Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

afraid of animal fats and cholesterol?

Crisseyda
Crisseyda Posts: 532 Member
in Debate Club
Do you still think eating butter will give you heart disease?

Check out Dr. Maryanne Demasi's documentary. Lots of great information here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGIGXfIDaJo#action=share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY4eTGMe-EY#action=share
«134567…16

Replies

  • MelaniaTrump
    MelaniaTrump Posts: 2,694 Member
    edited May 2016
    Disappointed numbers were not given.
    No site seems to give numbers.
    Only 1 site told me:
    I ate more saturated fats and my LDL went up.
    I ate an avocado for breakfast. So I am not afraid.
    I want info on limits - no one is offering this.
    I want studies, results, cholesterol numbers, heart disease risks.
    Maybe taking a vegetarian and seeing if eating 40+ grams of sat fat a day makes him healthier.
    Real numbers. Data.

    By now, everyone should know cholesterol in eggs is ok.
  • perkymommy
    perkymommy Posts: 1,642 Member
    I've always preferred butter over margarine any day of the week. I cringe when I eat out and all that is available is margarine. Want to hurt yourself then eat that fake crap.
  • Crisseyda
    Crisseyda Posts: 532 Member
    edited May 2016
    JanetYellen wrote: »
    Disappointed numbers were not given.
    No site seems to give numbers.
    Only 1 site told me:
    I ate more saturated fats and my LDL went up.
    I ate an avocado for breakfast. So I am not afraid.
    I want info on limits - no one is offering this.
    I want studies, results, cholesterol numbers, heart disease risks.
    Maybe taking a vegetarian and seeing if eating 40+ grams of sat fat a day makes him healthier.
    Real numbers. Data.

    By now, everyone should know cholesterol in eggs is ok.

    There are no numbers when it comes to diet. Enjoy cholesterol rich foods :)

    To quote the newest USDA 2015 dietary Guidelines:

    Previously, the Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommended that cholesterol intake be limited to no more than 300 mg/day. The 2015 DGAC will not bring forward this recommendation because available evidence shows no appreciable relationship between consumption of dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol, consistent with the conclusions of the AHA/ACC report.2 35 Cholesterol is not a nutrient of concern for overconsumption.

    source: http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015-scientific-report/06-chapter-1/d1-2.asp

    Even mainstream USDA and AHA organizations are finally coming along! Yet, somehow this hasn't made enough headlines to counter years of misinformation.

    On a side note, if you are worried about heart disease, avoid things that cause inflammation: lack of sleep, stress, smoking, sugar and refined carbohydrates (insulin resistance the greatest risk factor), and excess omega 6 fatty acids and trans fats (found in all the refined, processed fats like margarine and soybean oil... not nature).
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
    I guess I'm lucky that I don't like most animal fats so I don't really have to worry much about this. Most animals I eat are lean or higher in unsaturated fats.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    My dad improved his cholesterol numbers by cutting way back on sat fat. So far it doesn't seem to matter for me, but I pay attention for that reason.
  • paulgads82
    paulgads82 Posts: 256 Member
    I should get my levels checked. They were a little high when I was obese so it would be interesting to see the change. I still eat animal fat, Obvs.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
    express.co.uk/life-style/health/672772/eat-more-fat-Britain-obesity-health-epidemic-cholesterol-NHS

    UK discusses the subject.
  • robininfl
    robininfl Posts: 1,137 Member
    Eating healthy fats helped my cholesterol profile, I have always eaten eggs and butter, never margarine or just egg whites, and cheese and milk with fat, mayonnaise, olives, olive oil; adding a focus on nuts, salmon, avocado pushed up the good cholesterol so it's fine now. Blood pressure kinda high at work even though I am thin, eat well, work out, etc, that's stress and genetics.

    I have never eaten a low fat diet, save for when i was eating disordered. Have never considered it healthy, anyway. Every time I look at a low-fat version of something fat, they have replaced the fat with sugar, that just does not seem healthy at all. I do like de-fatted greek yogurt, it's pretty good, but that's just yogurt made with skim milk. If we make it at home we use whole milk, that's even better, but I don't think skim milk products, without added sugars, are unhealthy within the context of a good diet.

    I do not think that eating a whole bunch of steak n cheese would help one's cholesterol though, eating balanced fats makes more sense.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Good videos. :)

    Statins are pretty useless unless you are a middle aged male who has heart disease. Cholesterol as a measure of heart disease is pretty uselss for most too. We really went in the wrong direction for a long time...

    I used to follow a low fat diet. I wouldn'even butter my toast. Leanest cuts of meat I could find. skipped many egg yolks... Psht. I completely bought into the food pyramid and cholesterol is evil and will clog up your arteries... Bunch of bunk.

    I now eat high fat, with a focus on saturated fats and monounsaturated fats. I feel better, I look better, and my weight is better.
  • Crisseyda
    Crisseyda Posts: 532 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    My dad improved his cholesterol numbers by cutting way back on sat fat. So far it doesn't seem to matter for me, but I pay attention for that reason.

    You see, one of the main points in the documentary is that "numbers" are a very poor predictor when it comes to cardiac disease and vary greatly by age and gender--very high cholesterol, for example, is protective in old age. They don't correlate well because extra cholesterol in the blood is not the cause of heart disease. It's the inflammation that brings the extra cholesterol into the artery walls and creates plaques. Focus is placed on the numbers because medical intervention exists to target them: statins (be they harmful, effective, or not, they do "something" and generate revenue). But really focus should be on addressing inflammation--like proper oral hygiene, stress reduction, avoidance of refined fats and refined carbohydrates. In fact, insulin resistance is actually the greatest risk factor for heart disease--so I would focus my intervention on preventing that risk factor first (by keeping your insulin levels low). If you know anything about LDL particle size (see above documentary), your small dense particles (which are more easily oxidized, pro-inflammatory, and correlate more with cardiac disease) increase with intake of dietary refined carbohydrate--not fat and cholesterol. A nuclear lipid panel will actually break down the LDL particle size for you, and give you a better picture of your cardiac risk

    All that being said, a simple lipid panel is really almost meaningless. If you think you may have cardiac disease, and you want to know for sure, one of the most effective tests you can get is a coronary calcium scan. Here's a great presentation on the meaningfulness of this scan in terms of risk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggovoQ8JKyw&feature=youtu.be
  • pfreeme
    pfreeme Posts: 42 Member
    Anything greasy like butter margarine animal fat has always grossed me out. Let fat congeal in a pan its gross dont even like the idea of it in my body. In my mind its the opposite of clean eating.Intuitively I feel it is not healthy for MY body. Ive been vegan for awhile Im curious what my #s are. When I last had them done 10 years ago it was high 205 but it was unckear how much was Good/bad cholesterol? The old adage everything in moderation fits..
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    dopeysmelly wrote: »
    But I'm not much interested in all this eat-butter-and-lard-it-won't-kill-you stuff, unless someone can prove that serum cholesterol readings are irrelevant for heart disease risk.

    Can't prove a negative, but don't see the evidence that the lab numbers you refer to are strong drivers of heart disease risk, the risk calculators use ratios like Total/HDL and Triglycerides/HDL rather than headline numbers don't they ?

    The cholesterol number of patients presenting with heart disease are interesting.

    Several systematic reviews and the like over the last 6+ years have said saturated fat is not a problem in itself and substituting it with some things (eg high GI carbohydrate) can make things worse. Replacing sat fat with monounsaturated fat may be helpful, but that isn't the prevailing conventional wisdom of reducing fat.

  • Gianfranco_R
    Gianfranco_R Posts: 1,297 Member
    Traveler120 wrote: »
    aqsylvester wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    My dad improved his cholesterol numbers by cutting way back on sat fat. So far it doesn't seem to matter for me, but I pay attention for that reason.

    In fact, insulin resistance is actually the greatest risk factor for heart disease--so I would focus my intervention on preventing that risk factor first (by keeping your insulin levels low).

    Well, apparently saturated fat does in fact increase insulin resistance.
    http://nutritionfacts.org/video/lipotoxicity-how-saturated-fat-raises-blood-sugar/

    And as several people have said, decreasing saturated fat also lowered my cholesterol (from 278 to 168) by cutting way back on animal fats and overall fats to under 15%. No reason to roll the dice and listen to high fat paleo dogma and risk one's health by ignoring current guidelines about saturated fat and heart disease. I like to have normal lab results and now I do after lowering dietary fat.

    I wouldn't be too sure:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20938439
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    Gianfranco_R wrote: »
    Traveler120 wrote: »
    aqsylvester wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    My dad improved his cholesterol numbers by cutting way back on sat fat. So far it doesn't seem to matter for me, but I pay attention for that reason.

    In fact, insulin resistance is actually the greatest risk factor for heart disease--so I would focus my intervention on preventing that risk factor first (by keeping your insulin levels low).

    Well, apparently saturated fat does in fact increase insulin resistance.
    http://nutritionfacts.org/video/lipotoxicity-how-saturated-fat-raises-blood-sugar/

    And as several people have said, decreasing saturated fat also lowered my cholesterol (from 278 to 168) by cutting way back on animal fats and overall fats to under 15%. No reason to roll the dice and listen to high fat paleo dogma and risk one's health by ignoring current guidelines about saturated fat and heart disease. I like to have normal lab results and now I do after lowering dietary fat.

    I wouldn't be too sure:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20938439

    http://foris.fao.org/preview/25553-0ece4cb94ac52f9a25af77ca5cfba7a8c.pdf

    de7a259851966aefc3e8d52822520149.png

Categories