The Daniel Plan
Replies
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Anything with Dr. Oz's support is a scam.0
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I don't know why I assumed there was some fasting element to the Daniel Plan, I'm sure it's just my ignorance! [/quote]
A church I attended years ago did a "Daniel Fast" where our congregation was supposed to fast from "meats and sweets" for 21 days while praying together for a variety of things on a list.
I think it came from the Biblical account of Daniel 10:3 where Daniel didn't eat meat or "pleasant bread", i.e. sweets.0 -
damn, daniel.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »(I'd also thought it was a fasting thing, no idea why.)
Isn't that just Lent?
Oh, I'm very familiar with Lent. Nothing to do with the Daniel Plan. At least not traditionally. In some denominations, maybe. (Making Lent into a way to lose weight always annoys me, also, as I think it's contrary to the spirit.)
I don't know why I assumed there was some fasting element to the Daniel Plan, I'm sure it's just my ignorance!
It's a reasonable assumption. Fasting can be year round; Lent is just the most prolonged and important fast. In the middle ages the church had set fast days (every Friday, for example), which was helpful for both spiritual purposes, but also helped ensure that the rich didn't eat ALL the food out of the mouths of the poor, just MOST of the food. There was always a fast before every feast day as well, to make the feast more meaningful and special. The Jewish tradition had fasting year round as well. And then there is the tradition of the ascetics and the hard-core fasting in monastic communities, as well as private fasts by devout individuals as needed.0 -
As a Daniel, I like the name of the plan. haha. Nothing wrong with mixing faith with fitness. If you are religious, it should be aligned with all your goals. The basics of the plan aren't too bad, half veggies, 25% protein, 25% carbs. I mean, there are enough ways to approach this correctly, but you cant go too far wrong. If I was going to pay for something, I think I'd spend my money elsewhere, but whatever you commit to and can stick with will be the deciding factor. It all works to varying degrees. It is what you can happily follow and sustain consistently that matters most.0
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In for unlimited servings of milk and honey.
Also, is it odd that when I tried to picture the Perizzites while reading the list of people in Canaan, I thought of someone holding a pepperoni pizza?0 -
That Dr Hyman and his woo seem to pop up with clockwork regularity on these boards...*enter hyman joke here*0
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If reps for Jesus isn't mentioned anywhere in this, I'll be disappointed.0
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I just read through the nutrition plan of this program. Nothing spectacular or groundbreaking. It comes down to
50 percent non-starchy veggies
25 percent healthy animal or vegetable proteins
25 percent healthy starch or whole grains
This kind of plan is what the "experts" call a balanced approach to dieting that doesn't give you any results.
The "Founding Doctors" could indeed hold MDs and PhD (I don't know about Rick Warren) but none of them are nutritional experts:
Rick Warren - no background in nutrition and health/fitness
Dr. Oz - he is an MD but he would put his name behind anything and anyone that gives him a check, so his credibility is as good as none.
Daniel Amen is a psychiatrist - not exactly a nutrition expert
Mark Hyman seems to be the only the team that may have some relevant experience and has not made a fool of himself by being "excited" about green coffee bean extract and the mahu-mahu root that cures cardiovascular disease just by smell.
Judging by the number of typos I found in the first 5 minutes of reading the stuff on their site, it seems like they slapped this whole project together in a matter of weeks.
Overall, it looks like another money grab, this time with a Christian bend.
Here's what I suggest you do instead of falling into this trap:
1. Save your money and don't waste it on this book;
2. Go on Bodybuilding.com (no affiliation with the site whatsoever) and find a solid nutrition and exercise plan;
3. Follow the plan and get results.0 -
As a Brit, when I read about diet plans like this on mfp, I am glad I'm a cynical English miser who trusts nobody. The things Americans try to sell each other, honestly!0
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.1 -
As a Brit, when I read about diet plans like this on mfp, I am glad I'm a cynical English miser who trusts nobody. The things Americans try to sell each other, honestly!
To be fair, we are probably worse for falling for utter nonsense.
Let's not forget "Dr" Gillian McKeith had her own TV show...0 -
...From what I understand, without buying the book, it's losing weight with the support of your church/religious friends.
I lol'ed.smotheredincheese wrote: »That Dr Hyman and his woo seem to pop up with clockwork regularity on these boards...*enter hyman joke here*
Then I lol'ed harder. I'm such a child.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
I agree ...
It is just pastors like this that use the word to enrich themselves create a sterotype that all faith based people are the same, or are just moronic lemming following another one off the cliff...
drives me crazy...
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As a Brit, when I read about diet plans like this on mfp, I am glad I'm a cynical English miser who trusts nobody. The things Americans try to sell each other, honestly!
To be fair, we are probably worse for falling for utter nonsense.
Let's not forget "Dr" Gillian McKeith had her own TV show...
I'm American who now lives in England. The location has changed and the flavo(u)r of woo has changed with it, but I'd say the quantity has remained constant. You can find gullible people wherever you go.0 -
As a Brit, when I read about diet plans like this on mfp, I am glad I'm a cynical English miser who trusts nobody. The things Americans try to sell each other, honestly!
To be fair, we are probably worse for falling for utter nonsense.
Let's not forget "Dr" Gillian McKeith had her own TV show...
I wish I could forget her. Bloody crackpot woman. Thank heavens for Ben Goldacre, and his fabulous hatchet job on her.
http://www.badscience.net/2007/02/ms-gillian-mckeith-banned-from-calling-herself-a-doctor/0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
I agree ...
It is just pastors like this that use the word to enrich themselves create a sterotype that all faith based people are the same, or are just moronic lemming following another one off the cliff...
drives me crazy...
Yup.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
You sound like a decent guy and I do not doubt that your intentions are honourable.
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
We must ask ourselves what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day.
I would hope people like you can wrestle your religion away from the power and control hungry out there. However from where I am sitting all major religions have a terrible track record in abusing such power and control and things like this are simply indicative of an established pattern of what has gone before - the true face of religion.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
You sound like a decent guy and I do not doubt that your intentions are honourable.
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
We must ask ourselves what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day.
I would hope people like you can wrestle your religion away from the power and control hungry out there. However from where I am sitting all major religions have a terrible track record in abusing such power and control and things like this are simply indicative of an established pattern of what has gone before - the true face of religion.
so the actions of a few are then translated to the whole???0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
You sound like a decent guy and I do not doubt that your intentions are honourable.
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
We must ask ourselves what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day.
I would hope people like you can wrestle your religion away from the power and control hungry out there. However from where I am sitting all major religions have a terrible track record in abusing such power and control and things like this are simply indicative of an established pattern of what has gone before - the true face of religion.
so the actions of a few are then translated to the whole???
No, we look to, as stated above, what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day to establish what the trend has been.
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
You sound like a decent guy and I do not doubt that your intentions are honourable.
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
We must ask ourselves what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day.
I would hope people like you can wrestle your religion away from the power and control hungry out there. However from where I am sitting all major religions have a terrible track record in abusing such power and control and things like this are simply indicative of an established pattern of what has gone before - the true face of religion.
so the actions of a few are then translated to the whole???
No, we look to, as stated above, what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day to establish what the trend has been.
I was referring to this statement, sorry should of bolded:
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?0 -
As a Brit, when I read about diet plans like this on mfp, I am glad I'm a cynical English miser who trusts nobody. The things Americans try to sell each other, honestly!
Oh I don't know about that, my facebook newsfeed has been occupied pretty heavily lately by women selling each other the JuicePlus pyramid scheme and claiming to lose a stone in 10 days after using booster sachets etc etc0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
You sound like a decent guy and I do not doubt that your intentions are honourable.
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
We must ask ourselves what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day.
I would hope people like you can wrestle your religion away from the power and control hungry out there. However from where I am sitting all major religions have a terrible track record in abusing such power and control and things like this are simply indicative of an established pattern of what has gone before - the true face of religion.
so the actions of a few are then translated to the whole???
No, we look to, as stated above, what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day to establish what the trend has been.
I was referring to this statement, sorry should of bolded:
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
No probs.
You may consider this to be the few and you may be right that in terms of physical numbers there are probably far more religious people doing good and living peaceful lives than there are not.
However and sadly, it is not these people who get to define what their religion means generally. It is what the texts say (which are supposed to be revealed truth let us not forget) and how these are then passed down by authority figures who tell the general population how these texts should be applied.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
You sound like a decent guy and I do not doubt that your intentions are honourable.
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
We must ask ourselves what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day.
I would hope people like you can wrestle your religion away from the power and control hungry out there. However from where I am sitting all major religions have a terrible track record in abusing such power and control and things like this are simply indicative of an established pattern of what has gone before - the true face of religion.
You say it is the true face of religion. It seems more to me it is the true face of humanity in general. Whether a person is religious or not, their are people who abuse power. It has been done by religious people, but it has been done just as much by atheists like Joseph Stalin among many others. To fob it off on religion ignores that the issue is with humanity.
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rileysowner wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
You sound like a decent guy and I do not doubt that your intentions are honourable.
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
We must ask ourselves what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day.
I would hope people like you can wrestle your religion away from the power and control hungry out there. However from where I am sitting all major religions have a terrible track record in abusing such power and control and things like this are simply indicative of an established pattern of what has gone before - the true face of religion.
You say it is the true face of religion. It seems more to me it is the true face of humanity in general. Whether a person is religious or not, their are people who abuse power. It has been done by religious people, but it has been done just as much by atheists like Joseph Stalin among many others. To fob it off on religion ignores that the issue is with humanity.
It may well be the true face of humanity. However, exacerbating the situation by sanctioning abuse of power backed up by celestial authority, which is supposed to be unquestionable, makes things decidedly worse.
As for Stalin, his actions were not predicated by a non belief in the theist position that God exists.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
You sound like a decent guy and I do not doubt that your intentions are honourable.
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
We must ask ourselves what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day.
I would hope people like you can wrestle your religion away from the power and control hungry out there. However from where I am sitting all major religions have a terrible track record in abusing such power and control and things like this are simply indicative of an established pattern of what has gone before - the true face of religion.
so the actions of a few are then translated to the whole???
No, we look to, as stated above, what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day to establish what the trend has been.
I was referring to this statement, sorry should of bolded:
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
No probs.
You may consider this to be the few and you may be right that in terms of physical numbers there are probably far more religious people doing good and living peaceful lives than there are not.
However and sadly, it is not these people who get to define what their religion means generally. It is what the texts say (which are supposed to be revealed truth let us not forget) and how these are then passed down by authority figures who tell the general population how these texts should be applied.
well, I don't think that is a fair comparison to make, and if you made a similar statement about a group of people then you would get torn to shreds for it, but it seems like - IMO - that its is totally legit to paint a broad brush against people of faith and everyone just nods there heads.
I think the problem you identified with interpreting texts is applicable to all groups as a whole and not just religions. Look at the constitution, there is the original intent of the founders, and then a whole subset of interpretations by the supreme court which appear to not be in line with the founding document....0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
You sound like a decent guy and I do not doubt that your intentions are honourable.
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
We must ask ourselves what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day.
I would hope people like you can wrestle your religion away from the power and control hungry out there. However from where I am sitting all major religions have a terrible track record in abusing such power and control and things like this are simply indicative of an established pattern of what has gone before - the true face of religion.
Welp, based on my several readings of the Bible, there is no "Daniel Plan" in there, so I'm not sure why any Christian has to take responsibility for this diet because a bunch of scam artists teamed up with one televangelist and suggested their diet is based on the Bible.
Most fad diets claim they are supported by scientific studies by cherry-picking results much like the Daniel Plan uses the Bible, so based on your argument we should all stop claiming that fad diets aren't based in science. I mean, some dude with a PhD can show a written study where this plan works, so science has to either kick all the charlatans out or support those fad diets!0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
You sound like a decent guy and I do not doubt that your intentions are honourable.
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
We must ask ourselves what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day.
I would hope people like you can wrestle your religion away from the power and control hungry out there. However from where I am sitting all major religions have a terrible track record in abusing such power and control and things like this are simply indicative of an established pattern of what has gone before - the true face of religion.
so the actions of a few are then translated to the whole???
No, we look to, as stated above, what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day to establish what the trend has been.
I was referring to this statement, sorry should of bolded:
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
No probs.
You may consider this to be the few and you may be right that in terms of physical numbers there are probably far more religious people doing good and living peaceful lives than there are not.
However and sadly, it is not these people who get to define what their religion means generally. It is what the texts say (which are supposed to be revealed truth let us not forget) and how these are then passed down by authority figures who tell the general population how these texts should be applied.
well, I don't think that is a fair comparison to make, and if you made a similar statement about a group of people then you would get torn to shreds for it, but it seems like - IMO - that its is totally legit to paint a broad brush against people of faith and everyone just nods there heads.
I think the problem you identified with interpreting texts is applicable to all groups as a whole and not just religions. Look at the constitution, there is the original intent of the founders, and then a whole subset of interpretations by the supreme court which appear to not be in line with the founding document....
But surely your point about the Constitution (which I think is magnificent piece of drafting) supports the idea that determine what the correct position is that you have to look to the text first and what it says. That was one of the points I made earlier.
As for it being an unfair comparison, I don't believe that to be the case. I would hope that any group which has a central document which contains ideas which are fundamentally bad would be challenged and should be challenged on it.
Now I get the impression that the sword of Damocles may be hovering over our heads for even having this discussion but I hope as long as the discussion remains amicable we may be allowed to continue the debate.
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Speaking as a minister myself, I see it as a case of a "celebrity" pastor attempting to capitalize on the diet industry by twisting the true meaning of the Scriptural narrative into something it's not.
this is the kind of thing that makes people frown on faith based people....
And towards those who are guilty of things like this, I share that frown.
Then I frown at them again for giving a bad name to those of us who truly just want to seek God and serve others (what the ministry is really supposed to be).
Not everyone is a money grubbing televangelist. I personally know people who have walked away from good jobs and comfortable homes so they could live on less while doing what they felt God calling them to do.
Unfortunately, that's not the view of the church that society gets. What gets shown to society is guys like this and the ones offering an olive branch for your $100 donation.
You sound like a decent guy and I do not doubt that your intentions are honourable.
However, you don't get to do this. You do not get to disavow people who do things in the name of your religion simply because it is inconvenient or goes against what you believe the position truly is or should be. Should I be convinced by what you say simply because you tell me you know what the real deal is with your religion and not the high profile proponents saying they know better out there?
We must ask ourselves what religious texts say in relation to what individuals should and should not do in relation to their bodies (in this case diet), how this has then translated practically into commandments to the faithful by authority figures and whether this still goes on to this day.
I would hope people like you can wrestle your religion away from the power and control hungry out there. However from where I am sitting all major religions have a terrible track record in abusing such power and control and things like this are simply indicative of an established pattern of what has gone before - the true face of religion.
Actually, as a representative of my faith and a student of the Scriptures, I absolutely can disavow those who abuse and/or misrepresent the Word of God. Christ taught that we will "know them by their fruits."
If what someone is doing (especially what they are doing in the name of Christ or His church) is out of line with the teachings of Scripture, I not only have the right, I have the duty, to call them out on it.
Teaching Daniel's fast as a diet plan rather than a short term exercise of consecration via self denial during a period of intense prayer for divine intervention is a misrepresentation of Scripture. I will call it as such.0
This discussion has been closed.
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