How to not upset people when you correct them.. Help please.
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majigurl
Posts: 660 Member
I had no idea which forum to put this in. I don't see this as a nutrional debate. move to better location if you see a better fit please 
I'm too blunt for my own good. I have NO finesse... I just lack this..
I tried to correct someone when they were trying to tell someone else that "trans fats isn't broken down the same as other healthy fats and that are then stored as fat." ( not verbatim, but close enough )
I had stated that it didn't matter what they ate, just as long as they were in their deficit, they would drop the weight. They were trying to correct me. ( And yes, I was trying to also make the point that healthier foods are always better for your overall health..) I was trying to make a point about coci.
I tried to tell them that no, that was false ( their comment on trans fats).. and they pretty much scowled at me and called me an "uninformed idiot". I checked out of the conversation at this point.....
Regardless... I'm SURE part of the problem was how I went around to tell them they were wrong. I don't get offended when I'm told I'm wrong. It's an opinion.. but others sometime take being told they are wrong as a person attack. (ugh)
How do you guys word things to not sound like you are attacking said people?
I'm looking for actual phrases I can use lol Yes, I am that clueless. I get I am messing up, I'm just not clear how to fix my wording to not come off as such a 'know it all' jerk. kwim?
I'm too blunt for my own good. I have NO finesse... I just lack this..
I tried to correct someone when they were trying to tell someone else that "trans fats isn't broken down the same as other healthy fats and that are then stored as fat." ( not verbatim, but close enough )
I had stated that it didn't matter what they ate, just as long as they were in their deficit, they would drop the weight. They were trying to correct me. ( And yes, I was trying to also make the point that healthier foods are always better for your overall health..) I was trying to make a point about coci.
I tried to tell them that no, that was false ( their comment on trans fats).. and they pretty much scowled at me and called me an "uninformed idiot". I checked out of the conversation at this point.....
Regardless... I'm SURE part of the problem was how I went around to tell them they were wrong. I don't get offended when I'm told I'm wrong. It's an opinion.. but others sometime take being told they are wrong as a person attack. (ugh)
How do you guys word things to not sound like you are attacking said people?
I'm looking for actual phrases I can use lol Yes, I am that clueless. I get I am messing up, I'm just not clear how to fix my wording to not come off as such a 'know it all' jerk. kwim?
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I am also a pretty direct person (much to my detriment at times), so I just try not to engage in conversations about nutrition/exercise with people I know don't hold the same views. It's fruitless and irritating.0
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I try to simply stick to the facts, stay calm and be rational.
If that upsets the other person that is their business, not mine.0 -
I ran in to this with a prickly supply person at work just this week. I asked for a two hole punch. She dropped off a three hole punch. I thanked her for the three hole, and asked if she would also find me a two hole punch? She delivered, and I'm still not sure if she noticed the mistake.
People are sensitive to demeanor, so if you come across as kind and helpful, they are more likely to cooperate. This can be lost over the internet as you don't get tone and expression.
I also keep in mind that the part of the brain that manages belief is the same part that tracks facts. Firm beliefs feel a lot like facts to the holder.
The Neural Correlates of Religious and Non-Religious Belief0 -
You are helping me think about this topic, so, brainstorming:
This works for me...
You might want to consider
While that has merit, perhaps....
Are you also aware that (this might be combative, though, since the person might think this is an affront to their knowledge.)
Wish these things would come out of my mouth first.
Don't be hard on yourself, just know who you are dealing with. Some people are so fixed into their opinion (see politics for a real lesson:-) that they don't want to consider anything else.0 -
You are helping me think about this topic, so, brainstorming:
This works for me...
You might want to consider
While that has merit, perhaps....
Are you also aware that (this might be combative, though, since the person might think this is an affront to their knowledge.)
Wish these things would come out of my mouth first.
Don't be hard on yourself, just know who you are dealing with. Some people are so fixed into their opinion (see politics for a real lesson:-) that they don't want to consider anything else.
Those are words I never use lol I don't link giving credit when it's not there.
This isn't *my fault* and I need to work on that. I can't be responsible for how others react, but I can try and make it less likely that they will respond negatively with how I word things.
I just don't work that way. Facts and information are not hand in hand with intelligence or self worth. If you don't know something doesn't not mean you are not intelligent, you just didn't know that bit of information.
I was googling ways to converse to not come off negative or confrontational. How you start the sentence, like you pointed out, is key in debates.
Thank you for helping! I appreciate it!
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I usually use the term "Just for sake, what if you found out that's really not how it works?" Many times they are then interested in what you have to say. If the response is, "I'm sure it's right.", then you move on. I got no time to converse with someone who isn't willing to hear another viewpoint.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I usually use the term "Just for sake, what if you found out that's really not how it works?" Many times they are then interested in what you have to say. If the response is, "I'm sure it's right.", then you move on. I got no time to converse with someone who isn't willing to hear another viewpoint.
Yes!! I "move on" often. I'm not there to teach people who aren't interested in hearing something else. Often I'll ask them where they got their information. "It's common knowledge" is a comment response lol.
I also try and take into account their source and what info they have. If I'm wrong, I want to bloody know! I don't want to be misinformed either.
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I usually give my sources and talk about studies and overall scientific understanding.
I also sometimes give them a "that may somehow in some way be almost true, but..."
ie. "while it may be true that ....., I would suggest prioritizing CICO for weight loss because you will not store fat if you are eating in a deficit regardless of the macro/micronutrient breakdown."
However, many people are unlikely to change their opinion regardless of how wrong they are. You can see social media comments arguing the answer to a math problem and people trying to teach the wrong ones order of operations and the people that are wrong are still just calling everyone else stupid- and that is on something that shouldn't be debatable...
So, sometimes you have to let people live in their ignorance. You can choose to be very knowledgeable and go about things in the correct manner, but sometimes it isn't enough.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO0qwl5k9R4
http://www.psfk.com/2012/07/kids-anti-smoking-campaign.html
When questions are used, rather than just telling people, defenses are down and they are more likely to listen.0 -
I think people tend to get defensive when someone speaks as though they are an authority on the subject without having any credentials to support that, because it comes across to others as being lectured by a self-declared expert rather than several people engaging in a mutually respectful discussion. It's very frustrating to be talking to another person about a topic, and in trying to explain your position or view, have them constantly shoot it down or disregard it as though they are an instructor and you're a student who needs their approval or needs to accept their view to pass. Not saying that you put off that vibe in any way or were doing that, but the social dynamics and relationships between the people communicating play a role in how we treat the information presented.
I think the key in the situation you described is to both question the validity of the information while presenting the information you have on the subject, but doing so in a way that acknowledges that you are also just sharing what you know. So for the example you gave, maybe saying something like, "wait, I always thought the deal with trans fats was that body blah blah blah….," and explain how you think it works.
By simply sharing your information and stating that this is what you think, the person is probably going to receive it better compared to a "no, that's wrong," especially in the presence of another person. Information comes from a lot of sources, and if the person considers the source of where they got their information to be a trusted source, someone who is not a trusted source (i.e. you) for this type of information declaring that it is wrong is going to be met with resistance. Especially if the shift went from the information being wrong to the person being wrong.
As you said, people can be wrong and it's not a reflection on them, but you also have to remember that the person may not be willfully ignorant on the subject and may have thought that they had done their due diligence. You want to discuss the topic in a way that challenges the information but does not leave the person feeling embarrassed or stupid for having incorrect information. And no, the other person in the scenario who called you an "uninformed idiot" did not do this well and might want to consider working on that.0 -
You could ask in a friendly tone why they think that, what their source is and then say that this and this study ( by respectable sources) that you read concluded differently and have they read that too since this topic interests them. Offer to lend them the book or give them the site address. Then I would drop it and move on. You don't have to get them to admit you are right immediately, just provide the information that they may not have known about or considered. If they don't want to look further than their source that is their problem at that point.
Don't focus on getting the person to change their mind right away or admit they are wrong with your correction. Just plant reasonable doubts and direct them to other information.0 -
I think people tend to get defensive when someone speaks as though they are an authority on the subject without having any credentials to support that, because it comes across to others as being lectured by a self-declared expert rather than several people engaging in a mutually respectful discussion. It's very frustrating to be talking to another person about a topic, and in trying to explain your position or view, have them constantly shoot it down or disregard it as though they are an instructor and you're a student who needs their approval or needs to accept their view to pass. Not saying that you put off that vibe in any way or were doing that, but the social dynamics and relationships between the people communicating play a role in how we treat the information presented.
I think the key in the situation you described is to both question the validity of the information while presenting the information you have on the subject, but doing so in a way that acknowledges that you are also just sharing what you know. So for the example you gave, maybe saying something like, "wait, I always thought the deal with trans fats was that body blah blah blah….," and explain how you think it works.
By simply sharing your information and stating that this is what you think, the person is probably going to receive it better compared to a "no, that's wrong," especially in the presence of another person. Information comes from a lot of sources, and if the person considers the source of where they got their information to be a trusted source, someone who is not a trusted source (i.e. you) for this type of information declaring that it is wrong is going to be met with resistance. Especially if the shift went from the information being wrong to the person being wrong.
As you said, people can be wrong and it's not a reflection on them, but you also have to remember that the person may not be willfully ignorant on the subject and may have thought that they had done their due diligence. You want to discuss the topic in a way that challenges the information but does not leave the person feeling embarrassed or stupid for having incorrect information. And no, the other person in the scenario who called you an "uninformed idiot" did not do this well and might want to consider working on that.
Great post. I also think it matters if the OPs opinion was invited or whether she effectively forced her opinion into the conversation which was taking place between two others.
I overhear many conversations in my gym, about nutrition or training methods, which are complete and utter cobblers, but it wouldn't occur to me to march up to someone and go "Well actually, what you just said is completely incorrect!". Life isn't a public forum after all.0 -
I had no idea which forum to put this in. I don't see this as a nutrional debate. move to better location if you see a better fit please
I'm too blunt for my own good. I have NO finesse... I just lack this..
I tried to correct someone when they were trying to tell someone else that "trans fats isn't broken down the same as other healthy fats and that are then stored as fat." ( not verbatim, but close enough )
I had stated that it didn't matter what they ate, just as long as they were in their deficit, they would drop the weight. They were trying to correct me. ( And yes, I was trying to also make the point that healthier foods are always better for your overall health..) I was trying to make a point about coci.
I tried to tell them that no, that was false ( their comment on trans fats).. and they pretty much scowled at me and called me an "uninformed idiot". I checked out of the conversation at this point.....
Regardless... I'm SURE part of the problem was how I went around to tell them they were wrong. I don't get offended when I'm told I'm wrong. It's an opinion.. but others sometime take being told they are wrong as a person attack. (ugh)
How do you guys word things to not sound like you are attacking said people?
I'm looking for actual phrases I can use lol Yes, I am that clueless. I get I am messing up, I'm just not clear how to fix my wording to not come off as such a 'know it all' jerk. kwim?
First, the debate itself mitgh have been the issue. Trans fat is actually not metabolised like any other fat and it is something one should not consume, regardless of trying to lose weight or not. It is one of these cases where calories are the least of the problems with this particular food choice. So, even if whomever you were debating with did not have or remember all the facts, he/she probably correctly remembered that this is something that cannot be consumed safely even if it fits daily calories? Maybe you were debating a detail (calories) irrelevant to the basic problem (health risks) related to this particular food?
In general, unless you were also calling the other person names, if they resorted to calling you an idiot, this is not something that has to do with your debating skills.
Other than quoting scientific research, like "I read an article on X or Y", I do not think there is much you can do to convince other people that what you are syaing in such debates is correct. You can also question their own sources, like "this is interesting, I thought the opposite, where did you read/hear this". But if the other person is passionate about what they are saying, letting the topic die might be the only way to avoid confrontation.
What happens when you are told you are on the wrong side during such a debate? What is it that convinces you the other person is right? Figuring out what arguments help you question your beliefs, might also help you figure out what arguments to use.0 -
Compliment sandwich - generally works well in social & business settings. The other thing to recognize is you don't always have to be right (not just you but me and everyone else) You always have to ask yourself - "at the end of the day, does being correct on this really matter that much?".
It's a tough one but if you are open to hearing what other people say, you will sort it out.
So compliment sandwich example:
"That's excellent info on trans fats! I haven't heard this before.
I have been working on just maintaining a deficit first in diet which I feel is more important for me at this time and then delve into the nutritional aspects. Too much too soon is hard!
Thanks again for the info!
...that's pretty cheese and kissy *kitten* but you get what I am throwing down.
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I'm just like you but I just keep my mouth shut and don't say anything.0
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I think people tend to get defensive when someone speaks as though they are an authority on the subject without having any credentials to support that, because it comes across to others as being lectured by a self-declared expert rather than several people engaging in a mutually respectful discussion. It's very frustrating to be talking to another person about a topic, and in trying to explain your position or view, have them constantly shoot it down or disregard it as though they are an instructor and you're a student who needs their approval or needs to accept their view to pass. Not saying that you put off that vibe in any way or were doing that, but the social dynamics and relationships between the people communicating play a role in how we treat the information presented.
I think the key in the situation you described is to both question the validity of the information while presenting the information you have on the subject, but doing so in a way that acknowledges that you are also just sharing what you know. So for the example you gave, maybe saying something like, "wait, I always thought the deal with trans fats was that body blah blah blah….," and explain how you think it works.
By simply sharing your information and stating that this is what you think, the person is probably going to receive it better compared to a "no, that's wrong," especially in the presence of another person. Information comes from a lot of sources, and if the person considers the source of where they got their information to be a trusted source, someone who is not a trusted source (i.e. you) for this type of information declaring that it is wrong is going to be met with resistance. Especially if the shift went from the information being wrong to the person being wrong.
As you said, people can be wrong and it's not a reflection on them, but you also have to remember that the person may not be willfully ignorant on the subject and may have thought that they had done their due diligence. You want to discuss the topic in a way that challenges the information but does not leave the person feeling embarrassed or stupid for having incorrect information. And no, the other person in the scenario who called you an "uninformed idiot" did not do this well and might want to consider working on that.
Great post. I also think it matters if the OPs opinion was invited or whether she effectively forced her opinion into the conversation which was taking place between two others.
I overhear many conversations in my gym, about nutrition or training methods, which are complete and utter cobblers, but it wouldn't occur to me to march up to someone and go "Well actually, what you just said is completely incorrect!". Life isn't a public forum after all.
Other said person put in their two cents. I was having a conversation with someone else and they interjected their views on fats. Which is whatever.. that's fine. But it was misguided information
Life ISN'T a public forum!! you are so right!!!
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MostlyWater wrote: »I'm just like you but I just keep my mouth shut and don't say anything.
This is what I do. I feel like if people are making statements like this, nothing I say is going to change their minds. Even if it's complete nonsense. When I'm having a more interactive discussion I do set it out rationally and back it up with fundamental facts that they usually don't know because they got their info from a scary click-bait article on Facebook or whatever (and make liberal use of the "compliment sandwich" mentioned earlier), but more often than not, I just nod and keep it to myself.0 -
MostlyWater wrote: »I'm just like you but I just keep my mouth shut and don't say anything.
I do this constantly because I'm socially awkward. I know this lol
I was in "talk mode" though and I was having a conversation with a friend that had asked me if fatty foods make people fat. The short answer is "no". The long answer was what I was trying to explain to her. She was starting to have fears of eating things like potato chips or fattier meats. I was trying to reassure her that they were fine, in moderation. I was trying to explain the benefit of healthier foods over only a junk food diet, but that even with a junk food only diet you could drop weight/maintain. This is when I was cut off to be told that trans fats WILL make you fat.
REALLY not what she needed to be told at all! Way to help fuel an ED
I don't like arguing though, so I stepped away once they called me names ( I'm too old and tired for that).
BUT.. with every situation, you have a responsibility to how it played out. I know my faults. I know I'm blunt and abrupt. I need to figure out key phrase to help with that. just being quiet, like I often do, isn't a viable solution. It's a Band-Aid solution. I need to learn how to speak without constantly offending people. Maybe practicing in front of a mirror? lol
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Shalynlink wrote: »Compliment sandwich - generally works well in social & business settings. The other thing to recognize is you don't always have to be right (not just you but me and everyone else) You always have to ask yourself - "at the end of the day, does being correct on this really matter that much?".
It's a tough one but if you are open to hearing what other people say, you will sort it out.
So compliment sandwich example:
"That's excellent info on trans fats! I haven't heard this before.
I have been working on just maintaining a deficit first in diet which I feel is more important for me at this time and then delve into the nutritional aspects. Too much too soon is hard!
Thanks again for the info!
...that's pretty cheese and kissy *kitten* but you get what I am throwing down.
I'm good at not being right. Even when I know I am lol Hence why I walked away from the "conversation".
Yes!! I USE " does this really matter" constantly!! it's why I don't fight. A friendship etc is pretty much always more important than a topic.
I will try the compliment sandwich more. I use this at work when I have to break bad news about a project or work efforts lol. was part of a training I took.. why I haven't started to implement it in my real life I don't know.. I think because I always find it to be almost condescending lol
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I usually give my sources and talk about studies and overall scientific understanding.
I also sometimes give them a "that may somehow in some way be almost true, but..."
ie. "while it may be true that ....., I would suggest prioritizing CICO for weight loss because you will not store fat if you are eating in a deficit regardless of the macro/micronutrient breakdown."
However, many people are unlikely to change their opinion regardless of how wrong they are. You can see social media comments arguing the answer to a math problem and people trying to teach the wrong ones order of operations and the people that are wrong are still just calling everyone else stupid- and that is on something that shouldn't be debatable...
So, sometimes you have to let people live in their ignorance. You can choose to be very knowledgeable and go about things in the correct manner, but sometimes it isn't enough.
LMAO at the math problem.
I have to giggle at that because those math problems pretty much often have both answers as being right depending on how you work it out/view it. Arguing over how right your answer is when both are, in fact, correct.
It's a really good point. I could view the other person as being correct in a nutritional point of view, even though the facts were inaccurate and misleading.. hmmmm
The info wasn't even for the person I had a conflict for, they were just trying to correct me with information that wasn't accurate. I don't mind being corrected... but with this one point, I was sure on. I wasn't refuting how trans fats are broken down.. I don't know enough about that, so in that they COULD be right.. most likely are right? I dunno, I didn't even have an opinion on that. lol
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