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"Tell Me I'm Fat"
JaneSnowe
Posts: 1,283 Member
Does anyone here ever listen to This American Life? This week's episode asked the question, Should we think about weight differently than we do? I'd love to hear what others think after hearing the podcast. Does something need to change about how society views fat people? TAL wants you to answer Yes. Here are links to the podcast and the transcript, plus the intros to each segment. Give it a listen and let's talk about it!
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/589/tell-me-im-fat
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/589/transcript
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/589/tell-me-im-fat
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/589/transcript
When you're over a certain size-- it's been explained to me by a few people now-- complete strangers walk up to you on the street and tell you to lose weight. They shoot you dirty looks when they see ice cream in your shopping cart. They talk down to you like you're stupid about nutrition and calories, as if pretty much every fat person has not been around the block 500 times on that one already.
That's why deciding to stay fat and be OK with it is at a peculiar frontier right now, where things are shifting and people do not agree about what is acceptable to say and think. I was talking to Lindy. I used the word "overweight" a few times.
And at some point, she stopped me and said, the word "overweight" is not preferred. She wasn't strident about this. It was super friendly. She said the problem with "overweight" is that it implies that there is a correct weight for people.
That's how radical this is. It's saying that no weight is better than any other weight, which, given the health risks associated with greater weight that Lindy acknowledges, it can be hard to get your head around. And we're doing this show today because I read the book that Lindy just published about this. And it made me see this whole thing differently.
Act One, The Day the Scales Fell from Her Eyes.
So Lindy West is very much a fat person with a before picture and an after picture. In both pictures, she's fat. In the after picture, she is outspoken and happy. In the before picture, she is painfully shy and not as happy.
She says, as a fat teenager, she felt like a monster. Cool clothes did not seem to exist for her. In her 20s, fat made her world smaller. She'd stay home when friends went hiking, biking, sailing. She'd cancel plans to avoid restaurants whose tables were so close together she couldn't navigate through them.
Act Two, It's a Small World After All.
So when we were all talking about what wanted to put on this week's show, we come to the subject of fat suits. And one of our staffers, Elna Baker, blurted out, if she put one of those on today, she'd feel like herself again.
Elna is one of those rare people who has lost a lot of weight. She lost 110 pounds, and she's kept it off for years and years. Says she grew up being told the same thing that lots of fat girls are told-- that she'd never have a husband or a family if she stayed fat.
She'd never got the job she wanted if she stayed fat. The job she wanted in her case was she wanted to be an actress. Her grandfather would tell her flat out, nobody wants to see a fat girl on TV.
But she didn't believe it. She thought it was an exaggeration. She's a hard worker, good attitude. She just figured she'd just make it work. Then it didn't work.
Act Three, How You Doing with Sizes?
So obesity in America affects a higher percentage of black people than white people. Roxane Gay has written a lot about race and some about obesity in her book Bad Feminist and elsewhere. Roxane's black. She's fat. And she says those two things together have a huge impact on the way people perceive her.
Act Four, Cross Trainers.
It's so common to judge people on their weight. And of course, so often there is this moral dimension to it that is just gross-- this idea that you're fat because you're weak, you can't get control of your own life.
Today on our program, we're saying maybe that is not the most accurate or the most helpful way to look at this. This next story is about a very specialized example of this kind of moralism. You may know that there's a Christian weight loss movement. And it's big, with seminars and books like Help Lord, the Devil Wants Me Fat. Daniel Engber takes us into to a particularly extreme moment for this movement.
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I have just started listening to this episode (I keep the episodes as a special treat for when I'm at gym) - will report back on Monday after my session - seems like a good one to listen to whilst doing my weights
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Thank you, I was going to post this today.
It's an interesting podcast and Lindy West echoes some of the things I believe - a lot of the "health concern" people express is just fat shaming. I might read her book.
Certainly there is a lot of her discourse I don't agree with but I have huge respect for the thoughtful argument she brings and the attitude of self-awareness and self-love. Great segment in that podcast.4 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Thank you, I was going to post this today.
It's an interesting podcast and Lindy West echoes some of the things I believe - a lot of the "health concern" people express is just fat shaming. I might read her book.
Certainly there is a lot of her discourse I don't agree with but I have huge respect for the thoughtful argument she brings and the attitude of self-awareness and self-love. Great segment in that podcast.
I agree with you about the "health concerns". Lindy's interview really made me think.
I was a little bothered by Dan Savage's remarks about the people at the water park. So judgemental towards families out having fun together in a way that promotes activity.
What did you think of the interview with Roxane Gay? She says that the medical term for her size is "super morbidly obese", Ira Glass says that's so mean, and Roxane agrees, saying it's dehumanizing. I would have like to hear what term should be used instead.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Thank you, I was going to post this today.
It's an interesting podcast and Lindy West echoes some of the things I believe - a lot of the "health concern" people express is just fat shaming. I might read her book.
Certainly there is a lot of her discourse I don't agree with but I have huge respect for the thoughtful argument she brings and the attitude of self-awareness and self-love. Great segment in that podcast.
I agree with you about the "health concerns". Lindy's interview really made me think.
I was a little bothered by Dan Savage's remarks about the people at the water park. So judgemental towards families out having fun together in a way that promotes activity.
What did you think of the interview with Roxane Gay? She says that the medical term for her size is "super morbidly obese", Ira Glass says that's so mean, and Roxane agrees, saying it's dehumanizing. I would have like to hear what term should be used instead.
The correct term would be "class III obesity" or "class IV obesity" and the "super morbidly" has no actual additional differentiating clinical value. Super MO is not a WHO classification term and certainly not universally accepted - it may come from US Public Health use.
It is interesting that Roxanne struggles with the FA movement and appears in the podcast to not fully embrace it, but sees it as a necessary return to balance. "I don't want to pretend that I'm OK" stuck in my mind. But other than that, it was a weak segment - too short and didn't go anywhere except plug her upcoming book.
As to Dan Savage - he is all about being shocking and I'm perfectly fine with his viewpoint as such which was intended to electrify, create response and not support (click bait is click bait) - it's also evolved and softened along the way. He isn't a kind person, in general, if one references his blogs or shows. Too bad he didn't participate, then again it might have been to much about him then.1 -
I think Lindy's view that there is no correct weight for people is the problem a lot of people seem to have with the FA movement because it's not completely accurate. I do think that there's a point where the health risks cross a line, but where that line is is going to depend on the person.
This isn't to say that I think that anyone ought to be ashamed of themselves because that's absurd. It's also no one else's business how much you weigh and no one should feel entitled to make a judgement about you solely based on weight.12 -
Everybody wants to be accepted as they are. Nobody wants to feel or be ostrazided. That goes for every group of people be it a matter of national, racial, sexual idendity: political, moral, ethical, religious beliefs; their economics, lifestyle choices, appearance; physical attributes, mental capabilities. Same goes for fat folks. They want to be accepted just as they are. If they want to get thinner, then it's their choice and willfull action that gets them there and not public opinion. That's my feelings on it. Take that or leave it ... I don't care. But I do care that you accept my belief because I'm one of the people I've just talked about. The one that wants to be accepted exactly as I am.4
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Everybody wants to be accepted as they are. Nobody wants to feel or be ostrazided. That goes for every group of people be it a matter of national, racial, sexual idendity: political, moral, ethical, religious beliefs; their economics, lifestyle choices, appearance; physical attributes, mental capabilities. Same goes for fat folks. They want to be accepted just as they are. If they want to get thinner, then it's their choice and willfull action that gets them there and not public opinion. That's my feelings on it. Take that or leave it ... I don't care. But I do care that you accept my belief because I'm one of the people I've just talked about. The one that wants to be accepted exactly as I am.
And that's perfectly fine, but there has to be a line. I usually draw that line where money becomes involved. Personally, I'd be a lot more okay with all of it, if the chronically obese were not allowed access to public funding for healthcare. I feel the same for smokers. I felt the same when I was both obese, and a smoker.
But, since the feds won't let the public cut off funding to people who damage themselves, mockery is about all they have left.8 -
OMG this whole podcast resonated so well with what I am going through especially with Elna and Roxanne. Before I turned 21, I never thought of weight like I do now and I especially never thought to hate myself or my body because I was morbidly obese. Yes, I knew I needed to lose some weight, but I never thought about it in such a negatively draining obsessive way until I realized that people do care about looks and they do treat you differently based on how you look. It really didn't hit me how much a lot of men care about a woman's weight until my experience with being rejected because of my weight happened. After that I hit a deep depression because I knew if I didn't lose the weight, it would always be this way for me but knowing the truth---that people treat me differently because I am smaller---is what is the most depressing thing about losing all the weight. Sometimes I think I sabotage my weight loss efforts because I know that I am going to be treated differently and I am not ready for that.
Also on should society's views on fat people change?--- I have a love/hate thing for the FAT acceptance movement. On the one hand, its so good to be positive about yourself and your body as it is and I am working on loving myself again, but at the same time if you are obviously overweight even if its not affecting your health presently, it can and most likely will in the long run. For me, its already starting to affect me and I'm only 24 and not even morbidly obese anymore, just in class I. So I am on the fence about that subject and think its a case by case thing. Not every overweight person needs to lose weight especially if they are more muscle than fat, tall or athletic. One thing I would like to see happen is that the FA movement move towards promoting better eating: less processed foods and more produce. I would really get on the wagon then. If I had had that growing up, I wouldn't be obese now.
Kudos to those that accept themselves the way that they are, but I just hope at the same time they aim for better health. And I think that's the controversy with the body positivity movement or FA movement because if more big people in this movement ate healthy and exercised at least 4x-5x a week, would they still be big?
Some yes, but the majority no. When I went vegan and exercised almost 5x day, I dropped 10lbs in 2 weeks. So I know if the majority ate truly clean (hardly no processed foods and little to no meat) and was more active, there would be hardly no one obese except for those with medical issues causing their obesity.
When I can afford it I will be going back vegan again.5 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Everybody wants to be accepted as they are. Nobody wants to feel or be ostrazided. That goes for every group of people be it a matter of national, racial, sexual idendity: political, moral, ethical, religious beliefs; their economics, lifestyle choices, appearance; physical attributes, mental capabilities. Same goes for fat folks. They want to be accepted just as they are. If they want to get thinner, then it's their choice and willfull action that gets them there and not public opinion. That's my feelings on it. Take that or leave it ... I don't care. But I do care that you accept my belief because I'm one of the people I've just talked about. The one that wants to be accepted exactly as I am.
And that's perfectly fine, but there has to be a line. I usually draw that line where money becomes involved. Personally, I'd be a lot more okay with all of it, if the chronically obese were not allowed access to public funding for healthcare. I feel the same for smokers. I felt the same when I was both obese, and a smoker.
But, since the feds won't let the public cut off funding to people who damage themselves, mockery is about all they have left.
Oh, I get you on the money thing. but if we are going to turn off public healthcare funding for smokers and fat people, then what about those with other dissorders that can be shown to be caused by damage done to the self? In that category, I would definitely put drug addicts, alcohol abusers, people with sexually transmited diseases .... Holy Gabonie ... i think I am sounding a bit like 'The Donald' ... yipes!3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Everybody wants to be accepted as they are. Nobody wants to feel or be ostrazided. That goes for every group of people be it a matter of national, racial, sexual idendity: political, moral, ethical, religious beliefs; their economics, lifestyle choices, appearance; physical attributes, mental capabilities. Same goes for fat folks. They want to be accepted just as they are. If they want to get thinner, then it's their choice and willfull action that gets them there and not public opinion. That's my feelings on it. Take that or leave it ... I don't care. But I do care that you accept my belief because I'm one of the people I've just talked about. The one that wants to be accepted exactly as I am.
And that's perfectly fine, but there has to be a line. I usually draw that line where money becomes involved. Personally, I'd be a lot more okay with all of it, if the chronically obese were not allowed access to public funding for healthcare. I feel the same for smokers. I felt the same when I was both obese, and a smoker.
But, since the feds won't let the public cut off funding to people who damage themselves, mockery is about all they have left.
Oh, I get you on the money thing. but if we are going to turn off public healthcare funding for smokers and fat people, then what about those with other dissorders that can be shown to be caused by damage done to the self? In that category, I would definitely put drug addicts, alcohol abusers, people with sexually transmited diseases .... Holy Gabonie ... i think I am sounding a bit like 'The Donald' ... yipes!
I am actually perfectly fine with everything you just said. In fact, I'd rather all of it be gone altogether. And no, I'm not a Trump supporter. xD3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Last I checked, reality cares not about their feels. I'm sure her heart will check and see if it would make her feel bad when it finally gives up on trying to motorboat her "super morbidly obese" *kitten* around. Being called that is dehumanizing? Somehow more dehumanizing than being confined to rolling around on a Rascal because one's legs said "screw this" a while ago?
I've always been a "if you're happy with it, roll with it" kind of person. I fully support the right of people who want to sport gargantuan waists and accept themselves, to do so. However, I also support the right of others to mock them for letting it get to that point.
I don't care how they try to rationalize it. It eventually comes to the point where even the farthest reaching of medical problems are just an excuse to cover for sheer mental laziness, and a lack of will. "Muh thyroid!" There are people who literally have no thyroid, after having it removed, and they don't end up looking like that if they take their meds (I know two of them personally).
Okay, I'm done ranting now. This fat acceptance crap just irritates me to no end...and that's coming from a former fatty.
Holy judgment, batman. I am so sad that you think this way- what a horrible way to look at other people, and to be okay with treating and thinking of other people as less than human, especially when you claim to have been there yourself. It's a strange phenomenon I keep seeing on the boards- some people who lose a lot of weight suddenly become the harshest judges. It's a weird power twist- like when kids who are bullied grow up to be the bullies. It's almost like in order to lose the weight you had to demonize the fat and make fat people the enemy. Sorry, but that's not okay.
Maybe you need to look in the mirror and think long and hard about what got you to your highest weight and where you are now, without the superiority complex. Be human. For most people, the problem isn't the physical barriers of weight loss, but the mental ones. Loving yourself is the first step to weight loss in my opinion- not the other way around, and spreading hatred and judgement to people you know nothing about is not going to help anyone.
ETA: I also have conflicted feelings about the fat acceptance movement. Fat is not healthy, and should not be accepted as such. Fat people ARE treated differently, however, and people think it's okay to "mock" them and treat them as less than human, and I cannot get behind that. It's depressing and it has sabotaged my weight loss in the past instead of encouraging me.
I've never made excuses for my weight, but I also know that I have always been clinically depressed with suicidal ideation and if you've never experienced that, you'll never understand the horrible dark hole that you are perpetually living in. Feeling that there's mass amounts of people who prefer you don't exist only sent me deeper into that hole. I remember after my sister died suddenly and tragically, I was at my heaviest weight. I spent my birthday alone after that and I was so, so sad. I thought instead of a cake, I'd go to the store and buy one of those character cupcakes- you know the cute ones made to look like characters or flowers? I got one that looked like Oscar the Grouch because it made me smile a little. As I went through the self checkout- sure enough, someone commented that the fat girl just came in to buy a sugary cupcake to stuff her face with, just loud enough so I'd "accidentally" overhear. I went home and sobbed uncontrollably, on my birthday, alone. I was very close to taking my own life that day.
It's been a long, hard and emotional road, but I'm finally getting somewhere. As a result, I became actually ready to do something about my weight, and to care enough about my own life to take those steps.
So please, be kind. Your personal experience is not everyone else's.22 -
Society needs to change the way they view a lot of things, not just fat people2
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OMG this whole podcast resonated so well with what I am going through especially with Elna and Roxanne. Before I turned 21, I never thought of weight like I do now and I especially never thought to hate myself or my body because I was morbidly obese. Yes, I knew I needed to lose some weight, but I never thought about it in such a negatively draining obsessive way until I realized that people do care about looks and they do treat you differently based on how you look. It really didn't hit me how much a lot of men care about a woman's weight until my experience with being rejected because of my weight happened. After that I hit a deep depression because I knew if I didn't lose the weight, it would always be this way for me but knowing the truth---that people treat me differently because I am smaller---is what is the most depressing thing about losing all the weight. Sometimes I think I sabotage my weight loss efforts because I know that I am going to be treated differently and I am not ready for that.
Also on should society's views on fat people change?--- I have a love/hate thing for the FAT acceptance movement. On the one hand, its so good to be positive about yourself and your body as it is and I am working on loving myself again, but at the same time if you are obviously overweight even if its not affecting your health presently, it can and most likely will in the long run. For me, its already starting to affect me and I'm only 24 and not even morbidly obese anymore, just in class I. So I am on the fence about that subject and think its a case by case thing. Not every overweight person needs to lose weight especially if they are more muscle than fat, tall or athletic. One thing I would like to see happen is that the FA movement move towards promoting better eating: less processed foods and more produce. I would really get on the wagon then. If I had had that growing up, I wouldn't be obese now.
Kudos to those that accept themselves the way that they are, but I just hope at the same time they aim for better health. And I think that's the controversy with the body positivity movement or FA movement because if more big people in this movement ate healthy and exercised at least 4x-5x a week, would they still be big?
Some yes, but the majority no. When I went vegan and exercised almost 5x day, I dropped 10lbs in 2 weeks. So I know if the majority ate truly clean (hardly no processed foods and little to no meat) and was more active, there would be hardly no one obese except for those with medical issues causing their obesity.
When I can afford it I will be going back vegan again.
I read one or two books a few years ago. That's actually part of the whole HAES process. Eating a healthy nutritious diet, basically doing anything to improve yourself without weight loss being the end goal. And from reading MFP, we all know that "clean eating" (or substitute whichever phrase you prefer) in and of itself won't lead to weight loss. People who like vegetables and lean meats can still struggle to lose weight because the sum total of their diet is such that they're consuming more calories than their goals might suggest. If you mean clean eating at reasonable calorie levels and nothing else, well. That can be very difficult to stick to and tends to suck out a lot of enjoyment from life and eating for a lot of people, and compliance to this form of dietary white knuckling can be quite low considering the long term.2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Everybody wants to be accepted as they are. Nobody wants to feel or be ostrazided. That goes for every group of people be it a matter of national, racial, sexual idendity: political, moral, ethical, religious beliefs; their economics, lifestyle choices, appearance; physical attributes, mental capabilities. Same goes for fat folks. They want to be accepted just as they are. If they want to get thinner, then it's their choice and willfull action that gets them there and not public opinion. That's my feelings on it. Take that or leave it ... I don't care. But I do care that you accept my belief because I'm one of the people I've just talked about. The one that wants to be accepted exactly as I am.
And that's perfectly fine, but there has to be a line. I usually draw that line where money becomes involved. Personally, I'd be a lot more okay with all of it, if the chronically obese were not allowed access to public funding for healthcare. I feel the same for smokers. I felt the same when I was both obese, and a smoker.
But, since the feds won't let the public cut off funding to people who damage themselves, mockery is about all they have left.
Oh, I get you on the money thing. but if we are going to turn off public healthcare funding for smokers and fat people, then what about those with other dissorders that can be shown to be caused by damage done to the self? In that category, I would definitely put drug addicts, alcohol abusers, people with sexually transmited diseases .... Holy Gabonie ... i think I am sounding a bit like 'The Donald' ... yipes!
We shouldn't cut off medical care to those in need even if it's a condition brought on by the individual. We shouldn't shame anyone but we shouldn't encouraging fat acceptance, same as we as a society shouldnt be encouraging meth or crack cocaine acceptance.
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I listened to this while working out, so I was a bit distracted and may have the wrong idea here. This is what I keep coming back to ...
"Yeah, but I was determined to not be fat forever. And my worst fear was, what if I am? And then at some point, I just was like, you know, it's fairly likely that I'm going to be fat forever. So why am I putting off figuring out how to live with that? I should, rather than spending all my time counting almonds, why not try to figure out how to be happy now?"
I think it's so important to be happy with yourself, so of course I think figuring out how to accept your body is important. What I keep struggling with is the sense of resignation I get from this, like she's given up on losing weight, something she used to be determined to do. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to express this, but I get the sense that she's removed herself from the equation, like it's not in her hands to lose weight. I'm not sure why I take that from what she said here, but that's where my mind keeps going. I guess I think it's important to figure out how to love your body even if you're trying to change it. The two are not mutually exclusive.
(Please be kind if you respond to this
I'm just thinking out loud - or something like out loud - here.) 7 -
distinctlybeautiful wrote: »I listened to this while working out, so I was a bit distracted and may have the wrong idea here. This is what I keep coming back to ...
"Yeah, but I was determined to not be fat forever. And my worst fear was, what if I am? And then at some point, I just was like, you know, it's fairly likely that I'm going to be fat forever. So why am I putting off figuring out how to live with that? I should, rather than spending all my time counting almonds, why not try to figure out how to be happy now?"
I think it's so important to be happy with yourself, so of course I think figuring out how to accept your body is important. What I keep struggling with is the sense of resignation I get from this, like she's given up on losing weight, something she used to be determined to do. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to express this, but I get the sense that she's removed herself from the equation, like it's not in her hands to lose weight. I'm not sure why I take that from what she said here, but that's where my mind keeps going. I guess I think it's important to figure out how to love your body even if you're trying to change it. The two are not mutually exclusive.
(Please be kind if you respond to this I'm just thinking out loud - or something like out loud - here.)
That resignation can be a tough pill to swallow, but it basically stems from another reaction to some "data" that a lot of us know all too well - the percentage of people who lose significant amounts of weight and actually keep it off. I've seen depressing numbers ranging anywhere from 3% to 20%. Some people say the studies that report these numbers are bogus, in which case I'd like to read a better one, and hope like hell that those stats are changing for the better as time goes on.
Anyway, if you were considering an investment that took a lot of your resources and only 5% of people made an appreciable amount of money, mightn't you consider other options? Any other options?2 -
Fit people get sick too. You wake up feeling fine and go to bed with cancer. It happens to someone(s) every day. Your heart can stop just as you are mocking another about their size.
And I don't support the Fat Awareness movement just as I don't support people being unkind to one another. Especially when they do it to feel superior. Lazy way to make yourself feel good.8 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Last I checked, reality cares not about their feels. I'm sure her heart will check and see if it would make her feel bad when it finally gives up on trying to motorboat her "super morbidly obese" *kitten* around. Being called that is dehumanizing? Somehow more dehumanizing than being confined to rolling around on a Rascal because one's legs said "screw this" a while ago?
I've always been a "if you're happy with it, roll with it" kind of person. I fully support the right of people who want to sport gargantuan waists and accept themselves, to do so. However, I also support the right of others to mock them for letting it get to that point.
I don't care how they try to rationalize it. It eventually comes to the point where even the farthest reaching of medical problems are just an excuse to cover for sheer mental laziness, and a lack of will. "Muh thyroid!" There are people who literally have no thyroid, after having it removed, and they don't end up looking like that if they take their meds (I know two of them personally).
Okay, I'm done ranting now. This fat acceptance crap just irritates me to no end...and that's coming from a former fatty.
Holy judgment, batman. I am so sad that you think this way- what a horrible way to look at other people, and to be okay with treating and thinking of other people as less than human, especially when you claim to have been there yourself. It's a strange phenomenon I keep seeing on the boards- some people who lose a lot of weight suddenly become the harshest judges. It's a weird power twist- like when kids who are bullied grow up to be the bullies. It's almost like in order to lose the weight you had to demonize the fat and make fat people the enemy. Sorry, but that's not okay.
Maybe you need to look in the mirror and think long and hard about what got you to your highest weight and where you are now, without the superiority complex. Be human. For most people, the problem isn't the physical barriers of weight loss, but the mental ones. Loving yourself is the first step to weight loss in my opinion- not the other way around, and spreading hatred and judgement to people you know nothing about is not going to help anyone.
ETA: I also have conflicted feelings about the fat acceptance movement. Fat is not healthy, and should not be accepted as such. Fat people ARE treated differently, however, and people think it's okay to "mock" them and treat them as less than human, and I cannot get behind that. It's depressing and it has sabotaged my weight loss in the past instead of encouraging me.
I've never made excuses for my weight, but I also know that I have always been clinically depressed with suicidal ideation and if you've never experienced that, you'll never understand the horrible dark hole that you are perpetually living in. Feeling that there's mass amounts of people who prefer you don't exist only sent me deeper into that hole. I remember after my sister died suddenly and tragically, I was at my heaviest weight. I spent my birthday alone after that and I was so, so sad. I thought instead of a cake, I'd go to the store and buy one of those character cupcakes- you know the cute ones made to look like characters or flowers? I got one that looked like Oscar the Grouch because it made me smile a little. As I went through the self checkout- sure enough, someone commented that the fat girl just came in to buy a sugary cupcake to stuff her face with, just loud enough so I'd "accidentally" overhear. I went home and sobbed uncontrollably, on my birthday, alone. I was very close to taking my own life that day.
It's been a long, hard and emotional road, but I'm finally getting somewhere. As a result, I became actually ready to do something about my weight, and to care enough about my own life to take those steps.
So please, be kind. Your personal experience is not everyone else's.
I think that you may have misunderstood my point in a couple of places. First, I do not personally partake in said mockery. I do however, have a very abrasive approach to people who whine about being fat, then go home and cry into a tub of Ben and Jerry's over it. I know several of these people in a close manner. As I said, if someone is happy with it, fine. Eat away and enjoy it.
However, most of these people don't appear to be happy with it, and trying to coddle their feels, when they are their own worst enemy, isn't exactly going to help. What one person hears as "acceptance", another may interpret as resignation to failure.
The "everyone is different" blade cuts both ways. For the longest time, I loathed myself, but figured there was nothing I could do about it because "blah blah genetics, blah blah your metabolism". No I, like most, had a severe case of Fork-to-Mouth Disease. It took a whole lot of negative feedback, before I was willing to accept that, and fix it.11 -
OMG this whole podcast resonated so well with what I am going through especially with Elna and Roxanne. Before I turned 21, I never thought of weight like I do now and I especially never thought to hate myself or my body because I was morbidly obese. Yes, I knew I needed to lose some weight, but I never thought about it in such a negatively draining obsessive way until I realized that people do care about looks and they do treat you differently based on how you look. It really didn't hit me how much a lot of men care about a woman's weight until my experience with being rejected because of my weight happened. After that I hit a deep depression because I knew if I didn't lose the weight, it would always be this way for me but knowing the truth---that people treat me differently because I am smaller---is what is the most depressing thing about losing all the weight. Sometimes I think I sabotage my weight loss efforts because I know that I am going to be treated differently and I am not ready for that.
Also on should society's views on fat people change?--- I have a love/hate thing for the FAT acceptance movement. On the one hand, its so good to be positive about yourself and your body as it is and I am working on loving myself again, but at the same time if you are obviously overweight even if its not affecting your health presently, it can and most likely will in the long run. For me, its already starting to affect me and I'm only 24 and not even morbidly obese anymore, just in class I. So I am on the fence about that subject and think its a case by case thing. Not every overweight person needs to lose weight especially if they are more muscle than fat, tall or athletic. One thing I would like to see happen is that the FA movement move towards promoting better eating: less processed foods and more produce. I would really get on the wagon then. If I had had that growing up, I wouldn't be obese now.
Kudos to those that accept themselves the way that they are, but I just hope at the same time they aim for better health. And I think that's the controversy with the body positivity movement or FA movement because if more big people in this movement ate healthy and exercised at least 4x-5x a week, would they still be big?
Some yes, but the majority no. When I went vegan and exercised almost 5x day, I dropped 10lbs in 2 weeks. So I know if the majority ate truly clean (hardly no processed foods and little to no meat) and was more active, there would be hardly no one obese except for those with medical issues causing their obesity.
When I can afford it I will be going back vegan again.
I read one or two books a few years ago. That's actually part of the whole HAES process. Eating a healthy nutritious diet, basically doing anything to improve yourself without weight loss being the end goal. And from reading MFP, we all know that "clean eating" (or substitute whichever phrase you prefer) in and of itself won't lead to weight loss. People who like vegetables and lean meats can still struggle to lose weight because the sum total of their diet is such that they're consuming more calories than their goals might suggest. If you mean clean eating at reasonable calorie levels and nothing else, well. That can be very difficult to stick to and tends to suck out a lot of enjoyment from life and eating for a lot of people, and compliance to this form of dietary white knuckling can be quite low considering the long term.
If HAES was just like that and about getting healthy (incorporating more whole foods not necessarily "clean foods") and getting on an exercise program. Health at every size in that aspect would be great. But that is not how it is being interpreted by certain people who are overweight.4 -
I'm not trying to lose excess weight due to social pressure. I'm listening to the show now from the link.2
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distinctlybeautiful wrote: »I listened to this while working out, so I was a bit distracted and may have the wrong idea here. This is what I keep coming back to ...
"Yeah, but I was determined to not be fat forever. And my worst fear was, what if I am? And then at some point, I just was like, you know, it's fairly likely that I'm going to be fat forever. So why am I putting off figuring out how to live with that? I should, rather than spending all my time counting almonds, why not try to figure out how to be happy now?"
I think it's so important to be happy with yourself, so of course I think figuring out how to accept your body is important. What I keep struggling with is the sense of resignation I get from this, like she's given up on losing weight, something she used to be determined to do. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to express this, but I get the sense that she's removed herself from the equation, like it's not in her hands to lose weight. I'm not sure why I take that from what she said here, but that's where my mind keeps going. I guess I think it's important to figure out how to love your body even if you're trying to change it. The two are not mutually exclusive.
(Please be kind if you respond to this I'm just thinking out loud - or something like out loud - here.)
That resignation can be a tough pill to swallow, but it basically stems from another reaction to some "data" that a lot of us know all too well - the percentage of people who lose significant amounts of weight and actually keep it off. I've seen depressing numbers ranging anywhere from 3% to 20%. Some people say the studies that report these numbers are bogus, in which case I'd like to read a better one, and hope like hell that those stats are changing for the better as time goes on.
Anyway, if you were considering an investment that took a lot of your resources and only 5% of people made an appreciable amount of money, mightn't you consider other options? Any other options?
This is a really interesting point. I guess my first reaction is that statistics are malleable and often difficult to generalize. My second thought is that, no, a lot of people wouldn't invest resources with only a 5% chance of success - unless their desire for the returns outweighs their reasons for throwing in the towel. Up that 5% return to a 20% return, and I'm thinking even more people would invest. I understand what you're saying and why people might resign themselves to being fat, despite a desire to lose weight. It just makes me a bit sad I suppose..0 -
I am all about appreciating your body for what it can do for you no matter what your weight. You do need to have some self esteem all along your journey. I am also concerned with making continuous progress, no matter how small. And I don't condone fat-shaming at all. It is between that person & their doctor; those are the only 2 people that have all of the info needed to make a legitimate analysis of a person's health. I guess I fall on the line of "Be whatever size you want if you can be healthy, and don't bully others about their size, because that's just a carpy move period." You never know where someone is on their journey, how far they've come already, or what got them there.
As a side note, I hit a weight-loss plateau for over 2 years, only losing about 10lbs in that time, while tracking 100% and increasing exercise, getting more sleep, etc, before receiving an insulin resistance diagnosis. During that plateau, people saw me working so hard & eating so well and asked me why I kept working at it if I wasn't really losing weight. The answer was always that I was healthier for doing those things regardless of the number on the scale. It took a long time, but I'd made peace with the fact that it would take me a REALLY long time and no matter what I was healthier than I had been. Once I was diagnosed with the I/R & went on the meds, I started losing consistently doing what I'd already been doing.3 -
distinctlybeautiful wrote: »I listened to this while working out, so I was a bit distracted and may have the wrong idea here. This is what I keep coming back to ...
"Yeah, but I was determined to not be fat forever. And my worst fear was, what if I am? And then at some point, I just was like, you know, it's fairly likely that I'm going to be fat forever. So why am I putting off figuring out how to live with that? I should, rather than spending all my time counting almonds, why not try to figure out how to be happy now?"
I think it's so important to be happy with yourself, so of course I think figuring out how to accept your body is important. What I keep struggling with is the sense of resignation I get from this, like she's given up on losing weight, something she used to be determined to do. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to express this, but I get the sense that she's removed herself from the equation, like it's not in her hands to lose weight. I'm not sure why I take that from what she said here, but that's where my mind keeps going. I guess I think it's important to figure out how to love your body even if you're trying to change it. The two are not mutually exclusive.
(Please be kind if you respond to this I'm just thinking out loud - or something like out loud - here.)
That resignation can be a tough pill to swallow, but it basically stems from another reaction to some "data" that a lot of us know all too well - the percentage of people who lose significant amounts of weight and actually keep it off. I've seen depressing numbers ranging anywhere from 3% to 20%. Some people say the studies that report these numbers are bogus, in which case I'd like to read a better one, and hope like hell that those stats are changing for the better as time goes on.
Anyway, if you were considering an investment that took a lot of your resources and only 5% of people made an appreciable amount of money, mightn't you consider other options? Any other options?
Interesting way to think about it. But for me, personally, since the 5% chance of success isn't random, I'd take it (and I have.) I'm almost at 5 years maintenance and still going strong. If I thought it was a crap shoot whether I'd get a return on my investment, and it was random who would succeed and who would fail, then no way would I bother to invest. But since I know that the 5% who are successful are the people who stuck with it, I know that the investment fails or succeeds based on MY efforts, not on chance.
It seems fair and worthwhile to attempt the challenge, since it's totally dependent on ME. If I fail, it wasn't because of the roll of a dice. It was because I didn't follow through. I don't rely on other people's experiences and success rates to guide my own. I think each individual is going to have their own chance of success based on individual factors. The 5% success rate is meaningless to the individual.
I know that other people have challenges that I don't, so the chances of success would vary. I'm not saying my way of thinking would even work for most people, but it works for me. 7 -
I don't encourage anyone is self destructive behaviors be that drunkeness, substance abuse, or fat acceptance. As for money, smokers who die of lung cancer SAVE health care expenses because of their shorter lives. If you are worried about health care expenses, I would imagine that fat people die sooner too.0
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Last I checked, reality cares not about their feels. I'm sure her heart will check and see if it would make her feel bad when it finally gives up on trying to motorboat her "super morbidly obese" *kitten* around. Being called that is dehumanizing? Somehow more dehumanizing than being confined to rolling around on a Rascal because one's legs said "screw this" a while ago?
I've always been a "if you're happy with it, roll with it" kind of person. I fully support the right of people who want to sport gargantuan waists and accept themselves, to do so. However, I also support the right of others to mock them for letting it get to that point.
I don't care how they try to rationalize it. It eventually comes to the point where even the farthest reaching of medical problems are just an excuse to cover for sheer mental laziness, and a lack of will. "Muh thyroid!" There are people who literally have no thyroid, after having it removed, and they don't end up looking like that if they take their meds (I know two of them personally).
Okay, I'm done ranting now. This fat acceptance crap just irritates me to no end...and that's coming from a former fatty.
Holy judgment, batman. I am so sad that you think this way- what a horrible way to look at other people, and to be okay with treating and thinking of other people as less than human, especially when you claim to have been there yourself. It's a strange phenomenon I keep seeing on the boards- some people who lose a lot of weight suddenly become the harshest judges. It's a weird power twist- like when kids who are bullied grow up to be the bullies. It's almost like in order to lose the weight you had to demonize the fat and make fat people the enemy. Sorry, but that's not okay.
Maybe you need to look in the mirror and think long and hard about what got you to your highest weight and where you are now, without the superiority complex. Be human. For most people, the problem isn't the physical barriers of weight loss, but the mental ones. Loving yourself is the first step to weight loss in my opinion- not the other way around, and spreading hatred and judgement to people you know nothing about is not going to help anyone.
ETA: I also have conflicted feelings about the fat acceptance movement. Fat is not healthy, and should not be accepted as such. Fat people ARE treated differently, however, and people think it's okay to "mock" them and treat them as less than human, and I cannot get behind that. It's depressing and it has sabotaged my weight loss in the past instead of encouraging me.
I've never made excuses for my weight, but I also know that I have always been clinically depressed with suicidal ideation and if you've never experienced that, you'll never understand the horrible dark hole that you are perpetually living in. Feeling that there's mass amounts of people who prefer you don't exist only sent me deeper into that hole. I remember after my sister died suddenly and tragically, I was at my heaviest weight. I spent my birthday alone after that and I was so, so sad. I thought instead of a cake, I'd go to the store and buy one of those character cupcakes- you know the cute ones made to look like characters or flowers? I got one that looked like Oscar the Grouch because it made me smile a little. As I went through the self checkout- sure enough, someone commented that the fat girl just came in to buy a sugary cupcake to stuff her face with, just loud enough so I'd "accidentally" overhear. I went home and sobbed uncontrollably, on my birthday, alone. I was very close to taking my own life that day.
It's been a long, hard and emotional road, but I'm finally getting somewhere. As a result, I became actually ready to do something about my weight, and to care enough about my own life to take those steps.
So please, be kind. Your personal experience is not everyone else's.
I think that you may have misunderstood my point in a couple of places. First, I do not personally partake in said mockery. I do however, have a very abrasive approach to people who whine about being fat, then go home and cry into a tub of Ben and Jerry's over it. I know several of these people in a close manner. As I said, if someone is happy with it, fine. Eat away and enjoy it.
However, most of these people don't appear to be happy with it, and trying to coddle their feels, when they are their own worst enemy, isn't exactly going to help. What one person hears as "acceptance", another may interpret as resignation to failure.
The "everyone is different" blade cuts both ways. For the longest time, I loathed myself, but figured there was nothing I could do about it because "blah blah genetics, blah blah your metabolism". No I, like most, had a severe case of Fork-to-Mouth Disease. It took a whole lot of negative feedback, before I was willing to accept that, and fix it.
Really? Because a lot of your words look suspiciously like mockery. Or maybe by mockery you meant directly to one's face. I still don't see how anyone can support that (even if you claim not to participate yourself). Still not okay.
Let me tell you, reading the hateful opinions of fat people, including comments like your previous posts in this thread, felt like an attack almost as hurtful as things said directly to or about me. It was just more fuel in the back of my head that made me believe everyone would prefer I didn't exist. Part of that is my own problem, but I still see it as mockery even if you aren't saying it directly to someone. Pretty harsh words about people you don't know there.
Of course everyone is different- that was my whole point- maybe negative feedback worked for you, but I'd say you're the exception instead of the norm. Again, your experience is not everyone else's. Most people don't respond positively to ridicule, hatred, and shaming. In my mind, why would anyone want to lose weight to appease those who make them feel bad? I'd say that's more likely to create resentment and a feeling of defeat rather than empowerment. Or we end up with another case of the bullied being the bullies.5 -
Char231023 wrote: »OMG this whole podcast resonated so well with what I am going through especially with Elna and Roxanne. Before I turned 21, I never thought of weight like I do now and I especially never thought to hate myself or my body because I was morbidly obese. Yes, I knew I needed to lose some weight, but I never thought about it in such a negatively draining obsessive way until I realized that people do care about looks and they do treat you differently based on how you look. It really didn't hit me how much a lot of men care about a woman's weight until my experience with being rejected because of my weight happened. After that I hit a deep depression because I knew if I didn't lose the weight, it would always be this way for me but knowing the truth---that people treat me differently because I am smaller---is what is the most depressing thing about losing all the weight. Sometimes I think I sabotage my weight loss efforts because I know that I am going to be treated differently and I am not ready for that.
Also on should society's views on fat people change?--- I have a love/hate thing for the FAT acceptance movement. On the one hand, its so good to be positive about yourself and your body as it is and I am working on loving myself again, but at the same time if you are obviously overweight even if its not affecting your health presently, it can and most likely will in the long run. For me, its already starting to affect me and I'm only 24 and not even morbidly obese anymore, just in class I. So I am on the fence about that subject and think its a case by case thing. Not every overweight person needs to lose weight especially if they are more muscle than fat, tall or athletic. One thing I would like to see happen is that the FA movement move towards promoting better eating: less processed foods and more produce. I would really get on the wagon then. If I had had that growing up, I wouldn't be obese now.
Kudos to those that accept themselves the way that they are, but I just hope at the same time they aim for better health. And I think that's the controversy with the body positivity movement or FA movement because if more big people in this movement ate healthy and exercised at least 4x-5x a week, would they still be big?
Some yes, but the majority no. When I went vegan and exercised almost 5x day, I dropped 10lbs in 2 weeks. So I know if the majority ate truly clean (hardly no processed foods and little to no meat) and was more active, there would be hardly no one obese except for those with medical issues causing their obesity.
When I can afford it I will be going back vegan again.
I read one or two books a few years ago. That's actually part of the whole HAES process. Eating a healthy nutritious diet, basically doing anything to improve yourself without weight loss being the end goal. And from reading MFP, we all know that "clean eating" (or substitute whichever phrase you prefer) in and of itself won't lead to weight loss. People who like vegetables and lean meats can still struggle to lose weight because the sum total of their diet is such that they're consuming more calories than their goals might suggest. If you mean clean eating at reasonable calorie levels and nothing else, well. That can be very difficult to stick to and tends to suck out a lot of enjoyment from life and eating for a lot of people, and compliance to this form of dietary white knuckling can be quite low considering the long term.
If HAES was just like that and about getting healthy (incorporating more whole foods not necessarily "clean foods") and getting on an exercise program. Health at every size in that aspect would be great. But that is not how it is being interpreted by certain people who are overweight.
I most likely don't completely understand this comment, but to me that's just like saying because some people with *cough* nutritional issues abuse the MyFitnessPal app, aw hell I don't know. Anyone can misinterpret anything. Perhaps you could expand on your comment? Some people misinterpret HAES and instead don't do anything healthy whatsoever for their bodies and consider themselves healthy?0 -
Char231023 wrote: »OMG this whole podcast resonated so well with what I am going through especially with Elna and Roxanne. Before I turned 21, I never thought of weight like I do now and I especially never thought to hate myself or my body because I was morbidly obese. Yes, I knew I needed to lose some weight, but I never thought about it in such a negatively draining obsessive way until I realized that people do care about looks and they do treat you differently based on how you look. It really didn't hit me how much a lot of men care about a woman's weight until my experience with being rejected because of my weight happened. After that I hit a deep depression because I knew if I didn't lose the weight, it would always be this way for me but knowing the truth---that people treat me differently because I am smaller---is what is the most depressing thing about losing all the weight. Sometimes I think I sabotage my weight loss efforts because I know that I am going to be treated differently and I am not ready for that.
Also on should society's views on fat people change?--- I have a love/hate thing for the FAT acceptance movement. On the one hand, its so good to be positive about yourself and your body as it is and I am working on loving myself again, but at the same time if you are obviously overweight even if its not affecting your health presently, it can and most likely will in the long run. For me, its already starting to affect me and I'm only 24 and not even morbidly obese anymore, just in class I. So I am on the fence about that subject and think its a case by case thing. Not every overweight person needs to lose weight especially if they are more muscle than fat, tall or athletic. One thing I would like to see happen is that the FA movement move towards promoting better eating: less processed foods and more produce. I would really get on the wagon then. If I had had that growing up, I wouldn't be obese now.
Kudos to those that accept themselves the way that they are, but I just hope at the same time they aim for better health. And I think that's the controversy with the body positivity movement or FA movement because if more big people in this movement ate healthy and exercised at least 4x-5x a week, would they still be big?
Some yes, but the majority no. When I went vegan and exercised almost 5x day, I dropped 10lbs in 2 weeks. So I know if the majority ate truly clean (hardly no processed foods and little to no meat) and was more active, there would be hardly no one obese except for those with medical issues causing their obesity.
When I can afford it I will be going back vegan again.
I read one or two books a few years ago. That's actually part of the whole HAES process. Eating a healthy nutritious diet, basically doing anything to improve yourself without weight loss being the end goal. And from reading MFP, we all know that "clean eating" (or substitute whichever phrase you prefer) in and of itself won't lead to weight loss. People who like vegetables and lean meats can still struggle to lose weight because the sum total of their diet is such that they're consuming more calories than their goals might suggest. If you mean clean eating at reasonable calorie levels and nothing else, well. That can be very difficult to stick to and tends to suck out a lot of enjoyment from life and eating for a lot of people, and compliance to this form of dietary white knuckling can be quite low considering the long term.
If HAES was just like that and about getting healthy (incorporating more whole foods not necessarily "clean foods") and getting on an exercise program. Health at every size in that aspect would be great. But that is not how it is being interpreted by certain people who are overweight.
I most likely don't completely understand this comment, but to me that's just like saying because some people with *cough* nutritional issues abuse the MyFitnessPal app, aw hell I don't know. Anyone can misinterpret anything. Perhaps you could expand on your comment? Some people misinterpret HAES and instead don't do anything healthy whatsoever for their bodies and consider themselves healthy?
I would daresay that some of the most vocal proponents of HAES don't try to improve their health and berate people who do try to lose weight. They don't simply misinterpret it, they twist it's original meaning entirely.5 -
Char231023 wrote: »OMG this whole podcast resonated so well with what I am going through especially with Elna and Roxanne. Before I turned 21, I never thought of weight like I do now and I especially never thought to hate myself or my body because I was morbidly obese. Yes, I knew I needed to lose some weight, but I never thought about it in such a negatively draining obsessive way until I realized that people do care about looks and they do treat you differently based on how you look. It really didn't hit me how much a lot of men care about a woman's weight until my experience with being rejected because of my weight happened. After that I hit a deep depression because I knew if I didn't lose the weight, it would always be this way for me but knowing the truth---that people treat me differently because I am smaller---is what is the most depressing thing about losing all the weight. Sometimes I think I sabotage my weight loss efforts because I know that I am going to be treated differently and I am not ready for that.
Also on should society's views on fat people change?--- I have a love/hate thing for the FAT acceptance movement. On the one hand, its so good to be positive about yourself and your body as it is and I am working on loving myself again, but at the same time if you are obviously overweight even if its not affecting your health presently, it can and most likely will in the long run. For me, its already starting to affect me and I'm only 24 and not even morbidly obese anymore, just in class I. So I am on the fence about that subject and think its a case by case thing. Not every overweight person needs to lose weight especially if they are more muscle than fat, tall or athletic. One thing I would like to see happen is that the FA movement move towards promoting better eating: less processed foods and more produce. I would really get on the wagon then. If I had had that growing up, I wouldn't be obese now.
Kudos to those that accept themselves the way that they are, but I just hope at the same time they aim for better health. And I think that's the controversy with the body positivity movement or FA movement because if more big people in this movement ate healthy and exercised at least 4x-5x a week, would they still be big?
Some yes, but the majority no. When I went vegan and exercised almost 5x day, I dropped 10lbs in 2 weeks. So I know if the majority ate truly clean (hardly no processed foods and little to no meat) and was more active, there would be hardly no one obese except for those with medical issues causing their obesity.
When I can afford it I will be going back vegan again.
I read one or two books a few years ago. That's actually part of the whole HAES process. Eating a healthy nutritious diet, basically doing anything to improve yourself without weight loss being the end goal. And from reading MFP, we all know that "clean eating" (or substitute whichever phrase you prefer) in and of itself won't lead to weight loss. People who like vegetables and lean meats can still struggle to lose weight because the sum total of their diet is such that they're consuming more calories than their goals might suggest. If you mean clean eating at reasonable calorie levels and nothing else, well. That can be very difficult to stick to and tends to suck out a lot of enjoyment from life and eating for a lot of people, and compliance to this form of dietary white knuckling can be quite low considering the long term.
If HAES was just like that and about getting healthy (incorporating more whole foods not necessarily "clean foods") and getting on an exercise program. Health at every size in that aspect would be great. But that is not how it is being interpreted by certain people who are overweight.
I most likely don't completely understand this comment, but to me that's just like saying because some people with *cough* nutritional issues abuse the MyFitnessPal app, aw hell I don't know. Anyone can misinterpret anything. Perhaps you could expand on your comment? Some people misinterpret HAES and instead don't do anything healthy whatsoever for their bodies and consider themselves healthy?
I would daresay that some of the most vocal proponents of HAES don't try to improve their health and berate people who do try to lose weight. They don't simply misinterpret it, they twist it's original meaning entirely.
Understandable. And while that point is not entirely irrelevant, consider, for example, that many if not most people would agree that Freelee the Banana girl is a bit of a nutter. I guess I wouldn't see what that has to do with veganism or your neighborhood vegan1 -
Char231023 wrote: »OMG this whole podcast resonated so well with what I am going through especially with Elna and Roxanne. Before I turned 21, I never thought of weight like I do now and I especially never thought to hate myself or my body because I was morbidly obese. Yes, I knew I needed to lose some weight, but I never thought about it in such a negatively draining obsessive way until I realized that people do care about looks and they do treat you differently based on how you look. It really didn't hit me how much a lot of men care about a woman's weight until my experience with being rejected because of my weight happened. After that I hit a deep depression because I knew if I didn't lose the weight, it would always be this way for me but knowing the truth---that people treat me differently because I am smaller---is what is the most depressing thing about losing all the weight. Sometimes I think I sabotage my weight loss efforts because I know that I am going to be treated differently and I am not ready for that.
Also on should society's views on fat people change?--- I have a love/hate thing for the FAT acceptance movement. On the one hand, its so good to be positive about yourself and your body as it is and I am working on loving myself again, but at the same time if you are obviously overweight even if its not affecting your health presently, it can and most likely will in the long run. For me, its already starting to affect me and I'm only 24 and not even morbidly obese anymore, just in class I. So I am on the fence about that subject and think its a case by case thing. Not every overweight person needs to lose weight especially if they are more muscle than fat, tall or athletic. One thing I would like to see happen is that the FA movement move towards promoting better eating: less processed foods and more produce. I would really get on the wagon then. If I had had that growing up, I wouldn't be obese now.
Kudos to those that accept themselves the way that they are, but I just hope at the same time they aim for better health. And I think that's the controversy with the body positivity movement or FA movement because if more big people in this movement ate healthy and exercised at least 4x-5x a week, would they still be big?
Some yes, but the majority no. When I went vegan and exercised almost 5x day, I dropped 10lbs in 2 weeks. So I know if the majority ate truly clean (hardly no processed foods and little to no meat) and was more active, there would be hardly no one obese except for those with medical issues causing their obesity.
When I can afford it I will be going back vegan again.
I read one or two books a few years ago. That's actually part of the whole HAES process. Eating a healthy nutritious diet, basically doing anything to improve yourself without weight loss being the end goal. And from reading MFP, we all know that "clean eating" (or substitute whichever phrase you prefer) in and of itself won't lead to weight loss. People who like vegetables and lean meats can still struggle to lose weight because the sum total of their diet is such that they're consuming more calories than their goals might suggest. If you mean clean eating at reasonable calorie levels and nothing else, well. That can be very difficult to stick to and tends to suck out a lot of enjoyment from life and eating for a lot of people, and compliance to this form of dietary white knuckling can be quite low considering the long term.
If HAES was just like that and about getting healthy (incorporating more whole foods not necessarily "clean foods") and getting on an exercise program. Health at every size in that aspect would be great. But that is not how it is being interpreted by certain people who are overweight.
I most likely don't completely understand this comment, but to me that's just like saying because some people with *cough* nutritional issues abuse the MyFitnessPal app, aw hell I don't know. Anyone can misinterpret anything. Perhaps you could expand on your comment? Some people misinterpret HAES and instead don't do anything healthy whatsoever for their bodies and consider themselves healthy?
I would daresay that some of the most vocal proponents of HAES don't try to improve their health and berate people who do try to lose weight. They don't simply misinterpret it, they twist it's original meaning entirely.
Understandable. And while that point is not entirely irrelevant, consider, for example, that many if not most people would agree that Freelee the Banana girl is a bit of a nutter. I guess I wouldn't see what that has to do with veganism or your neighborhood vegan
I see your point. If all I knew about vegans was Freely, I'd be skeptical about veganism. I hear about HAES mostly in the context of some of the more negative/crazy things that are said and done by certain ones who are like SJWs for themselves and consider themselves an oppressed minority. I certainly hope that their influence on others who advocate for HAES is limited.
I'm interested in what @Char231023 might add to her own comment about HAES.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Last I checked, reality cares not about their feels. I'm sure her heart will check and see if it would make her feel bad when it finally gives up on trying to motorboat her "super morbidly obese" *kitten* around. Being called that is dehumanizing? Somehow more dehumanizing than being confined to rolling around on a Rascal because one's legs said "screw this" a while ago?
I've always been a "if you're happy with it, roll with it" kind of person. I fully support the right of people who want to sport gargantuan waists and accept themselves, to do so. However, I also support the right of others to mock them for letting it get to that point.
I don't care how they try to rationalize it. It eventually comes to the point where even the farthest reaching of medical problems are just an excuse to cover for sheer mental laziness, and a lack of will. "Muh thyroid!" There are people who literally have no thyroid, after having it removed, and they don't end up looking like that if they take their meds (I know two of them personally).
Okay, I'm done ranting now. This fat acceptance crap just irritates me to no end...and that's coming from a former fatty.
Holy judgment, batman. I am so sad that you think this way- what a horrible way to look at other people, and to be okay with treating and thinking of other people as less than human, especially when you claim to have been there yourself. It's a strange phenomenon I keep seeing on the boards- some people who lose a lot of weight suddenly become the harshest judges. It's a weird power twist- like when kids who are bullied grow up to be the bullies. It's almost like in order to lose the weight you had to demonize the fat and make fat people the enemy. Sorry, but that's not okay.
Maybe you need to look in the mirror and think long and hard about what got you to your highest weight and where you are now, without the superiority complex. Be human. For most people, the problem isn't the physical barriers of weight loss, but the mental ones. Loving yourself is the first step to weight loss in my opinion- not the other way around, and spreading hatred and judgement to people you know nothing about is not going to help anyone.
ETA: I also have conflicted feelings about the fat acceptance movement. Fat is not healthy, and should not be accepted as such. Fat people ARE treated differently, however, and people think it's okay to "mock" them and treat them as less than human, and I cannot get behind that. It's depressing and it has sabotaged my weight loss in the past instead of encouraging me.
I've never made excuses for my weight, but I also know that I have always been clinically depressed with suicidal ideation and if you've never experienced that, you'll never understand the horrible dark hole that you are perpetually living in. Feeling that there's mass amounts of people who prefer you don't exist only sent me deeper into that hole. I remember after my sister died suddenly and tragically, I was at my heaviest weight. I spent my birthday alone after that and I was so, so sad. I thought instead of a cake, I'd go to the store and buy one of those character cupcakes- you know the cute ones made to look like characters or flowers? I got one that looked like Oscar the Grouch because it made me smile a little. As I went through the self checkout- sure enough, someone commented that the fat girl just came in to buy a sugary cupcake to stuff her face with, just loud enough so I'd "accidentally" overhear. I went home and sobbed uncontrollably, on my birthday, alone. I was very close to taking my own life that day.
It's been a long, hard and emotional road, but I'm finally getting somewhere. As a result, I became actually ready to do something about my weight, and to care enough about my own life to take those steps.
So please, be kind. Your personal experience is not everyone else's.
I think that you may have misunderstood my point in a couple of places. First, I do not personally partake in said mockery. I do however, have a very abrasive approach to people who whine about being fat, then go home and cry into a tub of Ben and Jerry's over it. I know several of these people in a close manner. As I said, if someone is happy with it, fine. Eat away and enjoy it.
However, most of these people don't appear to be happy with it, and trying to coddle their feels, when they are their own worst enemy, isn't exactly going to help. What one person hears as "acceptance", another may interpret as resignation to failure.
The "everyone is different" blade cuts both ways. For the longest time, I loathed myself, but figured there was nothing I could do about it because "blah blah genetics, blah blah your metabolism". No I, like most, had a severe case of Fork-to-Mouth Disease. It took a whole lot of negative feedback, before I was willing to accept that, and fix it.
Really? Because a lot of your words look suspiciously like mockery. Or maybe by mockery you meant directly to one's face. I still don't see how anyone can support that (even if you claim not to participate yourself). Still not okay.
Let me tell you, reading the hateful opinions of fat people, including comments like your previous posts in this thread, felt like an attack almost as hurtful as things said directly to or about me. It was just more fuel in the back of my head that made me believe everyone would prefer I didn't exist. Part of that is my own problem, but I still see it as mockery even if you aren't saying it directly to someone. Pretty harsh words about people you don't know there.
Of course everyone is different- that was my whole point- maybe negative feedback worked for you, but I'd say you're the exception instead of the norm. Again, your experience is not everyone else's. Most people don't respond positively to ridicule, hatred, and shaming. In my mind, why would anyone want to lose weight to appease those who make them feel bad? I'd say that's more likely to create resentment and a feeling of defeat rather than empowerment. Or we end up with another case of the bullied being the bullies.
Yes, I specifically meant direct to face mockery. I have never taken generalized commentary personally, and I find it hilarious when people do. Hell, if I did, I'd have gone insane long ago. Between my smoking, being fat, and open carrying a 1911 everywhere I go, I'd be firmly convinced that I am trying to give babies cancer, while having a heart attack and performing a mass shooting all at once.
Try to only worry about what it said specifically to you. It helps reduce stress.2
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