and I have floated around this weight since.
Very frustrating.
Thanks for all the comments.0 -
Yep, so weigh it all for the next several weeks. If you still see no changes in measurements or scale weight then you'll need to think about cutting calories from your intake or burning a few more. I always vote for a change up of foods or exercise too, when things slow down. I personally believe our bodies get complacent when we don't switch things up once in a while.0
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Your numbers are round. Food scale0
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All exercise is measured from a polar heart rate monitor, which actually rounds down what fitbit says.
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tryin2die2self wrote: »
No. You should not be gaining muscle in a deficit.michelle172415 wrote: »Are you taking your measurements? Could you have added muscle mass?
Also, your diary is not open.
I would check that. They take people into fitness training platoons in the Army, reduce their caloric load and work their butts off three times a day. Downtime is being active (lots of barracks and yard cleaning) I should know, I was one of them. I went in being able to do 5 push ups and left 30 days later being able to do 25 push ups AND dropped 10 lbs of fat (they measure, big time). I then went in to and breezed basic training/AIT. They have been doing it for decades. So yes, you can gain muscle/lose fat in a deficit.
Going from 5 to 25 push ups doesn't sound like you were gaining muscle to me. Not that I am belittling the improvement- it is significant. But, it is most likely that the improvement was neuromuscular adaptation to the exercise.
With continued calorific deficit and training that performance improvement would level out and stall until you were in a position to grow more muscle (calorific surplus with continued muscle stimulation).0 -
@aussiedicko I trawled through your diary, sure that I would find some error.
I worked out how many calories you need to cover your daily activities AND your weekly exercise. For you (based on exercise 3-5 times a week) this comes to 2487 to maintain - 1987 to lose 1lb per week.
Over the last month you've averaged 1723 cals per day so in theory you should be on your way to a regular loss. Your logging looks good. I'm afraid I can't comment on fitbits and HRMs because I have virtually zero experience of them.
Assuming that you have the big picture stuff nailed down such as correct activity and food logging (and it looks like you have) I can only offer some pointers in the areas that are usually insignificant. So consider:
Cortisol - Are you getting sufficient sleep? Are you stressed at work or home? Are you giving yourself sufficient rest between exercise sets.
Hydration - Do you get thirsty? are you drinking enough?
Other than that, I'm stumped.0 -
I ran his stats two way: 1) sedentary/deskjob
Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) = 1654
Daily calories to maintain weight (TDEE) 1984
Daily calories based 20% = 1587
Daily Calories based on 15% = 1687
2) Lighty active exercise 1 - 3 times per week
Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) = 1654
Daily calories to maintain weight (TDEE) 2274
Daily calories based 20% = 1819
Daily Calories based on 15% = 1919
And all though the average estimates at 1713 per day as stealthealth pointed out, these calories are not being eaten in aa consistent way. You may eat 1713 on day, but the next you are 1980, 2000, etc.. So I am going to assume that you are eating back some of your exercise calories. However of the Ftibit adjustments in your exercise diary it looks like step data is coming across as your exercise each day except a few. Of the 300 calorie adjustments how many of these calories are your "steady state cardio based calorie burns" and "how many of these are you eating back you considered weight lifting calories burned" and how many are just calories Fibit gives you for step data"?
With all the information you have been provided and the analysis other have commented on, I think you need to set a Set number of calories to eat per day, and eat those exact calories. So MFP gives you 1800 calories a day eat those calories every day and do this consistently for several weeks. I would not integrate cheat meals or days on the weekends until you get the scale moving.
If you are lapsing on your calories listed in your diary (i.e. some are not weighed, some food you ate is not the diary at all such oil you cook with, pads of butter, condiments, calorie laden beverages, dressing or dips, etc... ) then these calories can be creepy crawaly calories keeping you out of a consistent deficit.
I think consisteanncy is keey until you find the right balance. Trial and error and if you any data from weight loss before you may want to take a look at where you are today in comparation to how you lost weight before. Is there any family work stress, somethin new going on in your life etc..Are you taking any medication etc..
Just start it, do it for a few weeks and adjust it up or down and be careful of the Ftibit calories you decide to eat back during your process.
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Initially I assumed that he was eating back exercise cals and that was where we would find the issue. But, he's not.
MFP allocates him 1837 and he is usually (and on average) under that. But I think your comments are spot on ....With all the information you have been provided and the analysis other have commented on, I think you need to set a Set number of calories to eat per day, and eat those exact calories. So MFP gives you 1800 calories a day eat those calories every day and do this consistently for several weeks. I would not integrate cheat meals or days on the weekends until you get the scale moving.
If you are lapsing on your calories listed in your diary (i.e. some are not weighed, some food you ate is not the diary at all such oil you cook with, pads of butter, condiments, calorie laden beverages, dressing or dips, etc... ) then these calories can be creepy crawaly calories keeping you out of a consistent deficit.
I think consisteanncy is keey until you find the right balance. Trial and error and if you any data from weight loss before you may want to take a look at where you are today in comparation to how you lost weight before. Is there any family work stress, somethin new going on in your life etc..Are you taking any medication etc..
Just start it, do it for a few weeks and adjust it up or down and be careful of the Ftibit calories you decide to eat back during your process.
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aussiedicko wrote: »Sorry diary open now, and to answer a few questions:
I weigh most things, but not everything.
I weigh myself probably every week or so, same place, and it has body fat % that fluctuates enormously.
Weight loss since January 01 is actually 1.8kgs (3.9lbs)
A few years ago I lost weight and went from 96kg to 75kg in what seemed like just 6 months, and I have floated around this weight since.
Very frustrating.
Thanks for all the comments.
You're losing weight, just not at the rate you want.
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You're not losing weight because you're taking in too many calories for what you're expending. (CICO). You're probably overestimating your exercise calories, on top of perhaps not correctly measuring your intake.
If I were you, I would not eat back any exercise calories at all, and instead I would stick to 1700 or 1600 or whatever calories per day total. And consider exercise a bonus. It all averages out when you look at it weeks and months at a time.
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xKoalaBearx wrote: »You're not losing weight because you're taking in too many calories for what you're expending. (CICO). You're probably overestimating your exercise calories, on top of perhaps not correctly measuring your intake.
If I were you, I would not eat back any exercise calories at all, and instead I would stick to 1700 or 1600 or whatever calories per day total. And consider exercise a bonus. It all averages out when you look at it weeks and months at a time.
if you read the thread you'll see that he is not eating back exercise calories.0 -
StealthHealth wrote: »xKoalaBearx wrote: »You're not losing weight because you're taking in too many calories for what you're expending. (CICO). You're probably overestimating your exercise calories, on top of perhaps not correctly measuring your intake.
If I were you, I would not eat back any exercise calories at all, and instead I would stick to 1700 or 1600 or whatever calories per day total. And consider exercise a bonus. It all averages out when you look at it weeks and months at a time.
if you read the thread you'll see that he is not eating back exercise calories.
He wrote "net calories" and I interpreted that as calories after exercise.0 -
tryin2die2self wrote: »
No. You should not be gaining muscle in a deficit.michelle172415 wrote: »Are you taking your measurements? Could you have added muscle mass?
Also, your diary is not open.
I would check that. They take people into fitness training platoons in the Army, reduce their caloric load and work their butts off three times a day. Downtime is being active (lots of barracks and yard cleaning) I should know, I was one of them. I went in being able to do 5 push ups and left 30 days later being able to do 25 push ups AND dropped 10 lbs of fat (they measure, big time). I then went in to and breezed basic training/AIT. They have been doing it for decades. So yes, you can gain muscle/lose fat in a deficit.StealthHealth wrote: »Going from 5 to 25 push ups doesn't sound like you were gaining muscle to me. Not that I am belittling the improvement- it is significant. But, it is most likely that the improvement was neuromuscular adaptation to the exercise.
With continued calorific deficit and training that performance improvement would level out and stall until you were in a position to grow more muscle (calorific surplus with continued muscle stimulation).
Bears repeating. People often confuse muscle mass gains with strength gains. The two do not necessarily always correlate.
Though, when you are a MALE at about aged 18 you are best adapted to be the only special snowflake that could lose fat and gain muscle assuming you are getting enough protein and working your a-- off. Why? Mighty mighty testosterone. Women and older men don't have the same advantage that a young guy does.0
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