IIFYM/Reverse Dieting Question - Advanced
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I'll echo that somatypes are basically nonsense. Reverse dieting isn't a scientifically sound topic either. I take issue with your story when you claimed that your calories become too low causing you to gain fat. "Eventually with the high fat intake and large deficit I hit a plateau and started going backwards. I got as high as 22%" This doesn't happen. Why would a steep deficit cause fat gain? There is no scientific or physiological way for the body to gain fat when in a prolonged caloric deficit, especially a steep one. My main guess is that you either were eating more then you think, burning less then you think, or both. How accurately do you track calories? Do you weigh 100% of every you eat on a scale? How often do you cheat, eat out, or eat food not prepared and weighed?7
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UHhhhhhWHAaaTmf wrote: »UHhhhhhWHAaaTmf wrote: »Curious, what kind of resistance training are you doing weekly? How many days? How intense are the workouts? Duration each session? (Not cardio related)
With 6 kids I am just doing t25 at work M-S for 25 min a day. In the beta phase they add in resistance weights and so on. They have a bazillion pushups, situps, squats, lunges, jumping, and so on. Nothing big as I am not lifting right now other than the occasional Saturday.
Your progress is great btw!! Stay focused and consistent like you are and you won't be disappointed.
Have you done a recomp lately with your current bodyfat and weight? (Sry been reading all day and my eyes are seeing multiple lol)
Keep switching up your training method/routine. I would highly recommend more resistance strength training with free weights. You'll definitely build up more muscle, utilize those carbs and fats more efficiently, but appear more tone while doing your high intense movements.
Do you have "performance" needs or focus is mainly how your "physique" appears? (Powerlifter/Bodybuilder) Both require different training methods as well as nutritional needs. (Energy)
I do take into consideration what "somatotype" my clients are, BUT that is not where I distinguish their nutrition plan. I've had many clients who can easily gain as well as lose weight, regardless of their type. The nutrition plans I've had successful clients on would go against all research of body types.
Limb length is a factor when we lift and how your form will be. Nobody lifts the same, yes the cues are similar to most, but starting and end position is different between them. Shorter arms vs long limb arms.(shorter arms appear bigger than longer limb even if muscle gained is the same)
The takeaway, everyone is different which is why it's a guessing game for everyone with how much they consume vs TDEE.
Just have to plug and play for whats best for you. I love "carb cycling" and intermittent fasting to help with fat loss, when my physique appearance is the main focus. Energy will be lower than the norm since in a deficit.
Thank you!! That was really nice! You are a wealth of knowledge!
Yes you are right. I was thinking of adding in some more weights on the weekend for right now. When I am done with t25 I am going to switch back to a 3 days weights and 3 days cardio. By then the 115 degree heat should be down to like 100 and I can run. I like on the video’s they give you 5 videos for 5 weeks rotating them crazy then a whole new set of videos for the next 5 weeks and so on to keep you guessing while moving up in intensity. On the Alpha round I mastered the moves at the end of 4 weeks so it seems to be working well. The beta is still really tough for me at 2 weeks and they added in dumbbells. The Gama ads in more dumbbells and a chin up bar. Usually I do not do video’s but I was tired of the same old thing, needed to switch it up, and I am not waking up at 4am to work out so that I can run or workout in my gym at home. I need to make sure to maintain 7 hours of sleep at least. I started gaining on a deficit because of the lack of sleep, bad macros, and long bad deficit something another poster insisted was not possible, lol.
Yes I am not doing anything performance wise as of yet. I was thinking about getting into a physique competition maybe in the future. I do have a 5k, 6k, and 7k coming up but that won’t be until October/November/December which is why I plan on running when it cools off. I do play shortstop in a competitive softball coed league and I loved that the plyo helped me lay out for a line drive and my speed on base running is amazing. I would really love to do crossfit but my schedule is to crazy so I am where I am at with 6 kids.
I have tried carb cycling and intermittent fasting which I loved! Once I got below a certain body fat% the intermittent fasting wasn’t working as well. I would be so done for the day I felt like I couldn’t move and my workouts suffered. I am currently running IF for about an 14/10 schedule right now so that helps. Perhaps with the increase in carbs I can look into that again. I am sure I wouldn’t bottom out like I did when I was eating straight paleo.
You are a wealth of knowledge, what would you recommend doing calorie wise? Should I keep reverse dieting up to my maintenance, reverse back down to 1400, or just start back out at 1400 and go back up. I know anything I do I will eventually get to my number and the look/performance I am looking for but I sure would like to get to it faster rather than later so I don’t want to choose wrong. I am in it for the long haul anyway.
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I'll echo that somatypes are basically nonsense. Reverse dieting isn't a scientifically sound topic either. I take issue with your story when you claimed that your calories become too low causing you to gain fat. "Eventually with the high fat intake and large deficit I hit a plateau and started going backwards. I got as high as 22%" This doesn't happen. Why would a steep deficit cause fat gain? There is no scientific or physiological way for the body to gain fat when in a prolonged caloric deficit, especially a steep one. My main guess is that you either were eating more then you think, burning less then you think, or both. How accurately do you track calories? Do you weigh 100% of every you eat on a scale? How often do you cheat, eat out, or eat food not prepared and weighed?
You can easily gain on a deficit if you are not careful by not getting enough sleep, being at a deficit for a long period of time, eating the wrong macro’s for your body type/activity type/activity level, and doing the same exercises over and over. Also stress is a huge reason for a weight gain on a deficit. Or how about thyroid issues.
I won’t re-peat sometime that you can easily google and yes I was tracking everything with a scale for goodness sakes. My macros were so upside down I had no energy and was gaining fat fast. Unfortunately for girls we go into an emergency fat storage mode and start storing fat in our butts, hips, and stomach generally. Guys, generally, get off easy and their fat storage mode just hits their tummy… not fair!
As soon as I switched my macros and started reverse dieting, which is a thing BTW and a lot of body builders or physique models use it after a show, you can see from the image above the weight came right off faster than before.
Thank you for this discussion. This post was not a discussion on reverse dieting which I know works or macros which I also know works and are very important or weight gain on a deficit which does happen. This was a discussion about where I should go next for my goals. If you have any opinions on that great, if not I really don’t feeling like explaining myself anymore. If you don't know about these things then please google them.
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2016 and still believes in somatotypes lol just lol, reverse dieting is also a waste of time since you're not near to contest lean.5
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This is entirely false. You cannot gain fat in a deficit over the long run. It simply isn't possible. Even with very poor sleep, regardless of macros, regardless of activity level, regardless of stress. There is NO SUCH THING as "emergency fat storage mode". You have so many beliefs that do not coincide with actual human physiology that it's hard to offer any actual help. My best advice would be to start gaining a better understanding of how the body actually works. Ponder this, if you are eating less calories per day then you are burning (a deficit) what energy is the body using to function? What energy is it using to create stored fat as you claim is possible. A lb of fat requires roughly 3500 surplus calories. If you are in a deficit then where does the energy needed for the fat come from?I'll echo that somatypes are basically nonsense. Reverse dieting isn't a scientifically sound topic either. I take issue with your story when you claimed that your calories become too low causing you to gain fat. "Eventually with the high fat intake and large deficit I hit a plateau and started going backwards. I got as high as 22%" This doesn't happen. Why would a steep deficit cause fat gain? There is no scientific or physiological way for the body to gain fat when in a prolonged caloric deficit, especially a steep one. My main guess is that you either were eating more then you think, burning less then you think, or both. How accurately do you track calories? Do you weigh 100% of every you eat on a scale? How often do you cheat, eat out, or eat food not prepared and weighed?
You can easily gain on a deficit if you are not careful by not getting enough sleep, being at a deficit for a long period of time, eating the wrong macro’s for your body type/activity type/activity level, and doing the same exercises over and over. Also stress is a huge reason for a weight gain on a deficit. Or how about thyroid issues.
I won’t re-peat sometime that you can easily google and yes I was tracking everything with a scale for goodness sakes. My macros were so upside down I had no energy and was gaining fat fast. Unfortunately for girls we go into an emergency fat storage mode and start storing fat in our butts, hips, and stomach generally. Guys, generally, get off easy and their fat storage mode just hits their tummy… not fair!
As soon as I switched my macros and started reverse dieting, which is a thing BTW and a lot of body builders or physique models use it after a show, you can see from the image above the weight came right off faster than before.
Thank you for this discussion. This post was not a discussion on reverse dieting which I know works or macros which I also know works and are very important or weight gain on a deficit which does happen. This was a discussion about where I should go next for my goals. If you have any opinions on that great, if not I really don’t feeling like explaining myself anymore. If you don't know about these things then please google them.
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I'll echo that somatypes are basically nonsense. Reverse dieting isn't a scientifically sound topic either. I take issue with your story when you claimed that your calories become too low causing you to gain fat. "Eventually with the high fat intake and large deficit I hit a plateau and started going backwards. I got as high as 22%" This doesn't happen. Why would a steep deficit cause fat gain? There is no scientific or physiological way for the body to gain fat when in a prolonged caloric deficit, especially a steep one. My main guess is that you either were eating more then you think, burning less then you think, or both. How accurately do you track calories? Do you weigh 100% of every you eat on a scale? How often do you cheat, eat out, or eat food not prepared and weighed?
You can easily gain on a deficit if you are not careful by not getting enough sleep, being at a deficit for a long period of time, eating the wrong macro’s for your body type/activity type/activity level, and doing the same exercises over and over. Also stress is a huge reason for a weight gain on a deficit. Or how about thyroid issues.
I won’t re-peat sometime that you can easily google and yes I was tracking everything with a scale for goodness sakes. My macros were so upside down I had no energy and was gaining fat fast. Unfortunately for girls we go into an emergency fat storage mode and start storing fat in our butts, hips, and stomach generally. Guys, generally, get off easy and their fat storage mode just hits their tummy… not fair!
As soon as I switched my macros and started reverse dieting, which is a thing BTW and a lot of body builders or physique models use it after a show, you can see from the image above the weight came right off faster than before.
Thank you for this discussion. This post was not a discussion on reverse dieting which I know works or macros which I also know works and are very important or weight gain on a deficit which does happen. This was a discussion about where I should go next for my goals. If you have any opinions on that great, if not I really don’t feeling like explaining myself anymore. If you don't know about these things then please google them.
Where are you getting this info? There is such a thing as increased water retention due to steep dieting, stress, etc. But gaining fat? No. It does not happen like that.
You are conflating fat loss and weight loss and fat gain and weight gain.5 -
msalicia116 wrote: »pbandalyssa wrote: »I understand what you are saying but they are not a myth. You have people who genetically gain muscle fast, you have people that genetically gain fat fast. All you did was add a name to those people. That doesn’t make it false just because it now has a name, lol. Without a name those people still exist right? Then the macros are pretty common place. If someone gains fat fast its good to start by lowering the carbs and up the protein, again common knowledge.
Like I said knowing your body is important and this give you a great basis and has for me then you tweak it to fit all the other variables in life which there are a ton!
All this talk is great but I started out asking a question and if people want to argue with me about IIFYM and how I arrived at my perfect macro ratio then I will just move on and off of this board. It really isn’t worth my time especially since I know my macros are perfect now for my body type and what I want to achieve.
I'm confused. You started a topic to ask the forum a question. But all you're doing is getting super defensive and spouting about how you know everything and you're a macro expert? Why even ask????
You're clearly not going to convince anyone about these body types not being a myth. Lol.
She's not acting like a know it all, she clearly outlined everything she has done and is doing because she knew everyone would be asking her these questions anyway. She added a point of reference as to why she made her macros what they are, and the question was lost due to the debate on whether that small point was a myth or not.
I think the take away here is that she found macros that fit her. Awesome. Now she wants to know what she should do to reach her BF % goal. That is the point of this post. She thought of 4 options, and was inquiring if any of those were the best method, unless someone had a better idea.
So, anyone? No need to make condescending remarks, it makes you sound like a child.
Thank you! I keep getting blasted on here and was just looking for feedback on the calorie intake and where I should go from here. Kinda feeling beat up.
You're welcome. And you have done very well for yourself, congrats. I know I'll have similar questions as you when I get to your level of fitness and bf %, so I'm just as interested in the feedback.
On another note, definitely check into what vismal is saying. He is making very valid points about gaining on a deficit, and physiology. I think having a very clear understanding of what he is talking about will be the answer you're looking for in this next phase. Have questions about the science, just ask. They are an invaluable source of information.1 -
This is entirely false. You cannot gain fat in a deficit over the long run. It simply isn't possible. Even with very poor sleep, regardless of macros, regardless of activity level, regardless of stress. There is NO SUCH THING as "emergency fat storage mode". You have so many beliefs that do not coincide with actual human physiology that it's hard to offer any actual help. My best advice would be to start gaining a better understanding of how the body actually works. Ponder this, if you are eating less calories per day then you are burning (a deficit) what energy is the body using to function? What energy is it using to create stored fat as you claim is possible. A lb of fat requires roughly 3500 surplus calories. If you are in a deficit then where does the energy needed for the fat come from?I'll echo that somatypes are basically nonsense. Reverse dieting isn't a scientifically sound topic either. I take issue with your story when you claimed that your calories become too low causing you to gain fat. "Eventually with the high fat intake and large deficit I hit a plateau and started going backwards. I got as high as 22%" This doesn't happen. Why would a steep deficit cause fat gain? There is no scientific or physiological way for the body to gain fat when in a prolonged caloric deficit, especially a steep one. My main guess is that you either were eating more then you think, burning less then you think, or both. How accurately do you track calories? Do you weigh 100% of every you eat on a scale? How often do you cheat, eat out, or eat food not prepared and weighed?
You can easily gain on a deficit if you are not careful by not getting enough sleep, being at a deficit for a long period of time, eating the wrong macro’s for your body type/activity type/activity level, and doing the same exercises over and over. Also stress is a huge reason for a weight gain on a deficit. Or how about thyroid issues.
I won’t re-peat sometime that you can easily google and yes I was tracking everything with a scale for goodness sakes. My macros were so upside down I had no energy and was gaining fat fast. Unfortunately for girls we go into an emergency fat storage mode and start storing fat in our butts, hips, and stomach generally. Guys, generally, get off easy and their fat storage mode just hits their tummy… not fair!
As soon as I switched my macros and started reverse dieting, which is a thing BTW and a lot of body builders or physique models use it after a show, you can see from the image above the weight came right off faster than before.
Thank you for this discussion. This post was not a discussion on reverse dieting which I know works or macros which I also know works and are very important or weight gain on a deficit which does happen. This was a discussion about where I should go next for my goals. If you have any opinions on that great, if not I really don’t feeling like explaining myself anymore. If you don't know about these things then please google them.
Uh yes there is its knows by many names. Super Accumulation of Fat or AKA survival mode or AKA the dreaded plateau that you just can't break through, or a metabolic shift, or lowering of your metabolism, or my favorite fat storage mode or starvation mode.
MacLean at the University of Colorado describes this general metabolic behavior: “[When we eat less] metabolic adjustments occur…[which] contribute to a large potential energy imbalance that, when the forcible control of energy intake is relieved…results in an exceptionally high rate of weight regain.”
They did a study on rats. Please see their findings below
"The Eat Less Group weighed the most and had the highest percent body fat. Even though they ate less for ten days, they were significantly heavier than those who ate normally all the way through. Eating less led the rats to gain—not lose—body fat."
More articles go on....
"Super Accumulation of Fat
Talk about side effects. Eating less was worse than doing nothing.
Why?
After our metabolism is starved, its number one priority is restoring all the body fat it lost and then protecting us from starving in the future. Guess how it does that? By storing additional body fat. Researchers call this “fat super accumulation.” From researcher E.A. Young at the University of Texas: “These and other studies…strongly suggest that fat super accumulation…after energy restriction is a major factor contributing to relapsing obesity, so often observed in humans.”"
There is another reason: eating less slowed the metabolism. Put the same quantity and quality of food and exercise into a slowed-down fat metabolism system, and out comes more body fat."
This is why most individuals on a hard deficit see a plateau. Some not only plateau but they start gaining fat. Which was me.
Below is a graph by Harvard on their test studies and what they concluded. But hey you go on and argue with Harvard. Have fun!
Now I can keep throwing studies and test from Universities and Doctors and how you can change your metabolism and speed it up or lower it but you will keep arguing what is proven as fact is not so I am done.
Please note I thought like you did until I started getting older and couldn't do a 90 day shred so fast and stalled out and then started to gain. I would think I was nuts too. Of course this was after 3 c-sections. Perhaps once you get older this will happen to you as well and you will understand how our body isn't a machine. You can't put in one equation and expect it to do exactly what you want. You give it less, it adapts just like it does when you train the same every day it adapts.
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This is entirely false. You cannot gain fat in a deficit over the long run. It simply isn't possible. Even with very poor sleep, regardless of macros, regardless of activity level, regardless of stress. There is NO SUCH THING as "emergency fat storage mode". You have so many beliefs that do not coincide with actual human physiology that it's hard to offer any actual help. My best advice would be to start gaining a better understanding of how the body actually works. Ponder this, if you are eating less calories per day then you are burning (a deficit) what energy is the body using to function? What energy is it using to create stored fat as you claim is possible. A lb of fat requires roughly 3500 surplus calories. If you are in a deficit then where does the energy needed for the fat come from?I'll echo that somatypes are basically nonsense. Reverse dieting isn't a scientifically sound topic either. I take issue with your story when you claimed that your calories become too low causing you to gain fat. "Eventually with the high fat intake and large deficit I hit a plateau and started going backwards. I got as high as 22%" This doesn't happen. Why would a steep deficit cause fat gain? There is no scientific or physiological way for the body to gain fat when in a prolonged caloric deficit, especially a steep one. My main guess is that you either were eating more then you think, burning less then you think, or both. How accurately do you track calories? Do you weigh 100% of every you eat on a scale? How often do you cheat, eat out, or eat food not prepared and weighed?
You can easily gain on a deficit if you are not careful by not getting enough sleep, being at a deficit for a long period of time, eating the wrong macro’s for your body type/activity type/activity level, and doing the same exercises over and over. Also stress is a huge reason for a weight gain on a deficit. Or how about thyroid issues.
I won’t re-peat sometime that you can easily google and yes I was tracking everything with a scale for goodness sakes. My macros were so upside down I had no energy and was gaining fat fast. Unfortunately for girls we go into an emergency fat storage mode and start storing fat in our butts, hips, and stomach generally. Guys, generally, get off easy and their fat storage mode just hits their tummy… not fair!
As soon as I switched my macros and started reverse dieting, which is a thing BTW and a lot of body builders or physique models use it after a show, you can see from the image above the weight came right off faster than before.
Thank you for this discussion. This post was not a discussion on reverse dieting which I know works or macros which I also know works and are very important or weight gain on a deficit which does happen. This was a discussion about where I should go next for my goals. If you have any opinions on that great, if not I really don’t feeling like explaining myself anymore. If you don't know about these things then please google them.
Uh yes there is its knows by many names. Super Accumulation of Fat or AKA survival mode or AKA the dreaded plateau that you just can't break through, or a metabolic shift, or lowering of your metabolism, or my favorite fat storage mode or starvation mode.
MacLean at the University of Colorado describes this general metabolic behavior: “[When we eat less] metabolic adjustments occur…[which] contribute to a large potential energy imbalance that, when the forcible control of energy intake is relieved…results in an exceptionally high rate of weight regain.”
They did a study on rats. Please see their findings below
"The Eat Less Group weighed the most and had the highest percent body fat. Even though they ate less for ten days, they were significantly heavier than those who ate normally all the way through. Eating less led the rats to gain—not lose—body fat."
More articles go on....
"Super Accumulation of Fat
Talk about side effects. Eating less was worse than doing nothing.
Why?
After our metabolism is starved, its number one priority is restoring all the body fat it lost and then protecting us from starving in the future. Guess how it does that? By storing additional body fat. Researchers call this “fat super accumulation.” From researcher E.A. Young at the University of Texas: “These and other studies…strongly suggest that fat super accumulation…after energy restriction is a major factor contributing to relapsing obesity, so often observed in humans.”"
There is another reason: eating less slowed the metabolism. Put the same quantity and quality of food and exercise into a slowed-down fat metabolism system, and out comes more body fat."
This is why most individuals on a hard deficit see a plateau. Some not only plateau but they start gaining fat. Which was me.
Below is a graph by Harvard on their test studies and what they concluded. But hey you go on and argue with Harvard. Have fun!
Now I can keep throwing studies and test from Universities and Doctors and how you can change your metabolism and speed it up or lower it but you will keep arguing what is proven as fact is not so I am done.
Please note I thought like you did until I started getting older and couldn't do a 90 day shred so fast and stalled out and then started to gain. I would think I was nuts too. Of course this was after 3 c-sections. Perhaps once you get older this will happen to you as well and you will understand how our body isn't a machine. You can't put in one equation and expect it to do exactly what you want. You give it less, it adapts just like it does when you train the same every day it adapts.
You have wildly misinterpreted the results and even contradicted yourself in your own post.
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None of that explains gaining fat in a calorie deficit. I've addressed it below in bold. Metabolic adaptations occur with dieting. No one questions that. What does not happen is a mythical mode of survival in which the body runs on unicorn tears and good intentions and somehow stores fat despite any surplus energy being available to do so. Our bodies require fuel to run. Our bodies require surplus fuel to store fat. In all that you posted you failed to answer my question. Someone in a deficit creates fat with what energy?Uh yes there is its knows by many names. Super Accumulation of Fat BS or AKA survival mode NOT REAL or AKA the dreaded plateau that you just can't break through DOESN'T HAPPEN, or a metabolic shift GREATLY OVERSTATED. 15% AT most, or lowering of your metabolism 15% at most, or my favorite fat storage mode NOT REAL or starvation mode FAKE.
MacLean at the University of Colorado describes this general metabolic behavior: “[When we eat less] metabolic adjustments occur…[which] contribute to a large potential energy imbalance that, when the forcible control of energy intake is relieved…results in an exceptionally high rate of weight regain.” This proves nothing. People diet, they have a metabolic adaptation, they eat too much, they get fat again. This doesn't explain gaining fat in a calorie deficit.
They did a study on rats. Please see their findings below
"The Eat Less Group weighed the most and had the highest percent body fat. Even though they ate less for ten days, they were significantly heavier than those who ate normally all the way through. Eating less led the rats to gain—not lose—body fat." Rats aren't people, enough said.
More articles go on....
"Super Accumulation of Fat
Talk about side effects. Eating less was worse than doing nothing.
Why?
After our metabolism is starved, its number one priority is restoring all the body fat it lost and then protecting us from starving in the future No it isn't. Guess how it does that? By storing additional body fat Where does the energy needed for this fat come from if you are still in a calorie defict?. Researchers call this “fat super accumulation.” From researcher E.A. Young at the University of Texas: “These and other studies…strongly suggest that fat super accumulation…after energy restriction AFTER ENERGY RESTRICTION, NOT DURING! You can gain fat AFTER the deficit but not during it is a major factor contributing to relapsing obesity Relapse meaning after the diet, so often observed in humans.”"
There is another reason: eating less slowed the metabolism By 15% at most. Put the same quantity and quality of food and exercise into a slowed-down fat metabolism system, and out comes more body fat." This assumes the slowing is permanent which it is not.
This is why most individuals on a hard deficit see a plateau. Some not only plateau but they start gaining fat. Which was me. Wrong. Most individuals on a hard deficit plateau because of MASSIVE water retention. People who are actually starving are skin and bones. People who starve to death are not fat, they are basically wasted away.
Below is a graph by Harvard on their test studies and what they concluded. But hey you go on and argue with Harvard. Have fun!
Now I can keep throwing studies and test from Universities and Doctors and how you can change your metabolism and speed it up or lower it but you will keep arguing what is proven as fact is not so I am done. Not a single one of those studies proves or even suggests you can gain fat in a deficit, probably because it's not physiologically possible.
Please note I thought like you did until I started getting older and couldn't do a 90 day shred so fast and stalled out and then started to gain. I would think I was nuts too. Of course this was after 3 c-sections. Perhaps once you get older this will happen to you as well and you will understand how our body isn't a machine. You can't put in one equation and expect it to do exactly what you want. You give it less, it adapts just like it does when you train the same every day it adapts. Or you aren't as good at tracking calories in vs out as you think. I'm going with that rather than the laws of thermodynamics that govern the entire universe being flawed.
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This is entirely false. You cannot gain fat in a deficit over the long run. It simply isn't possible. Even with very poor sleep, regardless of macros, regardless of activity level, regardless of stress. There is NO SUCH THING as "emergency fat storage mode". You have so many beliefs that do not coincide with actual human physiology that it's hard to offer any actual help. My best advice would be to start gaining a better understanding of how the body actually works. Ponder this, if you are eating less calories per day then you are burning (a deficit) what energy is the body using to function? What energy is it using to create stored fat as you claim is possible. A lb of fat requires roughly 3500 surplus calories. If you are in a deficit then where does the energy needed for the fat come from?I'll echo that somatypes are basically nonsense. Reverse dieting isn't a scientifically sound topic either. I take issue with your story when you claimed that your calories become too low causing you to gain fat. "Eventually with the high fat intake and large deficit I hit a plateau and started going backwards. I got as high as 22%" This doesn't happen. Why would a steep deficit cause fat gain? There is no scientific or physiological way for the body to gain fat when in a prolonged caloric deficit, especially a steep one. My main guess is that you either were eating more then you think, burning less then you think, or both. How accurately do you track calories? Do you weigh 100% of every you eat on a scale? How often do you cheat, eat out, or eat food not prepared and weighed?
You can easily gain on a deficit if you are not careful by not getting enough sleep, being at a deficit for a long period of time, eating the wrong macro’s for your body type/activity type/activity level, and doing the same exercises over and over. Also stress is a huge reason for a weight gain on a deficit. Or how about thyroid issues.
I won’t re-peat sometime that you can easily google and yes I was tracking everything with a scale for goodness sakes. My macros were so upside down I had no energy and was gaining fat fast. Unfortunately for girls we go into an emergency fat storage mode and start storing fat in our butts, hips, and stomach generally. Guys, generally, get off easy and their fat storage mode just hits their tummy… not fair!
As soon as I switched my macros and started reverse dieting, which is a thing BTW and a lot of body builders or physique models use it after a show, you can see from the image above the weight came right off faster than before.
Thank you for this discussion. This post was not a discussion on reverse dieting which I know works or macros which I also know works and are very important or weight gain on a deficit which does happen. This was a discussion about where I should go next for my goals. If you have any opinions on that great, if not I really don’t feeling like explaining myself anymore. If you don't know about these things then please google them.
Uh yes there is its knows by many names. Super Accumulation of Fat or AKA survival mode or AKA the dreaded plateau that you just can't break through, or a metabolic shift, or lowering of your metabolism, or my favorite fat storage mode or starvation mode.
MacLean at the University of Colorado describes this general metabolic behavior: “[When we eat less] metabolic adjustments occur…[which] contribute to a large potential energy imbalance that, when the forcible control of energy intake is relieved…results in an exceptionally high rate of weight regain.”
They did a study on rats. Please see their findings below
"The Eat Less Group weighed the most and had the highest percent body fat. Even though they ate less for ten days, they were significantly heavier than those who ate normally all the way through. Eating less led the rats to gain—not lose—body fat."
More articles go on....
"Super Accumulation of Fat
Talk about side effects. Eating less was worse than doing nothing.
Why?
After our metabolism is starved, its number one priority is restoring all the body fat it lost and then protecting us from starving in the future. Guess how it does that? By storing additional body fat. Researchers call this “fat super accumulation.” From researcher E.A. Young at the University of Texas: “These and other studies…strongly suggest that fat super accumulation…after energy restriction is a major factor contributing to relapsing obesity, so often observed in humans.”"
There is another reason: eating less slowed the metabolism. Put the same quantity and quality of food and exercise into a slowed-down fat metabolism system, and out comes more body fat."
This is why most individuals on a hard deficit see a plateau. Some not only plateau but they start gaining fat. Which was me.
Below is a graph by Harvard on their test studies and what they concluded. But hey you go on and argue with Harvard. Have fun!
Now I can keep throwing studies and test from Universities and Doctors and how you can change your metabolism and speed it up or lower it but you will keep arguing what is proven as fact is not so I am done.
Please note I thought like you did until I started getting older and couldn't do a 90 day shred so fast and stalled out and then started to gain. I would think I was nuts too. Of course this was after 3 c-sections. Perhaps once you get older this will happen to you as well and you will understand how our body isn't a machine. You can't put in one equation and expect it to do exactly what you want. You give it less, it adapts just like it does when you train the same every day it adapts.
Wait - unless I am totally misreading all of this, what is actually being described is gaining body fat after being on a restrictive diet and then going back to normal eating, they aren't describing gaining fat in a deficit. That makes sense, you gain weight when you increase your calorie intake.
Or maybe that's just too simple?8 -
This is entirely false. You cannot gain fat in a deficit over the long run. It simply isn't possible. Even with very poor sleep, regardless of macros, regardless of activity level, regardless of stress. There is NO SUCH THING as "emergency fat storage mode". You have so many beliefs that do not coincide with actual human physiology that it's hard to offer any actual help. My best advice would be to start gaining a better understanding of how the body actually works. Ponder this, if you are eating less calories per day then you are burning (a deficit) what energy is the body using to function? What energy is it using to create stored fat as you claim is possible. A lb of fat requires roughly 3500 surplus calories. If you are in a deficit then where does the energy needed for the fat come from?I'll echo that somatypes are basically nonsense. Reverse dieting isn't a scientifically sound topic either. I take issue with your story when you claimed that your calories become too low causing you to gain fat. "Eventually with the high fat intake and large deficit I hit a plateau and started going backwards. I got as high as 22%" This doesn't happen. Why would a steep deficit cause fat gain? There is no scientific or physiological way for the body to gain fat when in a prolonged caloric deficit, especially a steep one. My main guess is that you either were eating more then you think, burning less then you think, or both. How accurately do you track calories? Do you weigh 100% of every you eat on a scale? How often do you cheat, eat out, or eat food not prepared and weighed?
You can easily gain on a deficit if you are not careful by not getting enough sleep, being at a deficit for a long period of time, eating the wrong macro’s for your body type/activity type/activity level, and doing the same exercises over and over. Also stress is a huge reason for a weight gain on a deficit. Or how about thyroid issues.
I won’t re-peat sometime that you can easily google and yes I was tracking everything with a scale for goodness sakes. My macros were so upside down I had no energy and was gaining fat fast. Unfortunately for girls we go into an emergency fat storage mode and start storing fat in our butts, hips, and stomach generally. Guys, generally, get off easy and their fat storage mode just hits their tummy… not fair!
As soon as I switched my macros and started reverse dieting, which is a thing BTW and a lot of body builders or physique models use it after a show, you can see from the image above the weight came right off faster than before.
Thank you for this discussion. This post was not a discussion on reverse dieting which I know works or macros which I also know works and are very important or weight gain on a deficit which does happen. This was a discussion about where I should go next for my goals. If you have any opinions on that great, if not I really don’t feeling like explaining myself anymore. If you don't know about these things then please google them.
Uh yes there is its knows by many names. Super Accumulation of Fat or AKA survival mode or AKA the dreaded plateau that you just can't break through, or a metabolic shift, or lowering of your metabolism, or my favorite fat storage mode or starvation mode.
MacLean at the University of Colorado describes this general metabolic behavior: “[When we eat less] metabolic adjustments occur…[which] contribute to a large potential energy imbalance that, when the forcible control of energy intake is relieved…results in an exceptionally high rate of weight regain.”
They did a study on rats. Please see their findings below
"The Eat Less Group weighed the most and had the highest percent body fat. Even though they ate less for ten days, they were significantly heavier than those who ate normally all the way through. Eating less led the rats to gain—not lose—body fat."
More articles go on....
"Super Accumulation of Fat
Talk about side effects. Eating less was worse than doing nothing.
Why?
After our metabolism is starved, its number one priority is restoring all the body fat it lost and then protecting us from starving in the future. Guess how it does that? By storing additional body fat. Researchers call this “fat super accumulation.” From researcher E.A. Young at the University of Texas: “These and other studies…strongly suggest that fat super accumulation…after energy restriction is a major factor contributing to relapsing obesity, so often observed in humans.”"
There is another reason: eating less slowed the metabolism. Put the same quantity and quality of food and exercise into a slowed-down fat metabolism system, and out comes more body fat."
This is why most individuals on a hard deficit see a plateau. Some not only plateau but they start gaining fat. Which was me.
Below is a graph by Harvard on their test studies and what they concluded. But hey you go on and argue with Harvard. Have fun!
Now I can keep throwing studies and test from Universities and Doctors and how you can change your metabolism and speed it up or lower it but you will keep arguing what is proven as fact is not so I am done.
Please note I thought like you did until I started getting older and couldn't do a 90 day shred so fast and stalled out and then started to gain. I would think I was nuts too. Of course this was after 3 c-sections. Perhaps once you get older this will happen to you as well and you will understand how our body isn't a machine. You can't put in one equation and expect it to do exactly what you want. You give it less, it adapts just like it does when you train the same every day it adapts.
Wait - unless I am totally misreading all of this, what is actually being described is gaining body fat after being on a restrictive diet and then going back to normal eating, they aren't describing gaining fat in a deficit. That makes sense, you gain weight when you increase your calorie intake.
Or maybe that's just too simple?
No, you read it correctly. None of it explains fat gain while in a deficit. It can't because it's impossible.7 -
None of that explains gaining fat in a calorie deficit. I've addressed it below in bold. Metabolic adaptations occur with dieting. No one questions that. What does not happen is a mythical mode of survival in which the body runs on unicorn tears and good intentions and somehow stores fat despite any surplus energy being available to do so. Our bodies require fuel to run. Our bodies require surplus fuel to store fat. In all that you posted you failed to answer my question. Someone in a deficit creates fat with what energy?Uh yes there is its knows by many names. Super Accumulation of Fat BS or AKA survival mode NOT REAL or AKA the dreaded plateau that you just can't break through DOESN'T HAPPEN, or a metabolic shift GREATLY OVERSTATED. 15% AT most, or lowering of your metabolism 15% at most, or my favorite fat storage mode NOT REAL or starvation mode FAKE.
MacLean at the University of Colorado describes this general metabolic behavior: “[When we eat less] metabolic adjustments occur…[which] contribute to a large potential energy imbalance that, when the forcible control of energy intake is relieved…results in an exceptionally high rate of weight regain.” This proves nothing. People diet, they have a metabolic adaptation, they eat too much, they get fat again. This doesn't explain gaining fat in a calorie deficit.
They did a study on rats. Please see their findings below
"The Eat Less Group weighed the most and had the highest percent body fat. Even though they ate less for ten days, they were significantly heavier than those who ate normally all the way through. Eating less led the rats to gain—not lose—body fat." Rats aren't people, enough said.
More articles go on....
"Super Accumulation of Fat
Talk about side effects. Eating less was worse than doing nothing.
Why?
After our metabolism is starved, its number one priority is restoring all the body fat it lost and then protecting us from starving in the future No it isn't. Guess how it does that? By storing additional body fat Where does the energy needed for this fat come from if you are still in a calorie defict?. Researchers call this “fat super accumulation.” From researcher E.A. Young at the University of Texas: “These and other studies…strongly suggest that fat super accumulation…after energy restriction AFTER ENERGY RESTRICTION, NOT DURING! You can gain fat AFTER the deficit but not during it is a major factor contributing to relapsing obesity Relapse meaning after the diet, so often observed in humans.”"
There is another reason: eating less slowed the metabolism By 15% at most. Put the same quantity and quality of food and exercise into a slowed-down fat metabolism system, and out comes more body fat." This assumes the slowing is permanent which it is not.
This is why most individuals on a hard deficit see a plateau. Some not only plateau but they start gaining fat. Which was me. Wrong. Most individuals on a hard deficit plateau because of MASSIVE water retention. People who are actually starving are skin and bones. People who starve to death are not fat, they are basically wasted away.
Below is a graph by Harvard on their test studies and what they concluded. But hey you go on and argue with Harvard. Have fun!
Now I can keep throwing studies and test from Universities and Doctors and how you can change your metabolism and speed it up or lower it but you will keep arguing what is proven as fact is not so I am done. Not a single one of those studies proves or even suggests you can gain fat in a deficit, probably because it's not physiologically possible.
Please note I thought like you did until I started getting older and couldn't do a 90 day shred so fast and stalled out and then started to gain. I would think I was nuts too. Of course this was after 3 c-sections. Perhaps once you get older this will happen to you as well and you will understand how our body isn't a machine. You can't put in one equation and expect it to do exactly what you want. You give it less, it adapts just like it does when you train the same every day it adapts. Or you aren't as good at tracking calories in vs out as you think. I'm going with that rather than the laws of thermodynamics that govern the entire universe being flawed.
Yeah you guys are off your rocker. I'm talking to my friend who's a nutritionalist and certified personal trainer and she's laughing at all of you guys right now with what you wrote..
1 -
None of that explains gaining fat in a calorie deficit. I've addressed it below in bold. Metabolic adaptations occur with dieting. No one questions that. What does not happen is a mythical mode of survival in which the body runs on unicorn tears and good intentions and somehow stores fat despite any surplus energy being available to do so. Our bodies require fuel to run. Our bodies require surplus fuel to store fat. In all that you posted you failed to answer my question. Someone in a deficit creates fat with what energy?Uh yes there is its knows by many names. Super Accumulation of Fat BS or AKA survival mode NOT REAL or AKA the dreaded plateau that you just can't break through DOESN'T HAPPEN, or a metabolic shift GREATLY OVERSTATED. 15% AT most, or lowering of your metabolism 15% at most, or my favorite fat storage mode NOT REAL or starvation mode FAKE.
MacLean at the University of Colorado describes this general metabolic behavior: “[When we eat less] metabolic adjustments occur…[which] contribute to a large potential energy imbalance that, when the forcible control of energy intake is relieved…results in an exceptionally high rate of weight regain.” This proves nothing. People diet, they have a metabolic adaptation, they eat too much, they get fat again. This doesn't explain gaining fat in a calorie deficit.
They did a study on rats. Please see their findings below
"The Eat Less Group weighed the most and had the highest percent body fat. Even though they ate less for ten days, they were significantly heavier than those who ate normally all the way through. Eating less led the rats to gain—not lose—body fat." Rats aren't people, enough said.
More articles go on....
"Super Accumulation of Fat
Talk about side effects. Eating less was worse than doing nothing.
Why?
After our metabolism is starved, its number one priority is restoring all the body fat it lost and then protecting us from starving in the future No it isn't. Guess how it does that? By storing additional body fat Where does the energy needed for this fat come from if you are still in a calorie defict?. Researchers call this “fat super accumulation.” From researcher E.A. Young at the University of Texas: “These and other studies…strongly suggest that fat super accumulation…after energy restriction AFTER ENERGY RESTRICTION, NOT DURING! You can gain fat AFTER the deficit but not during it is a major factor contributing to relapsing obesity Relapse meaning after the diet, so often observed in humans.”"
There is another reason: eating less slowed the metabolism By 15% at most. Put the same quantity and quality of food and exercise into a slowed-down fat metabolism system, and out comes more body fat." This assumes the slowing is permanent which it is not.
This is why most individuals on a hard deficit see a plateau. Some not only plateau but they start gaining fat. Which was me. Wrong. Most individuals on a hard deficit plateau because of MASSIVE water retention. People who are actually starving are skin and bones. People who starve to death are not fat, they are basically wasted away.
Below is a graph by Harvard on their test studies and what they concluded. But hey you go on and argue with Harvard. Have fun!
Now I can keep throwing studies and test from Universities and Doctors and how you can change your metabolism and speed it up or lower it but you will keep arguing what is proven as fact is not so I am done. Not a single one of those studies proves or even suggests you can gain fat in a deficit, probably because it's not physiologically possible.
Please note I thought like you did until I started getting older and couldn't do a 90 day shred so fast and stalled out and then started to gain. I would think I was nuts too. Of course this was after 3 c-sections. Perhaps once you get older this will happen to you as well and you will understand how our body isn't a machine. You can't put in one equation and expect it to do exactly what you want. You give it less, it adapts just like it does when you train the same every day it adapts. Or you aren't as good at tracking calories in vs out as you think. I'm going with that rather than the laws of thermodynamics that govern the entire universe being flawed.
Yeah you guys are off your rocker. I'm talking to my friend who's a nutritionalist and certified personal trainer and she's laughing at all of you guys right now with what you wrote..
well, you and she are in the minority.
You may want to check out this post on starvation mode
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss3 -
Why don't you talk to a registered dietitian instead of a nutritionist (anyone can be a nutritionist with a simple weekend course). They definitely will tell you that you don't gain fat (you might retain fluid though) while in a calorie deficit.
Btw I am a recovered anorexic and when I was really sick I ate 500 calories a day and 2 hours of cardio and I lost weight rapidly and consistently. I definitely didn't gain fat.10 -
None of that explains gaining fat in a calorie deficit. I've addressed it below in bold. Metabolic adaptations occur with dieting. No one questions that. What does not happen is a mythical mode of survival in which the body runs on unicorn tears and good intentions and somehow stores fat despite any surplus energy being available to do so. Our bodies require fuel to run. Our bodies require surplus fuel to store fat. In all that you posted you failed to answer my question. Someone in a deficit creates fat with what energy?Uh yes there is its knows by many names. Super Accumulation of Fat BS or AKA survival mode NOT REAL or AKA the dreaded plateau that you just can't break through DOESN'T HAPPEN, or a metabolic shift GREATLY OVERSTATED. 15% AT most, or lowering of your metabolism 15% at most, or my favorite fat storage mode NOT REAL or starvation mode FAKE.
MacLean at the University of Colorado describes this general metabolic behavior: “[When we eat less] metabolic adjustments occur…[which] contribute to a large potential energy imbalance that, when the forcible control of energy intake is relieved…results in an exceptionally high rate of weight regain.” This proves nothing. People diet, they have a metabolic adaptation, they eat too much, they get fat again. This doesn't explain gaining fat in a calorie deficit.
They did a study on rats. Please see their findings below
"The Eat Less Group weighed the most and had the highest percent body fat. Even though they ate less for ten days, they were significantly heavier than those who ate normally all the way through. Eating less led the rats to gain—not lose—body fat." Rats aren't people, enough said.
More articles go on....
"Super Accumulation of Fat
Talk about side effects. Eating less was worse than doing nothing.
Why?
After our metabolism is starved, its number one priority is restoring all the body fat it lost and then protecting us from starving in the future No it isn't. Guess how it does that? By storing additional body fat Where does the energy needed for this fat come from if you are still in a calorie defict?. Researchers call this “fat super accumulation.” From researcher E.A. Young at the University of Texas: “These and other studies…strongly suggest that fat super accumulation…after energy restriction AFTER ENERGY RESTRICTION, NOT DURING! You can gain fat AFTER the deficit but not during it is a major factor contributing to relapsing obesity Relapse meaning after the diet, so often observed in humans.”"
There is another reason: eating less slowed the metabolism By 15% at most. Put the same quantity and quality of food and exercise into a slowed-down fat metabolism system, and out comes more body fat." This assumes the slowing is permanent which it is not.
This is why most individuals on a hard deficit see a plateau. Some not only plateau but they start gaining fat. Which was me. Wrong. Most individuals on a hard deficit plateau because of MASSIVE water retention. People who are actually starving are skin and bones. People who starve to death are not fat, they are basically wasted away.
Below is a graph by Harvard on their test studies and what they concluded. But hey you go on and argue with Harvard. Have fun!
Now I can keep throwing studies and test from Universities and Doctors and how you can change your metabolism and speed it up or lower it but you will keep arguing what is proven as fact is not so I am done. Not a single one of those studies proves or even suggests you can gain fat in a deficit, probably because it's not physiologically possible.
Please note I thought like you did until I started getting older and couldn't do a 90 day shred so fast and stalled out and then started to gain. I would think I was nuts too. Of course this was after 3 c-sections. Perhaps once you get older this will happen to you as well and you will understand how our body isn't a machine. You can't put in one equation and expect it to do exactly what you want. You give it less, it adapts just like it does when you train the same every day it adapts. Or you aren't as good at tracking calories in vs out as you think. I'm going with that rather than the laws of thermodynamics that govern the entire universe being flawed.
Yeah you guys are off your rocker. I'm talking to my friend who's a nutritionalist and certified personal trainer and she's laughing at all of you guys right now with what you wrote..
Credentials are meaningless not to mention a nutritionist is a far cry from a registered dietician . You're both still wrong. And you still refuse to tell me where the energy for stored fat comes from if in a deficit...5 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Why don't you talk to a registered dietitian instead of a nutritionist (anyone can be a nutritionist with a simple weekend course). They definitely will tell you that you don't gain fat (you might retain fluid though) while in a calorie deficit.
Btw I am a recovered anorexic and when I was really sick I ate 500 calories a day and 2 hours of cardio and I lost weight rapidly and consistently. I definitely didn't gain fat.
Tecnically, in some places, including a couple of provinces in Canada(NS and Quebec), "nutritionist" is interchangable with Dietitian. Registered Nutritionist is in AB.0 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Why don't you talk to a registered dietitian instead of a nutritionist (anyone can be a nutritionist with a simple weekend course). They definitely will tell you that you don't gain fat (you might retain fluid though) while in a calorie deficit.
Btw I am a recovered anorexic and when I was really sick I ate 500 calories a day and 2 hours of cardio and I lost weight rapidly and consistently. I definitely didn't gain fat.
Tecnically, in some places, including a couple of provinces in Canada(NS and Quebec), "nutritionist" is interchangable with Dietitian. Registered Nutritionist is in AB.
I should have specified in America.0 -
None of that explains gaining fat in a calorie deficit. I've addressed it below in bold. Metabolic adaptations occur with dieting. No one questions that. What does not happen is a mythical mode of survival in which the body runs on unicorn tears and good intentions and somehow stores fat despite any surplus energy being available to do so. Our bodies require fuel to run. Our bodies require surplus fuel to store fat. In all that you posted you failed to answer my question. Someone in a deficit creates fat with what energy?Uh yes there is its knows by many names. Super Accumulation of Fat BS or AKA survival mode NOT REAL or AKA the dreaded plateau that you just can't break through DOESN'T HAPPEN, or a metabolic shift GREATLY OVERSTATED. 15% AT most, or lowering of your metabolism 15% at most, or my favorite fat storage mode NOT REAL or starvation mode FAKE.
MacLean at the University of Colorado describes this general metabolic behavior: “[When we eat less] metabolic adjustments occur…[which] contribute to a large potential energy imbalance that, when the forcible control of energy intake is relieved…results in an exceptionally high rate of weight regain.” This proves nothing. People diet, they have a metabolic adaptation, they eat too much, they get fat again. This doesn't explain gaining fat in a calorie deficit.
They did a study on rats. Please see their findings below
"The Eat Less Group weighed the most and had the highest percent body fat. Even though they ate less for ten days, they were significantly heavier than those who ate normally all the way through. Eating less led the rats to gain—not lose—body fat." Rats aren't people, enough said.
More articles go on....
"Super Accumulation of Fat
Talk about side effects. Eating less was worse than doing nothing.
Why?
After our metabolism is starved, its number one priority is restoring all the body fat it lost and then protecting us from starving in the future No it isn't. Guess how it does that? By storing additional body fat Where does the energy needed for this fat come from if you are still in a calorie defict?. Researchers call this “fat super accumulation.” From researcher E.A. Young at the University of Texas: “These and other studies…strongly suggest that fat super accumulation…after energy restriction AFTER ENERGY RESTRICTION, NOT DURING! You can gain fat AFTER the deficit but not during it is a major factor contributing to relapsing obesity Relapse meaning after the diet, so often observed in humans.”"
There is another reason: eating less slowed the metabolism By 15% at most. Put the same quantity and quality of food and exercise into a slowed-down fat metabolism system, and out comes more body fat." This assumes the slowing is permanent which it is not.
This is why most individuals on a hard deficit see a plateau. Some not only plateau but they start gaining fat. Which was me. Wrong. Most individuals on a hard deficit plateau because of MASSIVE water retention. People who are actually starving are skin and bones. People who starve to death are not fat, they are basically wasted away.
Below is a graph by Harvard on their test studies and what they concluded. But hey you go on and argue with Harvard. Have fun!
Now I can keep throwing studies and test from Universities and Doctors and how you can change your metabolism and speed it up or lower it but you will keep arguing what is proven as fact is not so I am done. Not a single one of those studies proves or even suggests you can gain fat in a deficit, probably because it's not physiologically possible.
Please note I thought like you did until I started getting older and couldn't do a 90 day shred so fast and stalled out and then started to gain. I would think I was nuts too. Of course this was after 3 c-sections. Perhaps once you get older this will happen to you as well and you will understand how our body isn't a machine. You can't put in one equation and expect it to do exactly what you want. You give it less, it adapts just like it does when you train the same every day it adapts. Or you aren't as good at tracking calories in vs out as you think. I'm going with that rather than the laws of thermodynamics that govern the entire universe being flawed.
Yeah you guys are off your rocker. I'm talking to my friend who's a nutritionalist and certified personal trainer and she's laughing at all of you guys right now with what you wrote..
Credentials are meaningless not to mention a nutritionist is a far cry from a registered dietician . You're both still wrong. And you still refuse to tell me where the energy for stored fat comes from if in a deficit...None of that explains gaining fat in a calorie deficit. I've addressed it below in bold. Metabolic adaptations occur with dieting. No one questions that. What does not happen is a mythical mode of survival in which the body runs on unicorn tears and good intentions and somehow stores fat despite any surplus energy being available to do so. Our bodies require fuel to run. Our bodies require surplus fuel to store fat. In all that you posted you failed to answer my question. Someone in a deficit creates fat with what energy?Uh yes there is its knows by many names. Super Accumulation of Fat BS or AKA survival mode NOT REAL or AKA the dreaded plateau that you just can't break through DOESN'T HAPPEN, or a metabolic shift GREATLY OVERSTATED. 15% AT most, or lowering of your metabolism 15% at most, or my favorite fat storage mode NOT REAL or starvation mode FAKE.
MacLean at the University of Colorado describes this general metabolic behavior: “[When we eat less] metabolic adjustments occur…[which] contribute to a large potential energy imbalance that, when the forcible control of energy intake is relieved…results in an exceptionally high rate of weight regain.” This proves nothing. People diet, they have a metabolic adaptation, they eat too much, they get fat again. This doesn't explain gaining fat in a calorie deficit.
They did a study on rats. Please see their findings below
"The Eat Less Group weighed the most and had the highest percent body fat. Even though they ate less for ten days, they were significantly heavier than those who ate normally all the way through. Eating less led the rats to gain—not lose—body fat." Rats aren't people, enough said.
More articles go on....
"Super Accumulation of Fat
Talk about side effects. Eating less was worse than doing nothing.
Why?
After our metabolism is starved, its number one priority is restoring all the body fat it lost and then protecting us from starving in the future No it isn't. Guess how it does that? By storing additional body fat Where does the energy needed for this fat come from if you are still in a calorie defict?. Researchers call this “fat super accumulation.” From researcher E.A. Young at the University of Texas: “These and other studies…strongly suggest that fat super accumulation…after energy restriction AFTER ENERGY RESTRICTION, NOT DURING! You can gain fat AFTER the deficit but not during it is a major factor contributing to relapsing obesity Relapse meaning after the diet, so often observed in humans.”"
There is another reason: eating less slowed the metabolism By 15% at most. Put the same quantity and quality of food and exercise into a slowed-down fat metabolism system, and out comes more body fat." This assumes the slowing is permanent which it is not.
This is why most individuals on a hard deficit see a plateau. Some not only plateau but they start gaining fat. Which was me. Wrong. Most individuals on a hard deficit plateau because of MASSIVE water retention. People who are actually starving are skin and bones. People who starve to death are not fat, they are basically wasted away.
Below is a graph by Harvard on their test studies and what they concluded. But hey you go on and argue with Harvard. Have fun!
Now I can keep throwing studies and test from Universities and Doctors and how you can change your metabolism and speed it up or lower it but you will keep arguing what is proven as fact is not so I am done. Not a single one of those studies proves or even suggests you can gain fat in a deficit, probably because it's not physiologically possible.
Please note I thought like you did until I started getting older and couldn't do a 90 day shred so fast and stalled out and then started to gain. I would think I was nuts too. Of course this was after 3 c-sections. Perhaps once you get older this will happen to you as well and you will understand how our body isn't a machine. You can't put in one equation and expect it to do exactly what you want. You give it less, it adapts just like it does when you train the same every day it adapts. Or you aren't as good at tracking calories in vs out as you think. I'm going with that rather than the laws of thermodynamics that govern the entire universe being flawed.
Yeah you guys are off your rocker. I'm talking to my friend who's a nutritionalist and certified personal trainer and she's laughing at all of you guys right now with what you wrote..
Credentials are meaningless not to mention a nutritionist is a far cry from a registered dietician . You're both still wrong. And you still refuse to tell me where the energy for stored fat comes from if in a deficit...
Yes cadential's are totally meaningless! Man you are a real piece of work. can you just get off my thread please? And I already answered that question above but you completely disregarded the graph showing at a steady deficit decreasing each week you could steadily gain fat. If you want to figure out how Harvard came to that conclusion in their study why don't you look at the study yourself is a 60 page document. I cannot waste my time with you or whoever just wants to troll message boards. You guys get a life!1 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Why don't you talk to a registered dietitian instead of a nutritionist (anyone can be a nutritionist with a simple weekend course). They definitely will tell you that you don't gain fat (you might retain fluid though) while in a calorie deficit.
Btw I am a recovered anorexic and when I was really sick I ate 500 calories a day and 2 hours of cardio and I lost weight rapidly and consistently. I definitely didn't gain fat.
Tecnically, in some places, including a couple of provinces in Canada(NS and Quebec), "nutritionist" is interchangable with Dietitian. Registered Nutritionist is in AB.
I should have specified in America.
I was responding to SFL because I knew it applied to her, that's all.0
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