Can we settle this calorie debate???

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  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
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    Weight loss when overweight is not an undesirable change

    Getting overweight in the first place is

    Following an advisable cautious path to lose that weight will in some way affect the amount you can eat after you lose ...there is no way to eradicate that as you will be a smaller person and need less energy ...minimising any metabolic shift through slower weight loss and building back to a new maintenance level slowly.

    Focusing on some things obfuscate the process which is IMHO quite simple

    Am I overweight?

    Yes => Do I need to lose weight?

    Yes => Eat fewer calories than I use (focus on both sides of equation energy in or energy out)

    => lose weight

    Hit target weight
    => am I at the weight I want?

    Yes => Start to increase intake and wait until water stabilises (2-4 weeks), increase again and again until stable

    Do I want to maintain this new weight?

    Yes => How many calories do I need to eat, how much exercise do I need to do (ooo would you just look at all that lovely data I have from the last x amount of time losing weight lets use that)

    => continual bio-feedback tracking
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,986 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Oh boy, i think I'll just stick to estimating lol

    Excuse me for thinking that a few minutes of basic arithmetic to make use of all the data from the logging I do anyway is a small price to pay for actually knowing what results I should really expect based on how much I'm eating, rather than going on forever losing two pounds for every one pound MFP tells me I will lose.

    Or don't excuse me. I don't see anything to apologize for in being able to calculate an average. And I don't see anything funny about it ("lol"). Shaming people (especially women) for being able to do arithmetic is wrong on so many levels.
  • dykask
    dykask Posts: 800 Member
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    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Oh boy, i think I'll just stick to estimating lol

    Excuse me for thinking that a few minutes of basic arithmetic to make use of all the data from the logging I do anyway is a small price to pay for actually knowing what results I should really expect based on how much I'm eating, rather than going on forever losing two pounds for every one pound MFP tells me I will lose.

    Or don't excuse me. I don't see anything to apologize for in being able to calculate an average. And I don't see anything funny about it ("lol"). Shaming people (especially women) for being able to do arithmetic is wrong on so many levels.

    Well if you really want to hone your math skills, dive into the 3500 kc / lb of fat estimate. It is a pervasive number used everywhere and it is probably wrong for most people. :smile:
  • dykask
    dykask Posts: 800 Member
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    Sued0nim wrote: »
    Weight loss when overweight is not an undesirable change

    Getting overweight in the first place is

    Following an advisable cautious path to lose that weight will in some way affect the amount you can eat after you lose ...there is no way to eradicate that as you will be a smaller person and need less energy ...minimising any metabolic shift through slower weight loss and building back to a new maintenance level slowly.

    ...

    => continual bio-feedback tracking

    Of coarse if you are smaller you need less food, that isn't the issue. In the study I referenced the REE and NREE ended lower than could be accounted for by body composition changes. This is something that has shown up in other studies too, the most noticeable one is the biggest loser study. In short I don't want to eat like I'm 100 lbs less when I'm only 50 lbs less. :smiley:
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,389 Member
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    Motions28 wrote: »
    I'm a math teacher. It drives me crazy there isn't a set answer to this....a yes or no would be fantastic. I've been doing this for 50 days and have lost 11.5 pounds so things are moving in the right direction. I just want to know if what I am doing is causing my body harm. I don't plan on staying at this once I reach my target weight...but it seems like the consensus is to eat half workout cals back. I'm never going to be hungry...

    If you are a math teacher, just use the data you have in hand already. You can calculate your daily or weekly rate of weight loss, and then compare it to your food and exercise logging to find your total error.

    But since you aren't weighing your food, you can't really be sure where the error is. Not to say that you can't lose weight without weighing the food you eat, as you and many others have proven that you can.


    The system MFP uses is designed to allow you to eat back all exercise calories. The problem lies in the fact that all calorie expenditure numbers, both for exercise and non exercise activities, are estimates. If your activity level and exercise estimates are close, you will be closer to MFP goal. Many apps, machine, and MFP estimates for certain exercises are unrealistic. If you use reasonably accurate calorie burn estimates you should be able to eat back all your exercise calories.



    I personally think the trend of many suggesting eat back half is simply people leaning towards any error producing greater weight loss. And for those that don't exercise as much, that might not be a bad thing. But for anyone exercising longer and/or harder it could easily lead to unhealthy deficits. It has been proven that weight loss that is too rapid can lead to metabolic damage in the long run, and those people struggle to maintain once at desired weight. Large deficits can also have short and long term impact on hormone levels, mood, and mental health in general.

    Though it's not an exact, I think the basic suggestion of never losing more than 1% of a persons body weight per week is fairly sound for most people. Greater percentages for very large people might be the lesser of the evils at times, but at that point a doctor should probably be involved regardless. Even at 1% I think that is pushing things some, and think many people would notice energy drops or performance drops if training.
  • CasperNaegle
    CasperNaegle Posts: 936 Member
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    My suggestion is to keep yourself in a 20% deficit overall. So yes you have you know your total caloric burn to do that. I measure and weigh all my food. I estimate my weightlifting burn for the week and just keep my calories flat off that.
  • oolou
    oolou Posts: 765 Member
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    Motions28 wrote: »
    If MFP says my goal is 1500 calories, and I burn 600 calories, should I be eating a total of 2100 calories? Or get my 1500? I've been told both by friends on here. I don't use a food scale every time so I adjust for variage counting. I would love to get a definitive answer on this. Thanks in advance....

    You can give yourself the definite answer on this in about 6 weeks time. Choose one way or the other but stay consistent on whether or not you are going to eat your exercise calories or not. Log your calories eaten and your weight loss over that period of time. Work out your TDEE bearing in mind that for each pound lost you are adding 3500 to the total calorie intake. If you have lost more or less than expected, adjust your intake!

  • debrag12
    debrag12 Posts: 1,071 Member
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    Did you calculate 1500 from your TDEE or using MFP? If using TDEE (- 10 to 20%) then that accounts for exercise calories, MFP doesn't and expects you to NET your GOAL. I would say eat as many back so you NET 1500. If your are set to sedentary you probably aren't being a teacher.
  • solieco1
    solieco1 Posts: 1,559 Member
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    Motions28 wrote: »
    I'm a math teacher. It drives me crazy there isn't a set answer to this....a yes or no would be fantastic. I've been doing this for 50 days and have lost 11.5 pounds so things are moving in the right direction. I just want to know if what I am doing is causing my body harm. I don't plan on staying at this once I reach my target weight...but it seems like the consensus is to eat half workout cals back. I'm never going to be hungry...

    A math guy that wants exactness on the output side but doesn't use a food scale and just kinda wings the input side :D I'm just laughing because I'm Ms Analytical as well and I see myself here if I on't stay on top of it. The exercise trackers, machines and estimates are notoriously optimistic. I use every gadget and data collector know to man from gamins, to HRM, to cadence sensors, to power meters and if I eat back all of my calories I don't lose.

    Try half and see how it goes.
  • daniip_la
    daniip_la Posts: 678 Member
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    I'm a chemist, working on a PhD. So data and numbers are my life.

    What I did to figure out the answer to this question (in my case, it was if the exercise calories Fitbit was giving me were okay to eat), I tracked my intake, Fitbit-given output, and weight for 7 or 8 weeks.

    I made some excel spreadsheets and calculated how much weight I should have lost, based on what I ate, versus how much weight I actually lost. I didn't include my first few weeks of weight loss data since that included a lot of water weight.

    The numbers matched within less than a pound, in my favour, which led me to accept the conclusion that my Fitbit gives accurate numbers and I can eat back all my exercise calories it gives me and lose according to plan.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    Motions28 wrote: »
    If MFP says my goal is 1500 calories, and I burn 600 calories, should I be eating a total of 2100 calories? Or get my 1500? I've been told both by friends on here. I don't use a food scale every time so I adjust for variage counting. I would love to get a definitive answer on this. Thanks in advance....

    Definitive answer is you should be eating back your exercise calories because that how the tool works and how your goal was arrived at. The goal is 1500 + exercise calories.

    The complication is that estimating calories can be difficult.
    Avoid the simplistic "eat 50%" thing as that's ludicrous to assume a whole database is off by some standard percentage.
    What exercise are you doing to get your supposed 600 cal burn?

    Unless you are very small 1500 is already an aggressive goal, don't make the process harder than it has to be. Adherence is a huge part of being successful or failing.
    In the end both your intake and output are estimates, all you have to do is set a reasonable weight loss rate that you can adhere to and make adjustments based on results over time.
  • ummijaaz560
    ummijaaz560 Posts: 228 Member
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    For those who have a strength training routine, do you eat back those calories?

    I've seen many heavy lifters on here say they don't even bother logging it?

    MFP gives me like 198 calories for 1 hour of lifting, should I eat those calories back?
  • Maxematics
    Maxematics Posts: 2,287 Member
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    solieco1 wrote: »
    Motions28 wrote: »
    I'm a math teacher. It drives me crazy there isn't a set answer to this....a yes or no would be fantastic. I've been doing this for 50 days and have lost 11.5 pounds so things are moving in the right direction. I just want to know if what I am doing is causing my body harm. I don't plan on staying at this once I reach my target weight...but it seems like the consensus is to eat half workout cals back. I'm never going to be hungry...

    A math guy that wants exactness on the output side but doesn't use a food scale and just kinda wings the input side :D I'm just laughing because I'm Ms Analytical as well and I see myself here if I on't stay on top of it. The exercise trackers, machines and estimates are notoriously optimistic. I use every gadget and data collector know to man from gamins, to HRM, to cadence sensors, to power meters and if I eat back all of my calories I don't lose.

    Try half and see how it goes.

    This is exactly what I was thinking. I'm a data junkie and I'm a math teacher like the OP. I try to keep my data as accurate as possible with the use of a Fitbit Charge HR and a food scale. I couldn't imagine wanting a precise answer on my CO without trying to accurately track my CI and use my own data to my advantage.

    I'm trying to maintain my weight. I eat back all of my exercise calories unless my appetite wants me to eat a bit less or a bit more. I follow my hunger cues first and foremost. It's been working for me.
  • seekingdaintiness
    seekingdaintiness Posts: 137 Member
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    Motions28 wrote: »
    If MFP says my goal is 1500 calories, and I burn 600 calories, should I be eating a total of 2100 calories? Or get my 1500? I've been told both by friends on here. I don't use a food scale every time so I adjust for variage counting. I would love to get a definitive answer on this. Thanks in advance....

    Just 1500. I don't know why people on here think they should eat back their exercise calories when even the mfp dietician says you shouldn't. And people on here wonder why they have a hard time losing weight, jeez...
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
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    ummijaaz560 wrote: »
    For those who have a strength training routine, do you eat back those calories?

    I've seen many heavy lifters on here say they don't even bother logging it?

    MFP gives me like 198 calories for 1 hour of lifting, should I eat those calories back?

    200 for an hour seems fine to me ..try it for a few weeks and see
  • seekingdaintiness
    seekingdaintiness Posts: 137 Member
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    http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/ask-the-dietitian-should-i-eat-back-my-exercise-calories/
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,565 Member
    edited August 2016
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    bujiebuke wrote: »
    Calorie counters on treadmills and machines etc account for TOTAL calories, which includes the calories that you would have lost during that time by just sitting on the couch instead of exercising.
    They measure activity through METS

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,565 Member
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    Let's not major too much in the minors here. If weight loss is the goal, and MFP has you set for 1500, then WITHOUT exercise with this calorie intake you lose weight. Any added exercise will increase your deficit, so like most say, eat back about half.
    If your weight continues to reduce and your clothes are getting looser, then continue.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

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