Starting with Herbal Life!
Replies
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I would rather be warned liver disease is a possibility than have people not say anything.
Problem with message boards is the tone is usually decided by the reader and his/her bias. So much of communication is lost when all there are is words on the computer screen. Try giving people the benefit of the doubt.1 -
No study'll ever be definitive, unless enough people volunteer to undergo a medically controlled study but the link to such a deadly consequence, means that it's medically unethical/illegal; to even conduct such a study. Therefore if the medical community can't even test this, that should be evidence enough; that this outcome's highly plausible.2
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Mr_Stabbems wrote: »I'm am fully aware, I've read those links provided and the studies published. None of that is definitive, and although I do not specialise in liver disease, I do trust my education and training plus my last 5 years working with a wide variety of patients.
I'm not here to discuss the merits or laxk of herbal life products.
I'm only commenting to let you all know that you haven't come across as helpful and the only overwhelming sense I've had from this thread is "judgmental knowitalls"
May I politely point out that you calling everyone on the thread "nuts" and "You guys live in some magic cloud crazy land.." might come across as a pot and kettle moment to many people?
Anyway, not to derail the thread any longer ....
New people come here every day and might have fallen for a lot of these expensive, unhelpful and potentially dangerous products. People aren't always as gentle as they would typically be because there are so many threads about said products. I realize it is not the fault of the OP, but it's reality. People are being helpful when they warn folks away from this junk.2 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »No study'll ever be definitive, unless enough people volunteer to undergo a medically controlled study but the link to such a deadly consequence, means that it's medically unethical/illegal; to even conduct such a study. Therefore if the medical community can't even test this, that should be evidence enough; that this outcome highly plausible.
Are you serious? Is that your logic here?
Have you ever had to do a lit review involving and medical practice? Is that how you think it works?
You just said and I paraphrase here, that the medical community can't definitively prove that such a link exists but because there are suspicions that cannot be tested due to the potential hazard that that is proof enought that it is hazardous.
That is not science. I'm ending this argument lol. I can't argue with that kind of logic...
Lolol jesus help me lol1 -
Mr_Stabbems wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »No study'll ever be definitive, unless enough people volunteer to undergo a medically controlled study but the link to such a deadly consequence, means that it's medically unethical/illegal; to even conduct such a study. Therefore if the medical community can't even test this, that should be evidence enough; that this outcome highly plausible.
Are you serious? Is that your logic here?
Have you ever had to do a lit review involving and medical practice? Is that how you think it works?
You just said and I paraphrase here, that the medical community can't definitively prove that such a link exists but because there are suspicions that cannot be tested due to the potential hazard that that is proof enought that it is hazardous.
That is not science. I'm ending this argument lol. I can't argue with that kind of logic...
Lolol jesus help me lol
With some people it possibly could be definitive, if they have medical records of being healthy before; taking such a supplement but that isn't the case for all whom have acute liver failure. Since these statics include everyone, that had liver failure & the substance in their samples taken, regardless of proof of prior health; so no cause can't be definitely established but the link is because the samples of the person with the acute liver failure, in these studies; also contained the said substance.1 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Mr_Stabbems wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »No study'll ever be definitive, unless enough people volunteer to undergo a medically controlled study but the link to such a deadly consequence, means that it's medically unethical/illegal; to even conduct such a study. Therefore if the medical community can't even test this, that should be evidence enough; that this outcome highly plausible.
Are you serious? Is that your logic here?
Have you ever had to do a lit review involving and medical practice? Is that how you think it works?
You just said and I paraphrase here, that the medical community can't definitively prove that such a link exists but because there are suspicions that cannot be tested due to the potential hazard that that is proof enought that it is hazardous.
That is not science. I'm ending this argument lol. I can't argue with that kind of logic...
Lolol jesus help me lol
With some people it possibly could be definitive, if they have medical records of being healthy before; taking such a supplement but that isn't the case for all whom have acute liver failure. Since these statics include everyone, that had liver failure & the substance in their samples taken, regardless of proof of prior health; so no cause can't be definitely established but the link is because the samples of the person with the acute liver failure, in these studies; also contained the said substance.
Have you read the studies and not just summaries or articles? Some of the studies focused on substances taken in excess like for example vitamin A etc etc which as we all know doesn't only come from herbal life products...
Also the contraction in your opening line are remarkable. "Some people it possibly could be definitive"
Honestly...what?
And lastly, contrary to the points made in some of the studies the link you suggest here indicates correlation not causation.
@missusmoon when you take quotes out of context it's easy to portray them however you want.
My saying it's nuts that people believe that if she takes herbal life products then she will be on a liver transplant list is different to me calling folks nuts for suggesting she doesn't take them.
I did the former not the latter0 -
Mr_Stabbems wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Mr_Stabbems wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »No study'll ever be definitive, unless enough people volunteer to undergo a medically controlled study but the link to such a deadly consequence, means that it's medically unethical/illegal; to even conduct such a study. Therefore if the medical community can't even test this, that should be evidence enough; that this outcome highly plausible.
Are you serious? Is that your logic here?
Have you ever had to do a lit review involving and medical practice? Is that how you think it works?
You just said and I paraphrase here, that the medical community can't definitively prove that such a link exists but because there are suspicions that cannot be tested due to the potential hazard that that is proof enought that it is hazardous.
That is not science. I'm ending this argument lol. I can't argue with that kind of logic...
Lolol jesus help me lol
With some people it possibly could be definitive, if they have medical records of being healthy before; taking such a supplement but that isn't the case for all whom have acute liver failure. Since these statics include everyone, that had liver failure & the substance in their samples taken, regardless of proof of prior health; so no cause can't be definitely established but the link is because the samples of the person with the acute liver failure, in these studies; also contained the said substance.
Have you read the studies and not just summaries or articles? Some of the studies focused on substances taken in excess like for example vitamin A etc etc which as we all know doesn't only come from herbal life products...
Also the contraction in your opening line are remarkable. "Some people it possibly could be definitive"
Honestly...what?
And lastly, contrary to the points made in some of the studies the link you suggest here indicates correlation not causation.
What about your contradiction? I thought you said, you were ending this argument!
I made reference that with the exception of these studies, since it includes all with said substance in their samples regardless of proof of prior health; that separately from these studies those with prior medical records could be definitive proof of their cause but that'd also be determined upon what their previous medical records contain & how recent they are.
I also pointed out that "cause" couldn't be definitely determined, in these studies; which'd mean that the links're correlation.2 -
Lol I had to awesome vote that.
I point out a contradiction in your base argument and you point out my contradiction that I didn't want to argue any more?
OK so I don't understand most of what you said there but from what I gather from the last paragraph you are admitting that the studies show correlation and not causation?
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Mr_Stabbems wrote: »Lol I had to awesome vote that.
I point out a contradiction in your base argument and you point out my contradiction that I didn't want to argue any more?
OK so I don't understand most of what you said there but from what I gather from the last paragraph you are admitting that the studies show correlation and not causation?
Correct to both questions!0 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Mr_Stabbems wrote: »Lol I had to awesome vote that.
I point out a contradiction in your base argument and you point out my contradiction that I didn't want to argue any more?
OK so I don't understand most of what you said there but from what I gather from the last paragraph you are admitting that the studies show correlation and not causation?
Correct to both questions!
Fantastic.
So I'll ignore the contradictions because they are now a moot point.
My entire point here has been that after reading the studies linked that her taking a herbal life product does not mean she will need a liver transplant and that it's nuts to suggest otherwise. ( as the general tone of the thread was suggesting btw)
I am effectively stating that the studies linked don't not prove anything but correlation.
You also agree that it is linked by correlation only.
Another simplified example of correlation and not causation is: Most people that drown, do so in water. This doesn't not mean that being in water means you will drown.
Taking herbal life products DOES NOT MEAN YOU WILL DIE OR NEED A NEW LIVER despite studies linked and the general consensus here in this very thread.
I thank you all for watching. Good night1 -
Mr_Stabbems wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Mr_Stabbems wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »No study'll ever be definitive, unless enough people volunteer to undergo a medically controlled study but the link to such a deadly consequence, means that it's medically unethical/illegal; to even conduct such a study. Therefore if the medical community can't even test this, that should be evidence enough; that this outcome highly plausible.
Are you serious? Is that your logic here?
Have you ever had to do a lit review involving and medical practice? Is that how you think it works?
You just said and I paraphrase here, that the medical community can't definitively prove that such a link exists but because there are suspicions that cannot be tested due to the potential hazard that that is proof enought that it is hazardous.
That is not science. I'm ending this argument lol. I can't argue with that kind of logic...
Lolol jesus help me lol
With some people it possibly could be definitive, if they have medical records of being healthy before; taking such a supplement but that isn't the case for all whom have acute liver failure. Since these statics include everyone, that had liver failure & the substance in their samples taken, regardless of proof of prior health; so no cause can't be definitely established but the link is because the samples of the person with the acute liver failure, in these studies; also contained the said substance.
Have you read the studies and not just summaries or articles? Some of the studies focused on substances taken in excess like for example vitamin A etc etc which as we all know doesn't only come from herbal life products...
Also the contraction in your opening line are remarkable. "Some people it possibly could be definitive"
Honestly...what?
And lastly, contrary to the points made in some of the studies the link you suggest here indicates correlation not causation.
@missusmoon when you take quotes out of context it's easy to portray them however you want.
My saying it's nuts that people believe that if she takes herbal life products then she will be on a liver transplant list is different to me calling folks nuts for suggesting she doesn't take them.
I did the former not the latter
Your posts stand on their own. Enjoy.2 -
I actually didn't know it was bad. I know it's not too realistic, but not bad. I researched online, but to be honest I am finding both Good and bad reports. Regardless, it's not something i want to stick to since i know there is no way i am going to drink a shake all My life, especially since it's so expensive. Oh and let me explain the boost part...I'm stuck at 220 lbs.! I've tried eating less and eating healthy, but I can't get down and it has me a little discouraged. Therefore, i decided to try herbal life to get me below the 220 and maybe the 200s, ha. I will definately look into those comments about it being bad for your liver. They changed their formula so i wonder if this is current. Anyways, Thank you all for your concerns and comments.0 -
Mr_Stabbems wrote: »lol she didnt ask about herbal life, she asked for advice in sticking to the plan....jesus guys, i know you're all desperate to impart your sage advice on the girl but not one of you answered the questions.
@shennin001
Meal replacement shakes i find tend to work best in the middle of the day, some people can do with replacing breakfast but i find having an actual meal, replacing lunch and then a real meal for dinner is easier ( i use protein shakes and blended porridge oats etc but same applies)
Im a fan of IF (intermittent fasting) and that usually works well around shakes of all kinds.
to herballife or not to herballife...thats your choice
Yeah some ppl are a little too passionate about their opinions, but I get what they're trying to say. Thank you though
and thanks for the advice
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shennin001 wrote: »I actually didn't know it was bad. I know it's not too realistic, but not bad. I researched online, but to be honest I am finding both Good and bad reports. Regardless, it's not something i want to stick to since i know there is no way i am going to drink a shake all My life, especially since it's so expensive. Oh and let me explain the boost part...I'm stuck at 220 lbs.! I've tried eating less and eating healthy, but I can't get down and it has me a little discouraged. Therefore, i decided to try herbal life to get me below the 220 and maybe the 200s, ha. I will definately look into those comments about it being bad for your liver. They changed their formula so i wonder if this is current. Anyways, Thank you all for your concerns and comments.
All you need to do is weigh and log ALL your food, no cheat days/meals, hit your calorie goal, and wait out any water weight fluctuations. Weight loss is slow and most of all, you need patience. Don't be discouraged. Changing habits takes time; getting them to feel normal takes even more time.
Oh, and good reviews for lousy products, you can be certain they've written themselves.3 -
shennin001 wrote: »I actually didn't know it was bad. I know it's not too realistic, but not bad. I researched online, but to be honest I am finding both Good and bad reports. Regardless, it's not something i want to stick to since i know there is no way i am going to drink a shake all My life, especially since it's so expensive. Oh and let me explain the boost part...I'm stuck at 220 lbs.! I've tried eating less and eating healthy, but I can't get down and it has me a little discouraged. Therefore, i decided to try herbal life to get me below the 220 and maybe the 200s, ha. I will definately look into those comments about it being bad for your liver. They changed their formula so i wonder if this is current. Anyways, Thank you all for your concerns and comments.
If you're stuck at 220 then what you've been doing isn't working. Eating less and eating healthy is what's needed but you have to eat less than you burn - how have you been tracking what you were eating before? Portion size is usually the problem, we can be eating perfectly healthy foods (although that is really not a requirement/necessary) but if we are eating TOO much of anything then we won't lose weight. Start using a food scale, weigh your foods, log every single thing meticulously and I promise you, the weight will start coming off.1 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Mr_Stabbems wrote: »So if the OP asked how to stick to her suicide plan - we should help?Mr_Stabbems wrote: »lol she didnt ask about herbal life, she asked for advice in sticking to the plan....jesus guys, i know you're all desperate to impart your sage advice on the girl but not one of you answered the questions.
@Bob314159
OK calm down strawman.
OP didn't ask if you would critique her choices she asked when and what meals she should replace not if she should replace them.
World must be looking mighty fine from that there high horse.
I don't care for herbal life stuff, but with the modicum of helpfulness that I can muster up for a random Internet person I try to funnel it into a useful reply. Not hate on her choices and tell her what she should do with her life and how she should spend her money.
Get over yourselves.
@Mr_Stabbems okay so she buys her own Herbal Life but will she also pay for the liver transplant(s), anti rejection medication & worse of all whose going to unnecessarily die because she received (a) liver(s), that could've saved someone whom didn't make a reckless choice but won't simply because she made it onto the list, before someone whom didn't intentionally ruin their liver did?
LOL I can show you studies that support flat earth and studies that support anti-vaxx nonsense etc etc etc. I have found that without a doubt you should ALWAYS believe stuff posted on internet blogs.
The company has been around since 1980. I agree it is overpriced and in all honestly the macro profiles of their shakes and protein powder are not the best. But, if they had been causing liver failure in everyone who drank a freaking shake over the last 36 years I doubt they would still be in business.0 -
shennin001 wrote: »I actually didn't know it was bad. I know it's not too realistic, but not bad. I researched online, but to be honest I am finding both Good and bad reports. Regardless, it's not something i want to stick to since i know there is no way i am going to drink a shake all My life, especially since it's so expensive. Oh and let me explain the boost part...I'm stuck at 220 lbs.! I've tried eating less and eating healthy, but I can't get down and it has me a little discouraged. Therefore, i decided to try herbal life to get me below the 220 and maybe the 200s, ha. I will definately look into those comments about it being bad for your liver. They changed their formula so i wonder if this is current. Anyways, Thank you all for your concerns and comments.
"Eating less" and "eating healthy" may still not be enough if you're not at a deficit.
I speak from experience. Started at 226 and had a very generic "I'MMA EAT LESS" goal. I didn't actually know, numerically, what to aim for, but boy did I try! I even gave MFP a couple of stabs, blindly aiming for the most aggressive goal while not quite understanding how they reached that number in the first place, and trying to consistently welllll below 1200 calories. Hell, if I can lose 2lbs/week on 1200, imagine 1000! Or 800! I got cranky, irritable, and always ended up nuking my deficit when I would inevitably get tired of drinking broth all the time. I spent months logging half-heartedly, restricting and binging, and trying every quick fix I knew. I still gained weight. I didn't start losing until I started reading posts and researching things like BMR, TDEE, and trying to understand WHY some could eat more than others, and why my numbers were what they were. My goal is still 1200/day, but I also know that below a certain higher number, I'm still ok if I got over. And that alone helps. I also forced myself to be patient and accept no "quick fixes".
Weight loss is slow, and will definitely not going down in a perfect negative slope, but eat at a deficit and it WILL happen. I don't weigh all my foods, but after getting a scale I try to weigh as much as possible.
Just be patient. None of us get to this weight overnight. I would suggest saving your money and using towards rewards for kickin' *kitten* at becoming a better you 0 -
shennin001 wrote: »I actually didn't know it was bad. I know it's not too realistic, but not bad. I researched online, but to be honest I am finding both Good and bad reports. Regardless, it's not something i want to stick to since i know there is no way i am going to drink a shake all My life, especially since it's so expensive. Oh and let me explain the boost part...I'm stuck at 220 lbs.! I've tried eating less and eating healthy, but I can't get down and it has me a little discouraged. Therefore, i decided to try herbal life to get me below the 220 and maybe the 200s, ha. I will definately look into those comments about it being bad for your liver. They changed their formula so i wonder if this is current. Anyways, Thank you all for your concerns and comments.
The only experience I have had with Herbalife is seeing that stuff make my best friend so sick she ended up in the ER. I'm glad I didn't get sucked into that product and I will continue to stay far away from that.1 -
I just started my herbalife and I take my shake as breakfast! I lost 5 pounds in 4 days! I do 1 cup of milk 3 cups of water 2 scoops of healthy shake 1 scoop of the protein half banana and scoop of prolessa to stay full. Some ice if needed. Follow me and I will post 1 diary of my meals so u can see.0
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onestepcloser125 wrote: »I just started my herbalife and I take my shake as breakfast! I lost 5 pounds in 4 days! I do 1 cup of milk 3 cups of water 2 scoops of healthy shake 1 scoop of the protein half banana and scoop of prolessa to stay full. Some ice if needed. Follow me and I will post 1 diary of my meals so u can see.
If true, congrats on losing so much water weight.
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Smh-the shade from "missus"1
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I'm on day 16 of Slim Fast and have lost 9 lb so far so I completely understand what you mean by a little boost. I Don't know anything about Herbal Life personally but I have noticed there is a group on here for people following that. Maybe you could join that and get more info and support there.0
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Just a word of caution to OP. I've done Herbalife 11 years ago in hopes of losing weight and I did. In a month or two I've lost 20lbs and at that time it was all I needed however it wasn't something I could sustain for the rest of my life and I stopped. I gained weight with vengeance, I went to pile on 50lbs in a matter of a year.
There is no magic pill or potion out there otherwise we all would be slim and world wouldn't have obesity problem. It's education about food/exercise, determination and other things that will make you lose and keep it off.
If you are here please take your time to read through forums and educate yourself about portion control, calories in vs calories out etc and make comintement to yourself and you WILL lose weight and spare yourself some money (shakes don't cost little) in the process.
Have a good day!1 -
MissusMoon wrote: »onestepcloser125 wrote: »I just started my herbalife and I take my shake as breakfast! I lost 5 pounds in 4 days! I do 1 cup of milk 3 cups of water 2 scoops of healthy shake 1 scoop of the protein half banana and scoop of prolessa to stay full. Some ice if needed. Follow me and I will post 1 diary of my meals so u can see.
If true, congrats on losing so much water weight.
Like all diets, it would not just be water. They would lose some fat too. But generally large losses of weight quickly are due to: glycogen depletion, modifications of waste in ones bowl, modifications to water retention cause by sodium, fat and other lean body mass.0 -
teambellyring wrote: »Smh-the shade from "missus"
It's called truth. Smh.1 -
onestepcloser125 wrote: »I just started my herbalife and I take my shake as breakfast! I lost 5 pounds in 4 days! I do 1 cup of milk 3 cups of water 2 scoops of healthy shake 1 scoop of the protein half banana and scoop of prolessa to stay full. Some ice if needed. Follow me and I will post 1 diary of my meals so u can see.
Strong first post......don't tell me...you sell this crap0
This discussion has been closed.
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