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Soy milk - Pros & Cons
Replies
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dopeysmelly wrote: »I love soya milk. The brand I drink costs the same as cow's milk. It's an acquired taste, it makes my porridge taste creamy without the fat of full fat milk, it has calcium and vitamin D, B2 and B12. I prefer it to almond and coconut milk (which is more expensive than Soya or cows milk)
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RaeBeeBaby wrote: »I avoid all food or drinks that contain soy, which is a bit tough because soy protein isolate, soybean oil and/or soy lecithin seems to be in just about all processed foods, including healthy nutrition bars, tuna fish, spaghetti sauce, and vitamin supplements. I read all labels very carefully!
Several of my health professionals (Western, Eastern and alternative medicine) have advised against it. Because it is an estrogen mimicker there are some who believe it can cause estrogen dominance, especially in women, with a subsequent greater risk of breast cancer.
Here's a list of some related studies:
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/studies-showing-adverse-effects-of-dietary-soy-1939-2008/
Although the above list doesn't contain links to the actual studies, they are named and dated so could be researched individually is someone chooses to research further.
Also, although I know the jury is still out on GMO's, my understanding is that the vast majority of soybeans grown, processed and sold in the US are genetically modified. Based on my limited knowledge, I think it's just wise for me to not eat or drink it.
For those who are concerned about the "estrogen" and "estrogen dominance" issues from consuming soy, I wonder: what of supermarket meat and dairy....
And, I'd be wary of using westonprice.org as the source. They have quite an agenda.
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janejellyroll wrote: »When you say "benefits," do you mean the benefits (if any) of replacing cow milk with soy milk? Or do you mean adding soy to the diet? Or something else?
Uh not in comparison. Benefits of soy milk as a product.0 -
Love soy, use 200g's unsweetened with 30g's vanilla flavoured protein shakes (and a pinch of cinnamon). Thats my go to breakfast and pre-workout meal deal. There are good cows and bad cows, the chemicals a dairy farmer pumps into his herd transfers into the fresh milk direct, no question about it.2
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I tolerate dairy very well, so I have no reason to drink soy or nut juice (no teat = not "milk"). I have gotten almond juice for my lactose intolerant husband and thought it tasted okay (he likes it on the rare occasion he eats cereal), but I'd never use it regularly. The cost alone is enough to turn me away. And it peeves me off that the popularity of nut juice (not so much soy juice tho) is driving up the price of almonds and cashews! It's crazytown
. Not sure, but it also strikes me that these nut juices would be lower in fat, and possibly lower in protein, and higher in carbs than milk, so they don't line up with my dietary needs as well. Now, if I were allergic to dairy or lactose intolerant I suppose I would be glad to have some viable alternatives. 1 -
I love the taste of soy milk but I do agree it varies by brand. In the UK the only brand I buy is alpro. The generic/supermarket brands taste awful.
I think almond milk is tasty but it's generally terrible for hot drinks and lacks protein.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »For those who are concerned about the "estrogen" and "estrogen dominance" issues from consuming soy, I wonder: what of supermarket meat and dairy....
The phytoestrogens in soy come in doses as much as ten million times higher than beef and dairy.
If you're a male eating hormone-treated beef, to raise your estrogen levels by 0.1% above the normal amount your body produces (aka to raise it by one part in 1000) you'd need to eat 2.25 pounds of beef per day. In typical amounts of consumption the hormonal effects of meat or dairy are negligible.
Soy is still up in the air - it's clear that it doesn't have as strong of an effect in humans that it does in other animals. In some it's a very serious reproductive inhibitor - which is, after all, the reason evolution produces phytoestrogens to begin with; they are chemical warfare against animal predation. That said, it definitely does bind to human estrogen receptors and definitely does alter estrogen signaling, so there are likely very real biological effects.
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rankinsect wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »For those who are concerned about the "estrogen" and "estrogen dominance" issues from consuming soy, I wonder: what of supermarket meat and dairy....
The phytoestrogens in soy come in doses as much as ten million times higher than beef and dairy.
If you're a male eating hormone-treated beef, to raise your estrogen levels by 0.1% above the normal amount your body produces (aka to raise it by one part in 1000) you'd need to eat 2.25 pounds of beef per day. In typical amounts of consumption the hormonal effects of meat or dairy are negligible.
Soy is still up in the air - it's clear that it doesn't have as strong of an effect in humans that it does in other animals. In some it's a very serious reproductive inhibitor - which is, after all, the reason evolution produces phytoestrogens to begin with; they are chemical warfare against animal predation. That said, it definitely does bind to human estrogen receptors and definitely does alter estrogen signaling, so there are likely very real biological effects.
I know there are biological effects. At least I'd assumed there were, given that virtually every menopause book tells us to eat MORE soy products (and other phytoestrogens) as they are thought to bind to the receptors with the end result that they lower estrogen (given that in menopause we have a relatively higher proportion of estrogen than progesterone. At least that's how I understand it.
With respect to cow products: I know there's less, but I don't know that the jury is "in" with respect to its effect on us. We know vegetarian children menstruate later than meat eating children, and we know that meat eating children are menstruating and developing much earlier than they used to but it's unclear why.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »For those who are concerned about the "estrogen" and "estrogen dominance" issues from consuming soy, I wonder: what of supermarket meat and dairy....
The phytoestrogens in soy come in doses as much as ten million times higher than beef and dairy.
If you're a male eating hormone-treated beef, to raise your estrogen levels by 0.1% above the normal amount your body produces (aka to raise it by one part in 1000) you'd need to eat 2.25 pounds of beef per day. In typical amounts of consumption the hormonal effects of meat or dairy are negligible.
Soy is still up in the air - it's clear that it doesn't have as strong of an effect in humans that it does in other animals. In some it's a very serious reproductive inhibitor - which is, after all, the reason evolution produces phytoestrogens to begin with; they are chemical warfare against animal predation. That said, it definitely does bind to human estrogen receptors and definitely does alter estrogen signaling, so there are likely very real biological effects.
I know there are biological effects. At least I'd assumed there were, given that virtually every menopause book tells us to eat MORE soy products (and other phytoestrogens) as they are thought to bind to the receptors with the end result that they lower estrogen (given that in menopause we have a relatively higher proportion of estrogen than progesterone. At least that's how I understand it.
With respect to cow products: I know there's less, but I don't know that the jury is "in" with respect to its effect on us. We know vegetarian children menstruate later than meat eating children, and we know that meat eating children are menstruating and developing much earlier than they used to but it's unclear why.
Isn't the general "claim" that in men it increases estrogen production?
I made a whole thread about soy long time ago and two articles were posted regarding studies showing estrogen claim was unfounded.
Every time a thread pops up I get scared because some of my protein comes via soya made products. Milk is almond or coconut but protein is soy and tofu and rarely cottage cheese.0 -
viren19890 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »For those who are concerned about the "estrogen" and "estrogen dominance" issues from consuming soy, I wonder: what of supermarket meat and dairy....
The phytoestrogens in soy come in doses as much as ten million times higher than beef and dairy.
If you're a male eating hormone-treated beef, to raise your estrogen levels by 0.1% above the normal amount your body produces (aka to raise it by one part in 1000) you'd need to eat 2.25 pounds of beef per day. In typical amounts of consumption the hormonal effects of meat or dairy are negligible.
Soy is still up in the air - it's clear that it doesn't have as strong of an effect in humans that it does in other animals. In some it's a very serious reproductive inhibitor - which is, after all, the reason evolution produces phytoestrogens to begin with; they are chemical warfare against animal predation. That said, it definitely does bind to human estrogen receptors and definitely does alter estrogen signaling, so there are likely very real biological effects.
I know there are biological effects. At least I'd assumed there were, given that virtually every menopause book tells us to eat MORE soy products (and other phytoestrogens) as they are thought to bind to the receptors with the end result that they lower estrogen (given that in menopause we have a relatively higher proportion of estrogen than progesterone. At least that's how I understand it.
With respect to cow products: I know there's less, but I don't know that the jury is "in" with respect to its effect on us. We know vegetarian children menstruate later than meat eating children, and we know that meat eating children are menstruating and developing much earlier than they used to but it's unclear why.
Isn't the general "claim" that in men it increases estrogen production?
I made a whole thread about soy long time ago and two articles were posted regarding studies showing estrogen claim was unfounded.
Every time a thread pops up I get scared because some of my protein comes via soya made products. Milk is almond or coconut but protein is soy and tofu and rarely cottage cheese.
The article linked above suggests that are conflicting results on studies of men.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24473985/?i=5&from=/26565435/related
as are the results of studies of animal products and estrogen
and the and the results of studies on estrogen in our drinking water.0 -
Love soy milk. And just read an article by Mayo Clinic that soy is healthy and not the culprit we thought it was.1
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It seems to me that they eat a lot of soy in Asian countries and do just fine.
Disclaimer: I'm highly allergic to soy, and annoyed it's added to so many foods.1 -
In Asian countries it'd unprocessed soy.
Here we eat it in burgers, hot dogs, etc. Too much processed.0 -
In asian countries NOW there's a combination of soy beans, miso etc and all the other stuff, actually.JanetYellen wrote: »In Asian countries it'd unprocessed soy.
Here we eat it in burgers, hot dogs, etc. Too much processed.
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JanetYellen wrote: »In Asian countries it'd unprocessed soy.
Here we eat it in burgers, hot dogs, etc. Too much processed.
Tofu, tempeh, and miso are processed.0 -
Cooking is processing. Fermenting is processing. Cutting is processing. Putting two ingredients together is processing .
"Processing " does not magically rob foods of their value, and it especially did not confer special new harmful properties on foods. It can be reasonably aid that the" processing "of foods is a major reason humans have succeeded so far as a species.5 -
Absolutely right. It's a semantics thing. There's processing, and there's "processing".Cooking is processing. Fermenting is processing. Cutting is processing. Putting two ingredients together is processing .
"Processing " does not magically rob foods of their value, and it especially did not confer special new harmful properties on foods. It can be reasonably aid that the" processing "of foods is a major reason humans have succeeded so far as a species.
Often these days a good amount of the nutrients are removed in some processing these days, thus the reason to "add them back" or "enrich" them. (though studies are mixed as to whether our bodies handle added enrichments the way they handled the originals.) And a good amount of other stuff that wasn't formerly part of the processing is now.1 -
dopeysmelly wrote: »I love soya milk. The brand I drink costs the same as cow's milk. It's an acquired taste, it makes my porridge taste creamy without the fat of full fat milk, it has calcium and vitamin D, B2 and B12. I prefer it to almond and coconut milk (which is more expensive than Soya or cows milk)
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Cooking is processing. Fermenting is processing. Cutting is processing. Putting two ingredients together is processing .
"Processing " does not magically rob foods of their value, and it especially did not confer special new harmful properties on foods. It can be reasonably aid that the" processing "of foods is a major reason humans have succeeded so far as a species.
Yes, processing is a wonderful thing for soy (and many other foods) in terms of making nutrients available to us.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »What's soy milk taste like? I'm assuming it's yuck, I haven't had the nerve to try it.
Unsweetened = yuck if drinking it alone, but fine on cereal or in recipes
Sweetened or vanilla = okay IMO. It doesn't taste like cow's milk but I like it okay.
Chocolate = Yum
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Triathlete1502 wrote: »1. Anyone would like to share their knowledge regarding benefits versus side effects of soy milk?
I drank soy milk for decades with no side effects other than increased calcium intake, which I considered a benefit. I don't like milk and in the rural area where I live soy was the only alternative and I wanted to make sure I got enough calcium.
No clue, it's been safely used long enough that I put it on my GRAS list.Triathlete1502 wrote: »2. Any literature to back up your knowledge including dosage related studies?
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I love ALL dairy!3
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I also buy organic milk from grass fed cows. The farm is 20 minutes from my house.0
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Christine_72 wrote: »What's soy milk taste like? I'm assuming it's yuck, I haven't had the nerve to try it.
It varies from brand. It generally is sweeter than real milk.
People fear the hormones in soy milk but don't even take into account the mammalian oestrogen and progesterone found in milk. The hormones in soy products are phytoestrogen which are less concerning.
Mammalian hormones
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19496976
vs.
Plant hormones
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224
Soy also has no cholesterol and minimal saturated fat. I'm sticking with soy thanks.0 -
It might depend on your lineage.
Six of ten people who derive from European roots cannot properly digest soy. They gave it to my daughter when she was born, assuming that cow milk would be a problem. (no tests...just assumptions ...and before anyone goes there, i planned to breast feed but could not.) My daughter could not digest it, and produced stool that looked like bathroom chalking. When they got het on regular formula, she thrived.
I didn't think about it much til aeveral years later. We were invited to a kosher seder....no dairy. Everything used soy aubstitutes. Several hours later I was in bad pain. My gut was distended and it took a full day to recover. It happens everytime i go near soy foods...so I avoid them, but i did some research and found out about the intolerance angle based on heredity. Will try to scout out some references.0 -
No soy here. Gastro treating me for benign liver tumors advised to avoid it. It mimics estrogen in the body and the types of tumors I have are related to too much estrogen in the body. I can't take birth control pills or any type of hormone replacement therapy. I was advised it is so heavily processed that for most people any nutritional benefit is negated. Almond milk it is for me.1
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RaeBeeBaby wrote: »I avoid all food or drinks that contain soy, which is a bit tough because soy protein isolate, soybean oil and/or soy lecithin seems to be in just about all processed foods, including healthy nutrition bars, tuna fish, spaghetti sauce, and vitamin supplements. I read all labels very carefully!
Several of my health professionals (Western, Eastern and alternative medicine) have advised against it. Because it is an estrogen mimicker there are some who believe it can cause estrogen dominance, especially in women, with a subsequent greater risk of breast cancer.
Here's a list of some related studies:
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/studies-showing-adverse-effects-of-dietary-soy-1939-2008/
Although the above list doesn't contain links to the actual studies, they are named and dated so could be researched individually is someone chooses to research further.
Also, although I know the jury is still out on GMO's, my understanding is that the vast majority of soybeans grown, processed and sold in the US are genetically modified. Based on my limited knowledge, I think it's just wise for me to not eat or drink it.
I am with you on this. It seems that everything is so attached to soy, that shopping for good is an education in trying to avoid foods with soy.
Also the vast majority of soybeans in the US is GMO.0 -
Triathlete1502 wrote: »1. Anyone would like to share their knowledge regarding benefits versus side effects of soy milk?
2. Any literature to back up your knowledge including dosage related studies?
Many thanks.
1. Benefits vs effects... compared to dairy milk? Other non-dairy milks? I'm not sure I understand your question, OP.
I used to happily drink soy milk, nom on tofu, have protein powders based on soy, etc... as it turns out, my body isn't terribly fond of soy. TMI but I'm not crazy about gassiness galore. I suspect my increased intolerance may have stemmed from consuming so much. I would suggest prioritizing non-soy milks and protein sources - not out of fear of phytoestrogens (because to be honest I don't really know enough about that whole thing, or even if our bodies truly react to plant vs animal estrogens), but to avoid developing an intolerance.
I preferred the taste of soy milk in cereals, although plain soymilk in itself was not great - I dislike almost all nuts, so the nutty flavor of almond and cashew milk was unappealing to me, although by now I've gotten used to it. If you really need something to cover up the odd taste of soy or nut milks, I suggest getting vanilla unsweetened milks, or just unsweetened and have it in a shake or cereal. Coconut and rice milk are wonderful, but often a bit high in sugar.
Benefits in and of itself? A decent amount of protein with minimal fat and calories. A lot of non-dairy milks are fortified with vitamins that you typically won't get in dairy milk. The texture is a bit different. Coconut and rice milks are thinner and sweeter, while nut and soy milks are creamier and thicker. If you're not crazy about the texture of regular dairy milk but wanna still consume a milk of SOME kind, soy milk could be a good alternative
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As some have mentioned, at least 90% of corn and soybeans grown in the USA are GMO. For wheat, it is 60-80% GMO. Putting aside the science of how they make GMOs for a moment, my big concern is the glyphosate residue in the grains from being sprayed with RoundUp herbicide. Glyphosate residue entering your body causes hormone disruption, inflammation, and, from there, facilitates a variety of diseases. I wonder how many people would not be obese today if they had not had a steady diet of glyphosate residue in corn, soy, and wheat. It seems like any processed food has corn or soy products in it.0
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Soy is a phytoestrogen which studies have found can lead to a whole bunch of different problems in both men and women. My friend was given soy since she was a baby because they used to say it was better for you. Fast forward 28 years and she has PCOS, Endometreosis, and has had 4 miscarriages before finally having her daughter. With the amount of soy they put in everything it is almost impossible to have in moderation or avoid. Why add to it?0
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