To build muscle how much weight do I have to be lifting?

2

Replies

  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    It all starts with your goals.
    If you want hypertrophy then pick a hypertrophy routine, if you want strength pick a strength routine. But of course neither is all one or the other.

    But I agree with @sunnybeaches105 - your goal should be to build a strength base first. If you are consistently adding weight to the bar then it's working.

    Personally I think "where am I going wrong" is expecting rapid results. Unless you are young, gifted or taking naughty supplements that's not really how it works. You also don't have a low BF percentage so any growth is going to be hard to see. When you are leaner small amounts of muscle growth are far more apparent.

    Based on your pictures you definitely shouldn't go for a calorie surplus unless power and maximum amount of muscle built are absolute and only priorities. From on your comments that's not the case.

    Curious how common are these naughty supplements? Is everyone in the gym taking them? I have no intention of doing so, I've got a dodgy ticker and it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do, I won't even take a pre workout containing caffeine as it doesn't agree with the old ticker.

    Personally never been in the slightest interest in taking them so it's not something I have experience of.
    The problem an be that the use of them can skew advice and people's perception of what is possible/normal/achievable.
    The old fashioned "dirty bulk" came in to allow steroid users to make maximum gains in minimum time for example.
  • jessef593
    jessef593 Posts: 2,272 Member
    Weight lifted is only relative to you. If you're at maintenance your muscle built will be minimal. Even at a surplus the most you can hope for is .5lbs of muscle per week. Aim for a 250 calorie a day surplus to minimize fat. And check back in in 3-6 months
  • rileyes
    rileyes Posts: 1,406 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    To be honest I am not sure where I am going wrong, yes I shouldn't compare myself to others but its so obvious that I am doing something wrong. How much weight do I have to be lifting to build muscle?

    As I have said before I started lifting in January and also my diet, lost 60lbs or so but being on a diet I only got so far before I plateaued. So start of the summer I stopped cutting and went to maintenance. The strength definitely went up but sadly no muscle built.

    An example of what I am lifting at the moment is

    OHP = 100LBS X 5 REPS X 3 SETS
    BP = 120LBS X 5 X 3
    SQUAT = 185LBS X 5 X 3
    DL = 185LBS X 5 X 3

    Once I complete a set I add weight the next time so I keep increasing my weights. What I'm doing at the moment isn't working,

    I work out 5 times per week and below is todays workout just so you know what I'm doing.

    Barbell Squat 5 x 8
    Lunges 5 x 3
    Standing Calf Raise
    Ab circuit: Sit up, Leg Raise, Leg Pull In

    And here is me this morning, Not much to show after almost 9 months lifting. http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0



    You may see better growth with more repetitions per set or more sets (volume). Taking a longer rest period between sets may be necessary to get those extra reps.

    I might try the following at a heavy weight you can manage:
    • superset your barbell squats with box jumps (body weight or vested) 4 sets of 10 reps
    • Add weights (farmer's carries, overheads...) to your lunges 4x10 (each side)
    • Standing calf raises while waiting for your microwave, while filling your water bottle...
    • Plank, hanging leg raise, rotations and kettlebell swings (core)

    The core work can be added to your lunges for a good circuit. The supersets and circuits may help the cut.
  • dave_in_ni
    dave_in_ni Posts: 533 Member
    edited September 2016
    Here is something that baffles me. No point starting another thread so will post in here. I came across this on a friends facebook.

    This guy went on a cut same time as me, I lost more weight but he looks slimmer, I was also working out 5-6 times per week, this guy 3 times.

    http://imgur.com/a/65iTi he started at 15 stone 5 lbs, I started at 16 stone 2 lbs
    http://imgur.com/a/txijF He is now 13 stone 6 lbs, I am 12 stone 4 lbs

    How does this happen? This isn't the first time I've seen similar, fat overweight guys who convert the fat to muscle where as I just got smaller, built no muscle and have more or less the same build.

    If you compare my pic now http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0 to this guy, he looks slimmer than me and I am 16 lbs ligher than him.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    Here is something that baffles me. No point starting another thread so will post in here. I came across this on a friends facebook.

    This guy went on a cut same time as me, I lost more weight but he looks slimmer, I was also working out 5-6 times per week, this guy 3 times.

    http://imgur.com/a/65iTi he started at 15 stone 5 lbs, I started at 16 stone 2 lbs
    http://imgur.com/a/txijF He is now 13 stone 6 lbs, I am 12 stone 4 lbs

    How does this happen? This isn't the first time I've seen similar, fat overweight guys who convert the fat to muscle where as I just got smaller, built no muscle and have more or less the same build.

    If you compare my pic now http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0 to this guy, he looks slimmer than me and I am 16 lbs ligher than him.

    Comparison is the thief of joy.

    That being said, why not ask him about his routine and nutrition. If you're not getting results it's probably because you're not consistent in one or both.

    That being said, you also need to make sure your expectations are reasonable?
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    edited September 2016
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    Here is something that baffles me. No point starting another thread so will post in here. I came across this on a friends facebook.

    This guy went on a cut same time as me, I lost more weight but he looks slimmer, I was also working out 5-6 times per week, this guy 3 times.

    http://imgur.com/a/65iTi he started at 15 stone 5 lbs, I started at 16 stone 2 lbs
    http://imgur.com/a/txijF He is now 13 stone 6 lbs, I am 12 stone 4 lbs

    How does this happen? This isn't the first time I've seen similar, fat overweight guys who convert the fat to muscle where as I just got smaller, built no muscle and have more or less the same build.

    If you compare my pic now http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0 to this guy, he looks slimmer than me and I am 16 lbs ligher than him.

    a) Superior genetics.

    b) Superior training routine.

    c) Superior nutrition.

    If he's on a well-designed workout program and you're spending your time in the gym doing random exercises and a nonsensical bodypart split, it's not at all inconceivable that he could have far better results. It's not how often you to go the gym or how long you spend in there; it's what you do while you're in there. That's why it's not a good idea for most people to design their own workout routines - because they don't have the faintest idea of what they're doing or why they're doing it (or why they should/shouldn't be doing what they're doing).

    Also, you apparently cut at a very steep deficit, so there's a chance that you lost a lot more lean body mass than somebody cutting at a more reasonable deficit.
  • dave_in_ni
    dave_in_ni Posts: 533 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    Here is something that baffles me. No point starting another thread so will post in here. I came across this on a friends facebook.

    This guy went on a cut same time as me, I lost more weight but he looks slimmer, I was also working out 5-6 times per week, this guy 3 times.

    http://imgur.com/a/65iTi he started at 15 stone 5 lbs, I started at 16 stone 2 lbs
    http://imgur.com/a/txijF He is now 13 stone 6 lbs, I am 12 stone 4 lbs

    How does this happen? This isn't the first time I've seen similar, fat overweight guys who convert the fat to muscle where as I just got smaller, built no muscle and have more or less the same build.

    If you compare my pic now http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0 to this guy, he looks slimmer than me and I am 16 lbs ligher than him.

    a) Superior genetics.

    b) Superior training routine.

    c) Superior nutrition.

    If he's on a well-designed workout program and you're spending your time in the gym doing random exercises and a nonsensical bodypart split, it's not at all inconceivable that he could have far better results. It's not how often you to go the gym or how long you spend in there; it's what you do while you're in there. That's why it's not a good idea for most people to design their own workout routines - because they don't have the faintest idea of what they're doing or why they're doing it (or why they should/shouldn't be doing what they're doing).

    Also, you apparently cut at a very steep deficit, so there's a chance that you lost a lot more lean body mass than somebody cutting at a more reasonable deficit.


    Sorry but I've always followed a program, bigger leaner stronger by Mike Matthews, I was also doing strong lifts at a time as well.

    Genetics may well play a part, my father is lighter than me and still over weight. At my lightest I was 10.5 stone when I was 19, would you believe I was still fat so I don't believe more cutting as suggested will help my problem, though in saying that I started cutting again this week.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    Here is something that baffles me. No point starting another thread so will post in here. I came across this on a friends facebook.

    This guy went on a cut same time as me, I lost more weight but he looks slimmer, I was also working out 5-6 times per week, this guy 3 times.

    http://imgur.com/a/65iTi he started at 15 stone 5 lbs, I started at 16 stone 2 lbs
    http://imgur.com/a/txijF He is now 13 stone 6 lbs, I am 12 stone 4 lbs

    How does this happen? This isn't the first time I've seen similar, fat overweight guys who convert the fat to muscle where as I just got smaller, built no muscle and have more or less the same build.

    If you compare my pic now http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0 to this guy, he looks slimmer than me and I am 16 lbs ligher than him.

    a) Superior genetics.

    b) Superior training routine.

    c) Superior nutrition.

    If he's on a well-designed workout program and you're spending your time in the gym doing random exercises and a nonsensical bodypart split, it's not at all inconceivable that he could have far better results. It's not how often you to go the gym or how long you spend in there; it's what you do while you're in there. That's why it's not a good idea for most people to design their own workout routines - because they don't have the faintest idea of what they're doing or why they're doing it (or why they should/shouldn't be doing what they're doing).

    Also, you apparently cut at a very steep deficit, so there's a chance that you lost a lot more lean body mass than somebody cutting at a more reasonable deficit.


    Sorry but I've always followed a program, bigger leaner stronger by Mike Matthews, I was also doing strong lifts at a time as well.

    Genetics may well play a part, my father is lighter than me and still over weight. At my lightest I was 10.5 stone when I was 19, would you believe I was still fat so I don't believe more cutting as suggested will help my problem, though in saying that I started cutting again this week.

    didn't you cut with a massive deficit last time? are you doing that again?
  • dave_in_ni
    dave_in_ni Posts: 533 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    Here is something that baffles me. No point starting another thread so will post in here. I came across this on a friends facebook.

    This guy went on a cut same time as me, I lost more weight but he looks slimmer, I was also working out 5-6 times per week, this guy 3 times.

    http://imgur.com/a/65iTi he started at 15 stone 5 lbs, I started at 16 stone 2 lbs
    http://imgur.com/a/txijF He is now 13 stone 6 lbs, I am 12 stone 4 lbs

    How does this happen? This isn't the first time I've seen similar, fat overweight guys who convert the fat to muscle where as I just got smaller, built no muscle and have more or less the same build.

    If you compare my pic now http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0 to this guy, he looks slimmer than me and I am 16 lbs ligher than him.

    a) Superior genetics.

    b) Superior training routine.

    c) Superior nutrition.

    If he's on a well-designed workout program and you're spending your time in the gym doing random exercises and a nonsensical bodypart split, it's not at all inconceivable that he could have far better results. It's not how often you to go the gym or how long you spend in there; it's what you do while you're in there. That's why it's not a good idea for most people to design their own workout routines - because they don't have the faintest idea of what they're doing or why they're doing it (or why they should/shouldn't be doing what they're doing).

    Also, you apparently cut at a very steep deficit, so there's a chance that you lost a lot more lean body mass than somebody cutting at a more reasonable deficit.


    Sorry but I've always followed a program, bigger leaner stronger by Mike Matthews, I was also doing strong lifts at a time as well.

    Genetics may well play a part, my father is lighter than me and still over weight. At my lightest I was 10.5 stone when I was 19, would you believe I was still fat so I don't believe more cutting as suggested will help my problem, though in saying that I started cutting again this week.

    didn't you cut with a massive deficit last time? are you doing that again?
    1500 per day roughly
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    Here is something that baffles me. No point starting another thread so will post in here. I came across this on a friends facebook.

    This guy went on a cut same time as me, I lost more weight but he looks slimmer, I was also working out 5-6 times per week, this guy 3 times.

    http://imgur.com/a/65iTi he started at 15 stone 5 lbs, I started at 16 stone 2 lbs
    http://imgur.com/a/txijF He is now 13 stone 6 lbs, I am 12 stone 4 lbs

    How does this happen? This isn't the first time I've seen similar, fat overweight guys who convert the fat to muscle where as I just got smaller, built no muscle and have more or less the same build.

    If you compare my pic now http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0 to this guy, he looks slimmer than me and I am 16 lbs ligher than him.

    I think i mentioned this in my other post, but... you're lifting with the wrong frequency, rep ranges, and volume. You're lifting too often per week which doesn't allow for proper adaptations to be made. You're eating a poor number of calories. You're older and have less testosterone. etc. etc. etc.

    I could go on.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    Here is something that baffles me. No point starting another thread so will post in here. I came across this on a friends facebook.

    This guy went on a cut same time as me, I lost more weight but he looks slimmer, I was also working out 5-6 times per week, this guy 3 times.

    http://imgur.com/a/65iTi he started at 15 stone 5 lbs, I started at 16 stone 2 lbs
    http://imgur.com/a/txijF He is now 13 stone 6 lbs, I am 12 stone 4 lbs

    How does this happen? This isn't the first time I've seen similar, fat overweight guys who convert the fat to muscle where as I just got smaller, built no muscle and have more or less the same build.

    If you compare my pic now http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0 to this guy, he looks slimmer than me and I am 16 lbs ligher than him.

    a) Superior genetics.

    b) Superior training routine.

    c) Superior nutrition.

    If he's on a well-designed workout program and you're spending your time in the gym doing random exercises and a nonsensical bodypart split, it's not at all inconceivable that he could have far better results. It's not how often you to go the gym or how long you spend in there; it's what you do while you're in there. That's why it's not a good idea for most people to design their own workout routines - because they don't have the faintest idea of what they're doing or why they're doing it (or why they should/shouldn't be doing what they're doing).

    Also, you apparently cut at a very steep deficit, so there's a chance that you lost a lot more lean body mass than somebody cutting at a more reasonable deficit.


    Sorry but I've always followed a program, bigger leaner stronger by Mike Matthews, I was also doing strong lifts at a time as well.

    Genetics may well play a part, my father is lighter than me and still over weight. At my lightest I was 10.5 stone when I was 19, would you believe I was still fat so I don't believe more cutting as suggested will help my problem, though in saying that I started cutting again this week.

    didn't you cut with a massive deficit last time? are you doing that again?
    1500 per day roughly

    and you realise that the body can only metabolize a certain amount of fat, after which it uses muscle, so you're encouraging your body to burn muscle if you cut so steeply... so any gains you may have made are lost as soon as you cut.

    a deficit of 250-500 cals per day is sufficient.
  • dave_in_ni
    dave_in_ni Posts: 533 Member
    If you look at my weight loss scale it will show I'm at maintaining all summer and what happened my build? Damn all, no muscle built. I'm not convinced weight loss is the way to go, I think I need some muscle on my frame first and the only way to do that it seems is a slight surplus
  • LazSommer
    LazSommer Posts: 1,851 Member
    CUT TO SPOOKY SKELETON AND THEN BUILD UP

    Dude it's been hashed out. Your training and cut were bad. Either gain some weight for some muscle or continue the terrible forced march you started and get down to like 12% BF and slowly build up (it's always slow bud). You have conflicting goals and they don't mix in the extremes you want.
  • pdm3547
    pdm3547 Posts: 1,057 Member
    and you realise that the body can only metabolize a certain amount of fat, after which it uses muscle, so you're encouraging your body to burn muscle if you cut so steeply... so any gains you may have made are lost as soon as you cut.

    a deficit of 250-500 cals per day is sufficient.

    @TavistockToad

    (Genuinely) interested in learning a bit more about this. Can you point me in the direction of some sources.

    Thx
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    edited September 2016
    pdm3547 wrote: »
    and you realise that the body can only metabolize a certain amount of fat, after which it uses muscle, so you're encouraging your body to burn muscle if you cut so steeply... so any gains you may have made are lost as soon as you cut.

    a deficit of 250-500 cals per day is sufficient.

    @TavistockToad

    (Genuinely) interested in learning a bit more about this. Can you point me in the direction of some sources.

    Thx

    I don't have any research papers or anything, no.

    But if someone on MFP said it, it must be true.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    pdm3547 wrote: »
    and you realise that the body can only metabolize a certain amount of fat, after which it uses muscle, so you're encouraging your body to burn muscle if you cut so steeply... so any gains you may have made are lost as soon as you cut.

    a deficit of 250-500 cals per day is sufficient.

    @TavistockToad

    (Genuinely) interested in learning a bit more about this. Can you point me in the direction of some sources.

    Thx

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15615615
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    SideSteel wrote: »
    pdm3547 wrote: »
    and you realise that the body can only metabolize a certain amount of fat, after which it uses muscle, so you're encouraging your body to burn muscle if you cut so steeply... so any gains you may have made are lost as soon as you cut.

    a deficit of 250-500 cals per day is sufficient.

    @TavistockToad

    (Genuinely) interested in learning a bit more about this. Can you point me in the direction of some sources.

    Thx

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15615615

    :flowerforyou:
  • jessef593
    jessef593 Posts: 2,272 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    Here is something that baffles me. No point starting another thread so will post in here. I came across this on a friends facebook.

    This guy went on a cut same time as me, I lost more weight but he looks slimmer, I was also working out 5-6 times per week, this guy 3 times.

    http://imgur.com/a/65iTi he started at 15 stone 5 lbs, I started at 16 stone 2 lbs
    http://imgur.com/a/txijF He is now 13 stone 6 lbs, I am 12 stone 4 lbs

    How does this happen? This isn't the first time I've seen similar, fat overweight guys who convert the fat to muscle where as I just got smaller, built no muscle and have more or less the same build.

    If you compare my pic now http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0 to this guy, he looks slimmer than me and I am 16 lbs ligher than him.

    a) Superior genetics.

    b) Superior training routine.

    c) Superior nutrition.

    If he's on a well-designed workout program and you're spending your time in the gym doing random exercises and a nonsensical bodypart split, it's not at all inconceivable that he could have far better results. It's not how often you to go the gym or how long you spend in there; it's what you do while you're in there. That's why it's not a good idea for most people to design their own workout routines - because they don't have the faintest idea of what they're doing or why they're doing it (or why they should/shouldn't be doing what they're doing).

    Also, you apparently cut at a very steep deficit, so there's a chance that you lost a lot more lean body mass than somebody cutting at a more reasonable deficit.


    Sorry but I've always followed a program, bigger leaner stronger by Mike Matthews, I was also doing strong lifts at a time as well.

    Genetics may well play a part, my father is lighter than me and still over weight. At my lightest I was 10.5 stone when I was 19, would you believe I was still fat so I don't believe more cutting as suggested will help my problem, though in saying that I started cutting again this week.

    didn't you cut with a massive deficit last time? are you doing that again?
    1500 per day roughly

    That's why. You should never be that low in a cut. People prepping for shows getting down to 5% body fat never even cut that much. Did you ever stop to think that this guy had already had sufficient muscle mass built under his body fat? He may have been building for a bit then decided to cut or just simply had more muscle and has a better frame/genetics. If you want muscle. Suck it up, go into a surplus, get onto a hypertrophy over strength lifting program stick to it, lift with intensity but also intelligence. Eat nutritionally sense food, chicken, wild rice, nut butters, coconut oil, fruit, sweet potatoes, quinoa, lean steaks, spinach, oatmeal, whole fat milk, the list goes on. We ALL hate adding extra fat during a bulk, but it's a nescessary sacrifice to achieve a better physique. I've been exactly where you are. I started at 210, cut down to 153. Maintained a deficit for 4 months, built nothing, thought I could build and cut in succession. You can't. It's one or another.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    hamlet1222 wrote: »
    Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.

    You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:

    1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
    2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
    3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.


    I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.

    what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....
  • sunnybeaches105
    sunnybeaches105 Posts: 2,831 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    If you look at my weight loss scale it will show I'm at maintaining all summer and what happened my build? Damn all, no muscle built. I'm not convinced weight loss is the way to go, I think I need some muscle on my frame first and the only way to do that it seems is a slight surplus

    Then recomp, but as someone else who could be described as "not genetically gifted," and I think I said this before, but you are going to drive yourself batty and go nowhere unless you set a goal, pick a plan, and stick with it for months if not years. I've gained maybe 13-14 pounds of muscle in the last three years on s recomp and I've busted my *kitten* for every pound. You have to plan, stick with that plan, and work hard. Don't expect this to be easy and don't compare yourself to others unless you're willing to be frustrated.
  • dave_in_ni
    dave_in_ni Posts: 533 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    hamlet1222 wrote: »
    Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.

    You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:

    1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
    2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
    3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.


    I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.

    what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....

    It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    hamlet1222 wrote: »
    Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.

    You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:

    1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
    2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
    3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.


    I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.

    what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....

    It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.

    No, but you can lose fat without destroying what muscle you have if you actually take notice of the advice you've been given!
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    hamlet1222 wrote: »
    Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.

    You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:

    1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
    2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
    3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.


    I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.

    what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....

    It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.

    No, but you can lose fat without destroying what muscle you have if you actually take notice of the advice you've been given!

    I agree. re-read the thread, you've been given excellent advice.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    hamlet1222 wrote: »
    Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.

    You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:

    1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
    2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
    3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.


    I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.

    what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....

    It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.

    ideally, you want to be in the 10-14% range prior to running a bulk. I would suggest keep eating in a small deficit of 250 calories a day, keep your protein at about .8 grams per pound of body weight; fats at .45, and fill in rest with carbs/as needed.

    I would also get on a structured lifting program that has progressive overload built into it. Once you hit 15% body fat you could run a recomp ...or go for a lower body fat and then bulk.

    The problem with bulking at 20% is that most of your gains are going to be fat and not muscle.
  • dave_in_ni
    dave_in_ni Posts: 533 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    hamlet1222 wrote: »
    Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.

    You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:

    1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
    2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
    3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.


    I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.

    what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....

    It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.

    ideally, you want to be in the 10-14% range prior to running a bulk. I would suggest keep eating in a small deficit of 250 calories a day, keep your protein at about .8 grams per pound of body weight; fats at .45, and fill in rest with carbs/as needed.

    I would also get on a structured lifting program that has progressive overload built into it. Once you hit 15% body fat you could run a recomp ...or go for a lower body fat and then bulk.

    The problem with bulking at 20% is that most of your gains are going to be fat and not muscle.

    Right so 250 below maintenance? My maintenance is 2060 so that's 1810 per day. The cut is gonna take a hell of a lot longer, the main reason I went 1500 is speed.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    hamlet1222 wrote: »
    Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.

    You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:

    1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
    2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
    3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.


    I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.

    what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....

    It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.

    ideally, you want to be in the 10-14% range prior to running a bulk. I would suggest keep eating in a small deficit of 250 calories a day, keep your protein at about .8 grams per pound of body weight; fats at .45, and fill in rest with carbs/as needed.

    I would also get on a structured lifting program that has progressive overload built into it. Once you hit 15% body fat you could run a recomp ...or go for a lower body fat and then bulk.

    The problem with bulking at 20% is that most of your gains are going to be fat and not muscle.

    Right so 250 below maintenance? My maintenance is 2060 so that's 1810 per day. The cut is gonna take a hell of a lot longer, the main reason I went 1500 is speed.

    You can't get the results you want quickly. End of story....
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    hamlet1222 wrote: »
    Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.

    You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:

    1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
    2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
    3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.


    I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.

    what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....

    It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.

    ideally, you want to be in the 10-14% range prior to running a bulk. I would suggest keep eating in a small deficit of 250 calories a day, keep your protein at about .8 grams per pound of body weight; fats at .45, and fill in rest with carbs/as needed.

    I would also get on a structured lifting program that has progressive overload built into it. Once you hit 15% body fat you could run a recomp ...or go for a lower body fat and then bulk.

    The problem with bulking at 20% is that most of your gains are going to be fat and not muscle.

    Right so 250 below maintenance? My maintenance is 2060 so that's 1810 per day. The cut is gonna take a hell of a lot longer, the main reason I went 1500 is speed.

    and you probably lost a lot of muscle...what I am proposing is maintain as much mass as possible and get to a leaner body fat % and then run a bulk or recomp ...yes, it is going to take time, I would guess about four more months maybe six ...but there is no magical wand to wave...you did not get to your current state over-night and you cannot get out of it over-night...that is the truth ...we all have to start somewhere...
  • dave_in_ni
    dave_in_ni Posts: 533 Member
    edited September 2016
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    hamlet1222 wrote: »
    Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.

    You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:

    1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
    2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
    3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.


    I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.

    what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....

    It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.

    ideally, you want to be in the 10-14% range prior to running a bulk. I would suggest keep eating in a small deficit of 250 calories a day, keep your protein at about .8 grams per pound of body weight; fats at .45, and fill in rest with carbs/as needed.

    I would also get on a structured lifting program that has progressive overload built into it. Once you hit 15% body fat you could run a recomp ...or go for a lower body fat and then bulk.

    The problem with bulking at 20% is that most of your gains are going to be fat and not muscle.

    Right so 250 below maintenance? My maintenance is 2060 so that's 1810 per day. The cut is gonna take a hell of a lot longer, the main reason I went 1500 is speed.

    and you probably lost a lot of muscle...what I am proposing is maintain as much mass as possible and get to a leaner body fat % and then run a bulk or recomp ...yes, it is going to take time, I would guess about four more months maybe six ...but there is no magical wand to wave...you did not get to your current state over-night and you cannot get out of it over-night...that is the truth ...we all have to start somewhere...

    Where does this leave my lifting then? At the moment I am pi$$ing in the wind wasting my time as there won't be any gains and hasn't been since I started.
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    dave_in_ni wrote: »
    hamlet1222 wrote: »
    Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.

    You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:

    1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
    2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
    3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.


    I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.

    what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....

    It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.

    ideally, you want to be in the 10-14% range prior to running a bulk. I would suggest keep eating in a small deficit of 250 calories a day, keep your protein at about .8 grams per pound of body weight; fats at .45, and fill in rest with carbs/as needed.

    I would also get on a structured lifting program that has progressive overload built into it. Once you hit 15% body fat you could run a recomp ...or go for a lower body fat and then bulk.

    The problem with bulking at 20% is that most of your gains are going to be fat and not muscle.

    Right so 250 below maintenance? My maintenance is 2060 so that's 1810 per day. The cut is gonna take a hell of a lot longer, the main reason I went 1500 is speed.

    and you probably lost a lot of muscle...what I am proposing is maintain as much mass as possible and get to a leaner body fat % and then run a bulk or recomp ...yes, it is going to take time, I would guess about four more months maybe six ...but there is no magical wand to wave...you did not get to your current state over-night and you cannot get out of it over-night...that is the truth ...we all have to start somewhere...

    Where does this leave my lifting then? At the moment I am pi$$ing in the wind wasting my time as there won't be any gains and hasn't been since I started.

    I cannot stress this enough.


    You have two options.

    1.) Lose the fat and RETAIN as much muscle as you can
    2.) Gain new muscle and fat


    You want to lose fat right now, so you will want to take option 1.

    To RETAIN muscle mass you have to:
    1.) Eat a SMALL/MODERATE calorie deficit
    2.) Consistently strength train/resistance train
    3.) Consume adequate protein (.8-1.2g per pound LBM)