To build muscle how much weight do I have to be lifting?
dave_in_ni
Posts: 533 Member
To be honest I am not sure where I am going wrong, yes I shouldn't compare myself to others but its so obvious that I am doing something wrong. How much weight do I have to be lifting to build muscle?
As I have said before I started lifting in January and also my diet, lost 60lbs or so but being on a diet I only got so far before I plateaued. So start of the summer I stopped cutting and went to maintenance. The strength definitely went up but sadly no muscle built.
An example of what I am lifting at the moment is
OHP = 100LBS X 5 REPS X 3 SETS
BP = 120LBS X 5 X 3
SQUAT = 185LBS X 5 X 3
DL = 185LBS X 5 X 3
Once I complete a set I add weight the next time so I keep increasing my weights. What I'm doing at the moment isn't working,
I work out 5 times per week and below is todays workout just so you know what I'm doing.
Barbell Squat 5 x 8
Lunges 5 x 3
Standing Calf Raise
Ab circuit: Sit up, Leg Raise, Leg Pull In
And here is me this morning, Not much to show after almost 9 months lifting. http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0
As I have said before I started lifting in January and also my diet, lost 60lbs or so but being on a diet I only got so far before I plateaued. So start of the summer I stopped cutting and went to maintenance. The strength definitely went up but sadly no muscle built.
An example of what I am lifting at the moment is
OHP = 100LBS X 5 REPS X 3 SETS
BP = 120LBS X 5 X 3
SQUAT = 185LBS X 5 X 3
DL = 185LBS X 5 X 3
Once I complete a set I add weight the next time so I keep increasing my weights. What I'm doing at the moment isn't working,
I work out 5 times per week and below is todays workout just so you know what I'm doing.
Barbell Squat 5 x 8
Lunges 5 x 3
Standing Calf Raise
Ab circuit: Sit up, Leg Raise, Leg Pull In
And here is me this morning, Not much to show after almost 9 months lifting. http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0
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Replies
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Keep adding weight. Be patient, keep to a progressive overload program, and it will come.
To be honest though, focus on the squat, deadlift, overhead press, bench press, farmer's carry, rows, and other big movements. I would say the calf raises can come later.
3 -
Are you eating in a surplus?
Gaining muscle requires progressive overload, not being able to lift a particular amount.1 -
I agree with sunny, focus on the big compound movements. Look into a good 5x5 program for overall mass and solid core muscle. There are a lot of good variations out there, most based on Reg Park's original model.
Also you may need to cut back on your volume with the 5 times a week. If this is all weight training you may not be giving your body time to recover and rebuild. Remember working out doesn't build muscle, it's just breaking it down. Nutrition and sleep are what builds it. Give yourself 36-48 hours between workouts on a specific muscle group for recovery and rebuilding.
Add lots of protein to your diet and get plenty of sleep. Nothing ruins gains more than poor diet, stress, and lack of sleep.4 -
You're doing strength training. Strength training does allow for muscle increase, but if you wanna start building muscle do some accessory work. Squat+Leg Press+Lunge - Deadlifts+Rows+Pull ups/Pull downs - Shoulder Press+Front, and side lateral raises+shrugs - Bench Press+machine fly+dumbbell bench press. Consider switching to Wendlers 531. I like it better for consistent strength gains, and fuller feeling pumps.2
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Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
1 -
TavistockToad wrote: »Are you eating in a surplus?
Gaining muscle requires progressive overload, not being able to lift a particular amount.
i think this is absolutely necessary.
NOT TO MENTION- You are currently training with the incorrect volume and rep ranges. For someone of your size, you seem to be pulling some pretty decent(okay) weight. it's not surprising though, because you've been training in the "maximal strength" ranges. Something that a lot of people don't know, being strong is not the same as looking good. Or another way of saying this, training for strength and training for aesthetics is totally different.
If you were my client and you came to me with this issue, this is what i'd do:
-firstly, confirming you're happy with your current level of body fat and want to focus solely on building muscle-
1.) ensure that you're eating in a small caloric surplus. since you're a newbie, you can expect to gain MAX about 2 pounds of muscle per month.I would have you eat roughly 250 extra calories a day.
2.) ensure that you're getting adequate carbohydrates and protein.
3.) You would train 4 days per week max, maybe even 3. Something i like to do with my clients is an every-other day training schedule. So one week it's 3 days, the next week it's four days.
4.) When you're in the gym, i'd probably put you on an upper/lower body split. this way you have ample time for rest and recovery in between workouts.
5.) You'd be lifting in the "hypertrophy" range: 6-12 reps, 3-5 sets, with about 60 seconds rest. Mostly compound lifts, with some accessory as needed and only towards the end of the workout.
6.) We'd focus on proper recovery from training: i.e. stretching, foam rolling, good sleep, plenty of water, making sure to eat enough, etc.
7.) Each 6 weeks or so we'd switch things up with the exercises (to account for adaptations)
I am fairly certain that if you employ the above you should start seeing some pretty great results in the next 6 months or so. It will be difficult at first to see some real "gains" mostly because of your current level of body fat, but, keep at it and you can cut later.
p.s. here's a guide to acute variables of training.
10 -
How much are you eating?
You cut using a 1500 calorie deficit because you were impatient about losing. Now you've been eating more for just a couple of months and are impatient again. If you want to get somewhere with this, be patient.3 -
I would suggest higher volume. Sets of 12-15 reps. Work toward hypertrophy. My rule of thumb. If I'm not fighting to finish my last set, then I need to increase the weight. If your form starts breaking down, then stop. Also, make sure you are following a structured program.1
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hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.0 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
Then you do recomp which is slooooooooooow and get used to not seeing fast results.2 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
Then there is nothing wrong with staying at maintenance and continuing progressive overload. You can add muscle and strength at maintenance, just make sure you are indeed following a progressive overload program and you are getting adequate protein. Once you truly hit a wall on strength gains and recomp, then consider a long, slow "clean" bulk where you add maybe 250 calories a day for a few weeks, then up it further if you aren't gaining weight. Keep in mind that the "healthy BMI" thing is going to eventually go out the window if you keep it up because muscle mass can put you over.3 -
rainbowbow wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Are you eating in a surplus?
Gaining muscle requires progressive overload, not being able to lift a particular amount.
i think this is absolutely necessary.
NOT TO MENTION- You are currently training with the incorrect volume and rep ranges. For someone of your size, you seem to be pulling some pretty decent(okay) weight. it's not surprising though, because you've been training in the "maximal strength" ranges. Something that a lot of people don't know, being strong is not the same as looking good. Or another way of saying this, training for strength and training for aesthetics is totally different.
If you were my client and you came to me with this issue, this is what i'd do:
-firstly, confirming you're happy with your current level of body fat and want to focus solely on building muscle-
1.) ensure that you're eating in a small caloric surplus. since you're a newbie, you can expect to gain MAX about 2 pounds of muscle per month.I would have you eat roughly 250 extra calories a day.
2.) ensure that you're getting adequate carbohydrates and protein.
3.) You would train 4 days per week max, maybe even 3. Something i like to do with my clients is an every-other day training schedule. So one week it's 3 days, the next week it's four days.
4.) When you're in the gym, i'd probably put you on an upper/lower body split. this way you have ample time for rest and recovery in between workouts.
5.) You'd be lifting in the "hypertrophy" range: 6-12 reps, 3-5 sets, with about 60 seconds rest. Mostly compound lifts, with some accessory as needed and only towards the end of the workout.
6.) We'd focus on proper recovery from training: i.e. stretching, foam rolling, good sleep, plenty of water, making sure to eat enough, etc.
7.) Each 6 weeks or so we'd switch things up with the exercises (to account for adaptations)
I am fairly certain that if you employ the above you should start seeing some pretty great results in the next 6 months or so. It will be difficult at first to see some real "gains" mostly because of your current level of body fat, but, keep at it and you can cut later.
p.s. here's a guide to acute variables of training.
Wow great post thanks. I train in that rep range because I started of on strong lifts who told me that heavy low rep will build strength yes but an added benefit of muscle. Well OK the strength is coming the muscle no.
I am not happy with my level of body fat, It looks to be 20%+ I am still fat but skinny which is where I did not want to be when I started my cut and to make sure this didn't happen I was taking 2-3 protein shakes per day with BCAA's and plenty of turkey and chicken as well as working out 4-5 times per week and guess what? It still happened anyway0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
Then you do recomp which is slooooooooooow and get used to not seeing fast results.
OK so say I go over surplus, how can I be sure I won't gain fat rather than muscle?0 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Are you eating in a surplus?
Gaining muscle requires progressive overload, not being able to lift a particular amount.
i think this is absolutely necessary.
NOT TO MENTION- You are currently training with the incorrect volume and rep ranges. For someone of your size, you seem to be pulling some pretty decent(okay) weight. it's not surprising though, because you've been training in the "maximal strength" ranges. Something that a lot of people don't know, being strong is not the same as looking good. Or another way of saying this, training for strength and training for aesthetics is totally different.
If you were my client and you came to me with this issue, this is what i'd do:
-firstly, confirming you're happy with your current level of body fat and want to focus solely on building muscle-
1.) ensure that you're eating in a small caloric surplus. since you're a newbie, you can expect to gain MAX about 2 pounds of muscle per month.I would have you eat roughly 250 extra calories a day.
2.) ensure that you're getting adequate carbohydrates and protein.
3.) You would train 4 days per week max, maybe even 3. Something i like to do with my clients is an every-other day training schedule. So one week it's 3 days, the next week it's four days.
4.) When you're in the gym, i'd probably put you on an upper/lower body split. this way you have ample time for rest and recovery in between workouts.
5.) You'd be lifting in the "hypertrophy" range: 6-12 reps, 3-5 sets, with about 60 seconds rest. Mostly compound lifts, with some accessory as needed and only towards the end of the workout.
6.) We'd focus on proper recovery from training: i.e. stretching, foam rolling, good sleep, plenty of water, making sure to eat enough, etc.
7.) Each 6 weeks or so we'd switch things up with the exercises (to account for adaptations)
I am fairly certain that if you employ the above you should start seeing some pretty great results in the next 6 months or so. It will be difficult at first to see some real "gains" mostly because of your current level of body fat, but, keep at it and you can cut later.
p.s. here's a guide to acute variables of training.
Wow great post thanks. I train in that rep range because I started of on strong lifts who told me that heavy low rep will build strength yes but an added benefit of muscle. Well OK the strength is coming the muscle no.
I am not happy with my level of body fat, It looks to be 20%+ I am still fat but skinny which is where I did not want to be when I started my cut and to make sure this didn't happen I was taking 2-3 protein shakes per day with BCAA's and plenty of turkey and chicken as well as working out 4-5 times per week and guess what? It still happened anyway
If you cut with a 1500 cal deficit as someone upthread said, then that's not really surprising.1 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
Then you do recomp which is slooooooooooow and get used to not seeing fast results.
OK so say I go over surplus, how can I be sure I won't gain fat rather than muscle?
If you eat in a surplus then you will gain some fat...0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
Then you do recomp which is slooooooooooow and get used to not seeing fast results.
OK so say I go over surplus, how can I be sure I won't gain fat rather than muscle?
If you eat in a surplus then you will gain some fat...
yep, but fat on a body with more muscle... in my opinion looks better than super skinny with no muscle.
This is why, in general, if a guy trains with me and is in the teens of body fat we go straight to bulking for a while. Every few months we might run 6 weeks of a very slight deficit to minimize fat gains.
you have two options:
1.) cut further (WITH A SMALL DEFICIT) until you're happy with your body fat percentage and THEN focus on building muscle
2.) bulk now (with a SMALL surplus), do a few mini cuts to minimize the extra fat, and THEN focus on cutting
in my opinion, a recomp would not be a good idea for someone in your shoes. It takes far too long and i don't think you'll be happy with those results.1 -
OP - you're going to get tied up in knots if you think you need to change details such as rep ranges at this point. With your numbers where they are, you're still starting out and you really just need to stick to a program and keep going. If you want to change programs, okay, but don't do it if that means you're going to switch every couple of months or so. Consistent adherance to your diet and lifting program is what will bring you the results. When you start deadlifting and squatting twice your body weight then consider whether what you really want a bodybuilding program or a strength building program, but for now it just doesn't matter all that much when compared to basic work you need to get done.2
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TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Are you eating in a surplus?
Gaining muscle requires progressive overload, not being able to lift a particular amount.
i think this is absolutely necessary.
NOT TO MENTION- You are currently training with the incorrect volume and rep ranges. For someone of your size, you seem to be pulling some pretty decent(okay) weight. it's not surprising though, because you've been training in the "maximal strength" ranges. Something that a lot of people don't know, being strong is not the same as looking good. Or another way of saying this, training for strength and training for aesthetics is totally different.
If you were my client and you came to me with this issue, this is what i'd do:
-firstly, confirming you're happy with your current level of body fat and want to focus solely on building muscle-
1.) ensure that you're eating in a small caloric surplus. since you're a newbie, you can expect to gain MAX about 2 pounds of muscle per month.I would have you eat roughly 250 extra calories a day.
2.) ensure that you're getting adequate carbohydrates and protein.
3.) You would train 4 days per week max, maybe even 3. Something i like to do with my clients is an every-other day training schedule. So one week it's 3 days, the next week it's four days.
4.) When you're in the gym, i'd probably put you on an upper/lower body split. this way you have ample time for rest and recovery in between workouts.
5.) You'd be lifting in the "hypertrophy" range: 6-12 reps, 3-5 sets, with about 60 seconds rest. Mostly compound lifts, with some accessory as needed and only towards the end of the workout.
6.) We'd focus on proper recovery from training: i.e. stretching, foam rolling, good sleep, plenty of water, making sure to eat enough, etc.
7.) Each 6 weeks or so we'd switch things up with the exercises (to account for adaptations)
I am fairly certain that if you employ the above you should start seeing some pretty great results in the next 6 months or so. It will be difficult at first to see some real "gains" mostly because of your current level of body fat, but, keep at it and you can cut later.
p.s. here's a guide to acute variables of training.
Wow great post thanks. I train in that rep range because I started of on strong lifts who told me that heavy low rep will build strength yes but an added benefit of muscle. Well OK the strength is coming the muscle no.
I am not happy with my level of body fat, It looks to be 20%+ I am still fat but skinny which is where I did not want to be when I started my cut and to make sure this didn't happen I was taking 2-3 protein shakes per day with BCAA's and plenty of turkey and chicken as well as working out 4-5 times per week and guess what? It still happened anyway
If you cut with a 1500 cal deficit as someone upthread said, then that's not really surprising.
Yep I did, 1500 per day, Didn't drop as much as 1lbs for the first 5 weeks then it was 3=4lbs per week there after. I have more or less the same build I had before my cut, this is me in December 2015 http://imgur.com/a/pr2lS note the prize beer belly, (I'm Irish)0 -
Diminish returns is something you're gonna have to deal with training natty. It's something like 24lbs lean mass 1st year, 12lbs lean mass 2nd year, 6 third, and then 1-3lbs a year after all of that. Eventually you hit a point your natural test levels won't let you pass no matter how pristine your diet ends up being. 4 major lifts, and at least 2 accessory lifts will get you where you want to go eventually. Rich Piana has a good video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTO3k4n98ag 0 -
Diminish returns is something you're gonna have to deal with training natty. It's something like 24lbs lean mass 1st year, 12lbs lean mass 2nd year, 6 third, and then 1-3lbs a year after all of that. Eventually you hit a point your natural test levels won't let you pass no matter how pristine your diet ends up being. 4 major lifts, and at least 2 accessory lifts will get you where you want to go eventually. Rich Piana has a good video
for the love of god... do not listen to rich piana. LOL
but yes, you can read more here about how much you can gain according to a few different methods. All agree about the statistics above.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »Diminish returns is something you're gonna have to deal with training natty. It's something like 24lbs lean mass 1st year, 12lbs lean mass 2nd year, 6 third, and then 1-3lbs a year after all of that. Eventually you hit a point your natural test levels won't let you pass no matter how pristine your diet ends up being. 4 major lifts, and at least 2 accessory lifts will get you where you want to go eventually. Rich Piana has a good videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTO3k4n98ag
for the love of god... do not listen to rich piana. LOL
It's one of rare times he's not straight out full of bull.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »Diminish returns is something you're gonna have to deal with training natty. It's something like 24lbs lean mass 1st year, 12lbs lean mass 2nd year, 6 third, and then 1-3lbs a year after all of that. Eventually you hit a point your natural test levels won't let you pass no matter how pristine your diet ends up being. 4 major lifts, and at least 2 accessory lifts will get you where you want to go eventually. Rich Piana has a good video
for the love of god... do not listen to rich piana. LOL
but yes, you can read more here about how much you can gain according to a few different methods. All agree about the statistics above.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/
Agree that video is completely useless for this thread. I'll add that the OP is nowhere near where a conversation regarding steroids should even enter into the picture. He needs to focus on the basics, get that strength base built, and then worry about things like going for 20-30 set squat sets, steroids, and the other things that may enter into advanced lifting programs. The OP is going to risk legal trouble for steroids when he's benching 120?0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »Diminish returns is something you're gonna have to deal with training natty. It's something like 24lbs lean mass 1st year, 12lbs lean mass 2nd year, 6 third, and then 1-3lbs a year after all of that. Eventually you hit a point your natural test levels won't let you pass no matter how pristine your diet ends up being. 4 major lifts, and at least 2 accessory lifts will get you where you want to go eventually. Rich Piana has a good video
for the love of god... do not listen to rich piana. LOL
but yes, you can read more here about how much you can gain according to a few different methods. All agree about the statistics above.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/
Agree that video is completely useless for this thread. I'll add that the OP is nowhere near where a conversation regarding steroids should even enter into the picture. He needs to focus on the basics, get that strength base built, and then worry about things like going for 20-30 set squat sets, steroids, and the other things that may enter into advanced lifting programs. The OP is going to risk legal trouble for steroids when he's benching 120?
0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »Diminish returns is something you're gonna have to deal with training natty. It's something like 24lbs lean mass 1st year, 12lbs lean mass 2nd year, 6 third, and then 1-3lbs a year after all of that. Eventually you hit a point your natural test levels won't let you pass no matter how pristine your diet ends up being. 4 major lifts, and at least 2 accessory lifts will get you where you want to go eventually. Rich Piana has a good video
for the love of god... do not listen to rich piana. LOL
but yes, you can read more here about how much you can gain according to a few different methods. All agree about the statistics above.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/
Agree that video is completely useless for this thread. I'll add that the OP is nowhere near where a conversation regarding steroids should even enter into the picture. He needs to focus on the basics, get that strength base built, and then worry about things like going for 20-30 set squat sets, steroids, and the other things that may enter into advanced lifting programs. The OP is going to risk legal trouble for steroids when he's benching 120?
I'm referencing the expectations of natty training, not encouraging steroids. OP seems worried he isn't gaining a lot of muscle quickly, and honestly for the most part you won't it's gradual.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Are you eating in a surplus?
Gaining muscle requires progressive overload, not being able to lift a particular amount.
i think this is absolutely necessary.
NOT TO MENTION- You are currently training with the incorrect volume and rep ranges. For someone of your size, you seem to be pulling some pretty decent(okay) weight. it's not surprising though, because you've been training in the "maximal strength" ranges. Something that a lot of people don't know, being strong is not the same as looking good. Or another way of saying this, training for strength and training for aesthetics is totally different.
If you were my client and you came to me with this issue, this is what i'd do:
-firstly, confirming you're happy with your current level of body fat and want to focus solely on building muscle-
1.) ensure that you're eating in a small caloric surplus. since you're a newbie, you can expect to gain MAX about 2 pounds of muscle per month.I would have you eat roughly 250 extra calories a day.
2.) ensure that you're getting adequate carbohydrates and protein.
3.) You would train 4 days per week max, maybe even 3. Something i like to do with my clients is an every-other day training schedule. So one week it's 3 days, the next week it's four days.
4.) When you're in the gym, i'd probably put you on an upper/lower body split. this way you have ample time for rest and recovery in between workouts.
5.) You'd be lifting in the "hypertrophy" range: 6-12 reps, 3-5 sets, with about 60 seconds rest. Mostly compound lifts, with some accessory as needed and only towards the end of the workout.
6.) We'd focus on proper recovery from training: i.e. stretching, foam rolling, good sleep, plenty of water, making sure to eat enough, etc.
7.) Each 6 weeks or so we'd switch things up with the exercises (to account for adaptations)
I am fairly certain that if you employ the above you should start seeing some pretty great results in the next 6 months or so. It will be difficult at first to see some real "gains" mostly because of your current level of body fat, but, keep at it and you can cut later.
p.s. here's a guide to acute variables of training.
What do the numbers next to the tempo in this chart mean? 4/21, 2/0/2?0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Are you eating in a surplus?
Gaining muscle requires progressive overload, not being able to lift a particular amount.
i think this is absolutely necessary.
NOT TO MENTION- You are currently training with the incorrect volume and rep ranges. For someone of your size, you seem to be pulling some pretty decent(okay) weight. it's not surprising though, because you've been training in the "maximal strength" ranges. Something that a lot of people don't know, being strong is not the same as looking good. Or another way of saying this, training for strength and training for aesthetics is totally different.
If you were my client and you came to me with this issue, this is what i'd do:
-firstly, confirming you're happy with your current level of body fat and want to focus solely on building muscle-
1.) ensure that you're eating in a small caloric surplus. since you're a newbie, you can expect to gain MAX about 2 pounds of muscle per month.I would have you eat roughly 250 extra calories a day.
2.) ensure that you're getting adequate carbohydrates and protein.
3.) You would train 4 days per week max, maybe even 3. Something i like to do with my clients is an every-other day training schedule. So one week it's 3 days, the next week it's four days.
4.) When you're in the gym, i'd probably put you on an upper/lower body split. this way you have ample time for rest and recovery in between workouts.
5.) You'd be lifting in the "hypertrophy" range: 6-12 reps, 3-5 sets, with about 60 seconds rest. Mostly compound lifts, with some accessory as needed and only towards the end of the workout.
6.) We'd focus on proper recovery from training: i.e. stretching, foam rolling, good sleep, plenty of water, making sure to eat enough, etc.
7.) Each 6 weeks or so we'd switch things up with the exercises (to account for adaptations)
I am fairly certain that if you employ the above you should start seeing some pretty great results in the next 6 months or so. It will be difficult at first to see some real "gains" mostly because of your current level of body fat, but, keep at it and you can cut later.
p.s. here's a guide to acute variables of training.
What do the numbers next to the tempo in this chart mean? 4/21, 2/0/2?
it's the tempo in seconds.
i think they made a mistake with 4/21. It should be (4/2/1) and (2/0/2) respectively.
So, with maximal strength and power the tempo is as fast/explosive as possible.
But for hypertrophy the eccentric and concentric phase of the lift is equal, with no pauses, and moderate speed. (2 eccentric, 0 isometric, 2 concentric)
For endurance and stabilization the eccentric phase is slow, the isometric phase is moderate, and the concentric phase is explosive. (4 eccentric, 2 isometric, 1 concentric)0 -
It all starts with your goals.
If you want hypertrophy then pick a hypertrophy routine, if you want strength pick a strength routine. But of course neither is all one or the other.
But I agree with @sunnybeaches105 - your goal should be to build a strength base first. If you are consistently adding weight to the bar then it's working.
Personally I think "where am I going wrong" is expecting rapid results. Unless you are young, gifted or taking naughty supplements that's not really how it works. You also don't have a low BF percentage so any growth is going to be hard to see. When you are leaner small amounts of muscle growth are far more apparent.
Based on your pictures you definitely shouldn't go for a calorie surplus unless power and maximum amount of muscle built are absolute and only priorities. From on your comments that's not the case.0 -
It all starts with your goals.
If you want hypertrophy then pick a hypertrophy routine, if you want strength pick a strength routine. But of course neither is all one or the other.
But I agree with @sunnybeaches105 - your goal should be to build a strength base first. If you are consistently adding weight to the bar then it's working.
Personally I think "where am I going wrong" is expecting rapid results. Unless you are young, gifted or taking naughty supplements that's not really how it works. You also don't have a low BF percentage so any growth is going to be hard to see. When you are leaner small amounts of muscle growth are far more apparent.
Based on your pictures you definitely shouldn't go for a calorie surplus unless power and maximum amount of muscle built are absolute and only priorities. From on your comments that's not the case.
Curious how common are these naughty supplements? Is everyone in the gym taking them? I have no intention of doing so, I've got a dodgy ticker and it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do, I won't even take a pre workout containing caffeine as it doesn't agree with the old ticker.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »Diminish returns is something you're gonna have to deal with training natty. It's something like 24lbs lean mass 1st year, 12lbs lean mass 2nd year, 6 third, and then 1-3lbs a year after all of that. Eventually you hit a point your natural test levels won't let you pass no matter how pristine your diet ends up being. 4 major lifts, and at least 2 accessory lifts will get you where you want to go eventually. Rich Piana has a good video
for the love of god... do not listen to rich piana. LOL
but yes, you can read more here about how much you can gain according to a few different methods. All agree about the statistics above.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/
Agree that video is completely useless for this thread. I'll add that the OP is nowhere near where a conversation regarding steroids should even enter into the picture. He needs to focus on the basics, get that strength base built, and then worry about things like going for 20-30 set squat sets, steroids, and the other things that may enter into advanced lifting programs. The OP is going to risk legal trouble for steroids when he's benching 120?
I'm referencing the expectations of natty training, not encouraging steroids. OP seems worried he isn't gaining a lot of muscle quickly, and honestly for the most part you won't it's gradual.
I see your point, but you opened a can a worms in a thread where they aren't even remotely relevant because the OP is nowhere near his genetic limit. My worry is that you say "steroids" and OP thinks he needs them. His last post is exhibit 1.
OP - you can grow a heck of a lot without them
0 -
Generally speaking I think you're not far off as is and the issue could be one of patience/perception.
Basically the things I would be looking at if you were my client would be as follows:
a) Programming. Within this I'd like to see total training volume across the week and see that you're getting stronger in the core movements. I'd like to see at least 2/week frequency on each body-part so that's either a full body program, an upper/lower done 4/week, or some hybrid approach. You're already doing most of this - but it's possible that you need additional training volume.
b) Calorie and protein intake. I wouldn't advise bulking based on the information you provided. I would keep your intake either at a slight deficit or at maintenance. I would probably push your protein intake to the high end of generally accepted ranges for resistance trained athletes.
There's a large variance in individual response to training and it's likely genetic. There's also a fair amount of difference between volume needs and how well you can recover from a given amount of volume.
It's possible that you need additional training volume but I wouldn't do this by changing rep ranges in the main lifts significantly because that's not likely to produce as good of results with strength accumulation.
For hypertrophy I'd likely prefer you to keep at least some low rep range work to drive strength adaptations and you could either get fancy with it by training in multiple rep ranges across the week or keep it simple by just adding in some accessory work to achieve higher training volumes per muscle group.
The latter is simpler for someone who doesn't nerd out on programming.
Cliffs: You MIGHT just need to wait longer. You MIGHT benefit by adding some accessory volume. Provided you are recovering from training and you are still able to make progress on the main lifts, it's probably the right idea. You MIGHT need to address this through nutrient mediated means.
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