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Fasting to correct autoimmune diseases??
Replies
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Sorry just a little annoyed (not at you) from people claiming they have a cure for incurable diseases. I see it every day. Eat this, don't eat that and you'll be cured. My diet is heavily restricted as there are tons of foods that are triggers for my Crohn's and I am still not cured or in complete remission. It doesn't mean I am not working hard enough or anything because I'm on meds. I also don't like being called an idiot because I know there is no cure. There isn't one yet.6
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I had tried this in the past as someone with hoshimoto and could never do it, an endo had recommended it. When I recently wanted to try again for non medical personal reasons I consulted my doctor who recommended against a full fast and worked with me to create a modified 24hr plan.0
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singingflutelady wrote: »Sorry just a little annoyed (not at you) from people claiming they have a cure for incurable diseases. I see it every day. Eat this, don't eat that and you'll be cured. My diet is heavily restricted as there are tons of foods that are triggers for my Crohn's and I am still not cured or in complete remission. It doesn't mean I am not working hard enough or anything because I'm on meds. I also don't like being called an idiot because I know there is no cure. There isn't one yet.
No worries. I wish there were better treatments for your illness. I dislike pseudoscience too.3 -
@ronjsteele I'm curious what was done to treat ITP. I also have ITP, and it has been under control (thankfully) for 25 years now because my spleen was removed, but I am very curious what you did to reverse it.
I will PM you. It is not a one size fits all. You are very blessed. I know of only two people who've had their spleen removed that it actually worked for. Often, the liver takes over and starts destroying platelets. I know in Europe they actually test to see if both are destroying the plaetelets before they do a splenectomy. The indium test is not available in the US as of yet (the last time I checked which was about six months ago - may have changed since then).0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Sorry just a little annoyed (not at you) from people claiming they have a cure for incurable diseases. I see it every day. Eat this, don't eat that and you'll be cured. My diet is heavily restricted as there are tons of foods that are triggers for my Crohn's and I am still not cured or in complete remission. It doesn't mean I am not working hard enough or anything because I'm on meds. I also don't like being called an idiot because I know there is no cure. There isn't one yet.
No one accused you of "not trying hard enough." Anytime anyone has to have diet restrictions IT IS HARD. We have BTDT for too many years. It doesn't matter if the restrictions are for your reasons (just to try and survive life) or mine (trying to heal the body). Either way, it is difficult. My beef is when people are discouraged from looking into anything different. If someone is happy with their course, then fine. But others should not be accused of peddling "woo" because people don't believe it does anything. There are plenty of people in this world that would prove otherwise. We can disagree on whether or not a disease is incurable. I do not believe that to be the case. You do. And quite frankly, that will be a question for the ages. But it does not make either opinion wrong in this case (because by what everyone is stating, nothing can be "proven").
The only people I think are "idiots" are those that blindly follow their doctors. If that's how you describe what you do, then I'm sorry. It's my opinion. People certainly don't have to agree with it. If people have done their research, questioned their doctors, looked at all sides, then at least they can say they have made an informed decision. I'm all about informed consent. If someone can say they've accomplished that then clearly they are not an idiot.6 -
I have definitely done my research. Sorry I was upset with you. It stems from being told repeatedly that if I became a Vegan, or drank alkalizing water, or cut dairy (already have mostly) or whatever that I would be cured. And when I say incurable I mean at the moment. I have hopes that some of the groundbreaking research going on will find a cure in my lifetime. There are some very promising possibilitiea for IBD at the moment. Let's hope they pass human trials!4
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I have shared parts of my story before. My condition was medically induced. It is a situation that certain medications can induce auto-immune malfunction and those situations are often temporary and people can recover (though not always, it depends). There is also the possibility a person was prone to auto-immune disease and the medications set it in motion. But before that didn't have a problem and wouldn't have if not for the med. Plus, as others said, sometimes in certain situations lifestyle factors can help reduce symptoms or improve co-existing conditions or help it go into remission. But, it depends on the situation. No one has control over their auto-immune disease or are to blame for it happening. I wouldn't do the fasting thing. My symptoms are completely reduced by a strict diet because I have a malabsorption disorder. But, the symptoms come back if I eat foods that cause my malabsorption disorder. I had health problems from the malabsorption (better now). I do have elevated auto-immune markers as well. And I experienced stress induced alopecia. My hair grew back, though (so it's different). There are so many auto-immune diseases. And so many that are not well known. It really changes a person's life. In ways that people don't know about. This is especially an issue for people that have malabsorption disorder. In terms of navigating life and having such a limited diet. In this world that is very judgemental because they don't know about or understand malabsorption disorders. Not all malabsorption is permanent. It depends on the cause. I am hoping I will recover.1
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This article isn't related to fasting but I thought those participating might be interested. Not recommending anyone go out and get parasites but it's sounds like the available treatment options are pretty dire and largely unsuccessful if people are doing this. It's the first I've heard of it but it's an interesting avenue of research that's for sure.
The Parasite Underground
A shadow network of patients are trying to treat their own debilitating diseases — by infecting themselves with gastrointestinal worms.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »This article isn't related to fasting but I thought those participating might be interested. Not recommending anyone go out and get parasites but it's sounds like the available treatment options are pretty dire and largely unsuccessful if people are doing this. It's the first I've heard of it but it's an interesting avenue of research that's for sure.
The Parasite Underground
A shadow network of patients are trying to treat their own debilitating diseases — by infecting themselves with gastrointestinal worms.
Yes I have heard of this before but I have Crohn's and there is some research on IBD and parasites.
Edited to add yup that article is about ibd2 -
Yup the hygiene theory1
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singingflutelady wrote: »I have definitely done my research. Sorry I was upset with you. It stems from being told repeatedly that if I became a Vegan, or drank alkalizing water, or cut dairy (already have mostly) or whatever that I would be cured.
I get this! Many have been there. I think anyone with any disease has had all kinds of stuff thrown at them because it's human nature. If I have learned anything, (and the reason I struggle), is it's best not to say anything unless someone approaches and asks. The hard part is when you see someone doing really poorly and you know there's at least a *chance* something you can share might help. Or when someone is being attacked for their choices and you are trying to let them know they are not alone. Choosing when to stay silent and not offend someone and when to speak up in hopes of helping them is a tightrope to walk for sure.
Wish you well. It is hard.....
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If i had a horrible medical condition like those posted here I would definitely have an open mind, and would not foofoo a plan that worked for someone else!
Sure you could take a million pills and medications given to you by your doctor, don't eat this, eat that, take this, not that, which sounds like a horrible way to live.
But what if there was another way that would make their condition more bearable or even in remission, shouldn't people be open to the idea??2 -
I understand what many of you are saying. I appreciate suggestions when respectful. I deleted the rest of my comment because it's not relevant to this conversation.0
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ronjsteele1 wrote: »I don't think anyone was giving medical advice. I think the discussion was whether or not there is merit to fasting for AI's. That's a worthy discussion.
The following statement qualifies as a medical claim in my book -- "don't bother with medications, just fast and you'll magically get better like we did":We've had two autoimmune diseases in my home and both have been completely healed. Neither with drugs.
And personal testimonies are not scientific evidence -- they have as much (or as little) validity as the claim that the Rev. Billy Bob prayed over me and (praise God!) I was healed.1 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »I don't think anyone was giving medical advice. I think the discussion was whether or not there is merit to fasting for AI's. That's a worthy discussion.
The following statement qualifies as a medical claim in my book -- "don't bother with medications, just fast and you'll magically get better like we did":We've had two autoimmune diseases in my home and both have been completely healed. Neither with drugs.
I read it as he tried an alternative/another way and it helped him.1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »If i had a horrible medical condition like those posted here I would definitely have an open mind, and would not foofoo a plan that worked for someone else!
Sure you could take a million pills and medications given to you by your doctor, don't eat this, eat that, take this, not that, which sounds like a horrible way to live.
But what if there was another way that would make their condition more bearable or even in remission, shouldn't people be open to the idea??
No, I won't keep an open mind for any and all suggestions. I've heard advice regarding one of my auto-immune diseases that I know would cause death. The other person had a different disease (not auto-immune) that is often confused with the disease I have. I knew right away from what he was saying, but he swore that he definitely had the same disease I have. Even after I went into tremendous scientific detail about why he was wrong, he just said "We'll have to agree to disagree." Ugh.1 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »If i had a horrible medical condition like those posted here I would definitely have an open mind, and would not foofoo a plan that worked for someone else!
Sure you could take a million pills and medications given to you by your doctor, don't eat this, eat that, take this, not that, which sounds like a horrible way to live.
But what if there was another way that would make their condition more bearable or even in remission, shouldn't people be open to the idea??
No, I won't keep an open mind for any and all suggestions. I've heard advice regarding one of my auto-immune diseases that I know would cause death. The other person had a different disease (not auto-immune) that is often confused with the disease I have. I knew right away from what he was saying, but he swore that he definitely had the same disease I have. Even after I went into tremendous scientific detail about why he was wrong, he just said "We'll have to agree to disagree." Ugh.
That's really difficult. Good thing you knew.0 -
IC can't be cured not matter what you say. So either you were misdiagnosed or you're lying.ronjsteele1 wrote: »Really? 14yrs of IC and I didn't know that's what I had? Everyone that saw me for 14yrs misdiagnosed me?
Nope. I have a huge respect for medicine and science. While you have respect for pseudoscience and magic.You think even less of the medical community then I do.
Very mature. I'll let the mods know how you feel about me.You're a *kitten*. Plain and simple.
You didn't cure anything. Stop spouting your nonsense. And about 50% of children go into spontaneous remision:And no, my child's ITP did not go away on it's own. He was refractory to all treatments and they had no hope or plan for him. They were happy to offer rituxin, splenectomy (which is rarely done anymore), nplate, or pramacta (now available for kids). We chose not to go there. If others do/have, then good on them. Our method worked and is still working and I don't discourage others from trying it. And BTW, I've been around the ITP community a long time and it's a complete and absolute lie that kids normally go into remission on their own.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15543006
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
You didn't cure IC or ITP as they cannot be cured. Stop lying.You can believe what you want. But we worked our *kitten* off this past 6yrs to heal bodies in our family. You can believe and do whatever you like.
Again, autoimmune disorders can kill if not treated appropriately. So yes someone with AI disease shuold be discouraged from following your nonsense.But you are dead wrong to discourage anyone else from trying what they want to.
Nope. None of these options will work as ITP and IC can't be cured. And believe me, I think when people read this thread they can see who the idiot is. Hint: it's not me.What are you afraid of? That one of those options might work for someone and you'll look like an idiot?
I would love to know where you come up with all your nonsense. Not just on this thread. But every post of yours here and other threads is factually incorrect.
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@ronjsteele I'm curious what was done to treat ITP. I also have ITP, and it has been under control (thankfully) for 25 years now because my spleen was removed, but I am very curious what you did to reverse it.
nvmomketo - I tried to PM you twice and MFP keeps dying every time I try to send it. Not sure if it's a glitch right now or what. You can try sending me a PM as a test and I can try to respond. I'm not having issues responding to people writing to me so I'm not sure what's up.
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IC can't be cured not matter what you say. So either you were misdiagnosed or you're lying.ronjsteele1 wrote: »Really? 14yrs of IC and I didn't know that's what I had? Everyone that saw me for 14yrs misdiagnosed me?
Nope. I have a huge respect for medicine and science. While you have respect for pseudoscience and magic.You think even less of the medical community then I do.
Very mature. I'll let the mods know how you feel about me.You're a *kitten*. Plain and simple.
You didn't cure anything. Stop spouting your nonsense. And about 50% of children go into spontaneous remision:And no, my child's ITP did not go away on it's own. He was refractory to all treatments and they had no hope or plan for him. They were happy to offer rituxin, splenectomy (which is rarely done anymore), nplate, or pramacta (now available for kids). We chose not to go there. If others do/have, then good on them. Our method worked and is still working and I don't discourage others from trying it. And BTW, I've been around the ITP community a long time and it's a complete and absolute lie that kids normally go into remission on their own.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15543006
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
You didn't cure IC or ITP as they cannot be cured. Stop lying.You can believe what you want. But we worked our *kitten* off this past 6yrs to heal bodies in our family. You can believe and do whatever you like.
Again, autoimmune disorders can kill if not treated appropriately. So yes someone with AI disease shuold be discouraged from following your nonsense.But you are dead wrong to discourage anyone else from trying what they want to.
Nope. None of these options will work as ITP and IC can't be cured. And believe me, I think when people read this thread they can see who the idiot is. Hint: it's not me.What are you afraid of? That one of those options might work for someone and you'll look like an idiot?
I would love to know where you come up with all your nonsense. Not just on this thread. But every post of yours here and other threads is factually incorrect.
Dude - you are hopeless. I'm not going to argue with you. Nothing I say, or link to, or do is going to change your mind. It would be an exercise in futility. My time and energy are way to valuable to spend on the likes of you. Short of you seeing tests of my bladder you aren't going to believe anything. BTW, you might want to tell all the people on IC forums that have healed their bodies that they didn't really have it either....... sheesh.3 -
MyReflections wrote: »Many here will tell you that that there isn't a connection between food and autoimmune diseases and they are wrong. If you are able to speak and understand other languages beside English, go to countries in Europe and read up on it. There is proof, there is lots of proof!
I'm in Europe, I speak English, French and Spanish fluently. My German is good. What "proof" can you point out?
The idea of grouping AI diseases together in this thread just doesn't make sense to me - mechanisms and manifestations are so different and complex that these types of generalisations just lead to frustrating conversations.2 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »
@ronjsteele I'm curious what was done to treat ITP. I also have ITP, and it has been under control (thankfully) for 25 years now because my spleen was removed, but I am very curious what you did to reverse it.
I will PM you. It is not a one size fits all. You are very blessed. I know of only two people who've had their spleen removed that it actually worked for. Often, the liver takes over and starts destroying platelets. I know in Europe they actually test to see if both are destroying the plaetelets before they do a splenectomy. The indium test is not available in the US as of yet (the last time I checked which was about six months ago - may have changed since then).
The use of splenectomies has decreased significantly in Europe and the US in general due to the advent of other treatments. White blood cell scans are regularly performed in the US.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
The use of splenectomies has decreased significantly in Europe and the US in general due to the advent of other treatments. White blood cell scans are regularly performed in the US.
Are you calling the Indium a white blood cell scan? That term is not used here so I want to make sure it's the same thing. I know the indium tags platelets and they trace their destruction. They may currently do that here with white cells (I have no idea, have not looked into that) but they are not with platelets. I'm still a part of the platelet forum and the indium scan for platelets is not regularly run in the US. It's something many ask about who are considering splenectomy (there are still those). At last check there was one hospital on the east coast beginning to experiment with it.
Yes, splenectomies are becoming a thing of the past. Especially with the advent of promacta and Nplate. It was still quite prevalent when pushed to us 6yrs ago.0 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »
IC can't be cured not matter what you say. So either you were misdiagnosed or you're lying.ronjsteele1 wrote: »Really? 14yrs of IC and I didn't know that's what I had? Everyone that saw me for 14yrs misdiagnosed me?
Nope. I have a huge respect for medicine and science. While you have respect for pseudoscience and magic.You think even less of the medical community then I do.
Very mature. I'll let the mods know how you feel about me.You're a *kitten*. Plain and simple.
You didn't cure anything. Stop spouting your nonsense. And about 50% of children go into spontaneous remision:And no, my child's ITP did not go away on it's own. He was refractory to all treatments and they had no hope or plan for him. They were happy to offer rituxin, splenectomy (which is rarely done anymore), nplate, or pramacta (now available for kids). We chose not to go there. If others do/have, then good on them. Our method worked and is still working and I don't discourage others from trying it. And BTW, I've been around the ITP community a long time and it's a complete and absolute lie that kids normally go into remission on their own.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15543006
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
You didn't cure IC or ITP as they cannot be cured. Stop lying.You can believe what you want. But we worked our *kitten* off this past 6yrs to heal bodies in our family. You can believe and do whatever you like.
Again, autoimmune disorders can kill if not treated appropriately. So yes someone with AI disease shuold be discouraged from following your nonsense.But you are dead wrong to discourage anyone else from trying what they want to.
Nope. None of these options will work as ITP and IC can't be cured. And believe me, I think when people read this thread they can see who the idiot is. Hint: it's not me.What are you afraid of? That one of those options might work for someone and you'll look like an idiot?
I would love to know where you come up with all your nonsense. Not just on this thread. But every post of yours here and other threads is factually incorrect.
Dude - you are hopeless. I'm not going to argue with you. Nothing I say, or link to, or do is going to change your mind. It would be an exercise in futility. My time and energy are way to valuable to spend on the likes of you. Short of you seeing tests of my bladder you aren't going to believe anything. BTW, you might want to tell all the people on IC forums that have healed their bodies that they didn't really have it either....... sheesh.
Yay for healing! IC has a largely unknown etiology, and is not definitively considered to be an autoimmune disease. Symptoms most definitely can go away, especially if you avoid foods and medications that cause flares. They can come back, but there is such a thing as acute cystitis too, which goes away.3 -
I wish the writer had included citations to the research she is talking about.
Without that, it seems like she should have included warnings about "don't do this at home",
"talk with your doctor", etc. in order to be responsible. Because you KNOW there are people
who will just stop eating for days, not considering how it might harm them.
Could try to find studies on Pub Med. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
These seem to address what the article author is talking about.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26094889
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24905167
This one talks about improving chemotherapy outcomes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27282289
This one says that fasting helps with MS & autoimmunity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27239035
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This is priceless coming from you. No, I'm quite hopeful. Hopeful that most people will realize that whatever you post is goin to be filled with nonsense and they'll just pass it by.ronjsteele1 wrote: »Dude - you are hopeless.
Is it because you realize like the thread on aspartame that I will show you how wrong you are.I'm not going to argue with you.
Nope. Link to real science and I will change my mind. Something you seem incapable of doing. Instead you just have lame excuses.Nothing I say, or link to, or do is going to change your mind.
Somple solution, just stop posting nonsense and you won't have to spend your valuable time on the likes of me.My time and energy are way to valuable to spend on the likes of you.
Again, they are most likely in remission or controlling their symptoms through diet or even misdiagnosed but not cured. Because IC can't be cured.BTW, you might want to tell all the people on IC forums that have healed their bodies that they didn't really have it either....... sheesh.
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I have lupus. I'm doing intermittent fasting for the last two weeks. I don't know if it's helping my lupus but I feel fantastic and I'm losing weight and have enough energy to exercise a lot! What type of fasting are they talking about? I only fast 16 hours out of 241
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »MyReflections wrote: »Many here will tell you that that there isn't a connection between food and autoimmune diseases and they are wrong. If you are able to speak and understand other languages beside English, go to countries in Europe and read up on it. There is proof, there is lots of proof!
I'm in Europe, I speak English, French and Spanish fluently. My German is good. What "proof" can you point out?
The idea of grouping AI diseases together in this thread just doesn't make sense to me - mechanisms and manifestations are so different and complex that these types of generalisations just lead to frustrating conversations.
Thank you for pointing that out. It's a bit like saying 'all infectious diseases behave the same way'.0 -
I see a lot of people in the alternative health crowd say AI illnessss are essentially the same problem (the immune system attacking the body) but with different manifestations. The treatment of course being a certain diet.0
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All I can say is, I wish it were true!!1
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