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Should junk food be taxed?
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We already pay tax on food in the UK and on everything else, Value Added Tax!2
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No. I think we should fund better nutritional education in inner cities and provide tax subsidies to actual grocery stores with real food in food deserts.6
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
30 years ago, it was fat that was the bad thing to eat and there are still many organizations that feel that way. What would it do to your current food budget if fat was taxed at 500%? Would that be fair?
I would protest to high heaven.
I don't doubt it. Why is it OK to do to other people for the way they eat but not to you for the way you eat?
I do not care how anyone eats as long as it is the way they want to eat. It is more about getting a free ride tax wise.
Actually I do not understand why people put up with sin taxes unless they are on public health services so they do not pay for medical services.
The people who want sin taxes are the people who don't sin that way. Prohibitionists weren't drinkers; they wanted drinkers to stop drinking. Sin taxes are about trying to force a behavior modification onto other people and hopefully making some extra money on the side while they are doing it.
Going after other people's sins is taking a big chance since the next sin that people go after may be your own.
Everyone pays for health services, either in socialized medicine or taxes for things like Medicare and Medicaid in the US. If we want a healthier population, it needs to be done through encouragement and making healthy living more convenient and cheaper, not through financial punishment for certain choices.
When you say "it needs to be done through encouragement and..." i assume you mean "i prefer that it be done through encouragement and..." because cigarettes are a great example of the government using taxation to minimise the use of harmful products and promote a healthier population.0 -
Absolutely not.0
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3dogsrunning wrote: »Rob_Drewry wrote: »Excessive sugar consumption causes a boat load of health issues. I'd be in favor of taxing "junk food" if a), it could be positively identified/quantified, b) the tax could be placed in a trust that could only be used to help mitigate the health cost of obesity, and c) could not be used by the government for any other purpose.
Since c is impossible, I'm against it. How about we bring back physical education in our schools?
Do you not have physical education in the schools where you are? There are more options for phys ed now then when I was in high school.
Also, the problem extends beyond children.
I am still in the don't tax it camp though.
Phys Ed these days is not like it was in the 60s when I was in primary school. We were more fit as a nation back then. Maybe we could learn something from looking back, recognizing what worked then and applying it present day.3 -
We already pay tax on food in the UK and on everything else, Value Added Tax!
No, food and drinks are zero-rated for VAT with some exceptions:Food and drink for human consumption is usually zero-rated but some items are standard-rated, including alcoholic drinks, confectionery, crisps and savoury snacks, hot food, sports drinks, hot takeaways, ice cream, soft drinks and mineral water.
Because certain food and drink is zero-rated, so are certain animals and animal feeds, and plants and seeds - if the animal or plant produces food that is normally used for human consumption
Source: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-of-vat-on-different-goods-and-services0 -
How would you propose they do that? Cigarettes and alcohol have a clear definition, junk food does not. Do you define it as fast food? Do they tax fast food restaurants? What about regular restaurants where fast food is an option? Do you also tax potatoes and ground beef if there also happened to be frying oil in the cart? What abou grilled chicken being sold at fast food restaurants? Would you define it as food with high calorie density but low nutritional value? All kinds of oil and butter would qualify then. Do you define it by the number of ingredients? A salad would be the perfect thing to tax. How about we define it as containing highly processed ingredients? Those local high calorie ethnic dishes would pass the test but protein powder would fail.
Not only is there no one definition, but what people consider "junk" can also vary widely in calorie content to the point where you can't lump everything into one category then accuse it of contributing to obesity. This is a meaningless classification that is useless at best. Short of installing a device in everyone's jaw that clamps it shut when they reach their ideal calorie limit I don't see how you could force people who don't care to change to make any changes.
Now if the government reduces the prices of vegetables through larger subsidies and companies jump on making lower calorie good tasting satiating food convenient and widely available, then maybe, possibly it would help some. Even then it's not guaranteed.7 -
CurlyCockney wrote: »We already pay tax on food in the UK and on everything else, Value Added Tax!
No, food and drinks are zero-rated for VAT with some exceptions:Food and drink for human consumption is usually zero-rated but some items are standard-rated, including alcoholic drinks, confectionery, crisps and savoury snacks, hot food, sports drinks, hot takeaways, ice cream, soft drinks and mineral water.
Because certain food and drink is zero-rated, so are certain animals and animal feeds, and plants and seeds - if the animal or plant produces food that is normally used for human consumption
Source: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-of-vat-on-different-goods-and-services
Ok we already pay tax (VAT) on junk food then (confectionery, crisps and savoury snacks, hot food, sports drinks, hot takeaways, ice cream, soft drinks) Must remember to get my wording exactly right in future.0 -
CurlyCockney wrote: »We already pay tax on food in the UK and on everything else, Value Added Tax!
No, food and drinks are zero-rated for VAT with some exceptions:Food and drink for human consumption is usually zero-rated but some items are standard-rated, including alcoholic drinks, confectionery, crisps and savoury snacks, hot food, sports drinks, hot takeaways, ice cream, soft drinks and mineral water.
Because certain food and drink is zero-rated, so are certain animals and animal feeds, and plants and seeds - if the animal or plant produces food that is normally used for human consumption
Source: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-of-vat-on-different-goods-and-services
Ok we already pay tax (VAT) on junk food then (confectionery, crisps and savoury snacks, hot food, sports drinks, hot takeaways, ice cream, soft drinks) Must remember to get my wording exactly right in future.
Wording doesn't always have to be exactly right, unless the wording conveys a completely different meaning. Mistakes happen, but I'm sure neither of us would intentionally mislead.0 -
Rob_Drewry wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »Rob_Drewry wrote: »Excessive sugar consumption causes a boat load of health issues. I'd be in favor of taxing "junk food" if a), it could be positively identified/quantified, b) the tax could be placed in a trust that could only be used to help mitigate the health cost of obesity, and c) could not be used by the government for any other purpose.
Since c is impossible, I'm against it. How about we bring back physical education in our schools?
Do you not have physical education in the schools where you are? There are more options for phys ed now then when I was in high school.
Also, the problem extends beyond children.
I am still in the don't tax it camp though.
Phys Ed these days is not like it was in the 60s when I was in primary school. We were more fit as a nation back then. Maybe we could learn something from looking back, recognizing what worked then and applying it present day.
I think there are a lot more factors to difference in fitness levels than just Phys Ed. Everything from how much people relied on cars, to entertainment, to urban planning.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »For those that don't think this stuff should be taxed, ho do you propose paying the medical costs ot the 30% of the population thst will have diabetes by 2050 or before?
Remember this stuff.is a prime contributor to the situation.
So is lack of exercise. Are we going to start taxing people for that too?
That would be fine by me. Lot harder to determine what is adequate exercise as opposed to agreeing pop, candy, ding dongs, chips, etc are junk food.
You forgot to answer my question. How do we as a society pay for the 30% of the population with diabetes by a 2050 if we continue on our current path?
Since "we" are in different countries with totally different health care systems I don't really see how I can answer that.
And is that even a fact?
ETA - I can also eat tons of food that can put me at risk for diabetes without having to buy pop, candy, ding dongs, chips, etc.
Have no idea where you live but in the US, yes 30% with diabetes is the projection by the Center for Disease Control:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/pressrel/2010/r101022.html
Thanks.
That link identifies physical activity as critical as healthy eating.0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »caroldavison332 wrote: »no. we pay too much in taxes already and it won't dissuade people from eating it. Look what they pay for cigarettes.
They're damn near $30 a pack in Australia and people still smoke.
They won't just be sick, then dead - they'll be broke while sick, then dead.0 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Isn't candy already taxable? Could have sworn I payed tax on my candy bar the last time I purchased one....but not all candy is junk food either....what about Dark Chocolate? Sweetened drinks, why sweetened? Would that include sweet tea, lemonade, milk, chocolate milk? ----Can't find any redeeming quality about chips except they are yummy...lol
That's what I was thinking - "junk food" is already taxed.
No junk food is taxed like any other food like lettuce, apples, etc in most states. I'd assume the op is talking about something more than the regular sales tax.
Where I am (in Canada) food like lettuce, apples,etc are not taxed. Candy bars, chips etc. are.
US is the same. there are no taxes on food. However, certain things are taxed. (such as candy etc)
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Rob_Drewry wrote: »Excessive sugar consumption causes a boat load of health issues. I'd be in favor of taxing "junk food" if a), it could be positively identified/quantified, b) the tax could be placed in a trust that could only be used to help mitigate the health cost of obesity, and c) could not be used by the government for any other purpose.
Since c is impossible, I'm against it. How about we bring back physical education in our schools?
My kids' school has an hour of PE every day...0 -
Philly recently passed a soda tax on soda (diet and regular) and other sugary or artificially sweetened drinks. I was down with it because most of the money will go towards pre-K for city kids. Ultimately it's not going to stop people from drinking it but taxes are a necessary evil. I'd rather they be increased on stuff like soda (which I drink sometimes) than produce.1
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mommarnurse wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Isn't candy already taxable? Could have sworn I payed tax on my candy bar the last time I purchased one....but not all candy is junk food either....what about Dark Chocolate? Sweetened drinks, why sweetened? Would that include sweet tea, lemonade, milk, chocolate milk? ----Can't find any redeeming quality about chips except they are yummy...lol
That's what I was thinking - "junk food" is already taxed.
No junk food is taxed like any other food like lettuce, apples, etc in most states. I'd assume the op is talking about something more than the regular sales tax.
Where I am (in Canada) food like lettuce, apples,etc are not taxed. Candy bars, chips etc. are.
US is the same. there are no taxes on food. However, certain things are taxed. (such as candy etc)
Correction: there is no Federal tax on these things. There are however, state and local taxes that can be levied, depending upon the area6 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Rather than punitively taxing food items, I do believe that the U.S. federal government should bring to an end the subsidy for domestic sugar production. That will raise the price of sugar, yes.
I was going to say the same thing about HFCS in the U.S. Either tax products that contain HFCS or stop subsidizing it so heavily. Either way results in packaged food being on a more even costing structure with other foods. My biggest concern is that poor people often rely on cheap packaged / junk food to survive (the reason why obesity is an issue even with the poor here - affordable fresh food is not as accessible as affordable packaged and calorie dense food... but that is a different thread), so an increase in food assistance would be needed to make this work.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Rather than punitively taxing food items, I do believe that the U.S. federal government should bring to an end the subsidy for domestic sugar production. That will raise the price of sugar, yes.
I was going to say the same thing about HFCS in the U.S. Either tax products that contain HFCS or stop subsidizing it so heavily. Either way results in packaged food being on a more even costing structure with other foods. My biggest concern is that poor people often rely on cheap packaged / junk food to survive (the reason why obesity is an issue even with the poor here - affordable fresh food is not as accessible as affordable packaged and calorie dense food... but that is a different thread), so an increase in food assistance would be needed to make this work.
No, they're fat because they don't understand (or care) how math works. I dropped 15 pounds eating fast food at one point, out of sheer laziness.0 -
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