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The Impact of Our Subconscious Thoughts On Our Health
GaleHawkins
Posts: 8,160 Member
in Debate Club
blog.mindvalleyacademy.com/alternative-healing/scientist-show-subconscious-thoughts-can-cause-specific-molecular-changes-genes
Science Now Says That Your Subconscious Thoughts And Beliefs Can Actually Cause Molecular Changes In Your Genes
The research behind this article.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039194/pdf/nihms542085.pdf
Science Now Says That Your Subconscious Thoughts And Beliefs Can Actually Cause Molecular Changes In Your Genes
The research behind this article.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039194/pdf/nihms542085.pdf
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Replies
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... Energy Healer?0
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The Woobecon. You've crossed it.0
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FunkyTobias wrote: »The Woobecon. You've crossed it.
Is that anything like the Wobenzym systemic enzyme product.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »The Woobecon. You've crossed it.
Is that anything like the Wobenzym systemic enzyme product.
Yes. Insofar as they are both utter nonsense with no basis in science.
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FunkyTobias wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »The Woobecon. You've crossed it.
Is that anything like the Wobenzym systemic enzyme product.
Yes. Insofar as they are both utter nonsense with no basis in science.
So you do not see epigenetics/genetics as science? Do you think humans are programmed and hope, love and charity can have not positive impact on yourself and others?0 -
The linked article has absolutely nothing to do with epigenetics.0
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FunkyTobias wrote: »The Woobecon. You've crossed it.
So much crystal power I swear I heard "My life for Aiur", and "you must construct additional pylons".0 -
It wouldn't be the first science based study that gives some weight to the human though process and ways to help change it being believed to have physical impacts.
I'm sure those that mock it have studies that show this not to be the case?0 -
robertw486 wrote: »It wouldn't be the first science based study that gives some weight to the human though process and ways to help change it being believed to have physical impacts.
I'm sure those that mock it have studies that show this not to be the case?
This^^^^^
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FunkyTobias wrote: »The Woobecon. You've crossed it.
So much crystal power I swear I heard "My life for Aiur", and "you must construct additional pylons".
There is no Dana. Only Zuul0 -
0
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FunkyTobias wrote: »The Woobecon. You've crossed it.
So much crystal power I swear I heard "My life for Aiur", and "you must construct additional pylons".
As to the OP, the research article essentially saw that meditation decreases stress. The reduction in stress has effects on expression levels of different markers including cortisol. It's been known for years, they're more showing the mechanism.
I don't think the article says what you think it says.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »blog.mindvalleyacademy.com/alternative-healing/scientist-show-subconscious-thoughts-can-cause-specific-molecular-changes-genes
Science Now Says That Your Subconscious Thoughts And Beliefs Can Actually Cause Molecular Changes In Your Genes
The research behind this article.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039194/pdf/nihms542085.pdf
The original researchers' use of the term epigentics for this kind of research is considered a contested form of it. Yes, they the researchers do have some evidence of altering the rate of gene expression in certain cells pending meditation activity - say it that way is not controversial. The preferred, uncontested version of epigenetics involves actual heredity - as these researchers are not deterimining if mediators have children with less inflammatory stress, using epigenetics to describe it is not the cleanest term to use.
I will say that in rodents, there are studies that show a male's increased stress profile can be inherited epigenetically down to the grandchild level. Basically, stress a female rodent out by forcing him to go into well lit areas to obtain food, give him a little less stressed time with a female rodent, eventually a grandchild generation appears, and even though they may not be stress, nor their mother or grandmother stressed, these rodents have hyper stress responses like grandpa. I don't think anyone's tried teaching them to meditate yet though. Maybe they'll sit in seiza for hours if offered a little bit of coconut oil coffee?0 -
robertw486 wrote: »It wouldn't be the first science based study that gives some weight to the human though process and ways to help change it being believed to have physical impacts.
I'm sure those that mock it have studies that show this not to be the case?
The thing being mocked is not the study on which this is tenuously based, but the wacky article designed to get gullible fools to click on--and purchase--the conveniently linked "Unlimited Abundance" program for the new low, low price of NOT $1099, but the new discounted price of JUST!!! $297, or--for those who are particularly cash strapped--two low payments of $159 each. With this exciting, low-priced program, you will be able to overcome Abundance Blockers and awaken, among other things, your "money intuition" which will then allow you to rake in the cash!!!! The many satisfied testimonials demonstrate that the program works. /sarc, obviously.
Rather than studies, I think a more appropriate response is a litany of articles telling the sad story of financial predation and plundering of the undiscerning elderly and others who are not able to smell out a scam. Sickening.0 -
telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12205847/Mental-illness-mostly-caused-by-life-events-not-genetics-argue-psychologists.html
This article is of interest to me because indirectly it opens the door to better appreciate the possible interplay of genetics and environment through epigenetics.
We understand that obesity can have a genetic relationship in some cases.
We read only 5% of cancer has a direct traceable link to a genetic cause.
As the article in my take makes a case research $$$ spent on finding the genetic cause of mental illness or cancer may be kind of like pissing into wind expression. Short term one feels better doing it but long term results may be a sticky and smelly mess.
There is no disagreement that financially stable people are less obese and live longer.
The most exciting aspect in my view of this article is we are NOT victims of our genes. It does appear that our environment can and does have a lot of influence on how our genes express themselves because they are under the control of our minds more than we realized.
As most of us into research and/or reading research the concept of Placebo and Nocebo effects always puzzled me. Finally the study of Epigenetics seems to be shedding some light on how both effects are mentally controlled.
@ronjsteele1 and @robertw486 the following article may be of interest called: Placebo Vs. Nocebo Effect: When your mind makes you sick by James Hubbard, M.D., M.P.H.
familydoctormag.com/blog/2008/09/placebo-vs-nocebo-effect-when-your-mind-makes-you-sick/
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GaleHawkins wrote: »telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12205847/Mental-illness-mostly-caused-by-life-events-not-genetics-argue-psychologists.html
This article is of interest to me because indirectly it opens the door to better appreciate the possible interplay of genetics and environment through epigenetics.
We understand that obesity can have a genetic relationship in some cases.
We read only 5% of cancer has a direct traceable link to a genetic cause.
As the article in my take makes a case research $$$ spent on finding the genetic cause of mental illness or cancer may be kind of like pissing into wind expression. Short term one feels better doing it but long term results may be a sticky and smelly mess.
There is no disagreement that financially stable people are less obese and live longer.
The most exciting aspect in my view of this article is we are NOT victims of our genes. It does appear that our environment can and does have a lot of influence on how our genes express themselves because they are under the control of our minds more than we realized.
As most of us into research and/or reading research the concept of Placebo and Nocebo effects always puzzled me. Finally the study of Epigenetics seems to be shedding some light on how both effects are mentally controlled.
@ronjsteele1 and @robertw486 the following article may be of interest called: Placebo Vs. Nocebo Effect: When your mind makes you sick by James Hubbard, M.D., M.P.H.
familydoctormag.com/blog/2008/09/placebo-vs-nocebo-effect-when-your-mind-makes-you-sick/
Really not how epigenetics works. There are definitely genes that influence the rate of depression, cancer, and a host of other issues. The environment will set the results within those genetic limitations. However, for anything to be heritable, even epigenetically, it must first be genetic. You cannot inherit epigenetic genes turned on for genes you don't have. Saying you can't have genes for depression because it is epigenetics is like saying you can't inherit green eyes, your ancestors or now you could just have tried being green eyer and you'd have them instead of those common brown eyes. Not at all how it works.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »blog.mindvalleyacademy.com/alternative-healing/scientist-show-subconscious-thoughts-can-cause-specific-molecular-changes-genes
Science Now Says That Your Subconscious Thoughts And Beliefs Can Actually Cause Molecular Changes In Your Genes
The research behind this article.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039194/pdf/nihms542085.pdf
The original researchers' use of the term epigentics for this kind of research is considered a contested form of it. Yes, they the researchers do have some evidence of altering the rate of gene expression in certain cells pending meditation activity - say it that way is not controversial. The preferred, uncontested version of epigenetics involves actual heredity - as these researchers are not deterimining if mediators have children with less inflammatory stress, using epigenetics to describe it is not the cleanest term to use.
I will say that in rodents, there are studies that show a male's increased stress profile can be inherited epigenetically down to the grandchild level. Basically, stress a female rodent out by forcing him to go into well lit areas to obtain food, give him a little less stressed time with a female rodent, eventually a grandchild generation appears, and even though they may not be stress, nor their mother or grandmother stressed, these rodents have hyper stress responses like grandpa. I don't think anyone's tried teaching them to meditate yet though. Maybe they'll sit in seiza for hours if offered a little bit of coconut oil coffee?
Honestly, that debate is pretty much over in most medical research fields, judging by the frequent use of the term to refer to pretty much any genome modification that alters transcription. Heritability is not required anymore.
There may be some specific fields that are more precise with their usage.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12205847/Mental-illness-mostly-caused-by-life-events-not-genetics-argue-psychologists.html
This article is of interest to me because indirectly it opens the door to better appreciate the possible interplay of genetics and environment through epigenetics.
We understand that obesity can have a genetic relationship in some cases.
We read only 5% of cancer has a direct traceable link to a genetic cause.
As the article in my take makes a case research $$$ spent on finding the genetic cause of mental illness or cancer may be kind of like pissing into wind expression. Short term one feels better doing it but long term results may be a sticky and smelly mess.
There is no disagreement that financially stable people are less obese and live longer.
The most exciting aspect in my view of this article is we are NOT victims of our genes. It does appear that our environment can and does have a lot of influence on how our genes express themselves because they are under the control of our minds more than we realized.
As most of us into research and/or reading research the concept of Placebo and Nocebo effects always puzzled me. Finally the study of Epigenetics seems to be shedding some light on how both effects are mentally controlled.
@ronjsteele1 and @robertw486 the following article may be of interest called: Placebo Vs. Nocebo Effect: When your mind makes you sick by James Hubbard, M.D., M.P.H.
familydoctormag.com/blog/2008/09/placebo-vs-nocebo-effect-when-your-mind-makes-you-sick/
But that doesn't mean what you're implying it means.
That means that only 5% of cancer cases have inherited known mutations in genes that result in genome instability. The instability causes the genome to more easily accumulate other mutations that result in cancer.
That percentage doesn't indicate how many inherited mutations resulting in genome instability, but aren't known to as of yet. If you think we are anywhere close to characterizing and fully functionally annotating the human genome, and the cumulative effects of SNPs, you're mistaken. We've found mutations that are clearly deleterious that occur in genes required for certain pathways to function. The low-hanging fruit.
We've not characterized combinations of SNPs that together are deleterious, but on their own are not. We've not characterized SNPs that slightly change the function of a gene but don't cause a significant phenotype unless found in combination with other similarly mutated genes in the pathway. We've not characterized diseases where the cause can be mutations in any one of multiple genes - possibly from different pathways. Etc, ad nauseum. These things have been characterized in microbes, because you have the power to do those kinds of analyses. In humans, we don't.
ETA: Sorry for the long delay, emergency at work. Should add of course there are epigenetic causes as well.0 -
I don't characterize it as the subconscious, however it is factually true that the mind is not separate from the body, and that our emotions affect the health of our entire bodies, through the hypothalamus, for example. The hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, aka "stress response," has a particularly profound effect on mental and physical health.0
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FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »The Woobecon. You've crossed it.
So much crystal power I swear I heard "My life for Aiur", and "you must construct additional pylons".
There is no Dana. Only Zuul
I am the keymaster.....are you the gatekeeper?0
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