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Are low-carb diets unhealthy? - Dr. T. Colin Campbell

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  • RuNaRoUnDaFiEld
    RuNaRoUnDaFiEld Posts: 5,864 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Who knows.. But i have been told over and over on here to take anything the daily mail publishes with a pinch of salt, has this advice now changed?

    No, still an awful excuse for journalism
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    Campbell's work is actually interesting and I'm in the minority of internet/MFP commenters in not thinking it's totally put to bed by Denise Minger's analysis, I guess (I don't think she does either, if I'm reading the general trend and tone of her latest stuff correctly). I read (kind of skimmed, though) the book being discussed in the Mail article (it's super short, one of those Kindle things) -- haven't read the Mail article, because as I've said elsewhere, the Daily Mail is a terrible source, glad a lot of people who didn't seem to think that was the case elsewhere have come around! -- as well as his new book Whole, which I actually liked. Re The China Study and Campbell's work in general, the more controversial bit is about protein, and I'd like a debate on that, but the people who seem to agree with him don't seem interested in a debate on that topic. (I am a sucker for podcasts with food/nutrition discussions too, including by people I don't agree with, so have given both the plant based types and the lower carb types some listens.)

    Anyway, I don't eat as Campbell would have me eat, and I am not convinced there's a huge benefit from doing so if one has no health issues (although I'm not convinced there's not), but I do believe it's generally healthier than a low vegetable, high sat fat, high meat diet. (Also than a high refined carb/ultra processed diet, which will typically contain a lot of fat too.) Low carb diets can be quite variable, though.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    AnvilHead wrote: »
    Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
    I seem to remember that you've posted several times in the pants dismissing Campbell's work. Perhaps I've remembered wrong.
    Again, nothing in this thread has anything to do with my opinion, feelings or beliefs. Simply offering it up as a topic for discussion in the spirit and context of the Debate forum.

    Oh ok. You posted when i was writing my above reply. I'll move on now :smiley:
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Anyway, I don't eat as Campbell would have me eat, and I am not convinced there's a huge benefit from doing so if one has no health issues (although I'm not convinced there's not), but I do believe it's generally healthier than a low vegetable, high sat fat, high meat diet. (Also than a high refined carb/ultra processed diet, which will typically contain a lot of fat too.) Low carb diets can be quite variable, though.
    Indeed. There are a plethora of foods, macro compositions and diet preferences which fall under the "low carb" umbrella.
  • Sloth2016
    Sloth2016 Posts: 846 Member
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    But don't omnivores have a significantly higher cluster of cardiovascular risk factors compared with vegetarians, including increased body mass index, waist to hip ratio, blood pressure, plasma total cholesterol (TC), triacylglycerol and LDL-C levels, serum lipoprotein(a) concentration, plasma factor VII activity, ratios of TC/HDL-C, LDL-C/HDL-C and TAG/HDL-C, and serum ferritin levels?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21204526

  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
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    Depends on overall diet though. There are healthy omnivores and unhealthy vegetarians.

    BTW- why dr oz as your profile photo?
  • RoxieDawn
    RoxieDawn Posts: 15,488 Member
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    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »
    It seems everything can lead to heart disease and cancer. What else is new?


    :):) ^^^ this.

    Everything in some shape form or fashion causes something or is a precursor to something or something else.
  • Sloth2016
    Sloth2016 Posts: 846 Member
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    singingflutelady wrote: »
    Depends on overall diet though. There are healthy omnivores and unhealthy vegetarians.
    Oh you - there you go being logical again ;)
    BTW- why dr oz as your profile photo?
    Humorous guy in the diet field. Reminds me to keep it lighthearted...
  • tlflag1620
    tlflag1620 Posts: 1,358 Member
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    I commented on this when it was posted in the main forum earlier today, but it seems to be gone now. Basically my thoughts are this - Dr. Campbell has a huge vested interest in promoting his own woo woo ultra low fat, plant based, vegan hokum. Of course he wants people to think LC diets are "dangerous", his livelihood depends upon it. And it's called the daily fail for a reason. That said, in reading the article it is obvious that Dr. Campbell is seriously behind the times wrt nutrition science. We know that dietary cholesterol has an insignificant impact on blood levels of cholesterol and we also know that total cholesterol is rather meaningless in determining CVD risk, yet Dr. Campbell clings to his pet theories on dietary cholesterol being a driving factor in blood cholesterol levels, and still seems to be under the delusion that total cholesterol levels determine... well.... anything. Since he is a doctor, I have to imagine that this is willful ignorance. Anything that contradicts his notions, which are held with religious zeal, will be dismissed. It is rather sad that in 2016, a person who deliberately clings to outdated ideas can be allowed to hold the title "Doctor".

    The article was good for nothing more than a hearty laugh.
  • tlflag1620
    tlflag1620 Posts: 1,358 Member
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    AnvilHead wrote: »
    tlflag1620 wrote: »
    I commented on this when it was posted in the main forum earlier today, but it seems to be gone now. Basically my thoughts are this - Dr. Campbell has a huge vested interest in promoting his own woo woo ultra low fat, plant based, vegan hokum. Of course he wants people to think LC diets are "dangerous", his livelihood depends upon it...

    But didn't Dr. Atkins have a similar vested interest in promoting his diet? And Dr. Barry Sears a similar vested interest in his Zone Diet? And Mercola and Taubes in promoting theirs? Each of them had books/products to sell based upon their interpretations of research, whether it was valid or not.

    And? We should always be suspect of fantastical claims made by people selling things. This is (or should be, lol) obvious. I know you've said you have no dog in this fight and don't care either way if LC is dangerous or not. But unless you have actual peer reviewed studies, preferably RCTs, not weak epidemiological "studies" (that can only show possible correlations) or studies based on food frequency questionnaires (notoriously inaccurate), or worse yet, opinion pieces "published" in the daily fail, then we really can't say whether a given diet is dangerous. From what I've seen, the real studies that have been done on low carb diets show them to be a perfectly viable option in terms of safety and nutrition. If you have found any real research that contradicts that, I'd be happy to look at it.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    I like the Daily Mail, it hones my critical thinking skills. I think this is the point of this OP.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
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    AnvilHead wrote: »
    Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
    I seem to remember that you've posted several times in the pants dismissing Campbell's work. Perhaps I've remembered wrong.
    Again, nothing in this thread has anything to do with my opinion, feelings or beliefs. Simply offering it up as a topic for discussion in the spirit and context of the Debate forum.
    Just a fascinating choice.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
    I seem to remember that you've posted several times in the pants dismissing Campbell's work. Perhaps I've remembered wrong.
    Again, nothing in this thread has anything to do with my opinion, feelings or beliefs. Simply offering it up as a topic for discussion in the spirit and context of the Debate forum.

    Oh ok. You posted when i was writing my above reply. I'll move on now :smiley:

    Ditto.
  • DiamondAge
    DiamondAge Posts: 1 Member
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    The China Study is really interesting. How you interpret it is even more interesting. One indepth analysis is here: https://rawfoodsos.com/2010/09/02/the-china-study-wheat-and-heart-disease-oh-my/
    There is also a fair amount of research that fructose and fructans are implicated in weight gain (but not some of the other starches, like rice). So it gets more subtle than just "carbs". Some carbs may in fact be very bad for you, while others work fine for most of the world.
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
    edited September 2016
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    DiamondAge wrote: »
    The China Study is really interesting. How you interpret it is even more interesting. One indepth analysis is here: https://rawfoodsos.com/2010/09/02/the-china-study-wheat-and-heart-disease-oh-my/
    There is also a fair amount of research that fructose and fructans are implicated in weight gain (but not some of the other starches, like rice). So it gets more subtle than just "carbs". Some carbs may in fact be very bad for you, while others work fine for most of the world.

    http://anthonycolpo.com/the-china-study-more-vegan-nonsense/

    http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Campbell-Masterjohn.html
  • esjones12
    esjones12 Posts: 1,363 Member
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    My boyfriend and I listen to a ton of podcasts by top name health/nutrition and fitness experts, some of which are PHD's in nutritional science (Chris Masterjohn is one name I know off the top of my head), among other highly educated degrees. There is a lot of science that backs up low carb and ketogenic diets. However, most top name experts will fully admit it is not for every person in ever circumstance. Most will educate you on metabolic flexibility.

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