My take on refeeds
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Agree that leaner people need more frequent refeeds/ diet breaks but they also have a role for fatter people and those with a lot to lose or people dieting for extended periods.
Feedback - think you are focussing on a small niche so General Diet and Weight Loss maybe not a great place for this. Your use of "binge", "excuse" and "cheat" doesn't come across at all well, very judgemental.0 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Oh mighty low body fat people, what is a "refeed"? I don't think you mean what I think it means.
I always thought "refeed" was just a fancy term for cheat/eating at maintenance day.
Whatever it is, only people with low body fat deserve one.
Or at least that's how far I got before I was crushed by the wall of text.
Need*
I never said anything about deserve. I said it's not necessary if you're overweight as you still have body fat to lose.
So people at higher weight and/or above single-digit BF% don't ever suffer from lowered leptin levels and/or metabolic downregulation due to prolonged caloric deficits?
And FWIW, I agree that the OP was difficult to read.
Most of the time lowered leptin is a result of low body fat. Metabolic adaptation may be present, but that is when calories need to be reduced, not a structured refeed. I never said single digit body fat btw, but if you have someone starting at 35% bodyfat, and are in a prolonged deficit and still at 25%, they still have energy stores to diminish before they need to/ should incorporate a refeed. I'm all for bringing calories up to maintencase to enjoy yourself or even further or maybe have a cheat meal, but I put my take on a proper structured refeed.
You never stated *any* body fat range or specific number. What is the magical number below whence a person will benefit from a refeed?
Also, what's the difference between a "proper structured refeed" and a "refeed"?
Propriety and structure.0 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Oh mighty low body fat people, what is a "refeed"? I don't think you mean what I think it means.
I always thought "refeed" was just a fancy term for cheat/eating at maintenance day.
Whatever it is, only people with low body fat deserve one.
Or at least that's how far I got before I was crushed by the wall of text.
Need*
I never said anything about deserve. I said it's not necessary if you're overweight as you still have body fat to lose.
So people at higher weight and/or above single-digit BF% don't ever suffer from lowered leptin levels and/or metabolic downregulation due to prolonged caloric deficits?
And FWIW, I agree that the OP was difficult to read.
Most of the time lowered leptin is a result of low body fat. Metabolic adaptation may be present, but that is when calories need to be reduced, not a structured refeed. I never said single digit body fat btw, but if you have someone starting at 35% bodyfat, and are in a prolonged deficit and still at 25%, they still have energy stores to diminish before they need to/ should incorporate a refeed. I'm all for bringing calories up to maintencase to enjoy yourself or even further or maybe have a cheat meal, but I put my take on a proper structured refeed.
So what's the difference between a "refeed" and a "cheat day"? We high BF% people would like to know.0 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Oh mighty low body fat people, what is a "refeed"? I don't think you mean what I think it means.
I always thought "refeed" was just a fancy term for cheat/eating at maintenance day.
Whatever it is, only people with low body fat deserve one.
Or at least that's how far I got before I was crushed by the wall of text.
Need*
I never said anything about deserve. I said it's not necessary if you're overweight as you still have body fat to lose.
So people at higher weight and/or above single-digit BF% don't ever suffer from lowered leptin levels and/or metabolic downregulation due to prolonged caloric deficits?
And FWIW, I agree that the OP was difficult to read.
Most of the time lowered leptin is a result of low body fat. Metabolic adaptation may be present, but that is when calories need to be reduced, not a structured refeed. I never said single digit body fat btw, but if you have someone starting at 35% bodyfat, and are in a prolonged deficit and still at 25%, they still have energy stores to diminish before they need to/ should incorporate a refeed. I'm all for bringing calories up to maintencase to enjoy yourself or even further or maybe have a cheat meal, but I put my take on a proper structured refeed.
So what's the difference between a "refeed" and a "cheat day"? We high BF% people would like to know.
Refeed: reaching macro/ calorie goals usually pertaining to a low fat/ high carb day to increase leptin/ energy levels.
Cheat day: whatever the h*ll you want it to be. a cheat day to ME is not tracking/caring/ thinking about numbers or restriction. Enjoying myself. Not using a food scale or worrying about the macro composition of every meal.
You're also assuming I'm calling out higher bodyfat people? I just stated its not necessary at higher bodyfat levels as it is towards those cutting down to lean phase. 10...maybe 12% and under. No one has to listen to me, you can diet how you want, I did say MY take on the forum...so I just listed my stance.0 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Oh mighty low body fat people, what is a "refeed"? I don't think you mean what I think it means.
I always thought "refeed" was just a fancy term for cheat/eating at maintenance day.
Whatever it is, only people with low body fat deserve one.
Or at least that's how far I got before I was crushed by the wall of text.
Need*
I never said anything about deserve. I said it's not necessary if you're overweight as you still have body fat to lose.
So people at higher weight and/or above single-digit BF% don't ever suffer from lowered leptin levels and/or metabolic downregulation due to prolonged caloric deficits?
And FWIW, I agree that the OP was difficult to read.
Most of the time lowered leptin is a result of low body fat. Metabolic adaptation may be present, but that is when calories need to be reduced, not a structured refeed. I never said single digit body fat btw, but if you have someone starting at 35% bodyfat, and are in a prolonged deficit and still at 25%, they still have energy stores to diminish before they need to/ should incorporate a refeed. I'm all for bringing calories up to maintencase to enjoy yourself or even further or maybe have a cheat meal, but I put my take on a proper structured refeed.
So what's the difference between a "refeed" and a "cheat day"? We high BF% people would like to know.
Refeed: reaching macro/ calorie goals usually pertaining to a low fat/ high carb day to increase leptin/ energy levels.
Cheat day: whatever the h*ll you want it to be. a cheat day to ME is not tracking/caring/ thinking about numbers or restriction. Enjoying myself. Not using a food scale or worrying about the macro composition of every meal.
You're also assuming I'm calling out higher bodyfat people? I just stated its not necessary at higher bodyfat levels as it is towards those cutting down to lean phase. 10...maybe 12% and under. No one has to listen to me, you can diet how you want, I did say MY take on the forum...so I just listed my stance.
So will a cheat day (using your definition) not increase leptin/energy levels?0 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »If you have any other questions, you can ask me or leave a comment(:
What's your take on paragraphs?
Probably a little different if this was a forum on writing/ english/ literature...etc. good thing it's a fitness forum and not a test.... I don't remember hearing of a paragraph in a gym or in my food...
So readability is very low on your priority list when composing a post you want people to read.....unless you're specifically posting in writing/literature forums.
Got it and I Appreciate your honest answer. Carry on.
Readability is a priority.....on the other hand proper format and structure isn't my focus on a post where I am trying to help people. The fact some people have the disrespect to comment on someone's format on a fitness related post is kind of ridiculous. I'm sorry if I offended you for not having perfect format and structure. It's a forum post....if you have an negative statement on my topic or varying view, then go ahead and post it, but if you're going to ridicule my format....then just keep it to yourself instead of the arrogance/ rudeness?
Well there's the fact that I didn't actually read your whole post initially because it may actually hurt me to hate so many issues at once. I may not be the only one.
Your post is nice and all, but if you want to be taken seriously you write properly and format your information in an appropriate way. You lashing out rather than accepting, "yep, I may be trying to present intelligent information but it looks like a very unintelligent person wrote it!" isn't a great quality either.
If you want to be taken seriously and intelligently, organize your information. Being all over the place made your post very confusing and I'd have to go back and take notes to be able to walk away with any use able information. It honestly made me sit and wonder "What makes this person qualified to be giving out any kind of information at all?"
Organization is a friend not a foe.
I really can't praise white space enough. I feel like in the age of twitter and short attention spans, it's more important than ever.
I almost always scroll past walls of text.0 -
OP, you should be happy to know the overlord of integrity, virtue and medical knowledge <<cough, cough>> (sorry that was a bit difficult to swallow) Dr. Oz agrees with you:
http://www.doctoroz.com/article/leptin-resistance-fact-sheet0 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Oh mighty low body fat people, what is a "refeed"? I don't think you mean what I think it means.
I always thought "refeed" was just a fancy term for cheat/eating at maintenance day.
Whatever it is, only people with low body fat deserve one.
Or at least that's how far I got before I was crushed by the wall of text.
Need*
I never said anything about deserve. I said it's not necessary if you're overweight as you still have body fat to lose.
So people at higher weight and/or above single-digit BF% don't ever suffer from lowered leptin levels and/or metabolic downregulation due to prolonged caloric deficits?
And FWIW, I agree that the OP was difficult to read.
Most of the time lowered leptin is a result of low body fat. Metabolic adaptation may be present, but that is when calories need to be reduced, not a structured refeed. I never said single digit body fat btw, but if you have someone starting at 35% bodyfat, and are in a prolonged deficit and still at 25%, they still have energy stores to diminish before they need to/ should incorporate a refeed. I'm all for bringing calories up to maintencase to enjoy yourself or even further or maybe have a cheat meal, but I put my take on a proper structured refeed.
So what's the difference between a "refeed" and a "cheat day"? We high BF% people would like to know.
Refeed: reaching macro/ calorie goals usually pertaining to a low fat/ high carb day to increase leptin/ energy levels.
Cheat day: whatever the h*ll you want it to be. a cheat day to ME is not tracking/caring/ thinking about numbers or restriction. Enjoying myself. Not using a food scale or worrying about the macro composition of every meal.
You're also assuming I'm calling out higher bodyfat people? I just stated its not necessary at higher bodyfat levels as it is towards those cutting down to lean phase. 10...maybe 12% and under. No one has to listen to me, you can diet how you want, I did say MY take on the forum...so I just listed my stance.
So will a cheat day (using your definition) not increase leptin/energy levels?
It can, but focusing and knowing you're going higher carb, lower fat, you will have a greater effect on leptin0 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Oh mighty low body fat people, what is a "refeed"? I don't think you mean what I think it means.
I always thought "refeed" was just a fancy term for cheat/eating at maintenance day.
Whatever it is, only people with low body fat deserve one.
Or at least that's how far I got before I was crushed by the wall of text.
Need*
I never said anything about deserve. I said it's not necessary if you're overweight as you still have body fat to lose.
So people at higher weight and/or above single-digit BF% don't ever suffer from lowered leptin levels and/or metabolic downregulation due to prolonged caloric deficits?
And FWIW, I agree that the OP was difficult to read.
Most of the time lowered leptin is a result of low body fat. Metabolic adaptation may be present, but that is when calories need to be reduced, not a structured refeed. I never said single digit body fat btw, but if you have someone starting at 35% bodyfat, and are in a prolonged deficit and still at 25%, they still have energy stores to diminish before they need to/ should incorporate a refeed. I'm all for bringing calories up to maintencase to enjoy yourself or even further or maybe have a cheat meal, but I put my take on a proper structured refeed.
So what's the difference between a "refeed" and a "cheat day"? We high BF% people would like to know.
Refeed: reaching macro/ calorie goals usually pertaining to a low fat/ high carb day to increase leptin/ energy levels.
Cheat day: whatever the h*ll you want it to be. a cheat day to ME is not tracking/caring/ thinking about numbers or restriction. Enjoying myself. Not using a food scale or worrying about the macro composition of every meal.
You're also assuming I'm calling out higher bodyfat people? I just stated its not necessary at higher bodyfat levels as it is towards those cutting down to lean phase. 10...maybe 12% and under. No one has to listen to me, you can diet how you want, I did say MY take on the forum...so I just listed my stance.
So will a cheat day (using your definition) not increase leptin/energy levels?
It can, but focusing and knowing you're going higher carb, lower fat, you will have a greater effect on leptin
Focusing and knowing while eating will have a greater effect on leptin than if I'm not focusing and knowing while eating?
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A 19 year old who writes like an 11 year old. Surely this is an well thought-out and informative post. I'll just go ahead and ...oh no!
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pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Oh mighty low body fat people, what is a "refeed"? I don't think you mean what I think it means.
I always thought "refeed" was just a fancy term for cheat/eating at maintenance day.
Whatever it is, only people with low body fat deserve one.
Or at least that's how far I got before I was crushed by the wall of text.
Need*
I never said anything about deserve. I said it's not necessary if you're overweight as you still have body fat to lose.
So people at higher weight and/or above single-digit BF% don't ever suffer from lowered leptin levels and/or metabolic downregulation due to prolonged caloric deficits?
And FWIW, I agree that the OP was difficult to read.
Most of the time lowered leptin is a result of low body fat. Metabolic adaptation may be present, but that is when calories need to be reduced, not a structured refeed. I never said single digit body fat btw, but if you have someone starting at 35% bodyfat, and are in a prolonged deficit and still at 25%, they still have energy stores to diminish before they need to/ should incorporate a refeed. I'm all for bringing calories up to maintencase to enjoy yourself or even further or maybe have a cheat meal, but I put my take on a proper structured refeed.
So what's the difference between a "refeed" and a "cheat day"? We high BF% people would like to know.
Refeed: reaching macro/ calorie goals usually pertaining to a low fat/ high carb day to increase leptin/ energy levels.
Cheat day: whatever the h*ll you want it to be. a cheat day to ME is not tracking/caring/ thinking about numbers or restriction. Enjoying myself. Not using a food scale or worrying about the macro composition of every meal.
You're also assuming I'm calling out higher bodyfat people? I just stated its not necessary at higher bodyfat levels as it is towards those cutting down to lean phase. 10...maybe 12% and under. No one has to listen to me, you can diet how you want, I did say MY take on the forum...so I just listed my stance.
You said higher BF% people don't need "refeeds", so I guess that's calling us out.
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pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Oh mighty low body fat people, what is a "refeed"? I don't think you mean what I think it means.
I always thought "refeed" was just a fancy term for cheat/eating at maintenance day.
Whatever it is, only people with low body fat deserve one.
Or at least that's how far I got before I was crushed by the wall of text.
Need*
I never said anything about deserve. I said it's not necessary if you're overweight as you still have body fat to lose.
So people at higher weight and/or above single-digit BF% don't ever suffer from lowered leptin levels and/or metabolic downregulation due to prolonged caloric deficits?
And FWIW, I agree that the OP was difficult to read.
Most of the time lowered leptin is a result of low body fat. Metabolic adaptation may be present, but that is when calories need to be reduced, not a structured refeed. I never said single digit body fat btw, but if you have someone starting at 35% bodyfat, and are in a prolonged deficit and still at 25%, they still have energy stores to diminish before they need to/ should incorporate a refeed. I'm all for bringing calories up to maintencase to enjoy yourself or even further or maybe have a cheat meal, but I put my take on a proper structured refeed.
So what's the difference between a "refeed" and a "cheat day"? We high BF% people would like to know.
Refeed: reaching macro/ calorie goals usually pertaining to a low fat/ high carb day to increase leptin/ energy levels.
Cheat day: whatever the h*ll you want it to be. a cheat day to ME is not tracking/caring/ thinking about numbers or restriction. Enjoying myself. Not using a food scale or worrying about the macro composition of every meal.
You're also assuming I'm calling out higher bodyfat people? I just stated its not necessary at higher bodyfat levels as it is towards those cutting down to lean phase. 10...maybe 12% and under. No one has to listen to me, you can diet how you want, I did say MY take on the forum...so I just listed my stance.
So will a cheat day (using your definition) not increase leptin/energy levels?
It can, but focusing and knowing you're going higher carb, lower fat, you will have a greater effect on leptin
In your experience, what how far off from this idealized macro profile does the average person's cheat day land? Far enough from the mythical ideal to make a substantive difference in progress? Enough of a difference to offset the person's joy of eating their favorite things?
My N=1. My cheat day typically involves Chicago deep dish pizza for lunch after steak and pancakes for breakfast. It tends to come pretty close to the macros I'm shooting for, without any focusing and knowing.0 -
Thanks for the topic, OP. Refeeds have always perplexed me a bit. I get the utility of extra carbs to replenish glycogen stores, but I thought leptin levels change slowly, over the course of several days, so that one high carb day wouldn't increase leptin appreciably. I'm missing information, can't piece it together. Interested in learning more.0
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^^ thx0
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Man, so many people with thier feelings hurt over his experience and understanding of a diet concept.
In nutrition and diet there will be a bunch of ideas, read them, consider if it can help you, thank the contributer for putting them selves out there and trying to help and move on.
If you are having trouble losing fat I hear cutting out whine helps.
Thank you for sharing your experience with refeeding. I found it informative.0 -
CalvinBardin wrote: »Man, so many people with thier feelings hurt over his experience and understanding of a diet concept.
In nutrition and diet there will be a bunch of ideas, read them, consider if it can help you, thank the contributer for putting them selves out there and trying to help and move on.
If you are having trouble losing fat I hear cutting out whine helps.
Thank you for sharing your experience with refeeding. I found it informative.
Welcome to the forums and thank you for the lesson in foruming.0 -
I've not really looked into what refeeds are, but then I don't gym. They sound like something you'd need if you'd been eating at a really high deficit and were starving.
I do find I have a crazy day every 3-4 weeks though where I just can't keep my hands off the bread/pasta/potatoes, a real almost insatiable hunger that takes me a few hundred over. I go with it and usually find myself a couple of pounds lighter the next morning and the ravenous hunger gone for another few weeks.
Maybe thats my body's way of refeeding me, don't think I'd plan to eat extra though if I wasn't hungry for it but I do have (what feels to me) a pretty generous calories allowance.0 -
Thanks for the topic, OP. Refeeds have always perplexed me a bit. I get the utility of extra carbs to replenish glycogen stores, but I thought leptin levels change slowly, over the course of several days, so that one high carb day wouldn't increase leptin appreciably. I'm missing information, can't piece it together. Interested in learning more.
That is my understanding also.
I just skimmed that BB.com article and I don't think it addresses the time taken to restore leptin to normal or near normal (will read it properly later though) but I'm sure I read an article a couple of weeks back (possibly Layne Norton?) which stated that to restore leptin levels you would need to return to maintainance levels for approx 1 week. That would indicate that refeed days/meals are more of benefit in terms of psychological and glycogen load.0 -
I agree with the idea that, for the obese dieting down to normal levels of BF, refeeds are not going to be a useful strategy until that person gets close to normal BF.
IMHO this is primarily because in the early days of fat loss, consistency and adherence of of the greatest importance and the concept of refeeds can dilute that message (as well as adding in a whole heap of further variables which can upset the beginner - such as a 4lb gain on scales because of in transit food and increased water retention).0
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