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Overweight people are less intelligent than people who are do not have weight problems
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"Gallowmere1984 wrote: »You seem to have missed some key words in what I wrote. "All" was also not among them.
You said "most". Which is really, frankly, not a whole lot better.
"Most" could be anywhere from 50.(whatever)% to 99.(whatever)%, so yeah, it leaves a whole lot of room on the number scale.
Also, I will admit, it MAY BE getting better.
In 2012, the diet pill industry was pulling down about $20B/yr in the US alone, and if you factor in stuff like Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, etc., it went up to around $60B/yr. For the last two years though, all of these have seen reduced profits, dwindling participation, etc. I've seen it speculated that the proliferation of smartphone apps, similar to (and including) the one used by MFP, has a lot to do with it.
What still concerns me though, is the fact that this has been going on for two years running (almost three now), yet we don't appear to be seeing any appreciable decline in the obesity rates. So yeah, you can see why I still continue to believe that said apps are just the new thing that most of the obese have jumped onto, without actually bothering to learn how any of this stuff (CICO, general nutrition, etc.) actually works.0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/fat-people-are-less-intelligent-than-those-who-are-overweight/?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/fat-people-are-less-intelligent-than-those-who-are-not-overweigh/?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf30838983
Seriously, now overweight people are less intelligent?
Has anyone found the crap "paper" behind this? I have yet to locate ii. Thank you.
Overweight men and women have less grey and white matter in key areas of the brain, it suggests. They also have greater impulsiveness and "altered reward processing", the study said.
The researchers said that their findings could explain why overweight people make poor diet choices - they do not have the mental capacity to control themselves.
Have read a few studies on this. There are two factors at play. One, people of lower intelligence are more likely to be fat in the first place, which means that in any epidemiological research this connection will appear, but it does not indicate that being fat lowers your intelligence, but rather that being unintelligent makes you less able to control your diet and weight.
Second, there is some indication that the hormonal disruptions associated with obesity DO cause neurological degeneration (e.g. the vast majority of Alzheimer's sufferers are diabetic or prediabetic, in fact the medical community is discussing reclassifying Alzheimer's as "type 3 diabetes"), which will over time lead to reduced intelligence.
This suggests bidirectional causality due to multiple factors, but I would presume that the former (people of low intelligence are more likely to be fat) is more of a factor than the latter, as being mildly overweight is unlikely to cause a level of e.g. insulin resistance sufficient to substantially lower intelligence. However, as the proportion of the population that is significantly overweight/obese increases, then that may change.
Just my 2c.3 -
Wut?1
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Looking at brain structures as a predictor for "intelligence" is problematic for several reasons:
* It's assuming that the structural changes noted are related to "intelligence"
* It's assuming causality rather than correlation in the relationship
* It seems to fail to take education and cultural issues into consideration
* There are many kinds of "intelligence" beside that measured by IQ tests
It used to be thought that birds were not very intelligent because of the low brain to body mass ratio. We now know that birds' brains are organized differently than mammalian brains, and corvids and parrots are in the dog or even chimpanzee level of intelligence. With regard to humans, we know that brains can reorganize themselves so it's very dangerous extrapolating from brain size and structure; see:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oukoe-uk-brain-tiny-idUKN19305100200707203 -
Gah! So many big wurdz3
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"Gallowmere1984 wrote: »You seem to have missed some key words in what I wrote. "All" was also not among them.
You said "most". Which is really, frankly, not a whole lot better.
Based on scientific evidence such as comment sections under diet related articles on the internet and conversations overheard at the office on a daily basis, I think "most" is probably pretty accurate.0 -
Oh, stop. You asked if you'd read it correctly and then misquoted, which proved that you hadn't, which he pointed out."Gallowmere1984 wrote: »You seem to have missed some key words in what I wrote. "All" was also not among them.
You said "most". Which is really, frankly, not a whole lot better.
The answer to your question about whether you read it correctly was NO, you didn't,
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Oh, stop. You asked if you'd read it correctly and then misquoted, which proved that you hadn't, which he pointed out."Gallowmere1984 wrote: »You seem to have missed some key words in what I wrote. "All" was also not among them.
You said "most". Which is really, frankly, not a whole lot better.
The answer to your question about whether you read it correctly was NO, you didn't,
I didn't MISQUOTE. I put the quotations after. Now we're bickering about my phrasing because I called out what is CLEAR fat bias and a person's justification to castigate overweight and obese individuals as LESS VALUABLE HUMAN BEINGS.
Cut it out already.
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You asked if you read it wrong. The answer was Yes, you did. The fact that if you'd read it correctly you still wouldn't like what he said doesn't change the fact that you read it wrong.
Oh, stop. You asked if you'd read it correctly and then misquoted, which proved that you hadn't, which he pointed out."Gallowmere1984 wrote: »You seem to have missed some key words in what I wrote. "All" was also not among them.
You said "most". Which is really, frankly, not a whole lot better.
The answer to your question about whether you read it correctly was NO, you didn't,
I didn't MISQUOTE. I put the quotations after. Now we're bickering about my phrasing because I called out what is CLEAR fat bias and a person's justification to castigate overweight and obese individuals as LESS VALUABLE HUMAN BEINGS.
Cut it out already.
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99% is effectively all, and you're missing the point.1
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Oh, stop. You asked if you'd read it correctly and then misquoted, which proved that you hadn't, which he pointed out."Gallowmere1984 wrote: »You seem to have missed some key words in what I wrote. "All" was also not among them.
You said "most". Which is really, frankly, not a whole lot better.
The answer to your question about whether you read it correctly was NO, you didn't,
I didn't MISQUOTE. I put the quotations after. Now we're bickering about my phrasing because I called out what is CLEAR fat bias and a person's justification to castigate overweight and obese individuals as LESS VALUABLE HUMAN BEINGS.
Cut it out already.
Except he did none of those things. He pointed out, rightfully, that "most" overweight and obese people go from one "diet" to the next fueling a 60bil per year industry of pills,shakes, books, workout videos, thigh masters and snake oil trying to find some magic bullet to weight loss. That's not calling them less valuable, but it certainly does speak to their gullibility, or desperation or some mixture of the two.
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Prioritization is not indicative of ability, nor did I indicate that it was. The difference is that most don't actually appear to learn. ... That doesn't mean that they aren't gullible as hell, with a distinct lack of critical thinking ability.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »"Most" could be anywhere from 50.(whatever)% to 99.(whatever)%, so yeah, it leaves a whole lot of room on the number scale.
This is pretty awful to say about people. And yes, it's a value judgment about the worth of people as well. Actually this whole "fat people are stupider than non-fat people" is a value judgment couched as an empirical "intelligence" study. The entire premise of the original article upon which this thread is founded is one of merit measurement, and I repeat, it's pure eugenics. And utter nonsense.2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Prioritization is not indicative of ability, nor did I indicate that it was. The difference is that most don't actually appear to learn. ... That doesn't mean that they aren't gullible as hell, with a distinct lack of critical thinking ability.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »"Most" could be anywhere from 50.(whatever)% to 99.(whatever)%, so yeah, it leaves a whole lot of room on the number scale.
This is pretty awful to say about people. And yes, it's a value judgment about the worth of people as well. Actually this whole "fat people are stupider than non-fat people" is a value judgment couched as an empirical "intelligence" study. The entire premise of the original article upon which this thread is founded is one of merit measurement, and I repeat, it's pure eugenics. And utter nonsense.
I never said it was nice, nor that I find this study to be anything more than an amusing read. To be frank, nothing that I stated, really has anything to do with the source material. It's reality. You can dislike my wording choices all you want, but that doesn't change anything about the fact that these people are either incredibly stupid, incredibly gullible, or at a desperation level never before seen in humans who weren't literally starving. If it waddles like a Dr. Oz shill, and wheezes like a Dr. Oz shill, Dr. Oz (among others) is gonna assume he can sap their wallet, unless they prove otherwise. I'll start giving people the benefit of the doubt again, when they stop feeding a massively lucrative snake oil industry.0 -
I get the impression that some people are reading the obviously cherry picked Telegraph article, and not spending much time reading the actual study, which has loads of links to peer reviewed studies, is quite clear on the findings being less than conclusive, and rather than any weight/BMI judgements, makes very clear the intentions of the study.
Quoted from the study....
"Understanding the specific neural systems that are associated with high body fat will help to explain obesity-related cognitive and behavioral differences and hopefully pave the way to treatment and prevention. Thus, the goal of the current study was to identify the primary neural correlates of adiposity using convergent evidence from multiple structural and functional neuroimaging methods."
They also seem to go to great depth to validate the various findings, and seem willing to admit that their findings are not an absolute answer.
Another quote.....
"Having established that individual differences in body composition are associated with structural and functional brain changes does not address questions regarding the causes and effects of these changes and their relation to cognition, reward processing, or impulsivity."
Having spent some time reading the study and some of the referenced studies within it, I find it very interesting. It's actually not very conclusive and openly states potential flaws in the study as well as other studies, but it seems to be working towards answers that might impact a great number of people in a positive way. As expected, the media source turns it into simple statements of intelligence being based on obesity level, which is grossly twisting what is stated in the study.
4 -
robertw486 wrote: »I get the impression that some people are reading the obviously cherry picked Telegraph article, and not spending much time reading the actual study, which has loads of links to peer reviewed studies, is quite clear on the findings being less than conclusive, and rather than any weight/BMI judgements, makes very clear the intentions of the study.
Quoted from the study....
"Understanding the specific neural systems that are associated with high body fat will help to explain obesity-related cognitive and behavioral differences and hopefully pave the way to treatment and prevention. Thus, the goal of the current study was to identify the primary neural correlates of adiposity using convergent evidence from multiple structural and functional neuroimaging methods."
They also seem to go to great depth to validate the various findings, and seem willing to admit that their findings are not an absolute answer.
Another quote.....
"Having established that individual differences in body composition are associated with structural and functional brain changes does not address questions regarding the causes and effects of these changes and their relation to cognition, reward processing, or impulsivity."
Having spent some time reading the study and some of the referenced studies within it, I find it very interesting. It's actually not very conclusive and openly states potential flaws in the study as well as other studies, but it seems to be working towards answers that might impact a great number of people in a positive way. As expected, the media source turns it into simple statements of intelligence being based on obesity level, which is grossly twisting what is stated in the study.
That's because information doesn't generate clicks, but butthurt is really good at it.2 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/fat-people-are-less-intelligent-than-those-who-are-overweight/?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/fat-people-are-less-intelligent-than-those-who-are-not-overweigh/?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf30838983
Seriously, now overweight people are less intelligent?
Has anyone found the crap "paper" behind this? I have yet to locate ii. Thank you.
Overweight men and women have less grey and white matter in key areas of the brain, it suggests. They also have greater impulsiveness and "altered reward processing", the study said.
The researchers said that their findings could explain why overweight people make poor diet choices - they do not have the mental capacity to control themselves.
Does this mean I got 35 pounds smarter in the past year, or so? ;-)1 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/fat-people-are-less-intelligent-than-those-who-are-overweight/?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/fat-people-are-less-intelligent-than-those-who-are-not-overweigh/?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf30838983
Seriously, now overweight people are less intelligent?
Has anyone found the crap "paper" behind this? I have yet to locate ii. Thank you.
Overweight men and women have less grey and white matter in key areas of the brain, it suggests. They also have greater impulsiveness and "altered reward processing", the study said.
The researchers said that their findings could explain why overweight people make poor diet choices - they do not have the mental capacity to control themselves.
Does this mean I got 35 pounds smarter in the past year, or so? ;-)
I don't know about that, but I did find an extra couple of...inches hidden below my 113 lbs over the past few years. Wait, what was that about men thinking with the wrong head anyway? I DID get smarter. Weeeeee!!1 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/fat-people-are-less-intelligent-than-those-who-are-overweight/?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/fat-people-are-less-intelligent-than-those-who-are-not-overweigh/?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf30838983
Seriously, now overweight people are less intelligent?
Has anyone found the crap "paper" behind this? I have yet to locate ii. Thank you.
Overweight men and women have less grey and white matter in key areas of the brain, it suggests. They also have greater impulsiveness and "altered reward processing", the study said.
The researchers said that their findings could explain why overweight people make poor diet choices - they do not have the mental capacity to control themselves.
Does this mean I got 35 pounds smarter in the past year, or so? ;-)
Going from a BMI of 35 to 27 did not change my IQ I am sure but may have lead to an uptick in my EQ score perhaps.1 -
This doesn't address a serious problem as well... Most 'low IQ' people, persons? End up with worse jobs, and get less pay. So they don't have time to deal with learning good nutrition or simply buy into the myth that 'healthy food is un affordable', and some have speculated that they use cheap high fat foods as a reward. They are working just as hard or harder doing 40-80 hour weeks often times 2-3 poorly paying jobs. So if you have a less than a High school degree you make avg. 22k, but compared to a PHD 67k on average making 3 times more than people with 'low IQ', but the notion of IQ we are finding out is more static, and people can learn and grow. Science has shown good nutrition and working out will help improve your memory... Just speaking averages if you got 10 people, 3 of them will be lower income, 5 of them will be middle class, 2 'upper income'. So its mostly those 5-7 (middle/upper) people that buy into a lot of the snake oil the other 3 poor people just buy into the 99 cent menu...I'm not saying education level = IQ, but I think there are a lot of factors that people don't have control over, but most people are hoping for the miracle pill. Some people might get offended but I think its just being realistic as others have said. You can spend 30 minutes a day working out with just body weight exercises, get books on tape from the library study hard for 2 years go get a GED, spend another 1-2 years getting free college courses and audiobooks online. Spend 2 more years finish technical college... I don't think that means you now have a 'higher IQ' but you put in a lot of hard work. I think the same thing can be said about losing weight and eating right, it doesn't make you smarter or better than anyone else it just means you were willing to prioritize and put in the hard work....2
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