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How do we judge a healthy weight range? BMI is no longer valid?

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Replies

  • MarkusDarwath
    MarkusDarwath Posts: 393 Member
    fatfudgery wrote: »
    I can say that being 6'1", 46 yo, and large framed there is absolutely no reason I should weigh less than 210-220.

    What are you basing that on, exactly? I'm a big guy (6'4", large frame), I lift, and at my current 220 lbs / 13-14% BF I could definitely afford to lose a couple of pounds of fat...

    Perhaps you could afford to, but there's no reason you need to unless it's for competition or just the look you prefer. At 13-14% BF you already are an athletic body composition. Going lower starts to bring you into that elite range. I have no desire to look quite that cut. I'm not a huge fan of it, and especially don't think it looks appropriate at my age. Toned with functional strength is fine for me.
  • MarkusDarwath
    MarkusDarwath Posts: 393 Member
    In fact, recommendations from the medical community are to lose weight if you're in the obese range, and to simply not gain weight if you're in the overweight range and lacking other risk factors for weight-related issues.

    Exactly this! "Overweight" by BMI is not actually over-weight, it is simply a weight. The use of that term with that BMI range is, in my opinion, a form of shaming motivated by social engineering goals.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
  • Dove0804 wrote: »
    Haven't read through the thread.

    I have a BMI of 28. My current goal weight will give me a BMI of 25. I'll still be just a bit into the overweight range. As it stands right now at my current BMI, my doctor has no issue with me maintaining here. I want to lose a few more pounds for myself - mainly because I want to go down another clothing size or two, and I want to hopefully improve my running by weighing a bit less. My BP is 110/60, my RHR is in the low 50's, my cholesterol is 129, my HDL is above 50, my triglycerides and LDL are ideal, and my fasting glucose is in the low 80's. My waist circumference and hip/waist ratio are also where they need to be. I'm healthy. Sorry not sorry. Maybe I'll lose a few more pounds when I get to BMI of 25. Maybe I won't. I've approached all of my weight loss as a wait-and-see with small goals along the way.

    BMI is a tool, and it has its uses, and there isn't some major problem with it being applied correctly by a clinician as a diagnostic tool or as a general guideline for someone trying to determine the amount of weight they want to lose or gain. What people forget is that BMI is just one measure, and a good doctor will tell you this. In fact, recommendations from the medical community are to lose weight if you're in the obese range, and to simply not gain weight if you're in the overweight range and lacking other risk factors for weight-related issues. Waist circumference is important. So are lab values and BP readings. Every individual should discuss their goals with their doctor. Not everyone has to fit in the same box. Exercise and a healthy diet will take you far even if your weight is not "perfect."

    People who believe that BMI over 24 is always unhealthy and a recipe for diabetes and heart disease are either not doctors or simply have issues with fat people. Doesn't matter what our cultural norms on size may have become.

    Please understand that my (and others') point is simply that BMI is not complete bullpucky and is valid as a generalization for a large portion of the population. It's important to take other things into consideration as well and there is nothing wrong with aiming for a higher BMI all other things considered (like body fat, waist circumference, lab work, etc.), especially if that's where someone feels their best. I don't think anyone here argued that BMI is the end-all-be-all. You may want to read through the thread.

    This was more my standard commentary on this topic in general and not directed at anyone in this thread since, like you're aware, I haven't read the thread. On these forums, though, and in other places, I have seen people remark with very black-and-white thinking on what constitutes health. Sometimes, it's just repeating things that they have heard over and over. Sometimes, it's obvious that their health concerns are really coming from another place. I'm also a believer, as the medical community is, that just losing 10% is a good goal, even if it leaves you in the obese category. There's such a thing as risk reduction, and people do improve things like diabetes and blood pressure, sometimes dramatically, without losing all of their excess weight/fat. Not quite what the OP was asking, but I like to point these things out where I can, because knowing that I could make an impact even if I didn't get as far as I have made such a difference to me in getting started at all.
  • bitshred
    bitshred Posts: 24 Member
    BMI is a joke, at least for me. I have bigger frame. A few years ago, I was riding my bike 125 miles a week and weighed a little over 200. Some nurses came to my workplace, they went by the numbers and told me I was nearly obese. I was like "seriously"?, I mean my thighs were all muscle and I have a big chest. Had a little belly, but what a joke. They said I should be more like 175. I was that once, and people told me I looked too skinny, unhealthy. Anyway, I am now much heavier, and definitely need to lose like 30 pounds. But screw BMI, it's no longer used.
    No, I haven't read any other posts on this thread, no time. Have to go for a bike ride!
  • MarkusDarwath
    MarkusDarwath Posts: 393 Member
    Your conspiracy theory ideas of vegans plotting social engineering by inventing the BMI scale don't help your case.

    Your unwillingness to question basic assumptions handed to you by self-appointed authorities doesn't
    help yours.

    Evidence of dishonesty and social manipulation by "those in charge" is everywhere, media, education, politics... why would govt supported health and nutrition guidelines be any different? We are living in Orwell's "1984" to a far greater degree than most people are willing to even consider.


  • MarkusDarwath
    MarkusDarwath Posts: 393 Member
    edited August 2016
    Hornsby wrote: »

    There seems to be some Tardis stuff going on with that person, since the parts of the 180 pound person come up to over 193 pounds.

    I would presume there may be some overlap between "blood, water and lymph system" and other organs. Even taking this link with a large grain of salt, 94 pounds does not sound excessive for lean mass excluding muscle.
  • MarkusDarwath
    MarkusDarwath Posts: 393 Member
    People's perception of a normal weight has changed as society has gotten heavier, but the health effects of carrying extra fat do not.

    This is an oft-repeated claim, but does not hold up when comparing the appearances of celebrities today with those from 60 or more years ago.


  • Gallowmere1984
    Gallowmere1984 Posts: 6,626 Member
    ouryve wrote: »
    Celebrities are not representative of the general population. Your average supermarket is not awash with Brad Pitt body doubles.

    That's an understatement. I think I've only seen maybe five, ever. Then again, I do live in Richmond, VA, so there's that.
  • MissusMoon
    MissusMoon Posts: 1,900 Member
    People's perception of a normal weight has changed as society has gotten heavier, but the health effects of carrying extra fat do not.

    This is an oft-repeated claim, but does not hold up when comparing the appearances of celebrities today with those from 60 or more years ago.


    It's not a claim, it's a fact. Marilyn Monroe's average weight was 118 pounds, despite spurious claims she was a plus sized woman. (During Some Like it Hot, she was pregnant then miscarried, the only time she was considered large). Scarlett Johansson, a reasonable comparison in type, weighs 127lbs.

    "In 1960, the average American male weighed about 166.3 pounds, which was the average weight for American women in 2010 at 166.2 pounds, which marks about a 18.5 percent increase. The average weight for women in 1960 was 140 pounds, according to the CDC report." http://www.livescience.com/49-decade-study-americans-taller-fatter.html

  • MarkusDarwath
    MarkusDarwath Posts: 393 Member
    ouryve wrote: »
    Celebrities are not representative of the general population. Your average supermarket is not awash with Brad Pitt body doubles.


    You're right, they are not, but they are pretty representative of what people -think- they should look like.
  • MarkusDarwath
    MarkusDarwath Posts: 393 Member
    Dove0804 wrote: »
    Exactly this. The weight of celebrities is a COMPLETELY different story and are in no way representative of the rest of the population. The average national weight has increased dramatically over the years.

    But we weren't talking about what people actually look like or the average actual weight. The point was regarding perceptions about what a "normal" weight looks like. If perceptions have actually shifted so much that the majority think a healthy weight looks overly skinny, then celebrities should be larger as a group, reflecting the changing tastes of their fans. This has not happened. If anything, celebrity media promotes an image that is leaner and more toned/defined than in decades past. Brad Pitt wouldn't be making nearly so much money if most movie fans didn't think he looks good.

    The trope about changing perceptions most often is touted by those who would call Ashley Grahm "fat", for example.

  • MarkusDarwath
    MarkusDarwath Posts: 393 Member
    MissusMoon wrote: »
    It's not a claim, it's a fact. Marilyn Monroe's average weight was 118 pounds, despite spurious claims she was a plus sized woman. (During Some Like it Hot, she was pregnant then miscarried, the only time she was considered large). Scarlett Johansson, a reasonable comparison in type, weighs 127lbs.

    Scarlett Johansson is pretty clearly more lean/muscular than Marilyn Monroe was. I don't know that too many people would call either one of them either skinny or overweight. Comparing two people of the same height, if one has less fat and more muscle than the other, ten pounds difference isn't going to be terribly noticeable unless you're looking at them undressed (or in skin tight clothes.)

  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    MissusMoon wrote: »
    It's not a claim, it's a fact. Marilyn Monroe's average weight was 118 pounds, despite spurious claims she was a plus sized woman. (During Some Like it Hot, she was pregnant then miscarried, the only time she was considered large). Scarlett Johansson, a reasonable comparison in type, weighs 127lbs.

    Scarlett Johansson is pretty clearly more lean/muscular than Marilyn Monroe was. I don't know that too many people would call either one of them either skinny or overweight. Comparing two people of the same height, if one has less fat and more muscle than the other, ten pounds difference isn't going to be terribly noticeable unless you're looking at them undressed (or in skin tight clothes.)

    At 5'5, 10lbs is a considerable difference in myself, clothed or unclothed. I imagine even more so for someone shorter.
  • jenilla1
    jenilla1 Posts: 11,118 Member
    ...For at least half the population, even the high end of their "ideal" range is overly skinny without offering any health benefit. I suspect the category designations were established by vegans...

    LOL, Nope.
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    edited August 2016
    Dove0804 wrote: »
    Exactly this. The weight of celebrities is a COMPLETELY different story and are in no way representative of the rest of the population. The average national weight has increased dramatically over the years.

    But we weren't talking about what people actually look like or the average actual weight. The point was regarding perceptions about what a "normal" weight looks like. If perceptions have actually shifted so much that the majority think a healthy weight looks overly skinny, then celebrities should be larger as a group, reflecting the changing tastes of their fans. This has not happened. If anything, celebrity media promotes an image that is leaner and more toned/defined than in decades past. Brad Pitt wouldn't be making nearly so much money if most movie fans didn't think he looks good.

    The trope about changing perceptions most often is touted by those who would call Ashley Grahm "fat", for example.

    Ashley is 5'9" 180. There are college wide receivers that get NFL shots that are 5'10" 180.

    She's a good sized girl
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    Dove0804 wrote: »
    Exactly this. The weight of celebrities is a COMPLETELY different story and are in no way representative of the rest of the population. The average national weight has increased dramatically over the years.

    But we weren't talking about what people actually look like or the average actual weight. The point was regarding perceptions about what a "normal" weight looks like. If perceptions have actually shifted so much that the majority think a healthy weight looks overly skinny, then celebrities should be larger as a group, reflecting the changing tastes of their fans. This has not happened. If anything, celebrity media promotes an image that is leaner and more toned/defined than in decades past. Brad Pitt wouldn't be making nearly so much money if most movie fans didn't think he looks good.

    The trope about changing perceptions most often is touted by those who would call Ashley Grahm "fat", for example.

    Celebrities represent an "ideal", a daydream, a parallel world, certainly not what most normal people believe is achievable. In reality, people compare themselves to each other way more often than they do to celebrities. Ashley Graham is a celebrity, so celebrities are compared to celebrities and she is by no means thin, but I assure you if she weren't famous very few would be inclined to call her fat even she technically is.
  • ouryve
    ouryve Posts: 572 Member
    MissusMoon wrote: »
    It's not a claim, it's a fact. Marilyn Monroe's average weight was 118 pounds, despite spurious claims she was a plus sized woman. (During Some Like it Hot, she was pregnant then miscarried, the only time she was considered large). Scarlett Johansson, a reasonable comparison in type, weighs 127lbs.

    Scarlett Johansson is pretty clearly more lean/muscular than Marilyn Monroe was. I don't know that too many people would call either one of them either skinny or overweight. Comparing two people of the same height, if one has less fat and more muscle than the other, ten pounds difference isn't going to be terribly noticeable unless you're looking at them undressed (or in skin tight clothes.)

    At 5'5, 10lbs is a considerable difference in myself, clothed or unclothed. I imagine even more so for someone shorter.

    At 5'4, 10lb lost the gut shelf I can rest my lunch on!
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