Paleo diet: honest debate
Replies
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I've done whole30 and Atkins and have lost on both I can't do low carb now, but I think if you try it out for 2 weeks you will find out if it works for you..the issue is long term and I gained it all back when I started adding back in carbs, but some can maintain well on it and it can be beneficial to people with allergies ..good luck!0
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myheartsabattleground wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
No, adhd is a 'behavioral' disorder not a 'mental' illness or 'syndrome', most individuals with adhd grow out of it as adults.
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »myheartsabattleground wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
Or when you eat "paleo," for that matter.
Symptoms can be worsened by certain foods, I've not said once it's going to go away but limiting symptoms is a potentiality.0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »I hated it and I was miserable.
^^^^This. Also, I might point out that old age during paleolithic times was considered to be 30-35 years old, 40 for a really old dude.
According to Psychology Today, "First, there was not one Palaeolithic diet; there were many. Diets varied according to local availability, according to technical know-how, and according to simple taste. In tropical habitats hunters and gatherers tend to rely heavily on gathered plants, including often grains and tubers. In higher latitudes, where primate-friendly plants are fewer, hunters and gatherers rely more on animal protein. This is true among modern hunters and gatherers, and was true for most of human evolution. The advocates for a caveman diet do have one thing sort of correct: meat has been a significant component of hominin diets for probably two million years. Indeed, we may have meat to thank for our large brains (which we addressed in a previous blog and more on this in another post). But the percentage of meat in the diet varied dramatically over the course of human evolution. Humans have always been pretty eclectic in their dietary choices, as they had to be in order to expand into so many different habitats." So, in actuality, the entire diet is a fallacy, paleo people ate whatever didn't eat them, including potatoes and grains.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/how-think-neandertal/201311/the-truth-about-the-caveman-diet0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »Thanks for the responses guys, it's quite complicated actually.
Im doing it for a number of reasons If I'm being honest;
1.Optimal physical health, clean eating.
2.To have better skin
3.To feel less tired associated with insulin spikes or food group intolerance.
4.To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
5.To curb appetite
May all sound a bit too much, but I want to go wirh a diet which advocates better eating and doesn't cut out meat (I can't live without meat)
It's not that I'm anti grain, I'm just trying to determine whether it agrees with me or not.
Do you think cutting out pasta or the occasional apple pie will give you all of that?
You could just eat a better overall diet. High in greens and fresh produce, with meat and dairy as you like.
It's called "eating better" it works well and doesn't require strict elimination, for example, of legumes, coffee or alcohol.
Not a coffee drinker anymore but tea is always nice (I'm British) don't really eat legumes and alcohol turns me into an *kitten*. So I guess it's not that bad after all?
Paleo British Tea?
Dont knock it till you try it it's good stuff!
There is such a thing? I've consumed plenty of tea, nothing so silly as to be marketed as "Paleo" though.
No its called sarcasm it's something we British know well.
My exposure to the British are mostly well-educated upper class professional types.
Oh i see, as opposed to the lower class unprofessional type that I am?
God that sounded so beautiful, you must love the sound of your own self righteous voice right?
there there - your attempt at sarcasm made up for it . . .
I have a degree in IT and networking and I'm digital marketing manager for an fx Institute, to label me uneducated because my sense of humour is dry is a bit ill thought out though buddy.
We are all very impressed
Lol, I'm laughing even harder now. Trolls are mostly educated people.0 -
CrabNebula wrote: »I think to be logically consistent, you need to actually literally hunt and gather to follow this diet. No going to the supermarket. And then probably starve to death. But hey, you lost weight!
Yeah sound advice, I've literally got my Freddy Flintstone vest on now and just waiting for my bow and arrow to arrive from Amazon, I would of built it myself but I was out of string and amazon is always cheaper anyway. Wish me luck.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »Never mind the debatable point of whether or not paleo truly represents what all, or most, of our distant ancestors ate. A diet that consists mostly of vegetables, fruit, high quality meat and nuts is not overly restrictive and can be extremely healthy, without the kind of planning, and supplement use, that you'd need for going vegan, for example. If you eat organ meats and marrow, the diet would be even better.
What minerals are in grains that you can't get in the foods on your paleo plan?
It was more to do with milk (the mineral concern). But calcium can be acquired from other sources.
Maybe paleo is the wrong word, I just think the diet mimics what I'm trying to achieve.
You can get calcium from marrow or bone broth if you want to be strict, and also from leafy greens and nori. You can also be less strict and still have dairy. It's your diet, and being as paleolithic as possible doesn't have to be your goal.
Calcium in nori? I've eaten loads of it over the years and the packaging always lists 0 calcium.
ETA: I found some online listing as high as 2% per serving. Even at that level it's hardly a good source. Seems to me it would be better to consume dairy absent a specific allergy or other diagnosed issue with dairy. The long-term negative effects of too little calcium aren't worth the fun of a fad diet.
Eat some frickin bone marrow then. People who can't have dairy manage to get their calcium, and the real issue is how well you absorb it, so get your D.0 -
robs_ready wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »myheartsabattleground wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
Or when you eat "paleo," for that matter.
Symptoms can be worsened by certain foods, I've not said once it's going to go away but limiting symptoms is a potentiality.
I know of a few low carbers who can claim mental clarity was a result of changing their diets, and know of one low carber who has said that the diet has helped with her ADHD.0 -
positivepowers wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »I hated it and I was miserable.
^^^^This. Also, I might point out that old age during paleolithic times was considered to be 30-35 years old, 40 for a really old dude.
According to Psychology Today, "First, there was not one Palaeolithic diet; there were many. Diets varied according to local availability, according to technical know-how, and according to simple taste. In tropical habitats hunters and gatherers tend to rely heavily on gathered plants, including often grains and tubers. In higher latitudes, where primate-friendly plants are fewer, hunters and gatherers rely more on animal protein. This is true among modern hunters and gatherers, and was true for most of human evolution. The advocates for a caveman diet do have one thing sort of correct: meat has been a significant component of hominin diets for probably two million years. Indeed, we may have meat to thank for our large brains (which we addressed in a previous blog and more on this in another post). But the percentage of meat in the diet varied dramatically over the course of human evolution. Humans have always been pretty eclectic in their dietary choices, as they had to be in order to expand into so many different habitats." So, in actuality, the entire diet is a fallacy, paleo people ate whatever didn't eat them, including potatoes and grains.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/how-think-neandertal/201311/the-truth-about-the-caveman-diet
Some people lived for a long time so 30 or 40 was not considered old.
There was a higher degree of infant mortality that brought down the average age.
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OP, if you think certain foods are causing some of your issues, have you gone to an allergist? I would definitely give that a try.
And personally, it sounds like you really want an elimination diet, so maybe something like Whole 30 would be better to try? It was actually designed to be an elimination diet.
I have to admit I'm biased, because I can't get past the fact that Paleo is named after something it isn't, and even if it was, I have never, not once, thought, "Gee, I wish my life was more like a paleolithic person's!"
But seriously, there is no harm in trying it if you want. I don't believe it's the magical cure-all some people sell it as, but it works for some and maybe it will work for you. Hope you figure it out!0 -
I'm not a fan of the term "Paleo Diet". That being said, my diet is pretty much what you're aiming for as I eat a ketogenic diet or high fat, low carb (HFLC) diet.
I limit my carb intake to under 70g a day and usually don't go over 50g. My macro breakdown is 70% fat, 25% protein, and 5% carbs. I also try to limit my sugar intake to under 30g a day.
I eat meat regardless of its diet, but do try to buy local or grass-fed only because it tastes better, imo. I also eat nuts, veggies, lots of greens, cheeses, and so many avocados. The only fruits I really eat, besides avocados, are blueberries and blackberries.
Pros:
I sleep much better and have more deep REM sleep.
I have pretty constant energy throughout the day even on days when I fast or don't get to eat between breakfast and dinner.
I don't retain nearly as much water weight. When I first started the keto diet, I lost 13lbs of water weight in the first few days.
I never feel bloated, even if I eat a large meal.
Morning aches have disappeared.
I don't get headaches much anymore.
Cons:
It's not easy. Food choices are limited and you need to get creative. Not bad for me since I cook.0 -
Also, a keto diet is not for everyone. There are definite benefits to those who eat a ketogenic diet and it does work for, though.0
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Carbs fuel exercise. Low carb is ok for losing weight if you're not very active, but in my humble opinion, low-carb exercise sucks balls and most people perform far, far better in the gym with a good amount of carbs in their system. The Paleo guidelines say "Don't over-exercise." That's crap. Exercise as much as you want, and eat enough carbs to fuel your exercise properly.
I really think this depends on the person. I've experienced no loss of energy, power, or performance while lifting after switching to a ketogenic diet. I can see where some may, though.0 -
Not according to the CDC.robs_ready wrote: »myheartsabattleground wrote: »robs_ready wrote: »To aid with left over symptoms of adhd as a child, inattentiveness and sleep problems.
WRONG. You're born with ADHD, you'll die with ADHD. It doesn't magically go away when you get older.
No, adhd is a 'behavioral' disorder not a 'mental' illness or 'syndrome', most individuals with adhd grow out of it as adults.
And I agree with them since I have a relative who's had it and still has it at 40 years old. Without medication, he's hard to deal with.However, children with ADHD do not just grow out of these behaviors. The symptoms continue and can cause difficulty at school, at home, or with friends.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/facts.html
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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positivepowers wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »I hated it and I was miserable.
^^^^This. Also, I might point out that old age during paleolithic times was considered to be 30-35 years old, 40 for a really old dude.
According to Psychology Today, "First, there was not one Palaeolithic diet; there were many. Diets varied according to local availability, according to technical know-how, and according to simple taste. In tropical habitats hunters and gatherers tend to rely heavily on gathered plants, including often grains and tubers. In higher latitudes, where primate-friendly plants are fewer, hunters and gatherers rely more on animal protein. This is true among modern hunters and gatherers, and was true for most of human evolution. The advocates for a caveman diet do have one thing sort of correct: meat has been a significant component of hominin diets for probably two million years. Indeed, we may have meat to thank for our large brains (which we addressed in a previous blog and more on this in another post). But the percentage of meat in the diet varied dramatically over the course of human evolution. Humans have always been pretty eclectic in their dietary choices, as they had to be in order to expand into so many different habitats." So, in actuality, the entire diet is a fallacy, paleo people ate whatever didn't eat them, including potatoes and grains.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/how-think-neandertal/201311/the-truth-about-the-caveman-diet
Some people lived for a long time so 30 or 40 was not considered old.
There was a higher degree of infant mortality that brought down the average age.
People also died of relatively minor injuries that got infected.0 -
I started doing keto, similar to paleo, with dairy, for chronic hand pain and stiffness that was making it hard to open jars and hold pencils. It seems to be working, though, as a scientist, I can't rule out the possibility that my hand pain went away on its own, coincidental to starting my high fat low carb diet.0
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One thing I hated about keto (when I was competing) was how my breath smelled.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 0 -
@ninerbuff - is it necessary to go there re. the CDC?0
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^ Yes.lithezebra wrote: »positivepowers wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »I hated it and I was miserable.
^^^^This. Also, I might point out that old age during paleolithic times was considered to be 30-35 years old, 40 for a really old dude.
According to Psychology Today, "First, there was not one Palaeolithic diet; there were many. Diets varied according to local availability, according to technical know-how, and according to simple taste. In tropical habitats hunters and gatherers tend to rely heavily on gathered plants, including often grains and tubers. In higher latitudes, where primate-friendly plants are fewer, hunters and gatherers rely more on animal protein. This is true among modern hunters and gatherers, and was true for most of human evolution. The advocates for a caveman diet do have one thing sort of correct: meat has been a significant component of hominin diets for probably two million years. Indeed, we may have meat to thank for our large brains (which we addressed in a previous blog and more on this in another post). But the percentage of meat in the diet varied dramatically over the course of human evolution. Humans have always been pretty eclectic in their dietary choices, as they had to be in order to expand into so many different habitats." So, in actuality, the entire diet is a fallacy, paleo people ate whatever didn't eat them, including potatoes and grains.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/how-think-neandertal/201311/the-truth-about-the-caveman-diet
Some people lived for a long time so 30 or 40 was not considered old.
There was a higher degree of infant mortality that brought down the average age.
People also died of relatively minor injuries that got infected.
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michelle172415 wrote: »I follow a Paleo-ish diet. I started with a Whole 30 and then one at a time I reintroduced foods. I can't handle foods with gluten, but do ok with rice and corn and will have those occasionally. About 80% of my produce is organic and about 50% of my meats are direct from the farm, the other 50% are from the grocery store. My eggs are from a friend and the chickens are free range.
I'm not perfect with everything all the time, and even the pioneer of the Paleo movement Mark Sisson says that following a Paleo diet 80% is good. I'm ok with that. I love the diet. I eat delicious fresh foods and I feel great. My GI issues are resolved, I'm mostly off my HB meds, my keratosis pilaris is mostly gone, my skin is clear, and I sleep better. I'm losing weight as well because I can easily maintain a deficit. I'm happy.
Mark Sisson isn't "the pioneer of the Paleo movement." And while I think it's great to get locally-raised, small farm produce and meat (I do that too), I don't consider that especially paleo (or unique to it). Technically, the idea of paleo is pre agriculture.
The essence of paleo is no grains, dairy, and legumes. Individuals have sensitivities or allergies to certain of those foods -- most commonly dairy (lots of people are lactose intolerant), and less commonly gluten. But I still see no reason why giving up that group -- because supposedly they weren't eaten pre agriculture, but that's not really true -- is beneficial in general.
I'm glad you enjoy your diet and am not suggesting you should change. I do think there are many healthy diets that would probably work as well for you and -- more significantly -- for others. I've yet to hear a good reason (and I've read It Starts With Food) to avoid these foods, especially legumes.0
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