Not so great bariatric results
summerbreez1132
Posts: 4 Member
Is there anyone out there who had a successful bariatric surgery but didn't get the results anticipated because you didn't eat out exercise as directed? Im that person also and would like to hear from others who have. Let's encourage each other top get back on track and finish out quest with amazing results. My name is summer
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I gained 9kg afterwards due to old habits coming back. Yes I have a much small stomach however I can still binge eat and east every few hours if I want. Trying to get back on track now before its too late.0
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Here is a group of people dealing with this: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/637-gastric-bypass-vsg-lapband0
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The inherent problem is your eating habits. Go on google, calculate your TDEE, and eat -10% to -20% of that (a deficit of -500calories = 1lbs down per week). This is the golden rule - it doesn't matter what else you do, as long as your calories in < calories out. There is no short cut to this.
What does your food log look like? Track EVERYTHING you put in your mouth, even on days where you 'cheat'. You get a good idea of what progress you can expect to make. 1 lb a week is a good, long term result. That means 12lbs in 3 months and ~50lbs in a year.
Anything more aggressive is too hard and sets you up for failure - why do you think the "new year crowd" in the gym dies in 3 weeks? People go from 0 gym days to 5 times a week and get discouraged when they don't see immediate changes. A long term solution would be go to the gym 2 or 3 times a week, and keep at it for the whole year.
The longer it takes for your change, the more permanent it is. Don't look for shortcuts, look for long term habits. The rest of your life will thank you for it.0 -
There's no magical difference between someone who had bariatric surgery, and someone who didn't.
Log everything that goes into your mouth.
Exercise for at least 30 minutes a day.
Consume fewer calories than you burn.0 -
billieljaime wrote: »BARIATRIC has a great failure rate for this reason. People dont change their habits and follow through completey. You need to make a life style change to get the results you want.
Bariatric surgery does not have a "great failure rate." Longitudinal studies have shown an average long-term weight loss of roughly 50% of excess body weight [1, 2, 3] - far, far, FAR more successful than any other weight loss method out there for the population in question (i.e., morbidly obese people.) Now, notice that this means a 6'-tall, 450lbs man will still weigh 300+ lbs several years after surgery because, as you correctly point out, most people don't grasp the idea that their surgery is just a tool to help them change their habits. But the issue there is one of unrealistic expectations - people seeing bariatric surgery as an easy way out of having to do any work to reach a normal body weight, rather than as a last-resort way to drop a lot of excess pounds so they don't die within the next couple of years, or whatever.
OP, I'm one of those few outliers who got rid of all their excess weight after surgery. If I could give everyone undergoing surgery one piece of advice, it would be to make them understand that "surgery is just a tool." You probably heard that a million times going through the pre-op process, but nobody seems to really grasp what that means until it's too late. Surgery will only really restrict your intake and force you to drop weight for a year or two (the so-called "honeymoon period" after surgery.) If you don't use that time to learn proper eating and exercise habits, you're pretty much back where you started, just at a lower (but probably still high) body weight. If you want to lose weight you still have to do all the stuff that people who didn't get surgery have to do: learn to read nutrition labels, track your calories, weigh and log your food accurately, monitor your weight consistently, choose lower calorie density, highly satiating foods, increase your physical activity, etc.
Good luck, OP!
[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23235396
[2] http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=199587
[3] http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=19005160 -
fatfudgery wrote: »billieljaime wrote: »BARIATRIC has a great failure rate for this reason. People dont change their habits and follow through completey. You need to make a life style change to get the results you want.
Bariatric surgery does not have a "great failure rate." Longitudinal studies have shown an average long-term weight loss of roughly 50% of excess body weight [1, 2, 3] - far, far, FAR more successful than any other weight loss method out there for the population in question (i.e., morbidly obese people.) Now, notice that this means a 6'-tall, 450lbs man will still weigh 300+ lbs several years after surgery because, as you correctly point out, most people don't grasp the idea that their surgery is just a tool to help them change their habits. But the issue there is one of unrealistic expectations - people seeing bariatric surgery as an easy way out of having to do any work to reach a normal body weight, rather than as a last-resort way to drop a lot of excess pounds so they don't die within the next couple of years, or whatever.
OP, I'm one of those few outliers who got rid of all their excess weight after surgery. If I could give everyone undergoing surgery one piece of advice, it would be to make them understand that "surgery is just a tool." You probably heard that a million times going through the pre-op process, but nobody seems to really grasp what that means until it's too late. Surgery will only really restrict your intake and force you to drop weight for a year or two (the so-called "honeymoon period" after surgery.) If you don't use that time to learn proper eating and exercise habits, you're pretty much back where you started, just at a lower (but probably still high) body weight. If you want to lose weight you still have to do all the stuff that people who didn't get surgery have to do: learn to read nutrition labels, track your calories, weigh and log your food accurately, monitor your weight consistently, choose lower calorie density, highly satiating foods, increase your physical activity, etc.
Good luck, OP!
[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23235396
[2] http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=199587
[3] http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1900516
I'd guess those methods would include any fad and crash diet. Do you know the success rates of healthy and sustainable eating/exercise plan vs surgery?0 -
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I have known many people who had various weight loss surgeries.
only ONE (out of a dozen or more) kept the weight off long term.
it requires lifestyle changes, the same as following MFP would.
And MFP is free.
Yes, there are success stories. But they put in a lot of work to make it a success story.0 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »I have known many people who had various weight loss surgeries.
only ONE (out of a dozen or more) kept the weight off long term.
it requires lifestyle changes, the same as following MFP would.
And MFP is free.
Yes, there are success stories. But they put in a lot of work to make it a success story.
I was a patient ambassador at the weight loss center that did my surgery and met literally HUNDREDS of post-op patients that managed to keep a lot of weight off. Hundreds is more than twelve. I win the meaningless anecdotal evidence game! :-D0 -
My sister got the lap band about a year ago. She found a way to outsmart it right away.0
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fatfudgery wrote: »callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »I have known many people who had various weight loss surgeries.
only ONE (out of a dozen or more) kept the weight off long term.
it requires lifestyle changes, the same as following MFP would.
And MFP is free.
Yes, there are success stories. But they put in a lot of work to make it a success story.
I was a patient ambassador at the weight loss center that did my surgery and met literally HUNDREDS of post-op patients that managed to keep a lot of weight off. Hundreds is more than twelve. I win the meaningless anecdotal evidence game! :-D
well i know about 12. given your career, i would hope you know more.
not to mention hundreds out of presumably thousands isn't any better a statistic
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People who haven't had surgery, always have the most to say about how it's a failure. SMH
But back to the OP, I've lost almost all my goal weight, I'm currently working on what I want to do with my body now. I'm working out and lifting. Trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.0 -
gurlygirlrcr80 wrote: »People who haven't had surgery, always have the most to say about how it's a failure. SMH
But back to the OP, I've lost almost all my goal weight, I'm currently working on what I want to do with my body now. I'm working out and lifting. Trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.
It's not the surgery that fails. It's the patient. Seeing loved one after loved one fail at using the surgery to their advantage definitely gives an observer cause to speak about it.0 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »not to mention hundreds out of presumably thousands isn't any better a statistic
True enough. So instead of spewing out meaningless "I know 12 people!" anecdotal evidence, let's look at actual scientific research on the subject:Long-term outcomes after bariatric surgery: fifteen-year follow-up of adjustable gastric banding and a systematic review of the bariatric surgical literature - "...The systematic review of all bariatric procedures with 10 or more years of follow-up showed greater than 50% EWL for all current procedures. The weighted mean at maximum follow-up for LAGB was 54.2% EWL and for Roux-en-Y gastric bypass was 54.0% EWL..."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23235396Bariatric Surgery: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis - "...The mean (95% confidence interval) percentage of excess weight loss was 61.2% (58.1%-64.4%) for all patients; 47.5% (40.7%-54.2%) for patients who underwent gastric banding; 61.6% (56.7%-66.5%), gastric bypass; 68.2% (61.5%-74.8%), gastroplasty; and 70.1% (66.3%-73.9%), biliopancreatic diversion or duodenal switch..."
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=199587Long-term Follow-up After Bariatric Surgery - A Systematic Review - "...Of 7371 clinical studies reviewed, 29 studies (0.4%, 7971 patients) met inclusion criteria. All gastric bypass studies (6 prospective cohorts, 5 retrospective cohorts) and sleeve gastrectomy studies (2 retrospective cohorts) had 95% confidence intervals for the reported mean, median, or both exceeding 50% excess weight loss. This amount of excess weight loss occurred in 31% of gastric band studies (9 prospective cohorts, 5 retrospective cohorts). The mean sample-size–weighted percentage of excess weight loss for gastric bypass was 65.7% (n = 3544) vs 45.0% (n = 4109) for gastric band..."
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1900516
So about a 50% reduction in excess body weight, give or take, when you look at thousands and thousands of bariatric surgery patients 5+ years after surgery. Notice that these are all meta-analyses, too, not one-off studies.
So tell me again how bariatric surgery doesn't work long-term...0 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »Seeing loved one after loved one fail at using the surgery to their advantage definitely gives an observer cause to speak about it.
What were your loved ones' starting body weights? What are their weights now? How long ago did they have surgery? What types of surgery?0 -
Not in your boat, but I wish you the best of luck OP!0
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You still got that move your body and count your calories to lose weight
CICO you can still eat too many calories with surgery all because you eat get large volumes doesn't mean calories aren't large
A bar chocolate compared to a prawn salad first has lots more calories the second is more volume0 -
My dearest friend did so GREAT- for a while.
She would actually be in a lot of pain after eating for a long while after her surgery- so she learned the hard way.
But she has slowly crept back up seeing as how she never changes her habits. I feel for her.
But just like everyone else who has to have "the talk" with themselves- surgery or not - get back on track!
You can do it!
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She already had the surgery so I really don't understand the purpose of people saying "well surgery won't help". It sounds like she's looking for similarly situated individuals who are also struggling.
Of course it boils down to "calories in, calories out" and while the math may be that simple, actually implementing that into one's life and sticking with it is much more complicated. If it was that easy, there wouldn't be such a high rate of regaining, and obesity, etc. etc. I'd like to think that everyone means well but some of this comes off as condescending.
FWIW, if we're going to talk about people they know, I've mostly only seen positive experiences with WLS. Even if there is some re-gain, keeping off 60 or 75% of the weight lost is a lot better than nothing. I've never had nor considered WLS, but I think it can be the difference-maker for a lot of people struggling with weight.1 -
I'm just copying my response to another, similar thread that is relevant here:
"I had a VSG in 2012. I lost the weight quickly & maintained for 2 years. Then, I regained quite a bit--thankfully not everything. I had a horrible year & just stopped taking care of myself & started binging. That whole year was just a continuous binge for me. I am really thankful for the sleeve because I was restricted in the amount that I could physically put in my stomach. Instead of sitting down & eating a whole package of cookies, I could only eat some of them.
I am now 12 lbs from my maintenance weight & will be back at maintenance within the next 2 months.
I started by going back to my doctor so I would have some accountability in my eating & monitoring of my nutrition & blood work. I see her monthly again. It was embarrassing & hard to admit that I'd gone all haywire. When you lose weight without surgery & regain, everyone is much more understanding. When you have WLS & regain, there are a lot of people waiting to tell you what a big mistake you've made--you've wasted all that money, you haven't learned anything because you took the "easy way out", etc. You don't want to be one of those failure stories everyone trots out when WLS comes up. Pretty early on in my binging, I stopped going to any of my doctors.
I still have my sleeve & can still make use of it. I went back to eating like I did right after my surgery: no liquids 30 minutes before or after a meal, no sodas, no straws, protein first during a meal & get in at least 80g per day, no more than 3/4 cup of food per meal (volume-wise), I cut my calories down to my "losing" amount, I started taking all my vitamins again, I weigh & log everything religiously, I pre-plan everything I eat. I make sure I include sweets because I know that it's not a sustainable plan for me if I don't. These are all the things that I did right after surgery--your specifics may be different. Just go back to the basics. If you don't have your packet anymore, ask your doctor for another one."
I'm now 7.5 lbs from my maintenance weight. You HAVE to track your food. I rarely exercise, although I'm going to start weightlifting as soon as I can get the room cleared out & the equipment set up. It's all about the # calories you eat for weight loss & you have the advantage of having a smaller stomach, so you can actually eat that smaller amount without being really hungry all the time. For me, the hardest part is maintenance--it lasts the rest of your life & every meal is a choice.
My thinking on regain is that it can happen to anyone & probably will. People always bring up that they know so & so who had the surgery & then just regained all the weight they lost. Just about everyone I know who lost weight WITHOUT the surgery has ALSO regained the weight. Seriously, if weight loss was a do it once & then you're done type thing, there wouldn't be a MFP. All you have to do is start reading the posts in the forums & you'll find over & over where people are here to re-lose weight that they lost previously. And not everyone is just rebounding from fad or very low calorie diets. Regain can happen to anyone because maintenance is hard & if you're like me & let anything slip, you'll start to put weight back on. Everyone can talk all they want about how they've made a "lifestyle change" so it's going to last this time, but the reality is that life changes all the time & it's a very slippery slope. This last episode was definitely more than letting things slip for me, but those things happen in real life as well for lots of different people. I hope it never happens again, but if it does, I'm glad to have my sleeve as a tool.
OP, you can absolutely lose the weight. Being here to track your calories is definitely the right choice. You can add me but I'm a horrible friend
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A 50% reduction in excess body weight - So if a 300 lb woman with an ideal weight of 150 hit this average she would still weigh 225 lbs and be obese. Hmm.
I wonder what the median achievement is.....0 -
fatfudgery wrote: »callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »not to mention hundreds out of presumably thousands isn't any better a statistic
True enough. So instead of spewing out meaningless "I know 12 people!" anecdotal evidence, let's look at actual scientific research on the subject:
>>links snipped; see original comment<<
So about a 50% reduction in excess body weight, give or take, when you look at thousands and thousands of bariatric surgery patients 5+ years after surgery. Notice that these are all meta-analyses, too, not one-off studies.
So tell me again how bariatric surgery doesn't work long-term...
Systematic Reviews and metanalysis, huzzah! You are the very first person in 2 years of using MFP that has provided anything approaching real evidence (not small pop, low quality studies) to make a point about weight loss and fitness! I bow down. What a breath of fresh air!0 -
Meta analysis is to analysis what meta physics is to physics ?
Systematic cherry picking is also an issue.0 -
fatfudgery wrote: »billieljaime wrote: »BARIATRIC has a great failure rate for this reason. People dont change their habits and follow through completey. You need to make a life style change to get the results you want.
Bariatric surgery does not have a "great failure rate." Longitudinal studies have shown an average long-term weight loss of roughly 50% of excess body weight [1, 2, 3] - far, far, FAR more successful than any other weight loss method out there for the population in question (i.e., morbidly obese people.)
...clip...
Good luck, OP!
[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23235396
[2] http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=199587
[3] http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1900516
If you look at those sources, they exclude all people who weren't losing weight already prior to the surgery. So, if you would eliminate all individuals who didn't lose weight on a controlled diet, prior to tracking for the purposes of the study, I'm positive success rates would be about on par.
National Weight Control Registry shows results are similar to bariatric surgery for long term weight loss success when compared to non-bariatric surgery individuals (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10849578?dopt=Abstract).
Personally, and anecdotes aren't studies mind you, of the 4 people I know who have had bariatric surgery to lose weight, 3 of them have put all of the weight back on. The last person lost weight in the first year, then hasn't lost anymore, and is still obese.
Of the myriad individuals I know who merely tracked their intake, and added exercise to their day, all of them have kept it off for 3+ years, and most are now a healthy weight.
Also, a point to bear in mind in that surgery is inherently dangerous, especially so for an invasive procedure such as bariatric surgery. Bariatric surgery is an elective procedure, so only the best candidates are selected for it. So, if we would take the best possible candidates for non-surgical weight loss, and compare to the individuals who have had some form of bariatric surgery, I am positive the results would be far better for non-surgical, and the morbidity would be magnitudes lower for non-surgical intervention.
Of course, this study probably wont happen, because JAMA benefits from the selection bias in their studies.0 -
Meta analysis is to analysis what meta physics is to physics ?
Systematic cherry picking is also an issue.
It would indeed be a flaw in a meta-analysis if the authors "cherry-picked" their studies. It is the job of the peer reviewers to identify any systematic bias, and this should play a role as to whether the paper gets published.
I assume you will be providing us a review where you can demonstrate the "systematic cherry picking" in the studies shared. I look forward to hearing from you which studies were inappropriately excluded from the analyses.0 -
Meta analysis is to analysis what meta physics is to physics ?
Systematic cherry picking is also an issue.
It would indeed be a flaw in a meta-analysis if the authors "cherry-picked" their studies. It is the job of the peer reviewers to identify any systematic bias, and this should play a role as to whether the paper gets published.
I assume you will be providing us a review where you can demonstrate the "systematic cherry picking" in the studies shared. I look forward to hearing from you which studies were inappropriately excluded from the analyses.
There's a systemic bias in the selection of candidates for bariatric surgery, where only the best possible candidates get surgery are being compared to everyone who has attempted non-surgical methods.
ie, bariatric surgery candidates must demonstrate the ability to follow a controlled diet, prior to surgery even being performed.0 -
Someone close to me successfully went through surgery 10 years ago. (She remains at goal today; though that, in and of itself, proves nothing. Having gone through it at the time, I don't really agree that she had do demonstrate much more than a reasonable attempt at these things.
But even if what you say is true, that doesn't argue that the surgery cannot be helpful for the people to whom you refer as the "best candidates."
This is not to say that surgery is the answer for everybody; it wasn't for me. But I am not going to do anything but support people who make that choice.0 -
Unfortunately, we all tend to stereotype based on our own experiences. So my experience with WLS comes only through my friendship with a woman who developed a life threatening heart condition. She had to lose weight immediately to be an acceptable candidate for the heart surgery. She even went from Canada to the US for bariatric surgery and spent a fortune on it. Came back, lost lots of weight, had heart surgery, and now she is as overweight as she was before. Sad. Didnt learn bumpkiss.0
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Someone close to me successfully went through surgery 10 years ago. (She remains at goal today; though that, in and of itself, proves nothing. Having gone through it at the time, I don't really agree that she had do demonstrate much more than a reasonable attempt at these things.
But even if what you say is true, that doesn't argue that the surgery cannot be helpful for the people to whom you refer as the "best candidates."
This is not to say that surgery is the answer for everybody; it wasn't for me. But I am not going to do anything but support people who make that choice.
I'm not so sure it's helpful. When you weigh the risks against whatever minimal benefits come from it, seeing as the best of the best are the only ones who get it, and lose weight, often don't ever get to a healthy weight anyways, and compare it to those with non-surgical intervention who typically not just lose weight, but lose to a point of being in a healthy weight range.0
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