Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

Fasting to correct autoimmune diseases??

Options
245

Replies

  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    I lost nmore than half my hair from malabsorption and severe chronic anaemia last year, so yeah, hair loss is an issue.

    Actually now that I think about it this is horrible news for the IBD community since as I said when flaring it is difficult to eat and everything you eat goes right through you and the nutrients don't get absorbed so you are in a constant state of malnutrition. It is bad that that would strengthen our immune system because as was pointed out that would be the worst thing possible!
  • CaptainPepperJack
    CaptainPepperJack Posts: 46 Member
    Options
    I have an auto-immune disease, and I did a water-only-fast for 5 days just because I was feeling so awful. Not only did it help with joint pain, it helped me fight off a cold I was coming down with. I have never been able to "fight" a cold off, normally if I'm sick - I'm sick as a dog. I took vitamins and supplements during the fast, but that was all. I lost 10 lbs, and have NOT gained it back. And I've continued to lose weight. When I got off the fast, I started on fruit and veggies and lean protein. My face was clearing up, my skin was really hydrated, and I slept well. I probably should do it occasionally. Since I started to eat grains and other "regular" American food - I have noticed I am not feeling well again. My normal day is like living with the flu aches and pains, fever, but without the stomach bug part. When I was water-fasting that flu-like pain went away. I guess it depends on your body, what disease you have, your mindset and will power, and other factors. When people are negative, and say 'oh that's bad for you', or 'you'll just gain the weight back' or whatever the negativity is... well, they have made up their minds for themselves, and they are going to get bad results. Most things really are mind over matter. Also, many doctors have mentioned to me personally, that some auto-immune diseases can be aggravated by poor diets loaded with sugar and gluten, because poor diets can cause internal inflammation. So, if your body is taking a break from all food, your body can and will repair itself from damage, because it is "resting" by not having to deal with the daily food intake, and you're not taking in the things that aggravate the condition. I'd suggest anyone with an open attitude to *try* it, and if it doesn't work for you, then don't do it. With the pain I'm in everyday, I was ready to try something else, and not get a prescription drug from the doctor, which can lead to more problems and/or dependence. (And I don't mean 'dependence' as if it were 'abuse.' What I mean is, some people will need to keep taking the prescription to keep up the results, because they haven't fixed the problem, whatever it is.) But every person has to make their own choices and knows what they can and can't deal with. No judgement here. And I hope you find something that helps, or that works, whatever it is.
  • robot_potato
    robot_potato Posts: 1,535 Member
    edited June 2016
    Options
    I have MS, and am chronically anemic and suck at absorbing iron, magnesium and b vitamins. Also known to have the blood pressure of a corpse. Tried fasting once, for a dietary perspective and nothing to do with the disease itself. Still took my regular medication and supplements. After 1.5 days i gave up. I has such bad leg spasms and lightheadedness that i couldn't stand for days after, ended up being hospitalized as i blacked out on day 6. Anectodal, yes, but i don't think fasting is in my best interest.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    CleanSlate2015 wrote: »
    I have an auto-immune disease, and I did a water-only-fast for 5 days just because I was feeling so awful. Not only did it help with joint pain, it helped me fight off a cold I was coming down with. I have never been able to "fight" a cold off, normally if I'm sick - I'm sick as a dog. I took vitamins and supplements during the fast, but that was all. I lost 10 lbs, and have NOT gained it back. And I've continued to lose weight. When I got off the fast, I started on fruit and veggies and lean protein. My face was clearing up, my skin was really hydrated, and I slept well. I probably should do it occasionally. Since I started to eat grains and other "regular" American food - I have noticed I am not feeling well again. My normal day is like living with the flu aches and pains, fever, but without the stomach bug part. When I was water-fasting that flu-like pain went away. I guess it depends on your body, what disease you have, your mindset and will power, and other factors. When people are negative, and say 'oh that's bad for you', or 'you'll just gain the weight back' or whatever the negativity is... well, they have made up their minds for themselves, and they are going to get bad results. Most things really are mind over matter. Also, many doctors have mentioned to me personally, that some auto-immune diseases can be aggravated by poor diets loaded with sugar and gluten, because poor diets can cause internal inflammation. So, if your body is taking a break from all food, your body can and will repair itself from damage, because it is "resting" by not having to deal with the daily food intake, and you're not taking in the things that aggravate the condition. I'd suggest anyone with an open attitude to *try* it, and if it doesn't work for you, then don't do it. With the pain I'm in everyday, I was ready to try something else, and not get a prescription drug from the doctor, which can lead to more problems and/or dependence. (And I don't mean 'dependence' as if it were 'abuse.' What I mean is, some people will need to keep taking the prescription to keep up the results, because they haven't fixed the problem, whatever it is.) But every person has to make their own choices and knows what they can and can't deal with. No judgement here. And I hope you find something that helps, or that works, whatever it is.

    you know with autoimmune disease there is no "fixing the problem" as there is no cure yet right?
  • paulgads82
    paulgads82 Posts: 256 Member
    Options
    I don't get how drugs like Rituximab are somehow not as effective as skipping dinner.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    paulgads82 wrote: »
    I don't get how drugs like Rituximab are somehow not as effective as skipping dinner.

    LOL yup. I'm on Infliximab but should just skip dinner I guess
  • Gamliela
    Gamliela Posts: 2,468 Member
    Options
    Fasting slows down everything. So immune responses are among the first things the body stops doing if there is not enough energy coming in. Its not a cure.

    Many people have claimed to cure many diseases by the fast method. Its easy to see how it works. The body is just shutting down one by one the least necessary business. Eventually hair falls out. Not so necessary is hair compared to hearts beating.
    Hormones will deplete, including digestive secretions too, until food itself can't be digested, no more digestive troubles.
    Depends on how far you want to go I guess.

    Fasting isn't a cure, it just slows down things, until they stop.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Options
    About the only way I can see fasting helping is by reducing inflammation.... That's about it. I have several autoimmune issues too and I find avoiding a lot of carbs and sugars helps me with my energy and and reduces inflammation somewhat. No fix though.... and the darn steroids led to insulin resistance. Pfft. Avoiding sugars helps with that too, LOL ;)
  • goldthistime
    goldthistime Posts: 3,214 Member
    Options
    I think evidence points to fasting helping people with autoimmune diseases vs improving your immune system and worsening your auto immune disease.

    The first study is recent and is pretty interesting. The second journal article is a review of existing studies.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27239035

    Abstract
    Dietary interventions have not been effective in the treatment of multiple sclerosis (MS). Here, we show that periodic 3-day cycles of a fasting mimicking diet (FMD) are effective in ameliorating demyelination and symptoms in a murine experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE) model. The FMD reduced clinical severity in all mice and completely reversed symptoms in 20% of animals. These improvements were associated with increased corticosterone levels and regulatory T (Treg) cell numbers and reduced levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines, TH1 and TH17 cells, and antigen-presenting cells (APCs). Moreover, the FMD promoted oligodendrocyte precursor cell regeneration and remyelination in axons in both EAE and cuprizone MS models, supporting its effects on both suppression of autoimmunity and remyelination. We also report preliminary data suggesting that an FMD or a chronic ketogenic diet are safe, feasible, and potentially effective in the treatment of relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis (RRMS) patients (NCT01538355).

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24434759

    Abstract
    Periods of deliberate fasting with restriction of solid food intake are practiced worldwide, mostly based on traditional, cultural or religious reasons. There is large empirical and observational evidence that medically supervised modified fasting (fasting cure, 200-500 kcal nutritional intake per day) with periods of 7-21 days is efficacious in the treatment of rheumatic diseases, chronic pain syndromes, hypertension, and metabolic syndrome. The beneficial effects of fasting followed by vegetarian diet in rheumatoid arthritis are confirmed by randomized controlled trials. Further beneficial effects of fasting are supported by observational data and abundant evidence from experimental research which found caloric restriction and intermittent fasting being associated with deceleration or prevention of most chronic degenerative and chronic inflammatory diseases. Intermittent fasting may also be useful as an accompanying treatment during chemotherapy of cancer. A further beneficial effect of fasting relates to improvements in sustainable lifestyle modification and adoption of a healthy diet, possibly mediated by fasting-induced mood enhancement. Various identified mechanisms of fasting point to its potential health-promoting effects, e.g., fasting-induced neuroendocrine activation and hormetic stress response, increased production of neurotrophic factors, reduced mitochondrial oxidative stress, general decrease of signals associated with aging, and promotion of autophagy. Fasting therapy might contribute to the prevention and treatment of chronic diseases and should be further evaluated in controlled clinical trials and observational studies.





  • wackyfunster
    wackyfunster Posts: 944 Member
    Options
    Lots of confusion here. A 3-day fast works by stimulating production of a variety of proteins that are not typically expressed (FOXO for example) which results in accelerated autophagy and increased cell proliferation (following reintroduction of food). Basically, your body breaks down old/weak/damaged cells, and then when you start eating again produces a bunch of new healthy cells. Research is still emerging on this topic, but there is enough evidence to suggest that a 72-hour fast every 6-12 months can help with general health.

    Honestly, fasting for 72 hours is not any harder than fasting for 24 hours... once you make it past the first day the physiological hunger goes away. If you have issues with shorter fasts, that is generally a sign of impaired glucose metabolism (e.g. prediabetes). You may want to look into intermittent fasting for a bit until that normalizes before trying a longer fast.
  • Sarc_Warrior
    Sarc_Warrior Posts: 430 Member
    Options
    Eat healthy. Follow your doctors advice. The Internet is full of dangerous and unhelpful opinions and advice.
  • paulgads82
    paulgads82 Posts: 256 Member
    Options
    TannedTiger wrote: »
    I have been fasting for 8 days, (sunrise to sunset, no water either) and I seem to be doing fine. I lost 6lbs, even though I don't want to lose weight.

    Which AI illness do you have?
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    TannedTiger wrote: »
    I have been fasting for 8 days, (sunrise to sunset, no water either) and I seem to be doing fine. I lost 6lbs, even though I don't want to lose weight.

    I don't think that's the fasting they are talking about. It sounds more like it is a complete fast.
  • MarziPanda95
    MarziPanda95 Posts: 1,326 Member
    Options
    I also have alopecia (areata, though at one point I did have totalis and then got regrowth with DCP treatment) and occasionally I do intermittent fasting. It hasn't helped. I also have ITP, where my immune system attacks my blood platelets. Thankfully I had a course of rituximab in January 2015 and my platelets have been at normal levels ever since, though my AA is still active. I don't personally believe a fast would help with something that is in our genetics. Even if it temporarily helps, new cells would still have your genes, and still attack the follicles.
  • goldthistime
    goldthistime Posts: 3,214 Member
    edited June 2016
    Options
    MarziPanda95 wrote: »
    I also have alopecia (areata, though at one point I did have totalis and then got regrowth with DCP treatment) and occasionally I do intermittent fasting. It hasn't helped. I also have ITP, where my immune system attacks my blood platelets. Thankfully I had a course of rituximab in January 2015 and my platelets have been at normal levels ever since, though my AA is still active. I don't personally believe a fast would help with something that is in our genetics. Even if it temporarily helps, new cells would still have your genes, and still attack the follicles.

    I have no strong convictions about fasting and auto immune diseases, but I might argue that just because AI is genetic does not mean that a fast couldn't significantly reduce symptoms. Many people suffer "bouts" of increased activity. Maybe something is triggering that increased activity. It doesn't seem impossible that something like periodic fasting could prevent it being triggered, shorten the duration or lessen the severity.

    "Cure" doesn't seem like a word you could use here. Even the phrase "completely reversed symptoms in 20% of animals" raised my eyebrows. Reducing symptoms alone is interesting enough.

    Btw, sorry that IF hasn't helped you. The journal articles I posted spoke of RA and MS only. Still, if it were me, I would consider trying the 3-day FMD stuff (lower calories and especially lower protein). Perhaps there is a difference between your version of IF and this 3-day FMD.
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    Options
    rml_16 wrote: »
    You can't heal autoimmune. That's why "visiting numerous doctors" hasn't helped.

    My beef with the above statement is, it is untrue. We've had two autoimmune diseases in my home and both have been completely healed. Neither with drugs. IC and ITP. It was a long 6yrs but we did it and I have no issue giving full credit to the natural doctors that helped us and the unbelievable amount of work it was to manage diets to make it happen (practically living in the kitchen). AI's can be healed. Given what it needs, the body was created to heal. To each his own, but I'm happy we're on the other side. And please don't discourage others who are working in that direction. If it doesn't work for them, then so be it. But they have the right to explore, research, and try just as those who wish to try whatever drugs are offered to them do.

    On the issue of fasting for resetting the immune system I don't really have an opinion as we haven't tried it specifically for that (we've done 24hr fasts for other reasons). A close friend's son has JRA and his rheumatologist just this week told them they know (but don't understand why) that short term fasting *can* (not always) be helpful in modulating the immune system. In their case (they had an unintended "fast" due to illness) it actually did work for him. He's now been 10 weeks without methotrexate for the first time in 7 years. And it could be a combination of the not being able to eat for 3 days and/or all the natural treatments they've been doing. Who knows? And they don't really care. Whatever works........

Categories