My Job Involves a lot of Drinking and no Sleep
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lemurcat12 wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, but it's not her fault, her employer REQUIRES that she be in a blackout.
Nobody said that other than Packerjohn. Perfectly polite and in the spirit of this site.
Okay, I mistakenly attributed the blackout bit to OP instead of Packerjohn. Others trying to explain OP's post DID insist (contra my post, which said she didn't have to get drink) that she HAD to drink excessively (vs. pretending, as I and many others suggested) and more significantly, when I suggested that she could not drink or drink moderately and questioned the idea that her employer would actually want her too drunk (as that interferes with being fun and responsible, IMO, and is not something I would ever want as an employer, even in an entertainment field like this), many protested and suggested that those of us saying this didn't understand the important and beautiful culture that is involved -- apparently getting disgustingly drunk and acting rude in a foreign country, in violation of the law, from the articles I've found after one was linked.
So if you want to take issue with the notion that she must drink excessively, that that's what's being discussed, it's not me you have an issue with, but those saying that's what the job requires. And I think my post was a perfectly appropriate response to such an irresponsible claim. I'd certainly not want a 19 year old relative told that it was necessary to get irresponsibly drunk, and just part of their culture.
Americans act poorly on vacation too sometimes, but I try not to encourage that and when we get criticized for doing so I certainly wouldn't claim that it was a cultural thing and others did not understand!
And, yeah, we actually do have obnoxious drinking behavior here in the states.
Where in the OP does it mention excessive drinking, breaking the law or behaving irresponsibly?
Part of her job involves alcohol. She wants advice on how to minimise the damage to her weight. She doesn't need to be lectured on what you think is irresponsible or what you think her employer wants from her.8 -
I guess I'm super sensitive when it comes to talking about alcohol.. My husband can't go a day without drinking, doesn't get drunk, but still, it drives me nuts. Where as i have a drink maybe once or twice a year. So yeah, my judgement is somewhat tainted/clouded when it comes to this subject, as I've seen the damage it can do.1
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Well, in any case, your job is only for a month, so I would say just do the best you can not to drink too excessively (which I don't know about you, OP, but too much drinking triggers me to binge eat as well). Some of the advice offered about drinking club soda seems pretty good. Most importantly, be safe, especially drinking around groups of people you don't know. Otherwise, sounds like a fun summer gig!2
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Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm super sensitive when it comes to talking about alcohol.. My husband can't go a day without drinking, doesn't get drunk, but still, it drives me nuts. Where as i have a drink maybe once or twice a year. So yeah, my judgement is somewhat tainted/clouded when it comes to this subject, as I've seen the damage it can do.
May I ask sincerely why it matters if he's not drinking to excess? Not trying to start anything but I'm not "getting it."0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm super sensitive when it comes to talking about alcohol.. My husband can't go a day without drinking, doesn't get drunk, but still, it drives me nuts. Where as i have a drink maybe once or twice a year. So yeah, my judgement is somewhat tainted/clouded when it comes to this subject, as I've seen the damage it can do.
May I ask sincerely why it matters if he's not drinking to excess? Not trying to start anything but I'm not "getting it."
He used to drink in excess, it has destroyed many things in his life. It bothers me because he can not go one whole day without drinking, but tells me he is not an alcoholic/addicted. He watches that clock until it hits 12pm and bam, opens a bottle of beer. A few years ago he'd already had his first drink was by 9am, spirits, beer, red wine whatever, which is when i made him choose between the booze or me, and now he only drinks light beer or the occasional cider. His brother and sister are also alcho's.1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm super sensitive when it comes to talking about alcohol.. My husband can't go a day without drinking, doesn't get drunk, but still, it drives me nuts. Where as i have a drink maybe once or twice a year. So yeah, my judgement is somewhat tainted/clouded when it comes to this subject, as I've seen the damage it can do.
May I ask sincerely why it matters if he's not drinking to excess? Not trying to start anything but I'm not "getting it."
He used to drink in excess, it has destroyed many things in his life. It bothers me because he can not go one whole day without drinking, but tells me he is not an alcoholic/addicted. He watches that clock until it hits 12pm and bam, opens a bottle of beer. A few years ago he'd already had his first drink was by 9am, spirits, beer, red wine whatever, which is when i made him choose between the booze or me, and now he only drinks light beer or the occasional cider. His brother and sister are also alcho's.
Damn. I'm sorry. We have some in my family too. I was lucky to have not gotten the addiction gene. My brother and I both drink, but we both take breaks for this reason.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »He used to drink in excess, it has destroyed many things in his life. It bothers me because he can not go one whole day without drinking, but tells me he is not an alcoholic/addicted. He watches that clock until it hits 12pm and bam, opens a bottle of beer. A few years ago he'd already had his first drink was by 9am, spirits, beer, red wine whatever, which is when i made him choose between the booze or me, and now he only drinks light beer or the occasional cider. His brother and sister are also alcho's.
It's terribly difficult to live with an alcoholic, especially if they can't admit it. It takes a terrible toll on you.
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Christine_72 wrote: »He used to drink in excess, it has destroyed many things in his life. It bothers me because he can not go one whole day without drinking, but tells me he is not an alcoholic/addicted. He watches that clock until it hits 12pm and bam, opens a bottle of beer. A few years ago he'd already had his first drink was by 9am, spirits, beer, red wine whatever, which is when i made him choose between the booze or me, and now he only drinks light beer or the occasional cider. His brother and sister are also alcho's.
It's terribly difficult to live with an alcoholic, especially if they can't admit it. It takes a terrible toll on you.
Yeah, his reply to everything is " I don't get smashed" or "At least i'm not one of those Aholes that goes to the pub while their wife sits at home". He knows both of those scenarios would end up in divorce!
Anyway this thread isn't about my problems , sorry to derail.0 -
fattyclatter wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, but it's not her fault, her employer REQUIRES that she be in a blackout.
Nobody said that other than Packerjohn. Perfectly polite and in the spirit of this site.
Okay, I mistakenly attributed the blackout bit to OP instead of Packerjohn. Others trying to explain OP's post DID insist (contra my post, which said she didn't have to get drink) that she HAD to drink excessively (vs. pretending, as I and many others suggested) and more significantly, when I suggested that she could not drink or drink moderately and questioned the idea that her employer would actually want her too drunk (as that interferes with being fun and responsible, IMO, and is not something I would ever want as an employer, even in an entertainment field like this), many protested and suggested that those of us saying this didn't understand the important and beautiful culture that is involved -- apparently getting disgustingly drunk and acting rude in a foreign country, in violation of the law, from the articles I've found after one was linked.
So if you want to take issue with the notion that she must drink excessively, that that's what's being discussed, it's not me you have an issue with, but those saying that's what the job requires. And I think my post was a perfectly appropriate response to such an irresponsible claim. I'd certainly not want a 19 year old relative told that it was necessary to get irresponsibly drunk, and just part of their culture.
Americans act poorly on vacation too sometimes, but I try not to encourage that and when we get criticized for doing so I certainly wouldn't claim that it was a cultural thing and others did not understand!
And, yeah, we actually do have obnoxious drinking behavior here in the states.
Where in the OP does it mention excessive drinking, breaking the law or behaving irresponsibly?
She claimed to be drinking enough to interfere with weight loss and exercise and sleep. I suggested that she could drink little (pretend to drink if she thought she needed to). (I also did mistakenly attribute something Packerjohn said to OP, as I already admitted, so it's weird you are continuing to argue that point as if I were claiming something I am not.) I also said, which I thought would be reassuring, that I was sure her employer didn't actually want her to get drunk -- if the job was to care for tourists and organize fun, being drunk (as opposed to appearing to be drinking, maybe) would be counterproductive. This was not judgmental of the OP or her "culture" (weird that people seem so insistent in claiming excessive drinking as an important cultural thing), not at all.
Then others -- NOT OP -- jumped in and insisted she did have to drink excessively, that her employer required it (not sure how they know about her specific situation) and linked articles about UK tourists on vacation in Mallorca who were acting poorly, drinking to excess, and breaking the local laws as an example. Upon researching this I mentioned that it didn't say the tour leader had to act that way, and was told that's merely because the article wasn't about that, I wasn't getting that it was necessary for OP to participate in the behavior, and that according to those in the know it was. Thus, THIS is when people (not me) made it about OP being required to drink excessively and, again, that--and, apparently, acting like a kitten in Mallorca and perhaps other foreign countries--was part of her culture, and not to be criticized from the outside (us Americans don't get that part of being British is drunkenly vomiting in Spain or some such).
So others were claiming her job required excess drinking. I doubt it. If it does, I do think the responsible thing to do would be to quit, but like I said originally, I don't think it does.Part of her job involves alcohol. She wants advice on how to minimise the damage to her weight. She doesn't need to be lectured on what you think is irresponsible or what you think her employer wants from her.
Mmm, no, that was part of the question. If you want to avoid gaining weight from excess alcohol and not feeling too bad in the morning to work out, well, drink less, there are ways to do that without people noticing, as I and others mentioned, and there's no requirement to drink to excess, I continue to be certain that that is the case, but if someone has an example of this job actually requiring that (which strikes me as illegal and a liability problem, but maybe UK law really is that different), I guess I'd change my mind (and think the right answer was quit or accept gaining weight).
I think my answer -- don't drink so much it's a problem, fake it if you must, it's easy if everyone else is drinking and those who aren't would probably appreciate you not being actually drunk, and your job would be easier to do too -- is a sensible one and not judgy, but whatever. Seems you and I actually agree that OP doesn't need to drink excessively to do her job, and my judging is aimed at those saying otherwise (and claiming it's a cultural thing).6 -
I'm sorry to anyone I offended with thr term blackout drunk. However in my experience with myself and those around me, if someone is nonfunctional the day after drinking (as the op says she is) the person is usually close to, if not having blackouts regarding part of the previous night.
If someone has experiences different would be interesting in hearing.2 -
Is that you Hillary? go home, you're drunk.
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Packerjohn wrote: »I'm sorry to anyone I offended with thr term blackout drunk. However in my experience with myself and those around me, if someone is nonfunctional the day after drinking (as the op says she is) the person is usually close to, if not having blackouts regarding part of the previous night.
If someone has experiences different would be interesting in hearing.
In an attempt to directly answer this question happily and kindly and with a smile on my face,
Most people who work nights in the entertainment industry sleep all day not because they were hammered the night before but because they went to bed early in the morning and are exhausted from expending a high level of energy both physically and emotionally the night before. Just like you probably don't go straight to bed when you get home, they don't either...people need to unwind after work before they go to bed.2 -
Really? I got Flagged.
I thought some levity that was no way directed at the OP or any posters was innocent enough...some things never change in the forums *sigh*.
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eveandqsmom wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »I'm sorry to anyone I offended with thr term blackout drunk. However in my experience with myself and those around me, if someone is nonfunctional the day after drinking (as the op says she is) the person is usually close to, if not having blackouts regarding part of the previous night.
If someone has experiences different would be interesting in hearing.
In an attempt to directly answer this question happily and kindly and with a smile on my face,
Most people who work nights in the entertainment industry sleep all day not because they were hammered the night before but because they went to bed early in the morning and are exhausted from expending a high level of energy both physically and emotionally the night before. Just like you probably don't go straight to bed when you get home, they don't either...people need to unwind after work before they go to bed.
I understand the challenges of shift work. You don't think the OP's comment that the job involves a lot of drinking has something to do with it?0 -
I don't think it's enough information to go as far as this thread went. Sure...some people in the entertainment industry drink too much, that's true of all industries. I just think that for me, 2 or 3 drinks per night would be enough to cause me to write a post asking for advice (and it's the level that I think from experience is most common), and I don't think that level of drinking is what as been discussed here.
That being said, I apologize if I have come across as hostile. It's not at all what I intended...I just saw a young woman getting jumped on and I thought I could stick up for her a bit, having a history in that business. I know I can come across snarky sometimes.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »I'm sorry to anyone I offended with thr term blackout drunk. However in my experience with myself and those around me, if someone is nonfunctional the day after drinking (as the op says she is) the person is usually close to, if not having blackouts regarding part of the previous night.
If someone has experiences different would be interesting in hearing.
Yes, at that age if I was nonfunctional the next day I'd generally had some periods of blackout.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »devil_in_a_blue_dress wrote: »Honestly, I am unsure why you can't sleep during the day and just make reasonable choices at night. Vodka and like, diet sprite, lime -- that might be 100 per low ball. It's up to you how many you want to consume but I would have 2-3 and be done. I waste 300 calories a day on chocolate.
Most people don't get high quality sleep after being black out drunk. Especially if on a nightly basis
In fact...she never said she HAS to drink at all...YOU started this whole "you don't have to get blackout drunk" thing. YOU and your cohorts have blown this way out of proportion.
The title says her job involves drinking. She said she is tired every and can't exercise. Maybe I'm putting too many dots together but most typical 19 year olds that aren't hung over have enough energy for at least a bit of exercise.
Plus one of our European friends that is familiar with these pub crawls said the expectation was that the hosts drink to what many would consider excess
Note, I'm not a prude. I have been black out drunk in my life and may be again. Not necessarily proud of it but it happened. Not judging the op at all, just offering solution to her situation.
Maybe you did assume too much, because it led to a LOT of people jumping on that bandwagon and being rude and mean because this young woman took a ONE MONTH entertainment job.
And for the record, I know a lot of people who would define "a lot of drinking" as 2 drinks per day...and others who think nothing of 6.
Is it normal for a 19 year old to be too tired to do anything the next day, let alone exercise, after work?
If that's the case, she should probably see a medical professionaleveandqsmom wrote: »When I was a bartender/shooter girl, yes. It was entirely normal for me and my friends to sleep all day as we were going to bed at 5 am. Please stop judging a life you don't understand.
She's also just starting this new shift and it's difficult to get used to...and 19 year old me would send 40 year old me to the doctor because I can't stay up till midnight. It's all relative.
I've worked second and third shift. And I've partied til 5 AM. The alcohol makes a big difference in my ability to function the next day.
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Christine_72 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm super sensitive when it comes to talking about alcohol.. My husband can't go a day without drinking, doesn't get drunk, but still, it drives me nuts. Where as i have a drink maybe once or twice a year. So yeah, my judgement is somewhat tainted/clouded when it comes to this subject, as I've seen the damage it can do.
May I ask sincerely why it matters if he's not drinking to excess? Not trying to start anything but I'm not "getting it."
He used to drink in excess, it has destroyed many things in his life. It bothers me because he can not go one whole day without drinking, but tells me he is not an alcoholic/addicted. He watches that clock until it hits 12pm and bam, opens a bottle of beer. A few years ago he'd already had his first drink was by 9am, spirits, beer, red wine whatever, which is when i made him choose between the booze or me, and now he only drinks light beer or the occasional cider. His brother and sister are also alcho's.
My ex liked to think he wasn't an alcoholic because he didn't drink every day like his brother did. He got blackout drunk every Sunday and usually drank to excess on Saturdays, and often other days during the week. I wonder if the brother thought he wasn't an alcoholic because he didn't do the binge drinking my ex did.
My ex didn't work on Mondays...and sometimes Tuesdays.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm super sensitive when it comes to talking about alcohol.. My husband can't go a day without drinking, doesn't get drunk, but still, it drives me nuts. Where as i have a drink maybe once or twice a year. So yeah, my judgement is somewhat tainted/clouded when it comes to this subject, as I've seen the damage it can do.
May I ask sincerely why it matters if he's not drinking to excess? Not trying to start anything but I'm not "getting it."
He used to drink in excess, it has destroyed many things in his life. It bothers me because he can not go one whole day without drinking, but tells me he is not an alcoholic/addicted. He watches that clock until it hits 12pm and bam, opens a bottle of beer. A few years ago he'd already had his first drink was by 9am, spirits, beer, red wine whatever, which is when i made him choose between the booze or me, and now he only drinks light beer or the occasional cider. His brother and sister are also alcho's.
My ex liked to think he wasn't an alcoholic because he didn't drink every day like his brother did. He got blackout drunk every Sunday and usually drank to excess on Saturdays, and often other days during the week. I wonder if the brother thought he wasn't an alcoholic because he didn't do the binge drinking my ex did.
My ex didn't work on Mondays...and sometimes Tuesdays.
Yeah they're masters of denial and excuses. I couldn't live with him if he got drunk everyday, or even once a week anymore!0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »fattyclatter wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Oh, but it's not her fault, her employer REQUIRES that she be in a blackout.
Nobody said that other than Packerjohn. Perfectly polite and in the spirit of this site.
Okay, I mistakenly attributed the blackout bit to OP instead of Packerjohn. Others trying to explain OP's post DID insist (contra my post, which said she didn't have to get drink) that she HAD to drink excessively (vs. pretending, as I and many others suggested) and more significantly, when I suggested that she could not drink or drink moderately and questioned the idea that her employer would actually want her too drunk (as that interferes with being fun and responsible, IMO, and is not something I would ever want as an employer, even in an entertainment field like this), many protested and suggested that those of us saying this didn't understand the important and beautiful culture that is involved -- apparently getting disgustingly drunk and acting rude in a foreign country, in violation of the law, from the articles I've found after one was linked.
So if you want to take issue with the notion that she must drink excessively, that that's what's being discussed, it's not me you have an issue with, but those saying that's what the job requires. And I think my post was a perfectly appropriate response to such an irresponsible claim. I'd certainly not want a 19 year old relative told that it was necessary to get irresponsibly drunk, and just part of their culture.
Americans act poorly on vacation too sometimes, but I try not to encourage that and when we get criticized for doing so I certainly wouldn't claim that it was a cultural thing and others did not understand!
And, yeah, we actually do have obnoxious drinking behavior here in the states.
Where in the OP does it mention excessive drinking, breaking the law or behaving irresponsibly?
She claimed to be drinking enough to interfere with weight loss and exercise and sleep. I suggested that she could drink little (pretend to drink if she thought she needed to). (I also did mistakenly attribute something Packerjohn said to OP, as I already admitted, so it's weird you are continuing to argue that point as if I were claiming something I am not.) I also said, which I thought would be reassuring, that I was sure her employer didn't actually want her to get drunk -- if the job was to care for tourists and organize fun, being drunk (as opposed to appearing to be drinking, maybe) would be counterproductive. This was not judgmental of the OP or her "culture" (weird that people seem so insistent in claiming excessive drinking as an important cultural thing), not at all.
Then others -- NOT OP -- jumped in and insisted she did have to drink excessively, that her employer required it (not sure how they know about her specific situation) and linked articles about UK tourists on vacation in Mallorca who were acting poorly, drinking to excess, and breaking the local laws as an example. Upon researching this I mentioned that it didn't say the tour leader had to act that way, and was told that's merely because the article wasn't about that, I wasn't getting that it was necessary for OP to participate in the behavior, and that according to those in the know it was. Thus, THIS is when people (not me) made it about OP being required to drink excessively and, again, that--and, apparently, acting like a kitten in Mallorca and perhaps other foreign countries--was part of her culture, and not to be criticized from the outside (us Americans don't get that part of being British is drunkenly vomiting in Spain or some such).
So others were claiming her job required excess drinking. I doubt it. If it does, I do think the responsible thing to do would be to quit, but like I said originally, I don't think it does.Part of her job involves alcohol. She wants advice on how to minimise the damage to her weight. She doesn't need to be lectured on what you think is irresponsible or what you think her employer wants from her.
Mmm, no, that was part of the question. If you want to avoid gaining weight from excess alcohol and not feeling too bad in the morning to work out, well, drink less, there are ways to do that without people noticing, as I and others mentioned, and there's no requirement to drink to excess, I continue to be certain that that is the case, but if someone has an example of this job actually requiring that (which strikes me as illegal and a liability problem, but maybe UK law really is that different), I guess I'd change my mind (and think the right answer was quit or accept gaining weight).
I think my answer -- don't drink so much it's a problem, fake it if you must, it's easy if everyone else is drinking and those who aren't would probably appreciate you not being actually drunk, and your job would be easier to do too -- is a sensible one and not judgy, but whatever. Seems you and I actually agree that OP doesn't need to drink excessively to do her job, and my judging is aimed at those saying otherwise (and claiming it's a cultural thing).
You've continually misrepresented our discussion to make snarky points and it's not appreciated. I specifically said in my very first reply to you "I like the suggestions on how to not drink as much while still seeming to drink, but all this weird disbelief about whether or not she's expected to drink is silly," making it very clear that the part of your post I was specifically disagreeing with is the overconfident belief that you know the requirements of the job despite everyone who has experience with it explaining how you were wrong. You clearly have a misguided idea of the term "culture" as well - the word itself is not enough to imply a positive connotation, but is the exact word one would use to describe a general attitude shared by a group of people with a shared interest/geographical area; for example, party culture in the UK is different than party culture in San Francisco - neither are better or worse inherently, just different. The reason I brought up culture was not to exempt the job from criticism, but to point out how silly it was for you to be so confident that you had any knowledge of what her boss may or may not want, especially in the face of those with experience telling you that you're wrong, because the experience of an American woman who is not 18-21 (and, presumably, has not been in the heavy partying scene for a long time if at all) is very different than the experience of an English 18 year old currently getting a job in a party business that's so European that they barely exist in the US.
One person said she would be expected to drink to excess, you countered that that's "bogus" because you can't imagine it from your cultural standpoint. My only point, this entire time, is that your cultural standpoint was not close enough to the cultural standpoint of the person you're discussing to be able to pass that judgment - and that, barring direct experience with the job and area, one should look to those who have experience, otherwise known as the people saying she's expected to drink (some saying to excess, some just saying she's expected to drink but can get away with faking it). Somehow you've twisted this around to create some amalgam-based strawman you can knock down over and over that thinks blackout drinking is a beautiful cultural tradition that can't be criticized, when in reality all anyone was ever questioning in this "against-lemurcat" narrative was your ability to determine her boss' true wishes.
I will reiterate so you can no longer twist my argument to make sarcastic jabs at me towards other people: I think faking drinking is a good idea. I think that you are wrong to claim that her boss must not want her to drink because you can't imagine it from your own experiences. That's it.1
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