Squats-flat or raised heels?

rabbitjb wrote: »

sunnybeaches105 wrote: »

Packerjohn wrote: »

KiyaK wrote: »

No one's flexibility is natural. They get it by repeatedly moving through a greater range of motion. Don't like your flexibility range? Practice pressing on the edges of it (i.e. stretching, yoga, etc.) On a regular basis. It will change.

This in incorrect. Flexibility is natural. We lose it as we go about life (sitting for 8-12 hours a day, etc). Virtually any normal child can do what is pictured below.





And it doesn't necessarily go away as we age, goes away due to lifestyle:



We have to work to get it back. This article provides a nice discussion:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/third-world-squat

One of the things that is so frustrating about all of this is the the conflicting information. In contrast to that article on the same website, is this one (I also posted it above) that is much more recent.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/real-science-of-squat-depth

Apologies for the block 'o text, but here's a relevant quote:

"Third World Squat vs. Strength-Training Squat
Many who assert the ideology of using a baby's squat to represent the ideal squat pattern are quick to point to the "third world squat" often performed in other countries, particularly throughout Asia. In a third world squat, the individual simply relaxes into the deepest squat position where the butt is nearly touching the floor. Because this is almost identical to what babies do, it's assumed that society and technology are responsible for ruining people's squat mechanics. Now here's where things get interesting.

The third-world squat should in fact be a position that most humans are capable of performing. And yes, various faults in our society have contributed to the elimination of this ability in many adults.

Here's the catch: The third-world squat and a strength-training squat are two entirely different movements requiring completely different recruitment patterns. In fact, the third-world squat is a passive squat where little if any muscle activation is evident as the individual simply hangs out on their joints, tendons, ligaments, and connective tissue.

In contrast, a strength-training squat is an active squat. In this case, the lifter should be firing his muscles aggressively in order to maintain stability, motor control, force, and muscle stiffness, all of which are essential for taking strain off the joints and using the muscles as shock absorbers. When a passive squat is incorporated into strength training scenarios with heavy loads, the muscles are in an overly relaxed state, particularly during the eccentric motion, thereby stressing the joints and connective tissue rather than the muscles."

This rings true to me. The squat seen throughout Asia is used as a position to relax, socialise, and rest. It's not loaded. For a Western desk jockey like myself, I can get down there (and do it regularly due to a few articles from Bret Contras), but it's anything but relaxed . . . and my back rounds.

But surely one is about flexibility and range of motion and the other is about power

so for a western desk jockey, practice in 3rd world squats makes if not perfect then easier

and I have to say since starting working on holding this position and introducing goblet squats my ease in the range of motion on backloaded squats has definitely improved

KiyaK wrote: »

Sounds like you need to work on flexibility. Doing squats w raised heels is a bad idea, as a big component of squat technique is keeping your weight in your heels. Otherwise you're putting too much strain on your knees.
There's not much point in doing an exercise with improper form, as it won't work the muscles you want to work & it could eventually lead to serious injury.

zyxst wrote: »

poteatkd wrote: »

Bookmarking this thread...a lot of good info here to research on.

I'm currently having trouble with flat heeled squats as well.

For close to 20 years, I played baseball and softball and the majority of those years I was a catcher.

As a catcher, while I squatted in position, I was primarily squatting on my toes for improved reaction time during play.

I have a really hard time staying flat footed and feel I am failing with squats. I don't want to fail!

Any suggestions, links, etc are greatly appreciated.

Good thread.

I have the same problem, minus the catcher bit. Squatting to squat, I'm fine. Squatting like lifters, face plant or continuous teetering. I've been told to squat through my heels, don't lean forward, and go A2G. Since I can't squat like a lifter and it feels super unnatural, I don't bother squatting.