I shouldn't have read that book!
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QuietBloom wrote: »Analysis paralisis is hard. But don't let someone else's opinion (which is all that book is) sway you too much. Doctors do recommend a plant based diet, but they also recommend lean proteins like fish and chicken with limited amounts of red meat. Humans are omnivores, which means we need to eat some animal based products to get all of the nutrients we need. Vitamin B12 is something that is ONLY available from animal products (for instance).
Yes, we are omnivores, which in and of itself does not mean we have to eat animals to get all of our nutrients. It means that we are a highly adaptable species and can live, and thrive, on a variety of diets. B12 is absorbed by animals through the plants and soil they eat, which in turn is absorbed by humans who eat those animals. There are some propositions that the reason veg*ns have a difficult time getting adequate B12 from plant food sources is because our current soils are so depleted through mismanagement (such as monoculture crop cultivation) that there isn't enough for us to absorb just by eating plant foods. I haven't read the science on that in quite a long time, so I'm not sure if there's anything new about that. And yes, a vegan or strict vegetarian should supplement B12, or eat fortified foods, to make sure they don't ever get to a point where they are deficient as it is very important not to be. But, with access to everything we in industrialized nations have, there is no need to eat animals if one does not want to.
Whether you choose to eat animals or not, it would be great if people wouldn't use scare tactics on either side.
I am not using scare tactics, I am simply stating facts. The B12 that is in the soil is not a form that is absorbable for humans - the depleted soil theory does not have merit. The most bioavailable (for humans) supplemental B12 is produced using cow gut bacteria grown using fetal bovine serum as part of the media.0 -
You don't gain weight eating at maintenance though or in a calorie deficit. You gain weight by eating a surplus. That's how physiology works.SugarySweetheart wrote: »Because of "Forks over Knives" and similar information and videos, (besides having a sister that's vegan and another that's vegetarian and both are completely healthy and thin) I was told meat is "BAD" and I should try to get healthy by eating their way.
I tried it for 6 months and I was GAINING weight. When you don't eat meat you must eat carbs. Well I'm obese and diabetic and it's hard for me to exercise ~ So, all the carbs I was eating was turning into sugar and then stored as fat. It was terrible.
In other words you ate LESS calories which would account for the weight loss.Then I saw a nutritionist for obese people and was told to eat a protein based diet with simple carbs like vegetables and limit sugar and processed foods. I have begun to lose weight again. I'm thankful I took off the weight I gained previously. I also learned that animal fat, which those books and videos claim is making us fatter and unhealthy, is NOT TRUE.
Information, including Expert Advice from doctors and dieticians, is always conflicting! You have to eat what is good for your own body. I wish you much success!
How one goes about how to lose weight is a preference, but it STILL comes down to CICO.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Like others have said, the book and documentary you're citing are not peer-reviewed, scientifically dependent studies. They're both in the business of making money, they're both subject unchecked author-bias, they lack any sort of formal critiquing system for evaluating their claims, and as such they're completely unreliable as a source of dietary guidance.
The mediterranean diet gets a lot of attention because of the perceived longevity of it's adherents, but mediterranean people actually don't have statistically healthier or longer lives than many other populations. Diet varies widely by culture, geography, and climate. Inuit people traditionally lived primarily on meat due to the agricultural restrictions of such a cold climate. Buddhists and many Hindus are vegetarian and/or vegan. Coastal people tend to eat more fish. And all these different places have so many other factors aside from diet that affect their health and longevity, that attributing it solely to meat consumption is faulty thinking.
That being said, balance is important. Make sure your diet also has lots of vegetables and fruits -- they are rich in nutrients that meat lacks. (And vice versa). As long as you are getting a variety of real foods and eating the right amount of calories, eating meat will not put you in an early grave. Humans are omnivores, we require certain amino chains in our diet to live, and those amino chains are most readily found in meat -- we are meant to eat meat.3 -
QuietBloom wrote: »QuietBloom wrote: »Analysis paralisis is hard. But don't let someone else's opinion (which is all that book is) sway you too much. Doctors do recommend a plant based diet, but they also recommend lean proteins like fish and chicken with limited amounts of red meat. Humans are omnivores, which means we need to eat some animal based products to get all of the nutrients we need. Vitamin B12 is something that is ONLY available from animal products (for instance).
Yes, we are omnivores, which in and of itself does not mean we have to eat animals to get all of our nutrients. It means that we are a highly adaptable species and can live, and thrive, on a variety of diets. B12 is absorbed by animals through the plants and soil they eat, which in turn is absorbed by humans who eat those animals. There are some propositions that the reason veg*ns have a difficult time getting adequate B12 from plant food sources is because our current soils are so depleted through mismanagement (such as monoculture crop cultivation) that there isn't enough for us to absorb just by eating plant foods. I haven't read the science on that in quite a long time, so I'm not sure if there's anything new about that. And yes, a vegan or strict vegetarian should supplement B12, or eat fortified foods, to make sure they don't ever get to a point where they are deficient as it is very important not to be. But, with access to everything we in industrialized nations have, there is no need to eat animals if one does not want to.
Whether you choose to eat animals or not, it would be great if people wouldn't use scare tactics on either side.
I am not using scare tactics, I am simply stating facts. The B12 that is in the soil is not a form that is absorbable for humans - the depleted soil theory does not have merit. The most bioavailable (for humans) supplemental B12 is produced using cow gut bacteria grown using fetal bovine serum as part of the media.
Like I said, I haven't looked at the science for the soil proposition in a long time, so I'm not going to argue with you as to whether it is correct or not, as I cannot do so at this time and did not state it as fact. And, as I said, neither side should use scare tactics - and that includes the author of the book, obvioualy.
I think OP is at a place where she should not be immobilized, but continue to eat a healthful diet and spend her time researching more, and change her diet at that point if she so chooses. But regardless of whether the soil argument does or does not have merit, the fact remains that in this day and age, we can choose to not eat animals and be very healthy our whole lives. I don't think she's going to find a good and fully informed answer after listening to a bunch of posters. She should do her own research, as other posters have mentioned.0 -
THIS sums it up quite nicely and I fully agree.thewildair wrote: »Like others have said, the book and documentary you're citing are not peer-reviewed, scientifically dependent studies. They're both in the business of making money, they're both subject unchecked author-bias, they lack any sort of formal critiquing system for evaluating their claims, and as such they're completely unreliable as a source of dietary guidance.
The mediterranean diet gets a lot of attention because of the perceived longevity of it's adherents, but mediterranean people actually don't have statistically healthier or longer lives than many other populations. Diet varies widely by culture, geography, and climate. Inuit people traditionally lived primarily on meat due to the agricultural restrictions of such a cold climate. Buddhists and many Hindus are vegetarian and/or vegan. Coastal people tend to eat more fish. And all these different places have so many other factors aside from diet that affect their health and longevity, that attributing it solely to meat consumption is faulty thinking.
That being said, balance is important. Make sure your diet also has lots of vegetables and fruits -- they are rich in nutrients that meat lacks. (And vice versa). As long as you are getting a variety of real foods and eating the right amount of calories, eating meat will not put you in an early grave. Humans are omnivores, we require certain amino chains in our diet to live, and those amino chains are most readily found in meat -- we are meant to eat meat.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I have "analysis paralysis". I have read too much and now I'm just totally confused. I know that to lose weight you need to burn more calories than you eat. Simple (but hard). But I read a book (backed by a lot of medical research) that talked about how badly animal products contribute to diseases such as heart disease, cancer, dementia, etc., even when individuals are at a healthy weight. There are a lot of similar books/documentaries, such as "Forks over Knives" that talk about the benefits of eating a plant based diet. Now, the problem. I like meat. I don't want to give it up. I can cut back, sure, but I feel like now that I "know" this stuff, I shouldn't do it. I've been reading about the Mediterranean diet and how they limit meats and sweets and have been considered following it, loosely, but it has me so stressed out. I have a 6 year old and I want him to be healthy but radically changing his diet will not happen. Moreover, if I cut meat from all but maybe dinner each day, I don't know a lot of non-meat options. I like some veggies but not a ton. So, MFP'ers, how do you deal with learning this type of info? I wish I never read that book, to be honest. It was so on point with the studies showing how much diseases are related to meat products that it has me overwhelmed.
I don't spend my time reading or watching stuff like that.
I think a healthy diet plan can be very simple- eat enough protein, eat several servings of vegetables and fruits a day, whole grains are good choices, eat some good fats, eat the number of calories appropriate for your age, height, weight, and activity level. Beyond diet- get some regular exercise and get enough sleep.
My family eats meat but also meatless meals often because of cost. Beans and lentils are cheap so we have learned to like eating them.0 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »What book?
This particular book was called "How Not to Die" which I was hoping would teach me some foods to ADD to help stave off disease, which it did, but it also really detailed the dangers of animal products.
In spite of this book, the mortality rate for the human race remains steady at 100%.10 -
My non smoking, non drinking, thin, healthy vegan friend still died from cancer.....cancer doesn't give a *kitten* if you are vegan or live off junk food.....death and taxes, the two certainties in life8
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The people who wrote this book are a LOUD and obnoxious minority whose good intentions (the well being of our less evolved fellow earthlings) have gone straight to hell because rather than appeal to people's sense of justice and compassion they have chosen rather to make up lies about animal products and environmentally unfriendly products in order to scare-tactic people into their ideology.
Abusing and being in any way to cruel to animals is clearly a sh*tty thing to do. Screwing up the only planet known to be capable of supporting human life is suicidal at best (when you do it) and criminal homicide at worst(when corporations do it). But that's got nothing to do with the quality of the products we acquire by engaging in these bad behaviors. Be a vegetarian/vegan/environmentalist because you feel a drive toward goodness and morality. Not because of the lies of a few misguided lunatics who understand animal drives better than human ones (to motivate by fear rather than by compassion).5 -
1. Some meat is a lot healthier than other types - crappy processed food is going to be bad for you whether it's meat or not! So if you eat meat choose products that are better for you, the animals, and the planet. This usually costs more, so it might force you to consider eating less meat (this is how I started down the road to vegetarianism).
2. I am a vegetarian, but it's not an all-or-nothing decision. Many people are meat reducers (or/and dairy reducers) which gives you the flexibility to experiment.
3. Purely on personal health grounds, you don't need to be a veggie. But you probably should expand the range of veg you cook and enjoy - whether or not you continue to eat meat. It's good for kids to see their parents enjoying a wide range of foods, including veg - and of, course, it's good for you too.
4. As coffeeNcardio says, there are many other reasons people choose to be veggie besides personal health - ethics, environment, and cost are all contributing factors to my family's decision. Eating meat will not kill you, but on balance, to answer your question, the way I deal with learning difficult information (not health issues, in my case, but the environmental impact of eating meat and dairy) is to change my behaviour.
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Oh, and - in terms of non-meat options, there are veggie groups here on MFP where people will have loads of ideas, and there are some great cookbooks out there is you want to experiment with some vegetarian meals (whether or not you go completely veggie). I recommend 'River Cottage Veg' but Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall, but it's a UK book so there may be better options as you're based in the US (he makes a lot of eating seasonal veg, which might be different in your location). But take a look at the Amazon bestseller lists of veggie cookbooks if you want inspiration.0
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It's true that there is "research" that can back any way of eating as healthy and as someone who's already done it several times unsucessfully i don't recommend changing your way of eating out of fear of disease alone. If you are interested in trying a whole food plant based diet to seeif you enjoy it, if it makes you feel better or function better than give it a go and you don't have to make your little one do it just because you are.
Try incorporating naturally plant based meals for example most people do not put meat or animal products in their oatmeal. Also there are some good replacement products in stores to help bridge the gap if you are not comfortable eating meals without a meat like substance.
I'm a boring eater meaning i will eat the same meal day after day happily for a month or more. Rice and veggies, bean and mushroom chili, veggie pizza (no cheese), baked or mashed potato, yams, plantains, noodle soups, chickpea or lentil curries, and oatmeal are all plant based staple foods I enjoy eating frequently.
Hope that helps 0 -
just follow the basic rules of weight loss, if you try to use everything you read you will be paralyzed bc they contradict each other. each book is probably legit by itself. youre not a doctor, they could all be meaningful together if you had more knowledge about bio science.0
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If you get past being afraid to die you won't have books like this causing you so much angst. Every living thing eventually dies.
Humans are omnivorous animals. Animal products are both healthy and delicious, as are plants. Eat them all. Be reasonable about how much.
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I have "analysis paralysis". I have read too much and now I'm just totally confused. I know that to lose weight you need to burn more calories than you eat. Simple (but hard). But I read a book (backed by a lot of medical research) that talked about how badly animal products contribute to diseases such as heart disease, cancer, dementia, etc., even when individuals are at a healthy weight. There are a lot of similar books/documentaries, such as "Forks over Knives" that talk about the benefits of eating a plant based diet. Now, the problem. I like meat. I don't want to give it up. I can cut back, sure, but I feel like now that I "know" this stuff, I shouldn't do it. I've been reading about the Mediterranean diet and how they limit meats and sweets and have been considered following it, loosely, but it has me so stressed out. I have a 6 year old and I want him to be healthy but radically changing his diet will not happen. Moreover, if I cut meat from all but maybe dinner each day, I don't know a lot of non-meat options. I like some veggies but not a ton. So, MFP'ers, how do you deal with learning this type of info? I wish I never read that book, to be honest. It was so on point with the studies showing how much diseases are related to meat products that it has me overwhelmed.
By last count I've read over 50 books on dieting and nutrition (as my profile name implies-I'm a book nerd lol), and the bottom line is most of them are written by slick salespeople who are trying to make money. Before I read one of these books I check and see what else they're selling. Most times they're also selling expensive supplement lines, 'special' equipment, video series, retreats, paid memberships and the list goes on. These 'experts' make money by feeding off of people's fears and frustrations. Always read these kinds of books with a healthy dose of skepticism and make sure to also read the opposing view (and there will always be one lol), to balance things out. And if you smell woo, most likely there's someone trying to peddle cow....
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But regardless of whether the soil argument does or does not have merit, the fact remains that in this day and age, we can choose to not eat animals and be very healthy our whole lives.
No, you don't have to eat animals themselves. But we can never get beyond needing to eat certain animal products because of our biology.
Best.0 -
I have "analysis paralysis". I have read too much and now I'm just totally confused. I know that to lose weight you need to burn more calories than you eat. Simple (but hard). But I read a book (backed by a lot of medical research) that talked about how badly animal products contribute to diseases such as heart disease, cancer, dementia, etc., even when individuals are at a healthy weight. There are a lot of similar books/documentaries, such as "Forks over Knives" that talk about the benefits of eating a plant based diet. Now, the problem. I like meat. I don't want to give it up. I can cut back, sure, but I feel like now that I "know" this stuff, I shouldn't do it. I've been reading about the Mediterranean diet and how they limit meats and sweets and have been considered following it, loosely, but it has me so stressed out. I have a 6 year old and I want him to be healthy but radically changing his diet will not happen. Moreover, if I cut meat from all but maybe dinner each day, I don't know a lot of non-meat options. I like some veggies but not a ton. So, MFP'ers, how do you deal with learning this type of info? I wish I never read that book, to be honest. It was so on point with the studies showing how much diseases are related to meat products that it has me overwhelmed.
Read what you wrote. You like meat, and not many veggies. If you try to eat in a manner than limits meat and emphasizes veggies, you will most likely fail to stick with it and go back to your old habits. Then, you will become one of the many people who claim to have tried everything, but are unable to lose weight.
Eat what you like, within your calorie limit. That is how you lose weight successfully.
As for dealing with learning this kind of stuff, I don't buy into any of it in the first place. As someone else pointed out, everyone will die at some point. And, studies are constantly being done that contradict each other. At one point, people were discouraged from eating eggs because of cholesterol, then it was decided that egg whites were ok. Then, it was determined that whole eggs are actually good for you. If you try to keep up with all the so-called science, you will only succeed in driving yourself crazy.
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