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Meat Eater, Vegetarian or Vegan?

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  • King_SpicyKing_Spicy Posts: 823Member Member Posts: 823Member Member
    Just had pork steak, beef bulgogi, and two things of beef brisket during lunch break.

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  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    tlflag1620 wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    MissGB11 wrote: »
    People do realise that the sheer number of humans and clearing of land for agricultural needs is the main threat to the environment right? Being a vegan is ethical in the animal cruelty category (arguably) only for domestic animals raised purely for food, unless you eat a lot of wild meat but that's a whole new argument (I'm pro hunting if its done correctly and the beast is eaten and not a trophy). However it doesn't reduce the habitat destruction, fragmentation or overconsumption in wild ecosystems. The "ethics" argument baffles me - domestic animals have the right not to die quickly and humanely for food but wild animals can die slowly from starvation/habitat loss so we can grow more soy? I agree the practices could be better (I hate caged meat and feed lots) but the push for those practices was driven by population and consumption... Mainly in developed nations.

    Omnivore over here. We raise chickens for eggs at home and Australia has pretty good meat - even kangaroo is delicious.

    The domestic impact on the earth, even if we put the ethical piece aside is still pretty staggering. I usually just focus on my own plate, but not when people put my own ethical choice in quotes and throw shade at it.....

    climatechange-1.gif

    Is this the same for all meats, or just hamburger? There are meats other than beef after all. There are bad farming practices for plants and meat.

    It is similar for mass produced meat, no matter the type.

    Not so fast

    http://www.iflscience.com/environment/new-study-says-beef-10x-more-damaging-environment-chicken-pork-or-dairy-foods

    @shell1005, I'm wondering what your take is on this article? (Thinking this response to your post got missed?)

    Wow, worse than automobiles. I knew beef used a lot of resources but, assuming that is true, that's an alarming comparison. Makes me glad I don't like beef much.

    I tend to think that article is not entirely true. They are claiming that grass fed beef is worse for the environment than grain fed. That simply doesn't make sense. Sure grain fed cattle use a lot of resources - mostly due to the mono crop farming used to produce their feed. Then again, the corn or wheat or soy used in cattle feed is not suitable for human consumption. And much of the land it is grown on may not be suitable for growing anything other than substandard grains. Grass fed cattle can be raised in places that are not suitable for farming, and only need a minimum of silage for winter months in very cold climates. I haven't yet looked at the while study tho, just the opinion piece linked. But on the surface something doesn't seem right...

    As I read it they are saying that grass-fed is still worse than other types of animals. not worse than grain-fed, but still I am skeptical, as they seem to be placing way too much emphasis on the total amount of land needed, which assumes there's some more environmentally sound use of the land which is being passed up. I've only skimmed part of it, though, so am reserving judgment.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/111/33/11996.full

    I also admit to buying grassfed from areas where the land probably is suitable for farming, since I tend to buy local. I'd have to research it more to have an opinion on whether that's a bad thing to do, environmentally.

    (Also, unlike the average American according to the argument, lamb provides more of the "red meat" I eat than beef, typically.)
    edited April 2016
  • PascootyPascooty Posts: 38Member, Premium Member Posts: 38Member, Premium Member
    I've been a vegetarian for about 24 years, since I was 15 years old (for ethical purposes). I used to be very healthy for many years. As I got older I made bad choices regarding food and activity level. I'm an obese vegetarian now. So, yes, I agree with many others that say all ways can be healthy or unhealthy. It mostly depends on how we eat in those chosen diets/lifestyles.
  • GraceAnneU95GraceAnneU95 Posts: 18Member Member Posts: 18Member Member
    I'm a vegetarian (don't eat fish either, some people assume that I do) and chose to this way about 5 years ago (for many reasons). On the nutrition side of things, I consume very low levels of cholesterol, usually less unhealthy fats, it redirects me away from a lot unhealthy foods (most fast food has meat in it and I can't eat at some chain restaurants such as Applebee's which only has 1 veg item: fried green beans). I think I've also been led to explore more interesting veggies and recipes by getting off crutch of just making chicken-something for every meal. I consume a ton of fiber too, so I'm pretty regular haha. I will say I tried being vegan a couple years ago and found myself forming an iron deficiency and eating junk food and fake dairy because I was lazy (didn't do enough research, didn't cook nearly enough). That's not to knock it, I know people who do it well, but it wasn't the time my life to be doing that. To each their own, right?
  • GraceAnneU95GraceAnneU95 Posts: 18Member Member Posts: 18Member Member
    I've already posted on here but I just wanted to add that as a vegetarian, I've never once had trouble getting enough protein in my diet
  • GraceAnneU95GraceAnneU95 Posts: 18Member Member Posts: 18Member Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    Meat. To be quite honest I am moving towards carnivore because I feel better without plant products in my life.

    I am was prediabetic, and I switched to a low carb diet to help stabilize my blood glucose. I realized fairly quickly that I felt better as my carbs decreased so I switched to a ketogenic diet. I appear to be quite carb sensitive so I started dropping some veggies and realized that I felt better without most of them. My only plant product hold overs are coconut ( and cream and oil), nuts, avocado, some canola in my mayonnaise, coffee and stevia drops.

    I know I can get all of the nutrients I need from animal products so I am not at all worried about nutrition. I think many of the healthful parts of plants, like fibre, are there to help humans deal with eating plants. They seem to become redundant as you move away from a plant based diet.

    I also eat eggs and full fat dairy. I probably eat meat twice a day, sometimes more and sometimes less. I keep protein to about 20% for blood glucose reasons.

    I know eating almost like a carnivore seems odd but I think that is because it is uncommon, and because of the anti cholesterol and saturated fats messages (based on what i think was a lack of science to back it up) that became so widely accepted in the past 50 odd years. I think eventually that being a carnivore will be though to be about as unusual as a vegetarian or vegan.

    Dude I'm sorry but there's plenty of evidence (which is fully accepted by the scientific community) that saturated fats and cholesterol in high levels are bad for heart health, too much over time can cause you to go into cardiac arrest.
    I think you should check your research (or lack there of) on google scholar (not regular Google) because the things you have heard are not propaganda, a lot of research has gone into those findings. You can't just decide that you think all of these things and declare them true without any real backing.
    I understand that reducing sugar was good for you because you were pre diabetic, but that doesn't mean that what you're doing now is healthy or sustainable long term.
  • GraceAnneU95GraceAnneU95 Posts: 18Member Member Posts: 18Member Member
    Hornsby wrote: »
    kmbrvt99 wrote: »
    I'm a vegetarian on the cusp of becoming vegan. I'm a huge believer in knowing where my food comes from so I challenge everyone on this feed to watch a few documentaries such as 'Food Inc' and then ask yourself if you are okay with the way the animals are treated. But to each it's own =)

    That's like watching Star Wars to get your information about NASA.

    What makes you say that? Sounds like you haven't even seen the documentary, so you can't really make an educated comment about its content.
  • BecomingBaneBecomingBane Posts: 3,648Member Member Posts: 3,648Member Member
    I've seen it, and find it to be like almost any other food oriented documentary... full of fear mongering and no real information outside of opinion and badly cited and even more badly quoted science. I tend to watch several of these documentaries each week and over the last 7 years or so, I've not found a single one that wasn't pushing one agenda or another.
  • RGv2RGv2 Posts: 5,752Member Member Posts: 5,752Member Member
    Hornsby wrote: »
    kmbrvt99 wrote: »
    I'm a vegetarian on the cusp of becoming vegan. I'm a huge believer in knowing where my food comes from so I challenge everyone on this feed to watch a few documentaries such as 'Food Inc' and then ask yourself if you are okay with the way the animals are treated. But to each it's own =)

    That's like watching Star Wars to get your information about NASA.

    What makes you say that? Sounds like you haven't even seen the documentary, so you can't really make an educated comment about its content.

    No, I'm thinking @Hornsby is saying that because it's more of an agenda piece, rather than a "documentary".
  • tlflag1620tlflag1620 Posts: 1,358Member Member Posts: 1,358Member Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    Meat. To be quite honest I am moving towards carnivore because I feel better without plant products in my life.

    I am was prediabetic, and I switched to a low carb diet to help stabilize my blood glucose. I realized fairly quickly that I felt better as my carbs decreased so I switched to a ketogenic diet. I appear to be quite carb sensitive so I started dropping some veggies and realized that I felt better without most of them. My only plant product hold overs are coconut ( and cream and oil), nuts, avocado, some canola in my mayonnaise, coffee and stevia drops.

    I know I can get all of the nutrients I need from animal products so I am not at all worried about nutrition. I think many of the healthful parts of plants, like fibre, are there to help humans deal with eating plants. They seem to become redundant as you move away from a plant based diet.

    I also eat eggs and full fat dairy. I probably eat meat twice a day, sometimes more and sometimes less. I keep protein to about 20% for blood glucose reasons.

    I know eating almost like a carnivore seems odd but I think that is because it is uncommon, and because of the anti cholesterol and saturated fats messages (based on what i think was a lack of science to back it up) that became so widely accepted in the past 50 odd years. I think eventually that being a carnivore will be though to be about as unusual as a vegetarian or vegan.

    Dude I'm sorry but there's plenty of evidence (which is fully accepted by the scientific community) that saturated fats and cholesterol in high levels are bad for heart health, too much over time can cause you to go into cardiac arrest.
    I think you should check your research (or lack there of) on google scholar (not regular Google) because the things you have heard are not propaganda, a lot of research has gone into those findings. You can't just decide that you think all of these things and declare them true without any real backing.
    I understand that reducing sugar was good for you because you were pre diabetic, but that doesn't mean that what you're doing now is healthy or sustainable long term.

    Actually the most recent meta-analysis have shown that dietary cholesterol has little, if any impact on cholesterol levels found in the blood and that total cholesterol is pretty useless for predicting CVD anyway (triglyceride to HDL ratio is far better): this is why cholesterol is no longer a "nutrient of concern" in the 2015 USDA guidelines. And saturated fat isn't far behind in also being exhonorated - recent studies are showing that the vegetable oils we replaced our traditional, ancestral fat sources (read - animal fats) with are actually worse for us. The lipid hypothesis is all but dead. Inflammation is being focused on as a more likely culprit of CVD. Diets high in sugars, starches, and heavily processed oils are more likely to contribute to heart disease. Try looking at research from this decade.

  • jessica_sodenkampjessica_sodenkamp Posts: 34Member Member Posts: 34Member Member
    My diet is vegan. (Specifically hclf vegan.) Why?
    It cured my anemia. I lost 25+ pounds. I'm getting more protein than I did when I ate meat.
    I'm achieving more nutrient goals than before. In fact, I didn't have to take prenatal pills during my pregnancy because I was getting everything I needed just from eating. My energy levels are through the roof.
    And my favorite reason...I can eat as much of anything that I'd like...given that I'm eating hclf. In fact, I was eating 2500-3000 calories when I lost the weight (and exercising sporadically at best). Pasta, sushi, fruit, burritos, curry, smoothies, ice cream...I love it.
  • vikinglandervikinglander Posts: 1,551Member Member Posts: 1,551Member Member
    I am a paleo follower. I forage daily, through the supermarket. In my mind this is the same as gathering nuts and berries, and hunting. Whatever looks good, whatever's fresh or in season, whatever appeals to me goes in the cart. I usually come out with about 60 to 80% 'produce', and 20 to 40% 'meat'. When I'm in my kitchen, on any given day, I typically will eat some animal protein at every meal; however, based on the idea that meat requires a successful hunt, and there must have been plenty of days when we did not get the gazelle, or moose, or quail, I will choose to stay meat-free for a day or two, and just eat nuts and seeds, fruit, raw veggies. It's good for me, and it's fun to think about.

    This is what I do. Whatever anyone else does is fine. I have no opinion on anyone else's diet or lifestyle.
    edited April 2016
  • janekenney95janekenney95 Posts: 22Member, Premium Member Posts: 22Member, Premium Member
    All options can be healthy depending on what foods you eat from that category. Vegan can quite possibly be the healthiest lifestyle on the planet, as those who are vegan eat the foods that, naturally, human beings were made to eat (fruits and veggies). However, protein-based diets have come out on top to help people lose weight and get fit as well. I've been a vegetarian all my life and am just starting a vegan diet, so I can definitely say all 3 lifestyles are healthy in their own ways, depending on what you consume. :) I have a medical condition (PKU) which prevents me from consuming any high protein foods, so it is not by choice. I'm only going vegan to get healthy and not for moral reasons! Some people also can't do a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle because of the decrease in protein-intake and that varies from person to person. So it's different for everyone and it's all based on what works for that individual person.
  • nvmomketonvmomketo Posts: 12,031Member Member Posts: 12,031Member Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    Meat. To be quite honest I am moving towards carnivore because I feel better without plant products in my life.

    I am was prediabetic, and I switched to a low carb diet to help stabilize my blood glucose. I realized fairly quickly that I felt better as my carbs decreased so I switched to a ketogenic diet. I appear to be quite carb sensitive so I started dropping some veggies and realized that I felt better without most of them. My only plant product hold overs are coconut ( and cream and oil), nuts, avocado, some canola in my mayonnaise, coffee and stevia drops.

    I know I can get all of the nutrients I need from animal products so I am not at all worried about nutrition. I think many of the healthful parts of plants, like fibre, are there to help humans deal with eating plants. They seem to become redundant as you move away from a plant based diet.

    I also eat eggs and full fat dairy. I probably eat meat twice a day, sometimes more and sometimes less. I keep protein to about 20% for blood glucose reasons.

    I know eating almost like a carnivore seems odd but I think that is because it is uncommon, and because of the anti cholesterol and saturated fats messages (based on what i think was a lack of science to back it up) that became so widely accepted in the past 50 odd years. I think eventually that being a carnivore will be though to be about as unusual as a vegetarian or vegan.

    Dude I'm sorry but there's plenty of evidence (which is fully accepted by the scientific community) that saturated fats and cholesterol in high levels are bad for heart health, too much over time can cause you to go into cardiac arrest.
    I think you should check your research (or lack there of) on google scholar (not regular Google) because the things you have heard are not propaganda, a lot of research has gone into those findings. You can't just decide that you think all of these things and declare them true without any real backing.
    I understand that reducing sugar was good for you because you were pre diabetic, but that doesn't mean that what you're doing now is healthy or sustainable long term.

    @GraceAnneU95 I disagree. I believe there is very little research that shows that a diet consisting of meats, eggs, full fat dairy, and some veggies and nuts, meaning a well planned LCHF ketogenic diet, would lead to heart disease. A LCHF diet usually leads to BETTER cholesterol numbers (HDL drops, triglycerides go up, and pattern b LDL increases), which is associated with better cardiovascular health.

    Reducing sugar did help my insulin resistance, and weight loss did not. If I eat a high carb meal (10-20g is high carb for me) my blood glucose goes right back to prediabetic levels. Weight loss (20% of my initial body weight) did not help me. What else should I do? Should I stop eating in a way that I find very easy and satisfying, which makes it almost effortless to maintain my weight loss (even at 2500kcal per day when sedentary), and has improved my other health issues? Eat "normal" and watch my health decline, and probably regain my lost weight? No thanks.

    Not healthy or sustainable? For me, you are wrong.

    ...And I know google scholar and use it frequently. LOL Here is the first link it provided when I typed "ketogenic diet lipid profile". A Low-Carbohydrate, Ketogenic Diet versus a Low-Fat Diet To Treat Obesity and Hyperlipidemia: A Randomized, Controlled Trial
  • PricillaKoreaPricillaKorea Posts: 48Member Member Posts: 48Member Member
    I am vegetarian, I see a lot of comments about getting protein from meat, but you can get a surplus of protein from eating just whole foods. Eating whole foods is always the superior diet compared to junk and processed foods. I personally as though the vegan diet is the superior diet, but as long as you incorporate a lot of whole foods you are better off than most. My opinion, don't get offended!
  • nellebelle14nellebelle14 Posts: 9Member Member Posts: 9Member Member
    Hey everyone! Not totally new to MFP, but I took a 6 month hiatus and I am now back! I've started a vegan diet (about 1.5 weeks ago) for many great reasons, and I love it so far! I'm looking to add some vegan friends on here since I'm super new at this. I need all the support, motivation and nutritional information I can get on this vegan lifestyle! Any helpful advice is welcome ❤️
  • Leslierussell4134Leslierussell4134 Posts: 386Member, Premium Member Posts: 386Member, Premium Member
    Veggan...vegan but eat eggs. I am on the verge of going gluten free as well, but I'm working up to it. I have changed my eating habits for health and environmental reasons, used to be omnivorous. I don't want to take supplements, so I eat eggs, but carefully select the source and mostly buy them from the farmers market where I know the chickens are well kept, fed, and local to my home. My husband has celiac disease, recently diagnosed, and I want to be supportive of going gluten free. I love the taste of meat, always have, but I just don't believe it's sustainable for each person in the world to consume on a daily basis, for that reason, I've given it up. Plus the fact that animals are treated in ways many don't even realize, cruel and inhuman.
    I think any diet can be healthful, but all but one nutrient can be obtained from plant sources, so I'll eat mostly plants. That is all.
  • campbell3913campbell3913 Posts: 64Member Member Posts: 64Member Member
    Meat, mostly chicken and pork. More fish would be good, just don't like cooking it. Love beef, but have just slowly been moving away from it. Lots of vegetables and fruit.
  • BinaryPulsarBinaryPulsar Posts: 9,068Member Member Posts: 9,068Member Member
    Because of my medical injuries I had severe malabsorption. The vegan diet caused very bad skin disorder among others. But, it's because of my medical condition, not the vegan diet for any other person. I still eat 80% or more plant foods. And I don't even like eating the chicken I added. But, my health has and is improving. And I was able to gain back weight I needed to gain. I will continue to reduce the amount of chicken I eat as I am able. I buy it twice a week.
    edited May 2016
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