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Fasting to correct autoimmune diseases??
Behxo
Posts: 1,190 Member
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/fasting-for-three-days-can-regenerate-entire-immune-system-study/
As for someone who suffers from severe eczema and alopecia areata (progressed to universalis last year) since a child I'm always trying to find a way to help heal it since visiting numerous doctors have never helped.
(Alopecia areata is a type of hair loss that occurs when your immune system mistakenly attacks hair follicles. Alopecia universalis (AU) or alopecia areata universalis is a medical condition involving rapid loss of all hair, including eyebrows and eyelashes. It is an advanced form of Alopecia areata. I'm wearing a wig in my profile photo.)
Reading this article really makes me raise my eyebrow for I highly doubt that this could be true. It also irritates me that it quotes "fasting for as little as three days" are you kidding me? Fasting for even half a day is difficult for me. For people that are desperate to help heal this could be a dangerous thing to try especially if they try to push more than 3 days. To help better my diseases I took up the autoimmune protocol paleo diet which is a temporary elimination diet, eating whole foods and keeping away from anything that could possibly aggravate your system which I believe is the better route to go. What are your opinions on this matter?
As for someone who suffers from severe eczema and alopecia areata (progressed to universalis last year) since a child I'm always trying to find a way to help heal it since visiting numerous doctors have never helped.
(Alopecia areata is a type of hair loss that occurs when your immune system mistakenly attacks hair follicles. Alopecia universalis (AU) or alopecia areata universalis is a medical condition involving rapid loss of all hair, including eyebrows and eyelashes. It is an advanced form of Alopecia areata. I'm wearing a wig in my profile photo.)
Reading this article really makes me raise my eyebrow for I highly doubt that this could be true. It also irritates me that it quotes "fasting for as little as three days" are you kidding me? Fasting for even half a day is difficult for me. For people that are desperate to help heal this could be a dangerous thing to try especially if they try to push more than 3 days. To help better my diseases I took up the autoimmune protocol paleo diet which is a temporary elimination diet, eating whole foods and keeping away from anything that could possibly aggravate your system which I believe is the better route to go. What are your opinions on this matter?
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Replies
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Dr Graham Rook, emeritus professor of immunology at University College London, said the study sounded "improbable".
ummm.2 -
Regardless of the validity of the study referenced in the article, I don't see how this would be good for auto-immune disease. If anything, it would allow auto-immune diseases to progress more quickly.4
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some people fast to burn sugar, or loose fat. That makes sense to me. I don't see how it would help auto immune disease. Eating for nutrition could only help though. Best.1
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midwesterner85 wrote: »Regardless of the validity of the study referenced in the article, I don't see how this would be good for auto-immune disease. If anything, it would allow auto-immune diseases to progress more quickly.
agreed. your body needs nutrition to stay healthy. fasting doesn't help with that.
i see a lot of people advocating exclusionary diets for controlling autoimmunes. i found just eating healthy, getting exercise, and getting rest, along with working with my many doctors to manage my symptoms0 -
Hard to say based on a single study, however, there is mounting evidence on the benefits of fasting...see the TedX talk by Dr. Mark Mattson on fasting. He is a professor of neuroscience at Johns Hopkins and the lead at the National Institutes on Aging's laboratory that focuses on neurodegenerative diseases (e.g., Parkinsons and Alzheimers).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UkZAwKoCP8 5 -
There is studies (and I can go find the links when I get some time) that fasting can reverse certain things in the body like new cell turn over, cells that may cause cancer, dementia, and cholesterol, diabetes non auto immune, but things like Lupus, RA, MS, etc.. shows no evidence of being able to reduce or stop production through fasting..
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I guess when I was on my deathbed in a horrible flare of Crohn's disease (an autoimmune disease) instead of being put on TPN they should have just let me starve? LOL. Any Crohn's or UC patient there are many times we are on liquid diet and that doesn't make the disease better (other than bowel rest). As well, there when ill there is a lot of malabsorption going on so we are continuously "fasting" and that definitely didn't improve the disease.12
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midwesterner85 wrote: »Regardless of the validity of the study referenced in the article, I don't see how this would be good for auto-immune disease. If anything, it would allow auto-immune diseases to progress more quickly.
agreed. your body needs nutrition to stay healthy. fasting doesn't help with that.
i see a lot of people advocating exclusionary diets for controlling autoimmunes. i found just eating healthy, getting exercise, and getting rest, along with working with my many doctors to manage my symptoms
That wasn't my point, so perhaps I should clarify. I haven't read the actual study, but from skimming the article, it looks like the conclusion is that fasting improves immune system function. An auto-immune disease results from the body's own immune system attacking a part of our body. If the findings of the study are valid, and our immune system is improved by fasting, then a person with an auto-immune disease will logically see the auto-immune disease progress more quickly.
Example: One of the auto-immune diseases I have is type 1 diabetes. This occurs because my immune system attacks the islets of langerhans, aka "beta cells" (part of the pancreas). At this point, it wouldn't matter because I basically have no beta cells remaining. However, if my immune system suddenly improved during the time it was still working on killing beta cells, then it would kill those beta cells even faster.
Again, I just skimmed the article, but didn't see anything about auto-immune diseases. OP brought up and applied the article to auto-immune disease. I'm just trying to insert some logic into that correlation.1 -
You can't heal autoimmune. That's why "visiting numerous doctors" hasn't helped.4
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midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Regardless of the validity of the study referenced in the article, I don't see how this would be good for auto-immune disease. If anything, it would allow auto-immune diseases to progress more quickly.
agreed. your body needs nutrition to stay healthy. fasting doesn't help with that.
i see a lot of people advocating exclusionary diets for controlling autoimmunes. i found just eating healthy, getting exercise, and getting rest, along with working with my many doctors to manage my symptoms
That wasn't my point, so perhaps I should clarify. I haven't read the actual study, but from skimming the article, it looks like the conclusion is that fasting improves immune system function. An auto-immune disease results from the body's own immune system attacking a part of our body. If the findings of the study are valid, and our immune system is improved by fasting, then a person with an auto-immune disease will logically see the auto-immune disease progress more quickly.
Example: One of the auto-immune diseases I have is type 1 diabetes. This occurs because my immune system attacks the islets of langerhans, aka "beta cells" (part of the pancreas). At this point, it wouldn't matter because I basically have no beta cells remaining. However, if my immune system suddenly improved during the time it was still working on killing beta cells, then it would kill those beta cells even faster.
Again, I just skimmed the article, but didn't see anything about auto-immune diseases. OP brought up and applied the article to auto-immune disease. I'm just trying to insert some logic into that correlation.
I replied before reading too. I figure she means that if we get a "new" immune system perhaps it will fix the defect? It is definitely more complicated than that since at least in Crohn's (I haven't researched other AI diseases) they don't know what causes the immune system to overreact in the first place. Making the immune system stronger really is a bad thing if the reason it is overeacting is not fixed. I am medically immunosuppressed and rather risk infection than have super active disease. I know if I stop my drugs (I'm on an Anti-TNF-a -anti-tumour necrosis factor alpha biologic and a more genral immunomodifier) I would become a lot more ill!0 -
I suffer from Lupus, another Autoimmune disease and the last thing i should be doing is fasting. (my disease attacks healthy organs and joints.) I cant see any correlation between the benefits of fasting on the effects of an autoimmune disease. it's all about healthy blood, carrying the correct nutrients for my body to function properly, a healthy diet and the medication i'll take until hell freezes over lol.3
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I suffer from Lupus, another Autoimmune disease and the last thing i should be doing is fasting. (my disease attacks healthy organs and joints.) I cant see any correlation between the benefits of fasting on the effects of an autoimmune disease. it's all about healthy blood, carrying the correct nutrients for my body to function properly, a healthy diet and the medication i'll take until hell freezes over lol.
exactly1 -
i_miss_donuts wrote: »Hard to say based on a single study, however, there is mounting evidence on the benefits of fasting...see the TedX talk by Dr. Mark Mattson on fasting. He is a professor of neuroscience at Johns Hopkins and the lead at the National Institutes on Aging's laboratory that focuses on neurodegenerative diseases (e.g., Parkinsons and Alzheimers).
Mark Mattson's work is interesting, but it is not focused on autoimmune diseases.
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singingflutelady wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Regardless of the validity of the study referenced in the article, I don't see how this would be good for auto-immune disease. If anything, it would allow auto-immune diseases to progress more quickly.
agreed. your body needs nutrition to stay healthy. fasting doesn't help with that.
i see a lot of people advocating exclusionary diets for controlling autoimmunes. i found just eating healthy, getting exercise, and getting rest, along with working with my many doctors to manage my symptoms
That wasn't my point, so perhaps I should clarify. I haven't read the actual study, but from skimming the article, it looks like the conclusion is that fasting improves immune system function. An auto-immune disease results from the body's own immune system attacking a part of our body. If the findings of the study are valid, and our immune system is improved by fasting, then a person with an auto-immune disease will logically see the auto-immune disease progress more quickly.
Example: One of the auto-immune diseases I have is type 1 diabetes. This occurs because my immune system attacks the islets of langerhans, aka "beta cells" (part of the pancreas). At this point, it wouldn't matter because I basically have no beta cells remaining. However, if my immune system suddenly improved during the time it was still working on killing beta cells, then it would kill those beta cells even faster.
Again, I just skimmed the article, but didn't see anything about auto-immune diseases. OP brought up and applied the article to auto-immune disease. I'm just trying to insert some logic into that correlation.
I replied before reading too. I figure she means that if we get a "new" immune system perhaps it will fix the defect? It is definitely more complicated than that since at least in Crohn's (I haven't researched other AI diseases) they don't know what causes the immune system to overreact in the first place. Making the immune system stronger really is a bad thing if the reason it is overeacting is not fixed. I am medically immunosuppressed and rather risk infection than have super active disease. I know if I stop my drugs (I'm on an Anti-TNF-a -anti-tumour necrosis factor alpha biologic and a more genral immunomodifier) I would become a lot more ill!
Yea sorry that's what I meant to say, didn't clarify enough. Immune problems are always so fun to deal with =/0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Regardless of the validity of the study referenced in the article, I don't see how this would be good for auto-immune disease. If anything, it would allow auto-immune diseases to progress more quickly.
agreed. your body needs nutrition to stay healthy. fasting doesn't help with that.
i see a lot of people advocating exclusionary diets for controlling autoimmunes. i found just eating healthy, getting exercise, and getting rest, along with working with my many doctors to manage my symptoms
That wasn't my point, so perhaps I should clarify. I haven't read the actual study, but from skimming the article, it looks like the conclusion is that fasting improves immune system function. An auto-immune disease results from the body's own immune system attacking a part of our body. If the findings of the study are valid, and our immune system is improved by fasting, then a person with an auto-immune disease will logically see the auto-immune disease progress more quickly.
Example: One of the auto-immune diseases I have is type 1 diabetes. This occurs because my immune system attacks the islets of langerhans, aka "beta cells" (part of the pancreas). At this point, it wouldn't matter because I basically have no beta cells remaining. However, if my immune system suddenly improved during the time it was still working on killing beta cells, then it would kill those beta cells even faster.
Again, I just skimmed the article, but didn't see anything about auto-immune diseases. OP brought up and applied the article to auto-immune disease. I'm just trying to insert some logic into that correlation.
I replied before reading too. I figure she means that if we get a "new" immune system perhaps it will fix the defect? It is definitely more complicated than that since at least in Crohn's (I haven't researched other AI diseases) they don't know what causes the immune system to overreact in the first place. Making the immune system stronger really is a bad thing if the reason it is overeacting is not fixed. I am medically immunosuppressed and rather risk infection than have super active disease. I know if I stop my drugs (I'm on an Anti-TNF-a -anti-tumour necrosis factor alpha biologic and a more genral immunomodifier) I would become a lot more ill!
In a case like mine, the attacked cells will not regenerate. Once they are gone, that is it. This is why I don't make insulin and never will make insulin. Some of the research into a cure for type 1 has been about how to re-generate or to implant beta cells. Some type 1's have had transplanted pancreases... but the issue is that our immune system will immediately kill it. So those patients actually need to suppress their immune system... the opposite of what the article suggests will result from fasting.
As far as what causes auto-immune diseases, I have type 1 diabetes and Hashimoto's so I've done a fair amount of reading into studies on this. The research has come a long way in the last decade or so, but even 21 years ago when I was first diagnosed with type 1, we knew there was both a genetic component and a trigger. Today, we know that the genetic component is carried on the HLA genes on chromosome 21. The trigger is a bit more complicated because it is different from person to person. Almost always, it is something the immune system SHOULD fight and the immune system gets confused while fighting an actual foreign body. Sometimes people in type 1 groups will say they got type 1 because they had chicken pox, or influenza, or some other virus. That is only the trigger, though... everyone who has type 1 has to have the HLA genes that cause it first. But only about 1 in 20 who have the genes actually end up having something trigger the auto-immune response. And once that happens, the better a person's immune system is, the sooner they lose all beta cells. This is the reason that children have much shorter "honeymoon" periods (the time between the beginning of the auto-immune attack and when all or nearly all beta cells are destroyed). In many adults, the honeymoon period is so long and slow that the symptoms mimic type 2. Just within the last several years, the medical community has started calling this a separate disease (LADA or type 1.5), though it is just adult-onset type 1. Prior to availability of anti-body testing, many adult-onset type 1 patients were misdiagnosed as type 2 based on symptoms. They just didn't tend to have the sudden loss of beta cells that younger patients had. But again, if the immune response were to be improved, these patients would actually lose beta cells more quickly and would see higher rises in BG and need insulin therapy earlier. So if it is correct that fasting improves immune function, then fasting should be contra-indicated for those in early stages of auto-immune disease.1 -
For Inflammatory Bowel disease there is thought to be a genetic link (most people have other family members with BID or another autoimmune disorder). I don't have anyone in my family with IBD but my dad has an autoimmune kidney disease and my aunt has fibro and RA. There are tons of theories on causes. Some say it can occur after gastroenteritis or other infection, some say it's linked to the hygiene theory (that being too hygienic can mess up the gut bacteria causing issues), there's a phase 1 trial starting this summer for an anti MAP vaccine ( a bacteria that causes a livestock version of IBD called Johne's disease) which is in milk from contaminated cattle as every IBD patient they tested had this bacteria (but it is probably in a large amount of non IBD people too), they think cold weather might trigger it (Canada has the highest rate in the world with 1 in 150 having it and it is basically non existent in africa, asia, etc or maybe something in our diet? who knows. A strange thing is that in Canada they are finding that children of immigrants from countries/ethnicities that have a very low incidence rate and have no family history are developing IBD. Also the rate of those diagnosed under the age of 10 has doubled since 1995.
They've tried intestinal transplants but all have failed with the disease coming back within 3 months. In Crohn's if they remove the affected part of your intestines it will return to another part anywhere in your GI track. In UC the intestinal manifestations are limited to the large intestine so you can have your large intestine removed and be free of the intestinal symptoms (but still get the lovely systemic symptoms like joint pain, skin rashes, eye problems, other autoimmune diseases). Because of all the inflammation our risk of developing colorectal or small intestine cancers are higher than the general population.
Autoimmune diseases are very complicated for sure.
I do agree that keeping my immune system suppressed has helped a lot. I am in a lot of FB groups and always see people asking what they should take to improve their immune system because they are always sick while on biologics and other immunomodifiers. Um, that's definitely NOT what you want to do unless you have a serious infection. Notonly are the symptoms annoying but the inflammation damages the intestines and you develop bleeding ulcers, fistulae, fissures, potential perforation, malabsorption, dehydration, higher risk of cancer and obvisouly death from going untreated and it's permanent damage as you get tons of scar tissue, polyps, strictures (that can lead to obstructions) and lots of other problems.
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That isn't really something you can control. It either happens or it doesn't. Autoimmune is a bltch and has a mind of its own. Doctors can treat it and that's about it.1 -
That isn't really something you can control. It either happens or it doesn't. Autoimmune is a bltch and has a mind of its own. Doctors can treat it and that's about it.
Yes I do agree. The biologics and other immunomodifiers really help a lot of people but they are a life long drug you have to take. Also biologics eventually will fail when your body develops antibodies to them and once you stop taking them you flare badly. I've never been in comlete remission (I still have inflammation as seen in a colonoscopy) but I am much improved and can leave the house because of Remicade but I fear that any day it can stop working (I've been on it a year and a half so my risk of developing antibodies is high)0 -
if anything, fasting increases hair loss, it's one of the major side effects experienced, it makes hair brittle and weak, and can make it fall out faster, or get to the point where it comes out in clumps and handfuls. Seems a little counterproductive1
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I lost nmore than half my hair from malabsorption and severe chronic anaemia last year, so yeah, hair loss is an issue.
Actually now that I think about it this is horrible news for the IBD community since as I said when flaring it is difficult to eat and everything you eat goes right through you and the nutrients don't get absorbed so you are in a constant state of malnutrition. It is bad that that would strengthen our immune system because as was pointed out that would be the worst thing possible!0 -
I have an auto-immune disease, and I did a water-only-fast for 5 days just because I was feeling so awful. Not only did it help with joint pain, it helped me fight off a cold I was coming down with. I have never been able to "fight" a cold off, normally if I'm sick - I'm sick as a dog. I took vitamins and supplements during the fast, but that was all. I lost 10 lbs, and have NOT gained it back. And I've continued to lose weight. When I got off the fast, I started on fruit and veggies and lean protein. My face was clearing up, my skin was really hydrated, and I slept well. I probably should do it occasionally. Since I started to eat grains and other "regular" American food - I have noticed I am not feeling well again. My normal day is like living with the flu aches and pains, fever, but without the stomach bug part. When I was water-fasting that flu-like pain went away. I guess it depends on your body, what disease you have, your mindset and will power, and other factors. When people are negative, and say 'oh that's bad for you', or 'you'll just gain the weight back' or whatever the negativity is... well, they have made up their minds for themselves, and they are going to get bad results. Most things really are mind over matter. Also, many doctors have mentioned to me personally, that some auto-immune diseases can be aggravated by poor diets loaded with sugar and gluten, because poor diets can cause internal inflammation. So, if your body is taking a break from all food, your body can and will repair itself from damage, because it is "resting" by not having to deal with the daily food intake, and you're not taking in the things that aggravate the condition. I'd suggest anyone with an open attitude to *try* it, and if it doesn't work for you, then don't do it. With the pain I'm in everyday, I was ready to try something else, and not get a prescription drug from the doctor, which can lead to more problems and/or dependence. (And I don't mean 'dependence' as if it were 'abuse.' What I mean is, some people will need to keep taking the prescription to keep up the results, because they haven't fixed the problem, whatever it is.) But every person has to make their own choices and knows what they can and can't deal with. No judgement here. And I hope you find something that helps, or that works, whatever it is.2
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I have MS, and am chronically anemic and suck at absorbing iron, magnesium and b vitamins. Also known to have the blood pressure of a corpse. Tried fasting once, for a dietary perspective and nothing to do with the disease itself. Still took my regular medication and supplements. After 1.5 days i gave up. I has such bad leg spasms and lightheadedness that i couldn't stand for days after, ended up being hospitalized as i blacked out on day 6. Anectodal, yes, but i don't think fasting is in my best interest.1
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If you fast long enough you'll have no problems to worry about6
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CleanSlate2015 wrote: »I have an auto-immune disease, and I did a water-only-fast for 5 days just because I was feeling so awful. Not only did it help with joint pain, it helped me fight off a cold I was coming down with. I have never been able to "fight" a cold off, normally if I'm sick - I'm sick as a dog. I took vitamins and supplements during the fast, but that was all. I lost 10 lbs, and have NOT gained it back. And I've continued to lose weight. When I got off the fast, I started on fruit and veggies and lean protein. My face was clearing up, my skin was really hydrated, and I slept well. I probably should do it occasionally. Since I started to eat grains and other "regular" American food - I have noticed I am not feeling well again. My normal day is like living with the flu aches and pains, fever, but without the stomach bug part. When I was water-fasting that flu-like pain went away. I guess it depends on your body, what disease you have, your mindset and will power, and other factors. When people are negative, and say 'oh that's bad for you', or 'you'll just gain the weight back' or whatever the negativity is... well, they have made up their minds for themselves, and they are going to get bad results. Most things really are mind over matter. Also, many doctors have mentioned to me personally, that some auto-immune diseases can be aggravated by poor diets loaded with sugar and gluten, because poor diets can cause internal inflammation. So, if your body is taking a break from all food, your body can and will repair itself from damage, because it is "resting" by not having to deal with the daily food intake, and you're not taking in the things that aggravate the condition. I'd suggest anyone with an open attitude to *try* it, and if it doesn't work for you, then don't do it. With the pain I'm in everyday, I was ready to try something else, and not get a prescription drug from the doctor, which can lead to more problems and/or dependence. (And I don't mean 'dependence' as if it were 'abuse.' What I mean is, some people will need to keep taking the prescription to keep up the results, because they haven't fixed the problem, whatever it is.) But every person has to make their own choices and knows what they can and can't deal with. No judgement here. And I hope you find something that helps, or that works, whatever it is.
you know with autoimmune disease there is no "fixing the problem" as there is no cure yet right?4 -
I don't get how drugs like Rituximab are somehow not as effective as skipping dinner.3
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paulgads82 wrote: »I don't get how drugs like Rituximab are somehow not as effective as skipping dinner.
LOL yup. I'm on Infliximab but should just skip dinner I guess2 -
Fasting slows down everything. So immune responses are among the first things the body stops doing if there is not enough energy coming in. Its not a cure.
Many people have claimed to cure many diseases by the fast method. Its easy to see how it works. The body is just shutting down one by one the least necessary business. Eventually hair falls out. Not so necessary is hair compared to hearts beating.
Hormones will deplete, including digestive secretions too, until food itself can't be digested, no more digestive troubles.
Depends on how far you want to go I guess.
Fasting isn't a cure, it just slows down things, until they stop.1 -
My perspective on this has changed over time due to the experiences I have had.
I have CRPS, Sjorgrens, (sp) SLE with vasculitis.
At 35 I developed the CRPS and it quickly became something that seemed to affect every major system in my body. There were time when eating was literally impossible due to the IBS and cramping.....at the time the "rest" from food seemed to be helpful in managing symptoms.
Fast forward to 3 + years ago my health deteriorated further and finally Lupus was found.
I had already eliminated gluten from my diet due to having ulcerative colitis but that loss was marginal in its benefit.
I happily admit that that the idea of fasting to help or 'cure' my symptoms/illnesses is tempting. I have had over these last awful years been on what I would call 'enforced' fasts just because I am too ill to eat.
There comes a big price to pay though - I do HAVE to take steroids, Plaquenil, Mycophenolate and opiods to have any sort of life at all and fasting when taking medications can set you up for more digestive problems in the long run.
I realize the OP's intention is to be free of taking steroids but for some/many with auto-immune disease they are a life-saver and I hope I never have to go back to the dark place I was in before properly medicated.
I have found that after fasting my health is worse. Maybe it is to do with strengthening the immune response, which is just about the worst thing you can do it your immune system is already intent upon attacking itself.
Just be careful. Be mindful too, that when you are ill, chronically so, it is VERY tempting to want to try/believe that there is a different long term solution that will get you away from the awful symptoms of both the disease and the side effects of the meds. you may have been advised to take.
In this state of desperation we can make choices that can have long term negative consequences that we cannot foresee...and the last thing we need is to end up sicker through trying something that had sketchy benefit ascribed to it at best.
Just my 2 cents.5 -
About the only way I can see fasting helping is by reducing inflammation.... That's about it. I have several autoimmune issues too and I find avoiding a lot of carbs and sugars helps me with my energy and and reduces inflammation somewhat. No fix though.... and the darn steroids led to insulin resistance. Pfft. Avoiding sugars helps with that too, LOL
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