Paleo diet: honest debate
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Wait voicing my personal opinion of how I deal with relative who's has ADHD (not their fault) and NOT on medication is negative? Tell you what, he's 220lbs and have him come up and slap you hard on the back a few times. You'll understand what I mean after a few minutes.lithezebra wrote: »
Not according to the CDC.robs_ready wrote: »myheartsabattleground wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
No, adhd is a 'behavioral' disorder not a 'mental' illness or 'syndrome', most individuals with adhd grow out of it as adults.
And I agree with them since I have a relative who's had it and still has it at 40 years old. Without medication, he's hard to deal with.However, children with ADHD do not just grow out of these behaviors. The symptoms continue and can cause difficulty at school, at home, or with friends.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/facts.html
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That kind of attitude doesn't befit a trainer. It's needlessly negative, and beyond the scope of your training.
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I don't know why people keep insisting that paleo is similar to keto or HFLC. Paleo is generally neutral on the amount of carbs you consume. Some (like Sisson, who has his own "primal" thing anyway) are generally pro lower carbs, but many are not. Robb Wolf has more a claim to speak for the paleo mainstream than Sisson given his past work with Loren Cordain, and here's his view on paleo and carbs: http://robbwolf.com/2014/12/04/using-evolution-and-exercise-physiology-to-customize-your-carb-intake/
Wolf's take is pretty much what's common among the CFers I know (where, of course, paleo is pretty common). Even with paleo challenges (and yes, I did one once), they were really pushing getting in carbs around workouts and not going too low. Of course, many people are going to cut down on carbs merely because they cut out sweets (although that cuts fat too for most) and of course grains. But there are other really carb-y options, like the super popular sweet potato, the plantain, and even the potato (which seems to be normally accepted, even the W30 people did a turn around).0 -
Because it's much closer to keto/LC than other diets. Since carbs are basically sugars, paleo (that I know of) keeps them down to a minimum.lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't know why people keep insisting that paleo is similar to keto or HFLC. Paleo is generally neutral on the amount of carbs you consume. Some (like Sisson, who has his own "primal" thing anyway) are generally pro lower carbs, but many are not. Robb Wolf has more a claim to speak for the paleo mainstream than Sisson given his past work with Loren Cordain, and here's his view on paleo and carbs: http://robbwolf.com/2014/12/04/using-evolution-and-exercise-physiology-to-customize-your-carb-intake/
Wolf's take is pretty much what's common among the CFers I know (where, of course, paleo is pretty common). Even with paleo challenges (and yes, I did one once), they were really pushing getting in carbs around workouts and not going too low. Of course, many people are going to cut down on carbs merely because they cut out sweets (although that cuts fat too for most) and of course grains. But there are other really carb-y options, like the super popular sweet potato, the plantain, and even the potato (which seems to be normally accepted, even the W30 people did a turn around).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Not according to the CDC.robs_ready wrote: »myheartsabattleground wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
No, adhd is a 'behavioral' disorder not a 'mental' illness or 'syndrome', most individuals with adhd grow out of it as adults.
And I agree with them since I have a relative who's had it and still has it at 40 years old. Without medication, he's hard to deal with.However, children with ADHD do not just grow out of these behaviors. The symptoms continue and can cause difficulty at school, at home, or with friends.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/facts.html
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Not according to the CDC.robs_ready wrote: »myheartsabattleground wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
No, adhd is a 'behavioral' disorder not a 'mental' illness or 'syndrome', most individuals with adhd grow out of it as adults.
And I agree with them since I have a relative who's had it and still has it at 40 years old. Without medication, he's hard to deal with.However, children with ADHD do not just grow out of these behaviors. The symptoms continue and can cause difficulty at school, at home, or with friends.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/facts.html
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The UK has the DSM which labels it as a cognitive behavioral disorder, that's not to say it's not real but adhd is a condition that can be managed effectively.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't know why people keep insisting that paleo is similar to keto or HFLC. Paleo is generally neutral on the amount of carbs you consume. Some (like Sisson, who has his own "primal" thing anyway) are generally pro lower carbs, but many are not. Robb Wolf has more a claim to speak for the paleo mainstream than Sisson given his past work with Loren Cordain, and here's his view on paleo and carbs: http://robbwolf.com/2014/12/04/using-evolution-and-exercise-physiology-to-customize-your-carb-intake/
Wolf's take is pretty much what's common among the CFers I know (where, of course, paleo is pretty common). Even with paleo challenges (and yes, I did one once), they were really pushing getting in carbs around workouts and not going too low. Of course, many people are going to cut down on carbs merely because they cut out sweets (although that cuts fat too for most) and of course grains. But there are other really carb-y options, like the super popular sweet potato, the plantain, and even the potato (which seems to be normally accepted, even the W30 people did a turn around).
It's simply a matter of fact that the diet of ketoers/low-carbers look "paleoish" (or lacto-paleoish). So the two communities are close and somewhat influence each other (you see for instance paleo dieters into the bulletproof coffe thing, that has no rationale whatsoever on a paleolithic diet).0 -
lithezebra wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.
What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?
It was more to do with milk (the mineral concern). But calcium can be acquired from other sources.
Maybe paleo is the wrong word, I just think the diet mimics what I'm trying to achieve.
You can get calcium from marrow or bone broth if you want to be strict, and also from leafy greens and nori. You can also be less strict and still have dairy. It's your diet, and being as paleolithic as possible doesn't have to be your goal.
Calcium in nori? I've eaten loads of it over the years and the packaging always lists 0 calcium.
ETA: I found some online listing as high as 2% per serving. Even at that level it's hardly a good source. Seems to me it would be better to consume dairy absent a specific allergy or other diagnosed issue with dairy. The long-term negative effects of too little calcium aren't worth the fun of a fad diet.
Eat some frickin bone marrow then. People who can't have dairy manage to get their calcium, and the real issue is how well you absorb it, so get your D.
Wrong again. Plenty of calcium in bone but very little in bone marrow. Osteoporosis isn't a joke and these diets are inviting it.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't know why people keep insisting that paleo is similar to keto or HFLC. Paleo is generally neutral on the amount of carbs you consume. Some (like Sisson, who has his own "primal" thing anyway) are generally pro lower carbs, but many are not. Robb Wolf has more a claim to speak for the paleo mainstream than Sisson given his past work with Loren Cordain, and here's his view on paleo and carbs: http://robbwolf.com/2014/12/04/using-evolution-and-exercise-physiology-to-customize-your-carb-intake/
Wolf's take is pretty much what's common among the CFers I know (where, of course, paleo is pretty common). Even with paleo challenges (and yes, I did one once), they were really pushing getting in carbs around workouts and not going too low. Of course, many people are going to cut down on carbs merely because they cut out sweets (although that cuts fat too for most) and of course grains. But there are other really carb-y options, like the super popular sweet potato, the plantain, and even the potato (which seems to be normally accepted, even the W30 people did a turn around).
It's simply a matter of fact that the diet of ketoers/low-carbers look "paleoish" (or lacto-paleoish). So the two communities are close and somewhat influence each other (you see for instance paleo dieters into the bulletproof coffe thing, that has no rationale whatsoever on a paleolithic diet).
It really depends. Like I said, most of the paleo proponents I know are CFers, and don't eat low carb or affiliate with those groups. Most of the low carb dieters I've known did Atkins, weren't interested in paleo at all (either didn't know what it was or thought it was a weird low carb thing) and had nothing against processed foods, no focus on sourcing of meat or eating the whole animal, and no particular interest in sports nutrition.
Agree with you that lots of paleo followers (especially the bloggers and such more than people I've known offline) are weirdly into the bulletproof coffee--I assume there's some overlap between following certain paleo gurus, bloggers, and podcasters and that awful Asprey person, as I see he is on many of their podcasts and vice versa. I agree it's a silly thing to promote as paleo.
Anyway, I agree the online presence/media for the two cross-pollinate somewhat (even those, like Wolf, who are trying to point out that paleo should not be considered a low carb diet, and some others like Sarah Ballentyne who have been quite critical of keto diets).0 -
There are times I cant control what I am being served, think easter dinner at mom's, and dont stress about it.
Heh, my Easter dinner was paleo-compliant, with no effort to make it so -- lamb spareribs, new potatoes (I know some consider potatoes questionable, but most seem to permit them), asparagus, fennel, and brussels. I'd normally have deviled eggs (which could be made compliant, although paleo people wouldn't make mayo, I can't imagine--er, the real ones I mean, but they wouldn't make the stuff we eat period), but was too lazy to do that for a small gathering this year.
Of course, then I had dessert, which wasn't (although it was largely based on rhubarb and plums), but easy enough to say no to.
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Carbs= Fat, cut out carbs to be less fat.
Sounds legit0 -
themilla497 wrote: »Carbs= Fat, cut out carbs to be less fat.
Sounds legit
Too many calories = fat. Your post was sarcasm, I hope. Carbs can be part of anyone's way of eating.0 -
Managed with medication. I'm disputing your statement that kids "grow" out of it when becoming adults and that's just not true.robs_ready wrote: »
Not according to the CDC.robs_ready wrote: »myheartsabattleground wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
No, adhd is a 'behavioral' disorder not a 'mental' illness or 'syndrome', most individuals with adhd grow out of it as adults.
And I agree with them since I have a relative who's had it and still has it at 40 years old. Without medication, he's hard to deal with.However, children with ADHD do not just grow out of these behaviors. The symptoms continue and can cause difficulty at school, at home, or with friends.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/facts.html
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Not according to the CDC.robs_ready wrote: »myheartsabattleground wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
No, adhd is a 'behavioral' disorder not a 'mental' illness or 'syndrome', most individuals with adhd grow out of it as adults.
And I agree with them since I have a relative who's had it and still has it at 40 years old. Without medication, he's hard to deal with.However, children with ADHD do not just grow out of these behaviors. The symptoms continue and can cause difficulty at school, at home, or with friends.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/facts.html
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The UK has the DSM which labels it as a cognitive behavioral disorder, that's not to say it's not real but adhd is a condition that can be managed effectively.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Excess calories = fat
I don't think anyone here is saying to eliminate all carbs. I follow a low carb diet and still consume carbs as part of a healthy, balanced diet, I just get them from fruits, and vegetables, and dairy, instead of through grains. For me personally, I am more sated following a diet high in fat and low in carbs, it keeps my snacking to a minimum and has eliminated my cravings. I still track my calories, because CICO, but this woe is much easier for me to maintain.
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Indeed...queenliz99 wrote: »themilla497 wrote: »Carbs= Fat, cut out carbs to be less fat.
Sounds legit
Too many calories = fat. Your post was sarcasm, I hope. Carbs can be part of anyone's way of eating.
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I went on a strict paleo diet for about 4 months due to suggestion from my naturopath. The first month of it was elimination diet to try to see if there was a food that was causing my constant migraines. After the elimination portion the next month was putting food back in. After that she wanted me to maintain paleo for weight loss.
While I had great results, I stopped following paleo because it was too hard to meal plan. I have a severe nut allergy, so a lot of paleo diet relies on nuts. So with being grain free, nut free, dairy free, sugar free, legume free ETC. It was so hard to get enough food. I ended up falling off that wagon when I got married last year and gained a "Married 15".
The only thing I still maintain from paleo is eating a lot fewer grains and I am strictly gluten free. When getting rid of it my chronic migraines are gone.
When I was eating paleo I had significant results that were performance related, slept better, more energy.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.
What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?
It was more to do with milk (the mineral concern). But calcium can be acquired from other sources.
Maybe paleo is the wrong word, I just think the diet mimics what I'm trying to achieve.
You can get calcium from marrow or bone broth if you want to be strict, and also from leafy greens and nori. You can also be less strict and still have dairy. It's your diet, and being as paleolithic as possible doesn't have to be your goal.
Calcium in nori? I've eaten loads of it over the years and the packaging always lists 0 calcium.
ETA: I found some online listing as high as 2% per serving. Even at that level it's hardly a good source. Seems to me it would be better to consume dairy absent a specific allergy or other diagnosed issue with dairy. The long-term negative effects of too little calcium aren't worth the fun of a fad diet.
Eat some frickin bone marrow then. People who can't have dairy manage to get their calcium, and the real issue is how well you absorb it, so get your D.
Wrong again. Plenty of calcium in bone but very little in bone marrow. Osteoporosis isn't a joke and these diets are inviting it.
Dairy is not the best source for calcium because it is not readily absorbed from it. The majority of the world's population does just fine without milk. There are many many sources of calcium that are compatable with paleo or low carb diets. Your statements are unfounded.
http://www.dietitians.ca/Your-Health/Nutrition-A-Z/Calcium/Food-Sources-of-Calcium.aspx According to the chart, dairy is not one of the best sources for Ca.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.
What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?
It was more to do with milk (the mineral concern). But calcium can be acquired from other sources.
Maybe paleo is the wrong word, I just think the diet mimics what I'm trying to achieve.
You can get calcium from marrow or bone broth if you want to be strict, and also from leafy greens and nori. You can also be less strict and still have dairy. It's your diet, and being as paleolithic as possible doesn't have to be your goal.
Calcium in nori? I've eaten loads of it over the years and the packaging always lists 0 calcium.
ETA: I found some online listing as high as 2% per serving. Even at that level it's hardly a good source. Seems to me it would be better to consume dairy absent a specific allergy or other diagnosed issue with dairy. The long-term negative effects of too little calcium aren't worth the fun of a fad diet.
Eat some frickin bone marrow then. People who can't have dairy manage to get their calcium, and the real issue is how well you absorb it, so get your D.
Wrong again. Plenty of calcium in bone but very little in bone marrow. Osteoporosis isn't a joke and these diets are inviting it.
Dairy is not the best source for calcium because it is not readily absorbed from it. The majority of the world's population does just fine without milk. There are many many sources of calcium that are compatable with paleo or low carb diets. Your statements are unfounded.
http://www.dietitians.ca/Your-Health/Nutrition-A-Z/Calcium/Food-Sources-of-Calcium.aspx According to the chart, dairy is not one of the best sources for Ca.
Did you read what you linked? I didn't say dairy was the only source but it is, as noted in your link, a great source. The other sources which were argued for above and to which I responded aren't. Eat lots of spinach! I'll keep enjoying dairy rather than cutting out based on some guru's book.
ETA: the link calls dairy an "excellent" source and lists dairy as having more calcium than the other sources listed. You clearly didn't read the link before posting it.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't know why people keep insisting that paleo is similar to keto or HFLC. Paleo is generally neutral on the amount of carbs you consume. Some (like Sisson, who has his own "primal" thing anyway) are generally pro lower carbs, but many are not. Robb Wolf has more a claim to speak for the paleo mainstream than Sisson given his past work with Loren Cordain, and here's his view on paleo and carbs: http://robbwolf.com/2014/12/04/using-evolution-and-exercise-physiology-to-customize-your-carb-intake/
Wolf's take is pretty much what's common among the CFers I know (where, of course, paleo is pretty common). Even with paleo challenges (and yes, I did one once), they were really pushing getting in carbs around workouts and not going too low. Of course, many people are going to cut down on carbs merely because they cut out sweets (although that cuts fat too for most) and of course grains. But there are other really carb-y options, like the super popular sweet potato, the plantain, and even the potato (which seems to be normally accepted, even the W30 people did a turn around).
It's simply a matter of fact that the diet of ketoers/low-carbers look "paleoish" (or lacto-paleoish). So the two communities are close and somewhat influence each other (you see for instance paleo dieters into the bulletproof coffe thing, that has no rationale whatsoever on a paleolithic diet).
I have a friend who does paleo...he eats sweet potatoes like they're candy and apparently good old white potatoes are now gaining acceptance within that whack *kitten* community (not sure what the *kitten* is wrong with a potato to make it non-paleo in the first place..it's a whole friggin' food). At any rate, he's definitely not keto and I would say his overall consumption of carbs is probably moderate much like my own...but really, the way he does paleo anyway bears little to no resemblance to LCHF/keto diets.0 -
ADHD symptoms in adults tend to attenuate as puberty sees the prefontal cortex develop and the increased executive functions allow more control. They do not entirely disappear for all or probably even most individuals.0
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Actually, ADHD is a mental illness, listed in the DSM V (yes, the US uses this book too) as one of the neurodevelopmental disorders. Symptoms might lessen in severity as people age, but it's there whether you like it or not. And diet isn't necessarily going to change that.
From the DSM-V "The ADHD diagnosis in previous editions of DSM was written to help clinicians identify the disorder in children. Almost two decades of research conclusively show that a significant number of individuals diagnosed with ADHD as children continue to experience the disorder as adults. Evidence of this came from studies in which individuals were tracked for years or even decades after their initial childhood diagnosis. The results showed that ADHD does not fade at a specific age".
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Good luck to you. I can't afford organic, naturally pastured meat very often, unfortunately. We're kind of stuck with what's on sale.0
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