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Are all calories the same??

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  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    elite_nal wrote: »
    A calorie is a calorie since it's a unit of energy, but that doesn't mean that 200 calories from potato chips will have the same effect on body composition as 200 calories from lean protein and veggies.

    200 calories of something will have about 0 effect on your body composition. It's your total diet that will.
  • toe1226
    toe1226 Posts: 249 Member
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    Yes, and also, no.

    A calorie is a unit of measurement. So, a calorie = a calorie. Energetically (as in, how many calories it takes to heat 1 gram of water by 1 degree celsius) - all calories are equal.

    That being said, as humans are a diverse species with varying genetics, body types, and needs, people will find that calories comprised of differing macronutrients will suit their needs better or worse, based on their background as well as their goals.

    People with a "cut" or "muscular" look often eat high levels of protein, for example.
  • jacklifts
    jacklifts Posts: 396 Member
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    Layne Norton weighs in on calories

    https://www.biolayne.com/articles/nutrition/is-a-calorie-truly-a-calorie/
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    stevencloser wrote: »
    elite_nal wrote: »
    A calorie is a calorie since it's a unit of energy, but that doesn't mean that 200 calories from potato chips will have the same effect on body composition as 200 calories from lean protein and veggies.

    200 calories of something will have about 0 effect on your body composition. It's your total diet that will.

    Because context and dosage matter. An often overlooked point.
  • VeryKatie
    VeryKatie Posts: 5,933 Member
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    Honestly, it seems to me you answered your own question in point 1.
    Nothing can make a calorie not a calorie.
    How our bodies respond to different types of foods is not the definition of a calorie.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    VeryKatie wrote: »
    Honestly, it seems to me you answered your own question in point 1.
    Nothing can make a calorie not a calorie.
    How our bodies respond to different types of foods is not the definition of a calorie.

    +1 Great way of putting it.
  • mommarnurse
    mommarnurse Posts: 515 Member
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    psulemon wrote: »
    I wanted to start a thread that looks at the metabolic effects of calories. In particular, to discuss if all calories are equal from an energy standpoint and/or from a weight loss standpoint. Before that, there are a few parameters I must be addressed:
    1. Yes, I understand a calories is a calorie in terms of a unit of measure (just like a lb is a lb) and a calorie is the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of 1 kilogram of water 1 degree Celsius
    2. Diet adherence isn't part of the discussion (which I fully recognize as the most important variable for weight loss and sustainability)
    3. And yes, I am majoring in the minors... I fully recognize there are many other items on the pyramid that need to be addressed prior to these minute tweets in diet, to maximize fat loss.


    Calorie for Calorie, Dietary Fat Restriction Results inMore Body Fat Loss than Carbohydrate Restriction in People with Obesity

    Many of you have already seen this, it's been reference on the forum a few times. And my intent isn't to use this as the normal LC vs LF, which is better. But merely, my goal is to get others thoughts, or understand why a very low fat diet yielded greater fat loss, while calories and protein were held constant? Would such a study suggest there is a metabolic advantage to cutting fat over carbohydrates in people who do NOT have medical conditions. And more importantly, are all calories equal? If so, why would we see these kinds of results?

    For me, this may suggest that there are some metabolic advantages of certain diets.

    The reason one would lose more weight on low fat vs. Low calorie is only because low fat would have a higher calorie deficit since a gram of fat is 9 calories and a gram of carbohydrates is 4 calories.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,394 MFP Moderator
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    mommarnurse wrote: »
    psulemon wrote: »
    I wanted to start a thread that looks at the metabolic effects of calories. In particular, to discuss if all calories are equal from an energy standpoint and/or from a weight loss standpoint. Before that, there are a few parameters I must be addressed:
    1. Yes, I understand a calories is a calorie in terms of a unit of measure (just like a lb is a lb) and a calorie is the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of 1 kilogram of water 1 degree Celsius
    2. Diet adherence isn't part of the discussion (which I fully recognize as the most important variable for weight loss and sustainability)
    3. And yes, I am majoring in the minors... I fully recognize there are many other items on the pyramid that need to be addressed prior to these minute tweets in diet, to maximize fat loss.


    Calorie for Calorie, Dietary Fat Restriction Results inMore Body Fat Loss than Carbohydrate Restriction in People with Obesity

    Many of you have already seen this, it's been reference on the forum a few times. And my intent isn't to use this as the normal LC vs LF, which is better. But merely, my goal is to get others thoughts, or understand why a very low fat diet yielded greater fat loss, while calories and protein were held constant? Would such a study suggest there is a metabolic advantage to cutting fat over carbohydrates in people who do NOT have medical conditions. And more importantly, are all calories equal? If so, why would we see these kinds of results?

    For me, this may suggest that there are some metabolic advantages of certain diets.

    The reason one would lose more weight on low fat vs. Low calorie is only because low fat would have a higher calorie deficit since a gram of fat is 9 calories and a gram of carbohydrates is 4 calories.

    You should read the study. The calories were the same on both diets.
  • mommarnurse
    mommarnurse Posts: 515 Member
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    CupcakesMom2 wrote: »
    I love this thread. I have always felt that while calories in/ calories out is correct, that its not the entire picture.

    It IS the entire picture. Everything else is just little details inside the picture. CICO is the end all of the matter.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
    edited March 2016
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    I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,394 MFP Moderator
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    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.

    Carbs dont increase cancer. And thr healthiest countries in the world are very heavily carb based.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research.

    False -- did you read the report on the lung cancer study?

    Causal effect is questionable, but correlation exists for high GI diet AND high sat fat.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.

    @GaleHawkins


    Gale you say you 2500-3000 calories and you're pretty much claiming maintenance. Your maintenance is that high? Hard to believe when all you do is walk 1/4 of a mile a day.

    You claim that you have 1200 calories in coconut oil but that leaves a ton of calories left. How many grams of protein are you eating while keeping carbs below 50g per day?

  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.

    please provide a source for this established fact…..
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,394 MFP Moderator
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    queenliz99 wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.

    @GaleHawkins


    Gale you say you 2500-3000 calories and you're pretty much claiming maintenance. Your maintenance is that high? Hard to believe when all you do is walk 1/4 of a mile a day.

    You claim that you have 1200 calories in coconut oil but that leaves a ton of calories left. How many grams of protein are you eating while keeping carbs below 50g per day?

    Those maintenance numbers are really not all that unreasonable. Even if i do no exercise i maintain at 2500. So if you add additional walking and move more, i can see that as reasonable, even for his age. I also suspect i weigh less.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
    edited March 2016
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    psulemon wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.

    @GaleHawkins


    Gale you say you 2500-3000 calories and you're pretty much claiming maintenance. Your maintenance is that high? Hard to believe when all you do is walk 1/4 of a mile a day.

    You claim that you have 1200 calories in coconut oil but that leaves a ton of calories left. How many grams of protein are you eating while keeping carbs below 50g per day?

    Those maintenance numbers are really not all that unreasonable. Even if i do no exercise i maintain at 2500. So if you add additional walking and move more, i can see that as reasonable, even for his age. I also suspect i weigh less.

    His numbers still don't make sense. He is, for the most part, sedentary. You are younger and he is 65? How many men at Gale's age, with his medical problems and limitations, have you come across that have a maintenance of 2500-3000.

    ETA grammar
  • mccindy72
    mccindy72 Posts: 7,001 Member
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    psulemon wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.

    @GaleHawkins


    Gale you say you 2500-3000 calories and you're pretty much claiming maintenance. Your maintenance is that high? Hard to believe when all you do is walk 1/4 of a mile a day.

    You claim that you have 1200 calories in coconut oil but that leaves a ton of calories left. How many grams of protein are you eating while keeping carbs below 50g per day?

    Those maintenance numbers are really not all that unreasonable. Even if i do no exercise i maintain at 2500. So if you add additional walking and move more, i can see that as reasonable, even for his age. I also suspect i weigh less.

    Comorbidities, age, and muscle mass all make an incredible amount of difference for maintenance level calories. At age 65 with a medical condition that severely limits not only exercise but regular daily activity level as Mr. Hawkins has previously described, his muscle mass will be severely deteriorated from the norm. Deteriorated muscle mass doesn't require the caloric load for maintenance that standard does, nor does limited mobility.
    For example, myself as a 5'7" woman at 43 years of age, 125 lbs, and severely limited in activity for an extended period of time, my daily maintenance calories are 1600. When I was active, prior to my disability, I could eat over 2000 calories a day.
  • mccindy72
    mccindy72 Posts: 7,001 Member
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    I don't want this to turn into a "let's bash Gale Hawkins' event. it's just an example, in my case, of a misconception that can happen between the norm of healthy, physically capable adults, and the disabled or those with medical conditions that limit mobility.
    When lurkers and new people to the forums are reading through threads and trying to pick up information, it can be confusing. It's helpful to explain things like this when people who have been in the forums for a long time are advocating specific eating habits.

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