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Dr Sarah Hallburg: Calories in vs calories out pet peeve

Expatmommy79Expatmommy79 Posts: 941Member, Premium Member Posts: 941Member, Premium Member
I have started watching a few of Dr Sarah Hallburgs LCHF videos.

As far as LCHF goes in regards to controlling diabetes type 2, and insulin resistance, I understand the metabolic advantages as it relates to controlling blood glucose.

What I don't understand is her saying that Insulin resistance makes us fat and that it's a pet peeve of hers when she hears calories in vs calories out. She says CI vs CO is another way to call people gluttons and sloths.

My question is this: if you eat at or below maintenance and are insulin resistant, how do you still get fat?

My issue with her is as follows:

She says insulin resistance (70% of Americans she says) and a high carb diet forces the body to convert carbs into fat. And the spikes cause hunger which cause you to eat more... So is that not just another way to say you are taking in too many calories? She isn't specific if the same happens when eating at a deficit.

She also says your macro breakdown should be 70-80% fat and 20-50g of carbs...but she doesn't want people to count calories. In order to track those two macros, isn't that another way to count calories?

For women, she says we should have about 80g of protein, making up 15% of our diet. And 70%-80% fat and 20-35g carbs. Which is about 1600 calories. So how is her formula not calorie counting?!

She says if you follow the macro ratios you will loose weight. But purposefully glosses over actual calories and energy output.

My question for discussion is this: in her logic, is she trying to say, regardless of the deficit, people with IR will put on weight with a higher carb diet?

And to another point, the essential fatty acids and essential amino acids arguments made by LCHF followers... She says the same thing, that there is no "essential" carb because the body can make its own glucose. But if the body can make its own glucose, doesn't that just prove how essential it is that we have created a mechanism for creating glucose ourselves in the absence of any new raw material?

What is the real truth about weight gain and insulin resistance?

I was pcos/IR. My dr told me if I lost 10% of my body weight it would reverse. He was right. I did it with calorie counting and a balanced diet. Am I a special snowflake?
edited March 2016
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Replies

  • seska422seska422 Posts: 3,203Member, Premium Member Posts: 3,203Member, Premium Member
    It sounds like you can see through the smoke and mirrors that she's trying to use.

    She's playing into the currently popular LCHF model in order to earn a portion of the huge diet industry money pie.
  • zyxstzyxst Posts: 9,146Member Member Posts: 9,146Member Member

    My question for discussion is this: in her logic, is she trying to say, regardless of the deficit, people with IR will put on weight with a higher carb diet?
    Yes, that's her logic. And it's the logic of many, many people with IR.
  • stevencloserstevencloser Posts: 8,917Member Member Posts: 8,917Member Member
    My question is this: if you eat at or below maintenance and are insulin resistant, how do you still get fat?

    You don't.
  • Christine_72Christine_72 Posts: 16,074Member Member Posts: 16,074Member Member
    zyxst wrote: »

    My question for discussion is this: in her logic, is she trying to say, regardless of the deficit, people with IR will put on weight with a higher carb diet?
    Yes, that's her logic. And it's the logic of many, many people with IR.

    Yes, yes it is.
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    I have started watching a few of Dr Sarah Hallburgs LCHF videos.

    As far as LCHF goes in regards to controlling diabetes type 2, and insulin resistance, I understand the metabolic advantages as it relates to controlling blood glucose.

    What I don't understand is her saying that Insulin resistance makes us fat and that it's a pet peeve of hers when she hears calories in vs calories out. She says CI vs CO is another way to call people gluttons and sloths.

    My question is this: if you eat at or below maintenance and are insulin resistant, how do you still get fat?

    My issue with her is as follows:

    She says insulin resistance (70% of Americans she says) and a high carb diet forces the body to convert carbs into fat. And the spikes cause hunger which cause you to eat more... So is that not just another way to say you are taking in too many calories? She isn't specific if the same happens when eating at a deficit.

    She also says your macro breakdown should be 70-80% fat and 20-50g of carbs...but she doesn't want people to count calories. In order to track those two macros, isn't that another way to count calories?

    For women, she says we should have about 80g of protein, making up 15% of our diet. And 70%-80% fat and 20-35g carbs. Which is about 1600 calories. So how is her formula not calorie counting?!

    She says if you follow the macro ratios you will loose weight. But purposefully glosses over actual calories and energy output.

    My question for discussion is this: in her logic, is she trying to say, regardless of the deficit, people with IR will put on weight with a higher carb diet?

    And to another point, the essential fatty acids and essential amino acids arguments made by LCHF followers... She says the same thing, that there is no "essential" carb because the body can make its own glucose. But if the body can make its own glucose, doesn't that just prove how essential it is that we have created a mechanism for creating glucose ourselves in the absence of any new raw material?

    What is the real truth about weight gain and insulin resistance?

    I was pcos/IR. My dr told me if I lost 10% of my body weight it would reverse. He was right. I did it with calorie counting and a balanced diet. Am I a special snowflake?

    That alone (bolded) is a tone trolling appeal to consequences. Whether people use it to call people gluttons and sloths or not does not have anything to do with the truth value of it.

    Various forms of insulin might alter calories out to an extent or another, and might make some macros better for feeling full and energetic until one has it better under control. It does not, however, negate the laws of thermodynamics.

    As far as there being no essential amount of carbs - I've seen insulin hypothesis proponents tout that over and over again. I always ask them why don't you also suggested eating as little saturated fat as possible as there is no proven minimum for that. It seems like their dietary reasoning only applies to carbohydrates, which makes it special pleading.
  • CaptainJoyCaptainJoy Posts: 257Member Member Posts: 257Member Member
    I have started watching a few of Dr Sarah Hallburgs LCHF videos.

    As far as LCHF goes in regards to controlling diabetes type 2, and insulin resistance, I understand the metabolic advantages as it relates to controlling blood glucose.

    What I don't understand is her saying that Insulin resistance makes us fat and that it's a pet peeve of hers when she hears calories in vs calories out. She says CI vs CO is another way to call people gluttons and sloths.

    My question is this: if you eat at or below maintenance and are insulin resistant, how do you still get fat?

    My issue with her is as follows:

    She says insulin resistance (70% of Americans she says) and a high carb diet forces the body to convert carbs into fat. And the spikes cause hunger which cause you to eat more... So is that not just another way to say you are taking in too many calories? She isn't specific if the same happens when eating at a deficit.

    She also says your macro breakdown should be 70-80% fat and 20-50g of carbs...but she doesn't want people to count calories. In order to track those two macros, isn't that another way to count calories?

    For women, she says we should have about 80g of protein, making up 15% of our diet. And 70%-80% fat and 20-35g carbs. Which is about 1600 calories. So how is her formula not calorie counting?!

    She says if you follow the macro ratios you will loose weight. But purposefully glosses over actual calories and energy output.

    My question for discussion is this: in her logic, is she trying to say, regardless of the deficit, people with IR will put on weight with a higher carb diet?

    And to another point, the essential fatty acids and essential amino acids arguments made by LCHF followers... She says the same thing, that there is no "essential" carb because the body can make its own glucose. But if the body can make its own glucose, doesn't that just prove how essential it is that we have created a mechanism for creating glucose ourselves in the absence of any new raw material?

    What is the real truth about weight gain and insulin resistance?

    I was pcos/IR. My dr told me if I lost 10% of my body weight it would reverse. He was right. I did it with calorie counting and a balanced diet. Am I a special snowflake?


    You are a special snowflake because you followed sound advice from your doctor and it worked. I am shocked that a doctor would make such ridiculous claims about the LCHF diet. It may have its merits but I know that weight gain is from eating more calories than you expend aka CICO. Period. If your CI are more than your CO, not only do you gain weight but the liver stores the excess calories and pumps them out as triglycerides. Eating large amounts of saturated fat also messes horribly with your cholesterol. Then your doctor puts you on a statin and your A1C goes up making you prediabetic (not always but it did for me.)

    Losing weight if you are obese, through calorie counting, a balanced diet, and exercise will usually reverse or lessen any health problems like these. It's slow but it's working pretty good for me.
  • JruzerJruzer Posts: 3,320Member Member Posts: 3,320Member Member
    My general rule: Any time a person going by "Dr Something" or "So and so, PhD" is pushing an agenda in a public forum, avoid that person and their advice.
  • nvmomketonvmomketo Posts: 12,031Member Member Posts: 12,031Member Member
    I haven't watched much of her stuff, but what I have seen makes perfect sense for those with insulin resistance: high ( or even moderate) carb intake raises insulin which will eventually lead to IR for many people. Insulin is a fat storing hormone. Those who take insulin know that high levels of insulin will eat to weight gain; this appears to be true even if CI are kept the same. It won't be massive weight gain if calries are not increased but it will be there.

    People with IR have high levels of insulin. Insulin (high evels) leads to weight gain. It makes sense that those with IR gain weight if they eat too any carbs for their health.

    I completely agree that CI must be less than CO in order to lose weight. Where many of us with IR get excited is when CO seems to (seemingly magically) go up so we can lose weight easier. Some may not need to count calories because we can lose at a higher level of caloric consumption.

    And then there is the lowered appetite. Most experience a drop in appetite when they go LCHF. If you aren't hungry, it makes it easer to lose weight by eating less. For those who experience this, carb intake is a main driving force behind appetite. Does our appetite drop becase of lower resultant insulin? I don't know. It is a possibility.

    CICO does not need to be the focus for many with IR on a LCHF diet. If I keep carbs below 20g my appetite drops. If I follow her rule to not eat when not hungry, I lose weight. I naturally eat around 1400-1800 kcal and low a couple of pounds per week. Lately my carbs are higher, closer to 30g and my appetite is up. I am eating way over 2000kcal per day ( no exercise) and I am not gaining a thing... This appears to often hold true for those with IR who keep carbs low - it is harder to gain weight.

    From past experience I know that if I ate a lot of carbs and a 2000+ kcal diet, I would be gaining weight and very hungry every couple of hours.... Perhaps this is what she she means when she says calorie counting is not needed?

    And she is completely right, there are no essential carbs. There are only a few systems that will use glucose for fuel when someone has adjusted to using fat for fuel: red blood cells, portions of the brain and... Oops, I've forgotten (liver?). The rest easily switches to fat. Many organs, like the brain, seem to show a preference for fats (with better functioning) after becoming fat adapted after a few months.

    One theory about why glucose is used so quickly by the body is because high levels of glucose in the blood is toxic nd quite damaging over time. The body makes a large effort to keep glucose levels steady by using it for fuel, the fastest way to "get rid of it".

    OP, you are fortunate that losing 10% of your body weight helped your IR. perhaps you were not too IR or the carbs you cut when reducing calories was enough to have an effect on your health. I was not so lucky.

    I had prediabetes, lost over 20% of my body weight to get to a midrange, normal BMI and it had almost no effect on my IR. As my carbs approach 30g my blood glucose goes up. Her advice is spot on for me. I'll skip most carbs since they do almost nothing beneficial for my health. I would be dumb to eat carbs at moderate or high levels, unless I want my disease to keep progressing.

  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    Eating super low carb makes you IR. There's no way to tell if you are still IR in reality or not unless you eat carbs for a while. But I understand you don't want to eat vegetables.
    edited March 2016
  • 2snakeswoman2snakeswoman Posts: 653Member Member Posts: 653Member Member
    I usually ignore advice from people with something to sell.
  • nvmomketonvmomketo Posts: 12,031Member Member Posts: 12,031Member Member
    I don't think she has anything to sell. I am curious as to what if she does.
  • moe0303moe0303 Posts: 933Member Member Posts: 933Member Member
    I have started watching a few of Dr Sarah Hallburgs LCHF videos.

    As far as LCHF goes in regards to controlling diabetes type 2, and insulin resistance, I understand the metabolic advantages as it relates to controlling blood glucose.

    What I don't understand is her saying that Insulin resistance makes us fat and that it's a pet peeve of hers when she hears calories in vs calories out. She says CI vs CO is another way to call people gluttons and sloths.

    My question is this: if you eat at or below maintenance and are insulin resistant, how do you still get fat?

    My issue with her is as follows:

    She says insulin resistance (70% of Americans she says) and a high carb diet forces the body to convert carbs into fat. And the spikes cause hunger which cause you to eat more... So is that not just another way to say you are taking in too many calories? She isn't specific if the same happens when eating at a deficit.

    She also says your macro breakdown should be 70-80% fat and 20-50g of carbs...but she doesn't want people to count calories. In order to track those two macros, isn't that another way to count calories?

    For women, she says we should have about 80g of protein, making up 15% of our diet. And 70%-80% fat and 20-35g carbs. Which is about 1600 calories. So how is her formula not calorie counting?!

    She says if you follow the macro ratios you will loose weight. But purposefully glosses over actual calories and energy output.

    My question for discussion is this: in her logic, is she trying to say, regardless of the deficit, people with IR will put on weight with a higher carb diet?

    And to another point, the essential fatty acids and essential amino acids arguments made by LCHF followers... She says the same thing, that there is no "essential" carb because the body can make its own glucose. But if the body can make its own glucose, doesn't that just prove how essential it is that we have created a mechanism for creating glucose ourselves in the absence of any new raw material?

    What is the real truth about weight gain and insulin resistance?

    I was pcos/IR. My dr told me if I lost 10% of my body weight it would reverse. He was right. I did it with calorie counting and a balanced diet. Am I a special snowflake?

    I'm just lurking, but regarding the bolded part, I got like 2100-2300 calories, is that wrong?
  • stevencloserstevencloser Posts: 8,917Member Member Posts: 8,917Member Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I don't think she has anything to sell. I am curious as to what if she does.

    I don't know what and if, but most people of that kind at the very least are selling books, diet plans or "private counselling".
  • OishiiOishii Posts: 2,629Member Member Posts: 2,629Member Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I don't think she has anything to sell. I am curious as to what if she does.

    I don't know what and if, but most people of that kind at the very least are selling books, diet plans or "private counselling".

    Isn't she gaining financially by making the video?
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    I don't assume anyone's wrong simply because they have financial gain to make off of their claim, or are funded by groups that do. I do let it influence the level of scrutiny I'll pay to someone, particularly a person making claims counter to the established body of evidence and practice.
    She does cement my opinion about scrutinizing TEDx talks and remembering how different the vetting process is for it compared to real TED talks.
  • Expatmommy79Expatmommy79 Posts: 941Member, Premium Member Posts: 941Member, Premium Member
    She is an obesity dr and specialized in diabetes. The videos are free and I don't see any books.

    I think this her legit belief. She sounds credible but then I think... Wait.... So I shouldn't count calories, but I should follow:

    20g carbs
    80g protein
    135g fat

    Isn't gram counting macros the same as calorie counting? That's when it started sounding off to me.

    And also her part about insulin causing hunger... But goes on to say CICO doesn't matter. She is saying that people are eating too much without saying it.

    I can't put my finger on it but I find it weird.
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Posts: 42,611Member, Greeter Member Posts: 42,611Member, Greeter Member
    She gets PAID to endorse this and speak on it.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • Expatmommy79Expatmommy79 Posts: 941Member, Premium Member Posts: 941Member, Premium Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    She gets PAID to endorse this and speak on it.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    That would make sense... But paid by who?
  • moe0303moe0303 Posts: 933Member Member Posts: 933Member Member
    She is an obesity dr and specialized in diabetes. The videos are free and I don't see any books.

    I think this her legit belief. She sounds credible but then I think... Wait.... So I shouldn't count calories, but I should follow:

    20g carbs
    80g protein
    135g fat

    Isn't gram counting macros the same as calorie counting? That's when it started sounding off to me.

    And also her part about insulin causing hunger... But goes on to say CICO doesn't matter. She is saying that people are eating too much without saying it.

    I can't put my finger on it but I find it weird.
    Well, it is to an extent, but I think she would tell you that the fat is more like a goal, not a limit. So in your case, if you told her that you ate:

    20g carbs
    80g pro
    150g fat

    She would probably be fine with that. At least that's the way I understand it. In this example, you would go from 1615 to 1750 calories. You could go as high as 175g fat (1975 cals) and be within that 80% number. However, as @nvmomketo pointed out, people on LCHF probably tend to cut calories as fat seems to be better at satisfying hunger than carbs. That is my experience with it as well. Since I have started, I have no problem staying under the mfp prescribed calorie allotment even though that is no longer my goal.
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    moe0303 wrote: »
    She is an obesity dr and specialized in diabetes. The videos are free and I don't see any books.

    I think this her legit belief. She sounds credible but then I think... Wait.... So I shouldn't count calories, but I should follow:

    20g carbs
    80g protein
    135g fat

    Isn't gram counting macros the same as calorie counting? That's when it started sounding off to me.

    And also her part about insulin causing hunger... But goes on to say CICO doesn't matter. She is saying that people are eating too much without saying it.

    I can't put my finger on it but I find it weird.
    Well, it is to an extent, but I think she would tell you that the fat is more like a goal, not a limit. So in your case, if you told her that you ate:

    20g carbs
    80g pro
    150g fat

    She would probably be fine with that. At least that's the way I understand it. In this example, you would go from 1615 to 1750 calories. You could go as high as 175g fat (1975 cals) and be within that 80% number. However, as @nvmomketo pointed out, people on LCHF probably tend to cut calories as fat seems to be better at satisfying hunger than carbs. That is my experience with it as well. Since I have started, I have no problem staying under the mfp prescribed calorie allotment even though that is no longer my goal.

    Actually, lots of studies suggest that carbs are more satiating than fat for the average person (which is my experience).

    Carb choice matters, though, as fiber is more satiating for most than highly refined or low fiber carbs. Often people who claim to have benefited from a low carb diet were making terrible carb choices before and also increase their protein (which is satiating to most).

    I do agree that for some people fat is probably satiating. It's not for me at all.
    edited March 2016
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